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M15: Scourge Warlock Class Changes

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  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    ghoulz66 said:

    What's the point of allowing the puppet to crit, but making it only 50% severity? Vorpal, dread don't affect it. Highly doubt fey affects it. Just leaves some kind of utility, which probably won't help it much either.

    Why did CW get a huge buff to disintegrate and no bone can be tossed at this class? I don't get it. Nothing really synergizes well for this class.

    Fey affects its somehow, comabat advantage is 10% from the puppet as far as I remember.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User

    ghoulz66 said:

    What's the point of allowing the puppet to crit, but making it only 50% severity? Vorpal, dread don't affect it. Highly doubt fey affects it. Just leaves some kind of utility, which probably won't help it much either.

    Why did CW get a huge buff to disintegrate and no bone can be tossed at this class? I don't get it. Nothing really synergizes well for this class.

    Fey affects its somehow, comabat advantage is 10% from the puppet as far as I remember.
    It does? In what way?
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    ghoulz66 said:

    ghoulz66 said:

    What's the point of allