Crafting: Option to turn off +1 Rewards or fix MW turn in to recognize +1 items

2

Comments

  • txfox99
    txfox99 Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    Hello all,
    Here I am trying to gain MW 1 in all my professions to help others and possibly profit off my luck on getting a Forgehammer last year. As LUCK would have it I keep getting the +1 versions of the quest materials. They, as I have discovered (to my horror and dismay) are utterly worthless to me. I hop on to this forum feed for a small ray of light in the growing dimness of the RNG. Lo and behold I see that there is no solution or plan to correct this problem to which most of the posters here have given their insight on. I am not, in any way a programmer or even computer savvy. I am a gamer and wish to enjoy this game to its fullest extend and intention.

    Crafting is a major part of Neverwinter, and this mod has given it new life to crafting but has also murdered our desire to craft. Thanks for that. So .. are there any plans to fix the +1 issue?
    Elowen (CW) Teagan (DC) Aednat (GWF)

    Guild Leader of The Sword Coast Knights

  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    This crafting system has a lot going for it, but issues like this +1 turn-in fiasco are borderline dealbreakers.

    +1 result where normal quality is specified? Please attempt to recoup your losses via the auction house, and if your item is otherwise of low value, please hope that another player is willing to buy it for a steep discount or that they mistake it for the version you can turn in.

    Running a gold deficit? Please spend time and morale to craft ludicrous quantities of useless consumables and blue equipment to feed the VIP vendor, because you can’t play anything like a normal person, defeating enemies and completing quests, and hope to sustain your professions for the long term.

    +1 items with 0 Focus? Failed crafts with 100% Proficiency? What?

    I actually like the new profession system quite a bit, which makes these huge missteps even more frustrating.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • thestia
    thestia Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 296 Arc User

    Ok I'm trying to enter masterwork...you can't its too expensive.

    masterwork 1 in say blacksmithing.
    You need to do 2-3 sets of tasks still.
    The first task is 100+1 admantine ingots. Which is hard enough to do now with the changes. Yet now you will only get an item "well worn hammer" that falls between what you can make now. It doesn't make any sense to even try anymore. Yet you have to do all this to advance to the next level, and then the next, then the next, you'll never make it in time.
    Adamantine cross-pien hammer 360/360
    well worn hammer from 1st set of task 370/370
    Adamantine cross-pien hammer +1 375/375

    Your getting a booby prize for all your work!! For the cost in materials you could have made enough +1 hammers to get you through to learn level 2 tasks. In fact you will still probably need that 5 extra points depending upon the artisan you use.
    Beyond the fact its a super gold sink now!! The commission cost will kill me before I finish the and get the first masterwork done.

    The profession system was suppose to be a hard restart, but it never was because of the masterwork system. The masterwork has not been reset. So the the problems in the main professions system are due to the fact that they didn't want to reset masterwork. It is plainly obvious to me now that the elite masterwork players are the problem with everything in the failure that is the new profession system. Because they didn't want a reset of their tiers or their work...they caused the problem in new system and made it worse.

    Why on earth do you think that the new profession system was supposed to be a "hard restart"? If that was intended, everyone's professions would have been reset to 0 instead of transferring your already acquired level. Mastercrafting is far easier to enter now than it was before, but you do need to understand that it's not for people that don't meet the requirements. Last mod, legendary assets were required to have a chance at being able to compete in the MC market. Even with a Gond, unlocking mastercrafting was a major undertaking. Now, you only need Gond, as it's better than the legendary assets. That artifact can be obtained via the event or even given out for free at simril, both a bound and unbound version.

    Depending on which MC you're working on, the +1 items you make trying to get the regular versions are still useful. If you're doing armorsmithing, you can use the titansteel to make the armor you need to unlock the higher levels of mastercrafting. If you have too many gold ingots +1 from Jewelcrafting, you can sell them, or use them to make your gold coins or gold wire.

    While I do think there should be an exchange system for those +1 items (so they may be more useful in initially unlocking mastercrafting), saying that what you make has no value is pretty far off.

    I have no idea how the "elite masterwork players" are the problem with the new system. The players didn't make the system. We're just adapting to it. I wasn't a mastercrafter last mod, but I can be this mod. The changes made mastercrafting accessible to more of the community than it was before (barring the bugs blocking people from refilling their moral or collecting from their delivery boxes).

    Finally, mastercrafting has ALWAYS been a major investment in AD and frustration. If you only want one or 2 items from it, buy them, don't try and unlock mastercrafting to make them. If you have 20 million to invest, you had a gond artifact previously, or get one in a couple weeks, then it may be for you. Spending that much is what you do when you have everything else, it's like a legendary mount. There are plenty of people playing for quite some time that haven't saved enough for that yet either.
  • naoqueroforum
    naoqueroforum Member Posts: 225 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    Thank you for the feedback. We chose not to require the high-quality results for these quests, so as not to further increase the difficulty of the masterwork quests in comparison with the pre-overhaul difficulty of these quests.

    Unfortunately there is no simple way to allow the quest to take either or a combination of high and normal quality results, as they are discreetly different items on the back end. We do plan to address this issue, however, it will take some time.

    In the meantime, if you do end up with any high-quality results we hope that you can manage to sell these on the auction house for a profit. If you use normal quality materials to make the items, your high-quality chance shouldn't be so high that this creates a serious issue. I apologize for the inconvenience in the meantime.

    Gotta say, this is the best part of the post. Gems like these are also probably the reason why the disagree button was removed. Still, a dev incentive to scam a fellow player with a +1 version of a masterwork quest item seems to fit the LOL button quite well.

    I just can't think of any situation in which you need a +0 version of something and the +1 version also has any use somewhere else. Maybe the dev somehow found a possible case in which that applies (doubt it, but would love to see an example).

    I mean, even for alchemy, the +1 versions of the effervescent potions are pointless since they give the same stats as the +0 ones. At least they aren't entirely useless.

    As for the minted coin +1, I'm sorry for the guy, but I kind of laughed at that. I'm really sorry for you man, I totally know your pain. But the fact that they allow a +1 version of that...
    AD crates don't have a +1 version, instead they double the amount. Wouldn't be bad if that was the case for the minted coins.
  • wraithr32
    wraithr32 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 38 Arc User
    asterdahl said:



    Unfortunately there is no simple way to allow the quest to take either or a combination of high and normal quality results, as they are discreetly different items on the back end. We do plan to address this issue, however, it will take some time.

    Really?? I always find the "or" logic to be helpful here. if "item" or "item+1" then x=x+1

    And +1 items are a LOT cheaper than standard item because no one want or needs them... can't use them to complete quests..

    The amount of gold needed is ridiculous, especially when "pricesless" items sell for silver and you pick up 5-7 copper when killing enemies in end game content
  • mushellka
    mushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    The system is poorly designed, sloppy and bugged.
    Some bugs are just ridiculous, other horrifying ones.

    All the time I am waiting for solving the problem with +1 items made for the masterwork task. It seems to me that it does not exceed the possibility of devs, putting an NPC exchanging this worthless items as items without damn +1.
    But convincing us to cheat other unknowing players is below all criticism !
    I really do not know how to refer to such a dictum.

    And here are the next bugs of this wonderful (as some people say) profession system:

    How is it possible to get item +1 in a situation where the focus is even "below" 0%?



    And Workman's Cordial, which in one situation increases focus, and in the other decreases it : D

    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • mdarkangel#4696
    mdarkangel#4696 Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    > @mushellka said:
    > How is it possible to get item +1 in a situation where the focus is even "below" 0%?

    Required focus for Linseed Oil is 235, so you're not far off. You used high-quality ingredients which add to focus, as much as 20%, which happens behind the scenes.

    The other issue is pure mystery.
    Post edited by mdarkangel#4696 on
  • mushellka
    mushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    Unfortunately, you're wrong.
    In this case, you can see that the focus is 227 therefore BELOW 0% point.
    Even with high-quality ingredients , the focus did not reach the required 1%.
    So...There is no way to create item +1. And yet it worked ...
    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • mdarkangel#4696
    mdarkangel#4696 Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    mushellka said:

    Unfortunately, you're wrong.
    In this case, you can see that the focus is 227 therefore BELOW 0% point.
    Even with high-quality ingredients , the focus did not reach the required 1%.
    So...There is no way to create item +1. And yet it worked ...

    Not entirely wrong, but yes wrong nonetheless.

    High-quality ingredients do indeed help to achieve a high-quality result. However, after re-reading asterdahl's post on the subject this is not supposed to happen until you reach a focus above the minimum required.

    Both of your issues should be reported as bugs.
  • grogthemagnif
    grogthemagnif Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,611 Arc User

    Anyone else note the fact that you created a "newly minted gold coin+1" but it's only worth 50 cp? It's things like this that have made most of the crafting HAMSTER when your lvling. How do you make a gold coin which is like 10k cp but it only is worth 50cp? Kind of like the platinum "junk" items only being worth silver. Someone needs to reevaluate item values methinks.

    Those are properly the gold coin Jim used to fill the basement. :)
    That's a great idea. Have the devs invent a new AI buyer to buy 'for Gold only' all the +1 items players are trying to sell on the AH. Green (Uncommon) +1 items start at 1 Gold, Blue (Rare) +1 Items start at 2 Gold, Purple (Epic) items start at 4 Gold (Newly Minted Gold Coin will be 5 Gold) . . . and the line to sell will be out the Gates of Neverwinter.

    Warning: you will only be allowed to sell 1 stack of +1 items per day.

    This should also solve the 'Karmela effect' (hemorrhaging copious amounts of Gold daily) in professions.

    Second Warning: The cap for Gold is 25,000 Gold (250,000,000 cp), don't sell a 999 stack of +1 items for 1 Gold each to AI if you have 24,990 Gold - the sale price will be 999 Gold (or more) and you will get to keep 10 Gold and the rest vanishes.
  • grogthemagnif
    grogthemagnif Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,611 Arc User

    Anyone else note the fact that you created a "newly minted gold coin+1" but it's only worth 50 cp? It's things like this that have made most of the crafting HAMSTER when your lvling. How do you make a gold coin which is like 10k cp but it only is worth 50cp? Kind of like the platinum "junk" items only being worth silver. Someone needs to reevaluate item values methinks.

    Those are properly the gold coin Jim used to fill the basement. :)
    That's a great idea. Have the devs invent a new AI buyer to buy 'for Gold only' all the +1 items players are trying to sell on the AH. Green (Uncommon) +1 items start at 1 Gold, Blue (Rare) +1 Items start at 2 Gold, Purple (Epic) items start at 4 Gold (Newly Minted Gold Coin will be 5 Gold) . . . and the line to sell will be out the Gates of Neverwinter.

    Warning: you will only be allowed to sell 1 stack of +1 items per day.

    This should also solve the 'Karmela effect' (hemorrhaging copious amounts of Gold daily) in professions.

    Second Warning: The cap for Gold is 25,000 Gold (250,000,000 cp), don't sell a 999 stack of +1 items for 1 Gold each to AI if you have 24,990 Gold - the sale price will be 999 Gold (or more) and you will get to keep 10 Gold and the rest vanishes.
    The cap on Gold has been raised to over 400,000, now it's time to do the same for Guildmarks - so you don't 'have to' go buy stuff when you're near the artificial 30,000 cap, especially when some items are sold for the 30,000 GM cap.
  • feanor70118
    feanor70118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,158 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    Thank you for the feedback. We chose not to require the high-quality results for these quests, so as not to further increase the difficulty of the masterwork quests in comparison with the pre-overhaul difficulty of these quests.

    Unfortunately there is no simple way to allow the quest to take either or a combination of high and normal quality results, as they are discreetly different items on the back end. We do plan to address this issue, however, it will take some time.

    Horsefeathers.

    1) Add a button to turn off the possibility of +1 items at the player's request, or simply rewrite the +! result for anything other than finished products - OTHER THAN those that can be turned in to the artisan - so that the crafter produces two regular items instead of a single +1.
    2) Add an option with the retainer to exchange +1 items for regular ones (plus, to add some fairness, some gold).
    3) All this really requires for a fix is making a list of the currently bugged quests (see below), some cutting and pasting and changing some dialogue with the stronghold artisan. Please stop pretending it's some time-consuming, overwhelming amount of work. It insults our intelligence.
    a) Bugged quests: Every artisan leveling quest requring mastercrafting products. There's your list. See how easy that was?
    i) Make a list of items required in those quests. This will also not take any significant amount of time. Find every line of code relating to the artisan's quests that refers to those items and have it also allow the +1 items.
    b) Changing dialogue (to include an either/or for +1 items) only requires cutting and pasting within those quests.
    c) Any coder familiar with the project should be able to do it in hours.
    asterdahl said:


    In the meantime, if you do end up with any high-quality results we hope that you can manage to sell these on the auction house for a profit. If you use normal quality materials to make the items, your high-quality chance shouldn't be so high that this creates a serious issue. I apologize for the inconvenience in the meantime.

    So "Thoughts and prayers." No, thank you.
  • strathkin
    strathkin Member Posts: 1,285 Arc User
    edited January 2019
    thestia said:

    Perhaps the solution is a vendor that you can swap +1 items for their respective +0 items, rather than trying to work in a solution on the backend.

    Yea one would think Temporary Merchants could offer accepting High Quality +1 Materials &/or Items into perhaps a Normal Quality Item depending on the Merchant. Why wouldn't he accept a High Quality in exchange for a Normal Quality item 1:1 after all. That would likely be the easiest thing to do, and does not require changing back-end. Perhaps something a UI DEV could address simply expanding a few options for trade a Temporary Merchants.

    Maybe our 'CM' can PING the DEVs for an update, once they all back from Holidays early next week. I mean some have added many area's where they get 'hung' up, or what seems like a simple fix offered by @thestia above.

    Perhaps we'll see something earlier in the new year?
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • wynil
    wynil Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    Issue is that outcome of crafting are sure influenced by your artisan quality and tool quality or suplement it is DETERMINED by bloody RNG.

    Developers insist that everything is and always will be determined by RNG..suck it up guys.
  • wynil
    wynil Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    Why we didn't get some REAL crafting instead we got this pseudo crafting gambling system?

    What i mean by REAL crafting is that i actually craft something not choose from predetermined items with predetermined properties. Like starting with selection of basic 3D model and color sheme/texture effects icon then selecting set of properties and amount of those that will eventually calculate the materials and cost of manufacture and would be influenced by quality and level of artisans and would require set or prerequisites met like high quality materials and semiproducts thus production chain..like for example you wouldnt be able to make like ring for example with 2000 Critical Strike if u don't have MW maxed out. but you would be able to make a ring that have 500 critical strike with level 70 skill or 250 power 250 crit combination for eg.
  • strathkin
    strathkin Member Posts: 1,285 Arc User
    edited January 2019
    I've always wondered why Shimmerweave Thread 'High Quality' show 'spark' and does in fact improve Focus Chance; yet strangely it lacks the +1 in the Description for all 'High Quality' materials?

    I'd assume this is still the bug with Shimmerweave Thread:
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1245228/shimmerweave-thread-1-tooltip-incorrect

    Still it keeps the 'high quality' with the 'spark' icon in a separate stack despite the description reading the same; so there is something else in the Meta that differentiates them, aside from just the slightly different prices for Copper of 68 & 69 both have. ;)

    So hense the question: If the descriptions for High Quality or Low Quality are the same, would it accept both for the quest objectives.

    The only challenge would be Auction House would have no easy way to filter, unless it could search this secondary meta that designates 'High Quality' materials.

    @asterdahl
    @nitocris83
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • cdnbison
    cdnbison Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    Thank you for the feedback. We chose not to require the high-quality results for these quests, so as not to further increase the difficulty of the masterwork quests in comparison with the pre-overhaul difficulty of these quests.

    Unfortunately there is no simple way to allow the quest to take either or a combination of high and normal quality results, as they are discreetly different items on the back end. We do plan to address this issue, however, it will take some time.

    In the meantime, if you do end up with any high-quality results we hope that you can manage to sell these on the auction house for a profit. If you use normal quality materials to make the items, your high-quality chance shouldn't be so high that this creates a serious issue. I apologize for the inconvenience in the meantime.

    I'm not going to go through the whole thread to check to see if my points have already been brought up, so forgive any duplication....

    1. Not making the requirements "+1" is good. No issue there, and not the problem users are having.
    2. I won't pretend to understand the coding requirements, however it does create a bit of a problem (see #3).
    3. So, if I create a "Newly 'minted' set of coins +1" - how, exactly, am I suppose to sell those for a profit? The regular version is only good for completing one MW task. That's it. It cannot be used for anything else. A "+1" version that can't be turned in has an effective value approaching zero.

    This is also problematic, as the chances when using a mythic Forgehammer are not trivial, regardless of the ingredient qualities (I am usually in the 30-50% range for MW 1-2 tasks). That's not small, and for quest-related items in the MW chain, not cheap (in both materials and time lost) if I get a "+1" result.

    The best temporary solution I have seen is to setup a vendor in the SH with non "+1" versions of said items. Make the cost be a +1 version of the same. That's it. The tech for item trading is obviously there, as it was done for the Lostmauth set items. I see no reason it couldn't be implemented relatively quickly for MW items.



  • alansweet
    alansweet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 47 Arc User
    Can you just let us know an estimated date when yiu will have this significant defect FIXED?
  • strathkin
    strathkin Member Posts: 1,285 Arc User
    They don't provide patch estimates.
  • feanor70118
    feanor70118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,158 Arc User
    And over in the thread I started on this subject, which is now closed for a reason which I cannot take seriously, they've officially claimed that this is "WAI for now," which is plainly false.

    No amount of player protest ever seems to have an effect, but it's literally been months without a fix and plainly they can't be bothered. I'm too disgusted for words. This kind of thing is why I didn't decide to participate in the mod 16 test.
  • alansweet
    alansweet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 47 Arc User
    Well, when my present VIP expires, I will have to decide what I am going to do.
  • alansweet
    alansweet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 47 Arc User

    And over in the thread I started on this subject, which is now closed for a reason which I cannot take seriously, they've officially claimed that this is "WAI for now," which is plainly false.

    No amount of player protest ever seems to have an effect, but it's literally been months without a fix and plainly they can't be bothered. I'm too disgusted for words. This kind of thing is why I didn't decide to participate in the mod 16 test.

    Obviously, defects found in playtest are disregarded. This and other work shop defects were reported in last playtest and ignored.

  • hav0clol
    hav0clol Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 147 Arc User
    edited January 2019
    Mods decided to close the other thread in bug reports, so here's my post again.

    The thing that bothers me is that it is a very simple fix, if a bit inelegant. Rather than say "craft me one Adamant Trap Door", the Artisan just has to say "craft me one Adamant Trap Door OR one Adamant Trap Door +1", and have the code reflect this!

    It certainly is NOT difficult even if the items are recognised as different in the game code.

    EDIT: cdnbison's solution also works perfectly fine.
  • therealprotex
    therealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 516 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    Thank you for the feedback. We chose not to require the high-quality results for these quests, so as not to further increase the difficulty of the masterwork quests in comparison with the pre-overhaul difficulty of these quests.

    Unfortunately there is no simple way to allow the quest to take either or a combination of high and normal quality results, as they are discreetly different items on the back end. We do plan to address this issue, however, it will take some time.

    In the meantime, if you do end up with any high-quality results we hope that you can manage to sell these on the auction house for a profit. If you use normal quality materials to make the items, your high-quality chance shouldn't be so high that this creates a serious issue. I apologize for the inconvenience in the meantime.

    "Fun" fact: the items you need for masterwork rank 1 are in fact now +1 items! For example, for armoursmithing you'll now need 25 "adamantine plates +1" and 50 "adamantine rings +1". WTF?!?!?!
  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited January 2019



    "Fun" fact: the items you need for masterwork rank 1 are in fact now +1 items! For example, for armoursmithing you'll now need 25 "adamantine plates +1" and 50 "adamantine rings +1". WTF?!?!?!

    It's been that way since Mod 15 launched, and I don't mind that part of it; even with requiring +1 materials, the average crafter without legendary tools is going to get it done very quickly since those items are standard craft, not MW.

    The only issue, IMO, is that +1 results remain unacceptable for turn-in for other quests. Not as much of an issue when you can use guild NPCs (putting aside for the moment the added expense in GMs), but when you have requirements like a Fartouched Orb or a Sphene Necklace (no one in their right mind being willing to purchase your +1 "failures" on the AH), it's kind of a big deal and very disturbing that Cryptic hasn't done a thing about it.

    Players who are newer and/or less flush with AD, GMs, and profession resources are disproportionately punished, here. I happen to have all of the above resources and still don't want to complete some of my remaining MW 4 quests because it's so absurd that I would even have to worry about failing by crafting a high-quality item.



    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • therealprotex
    therealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 516 Arc User
    vorphied said:

    It's been that way since Mod 15 launched, and I don't mind that part of it; even with requiring +1 materials, the average crafter without legendary tools is going to get it done very quickly since those items are standard craft, not MW.

    I just mentioned it, because @asterdahl claimed that they "chose not to require the high-quality results for these quests" and that's a lie.
  • andorrabell
    andorrabell Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 437 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    Thank you for the feedback. We chose not to require the high-quality results for these quests, so as not to further increase the difficulty of the masterwork quests in comparison with the pre-overhaul difficulty of these quests.

    Unfortunately there is no simple way to allow the quest to take either or a combination of high and normal quality results, as they are discreetly different items on the back end. We do plan to address this issue, however, it will take some time.

    In the meantime, if you do end up with any high-quality results we hope that you can manage to sell these on the auction house for a profit. If you use normal quality materials to make the items, your high-quality chance shouldn't be so high that this creates a serious issue. I apologize for the inconvenience in the meantime.

    Um, any update? I'm completely stuck on almost all MW quest lines due to this. Ive made FOUR copies of an unsellable +1 armor item and I refuse to make any more. This was in part a profession expansion, why are professions still broken months later?

  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,470 Arc User
    edited February 2019

    asterdahl said:

    Thank you for the feedback. We chose not to require the high-quality results for these quests, so as not to further increase the difficulty of the masterwork quests in comparison with the pre-overhaul difficulty of these quests.

    Unfortunately there is no simple way to allow the quest to take either or a combination of high and normal quality results, as they are discreetly different items on the back end. We do plan to address this issue, however, it will take some time.

    In the meantime, if you do end up with any high-quality results we hope that you can manage to sell these on the auction house for a profit. If you use normal quality materials to make the items, your high-quality chance shouldn't be so high that this creates a serious issue. I apologize for the inconvenience in the meantime.

    "Fun" fact: the items you need for masterwork rank 1 are in fact now +1 items! For example, for armoursmithing you'll now need 25 "adamantine plates +1" and 50 "adamantine rings +1". WTF?!?!?!
    Making +1 is not hard. There is also a reason why they want +1 for rank 1 in mod 15 because they want you to spend some minimum effort. Otherwise, you can just buy from the retainer using old resource currency. After rank 1, it is a different story.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***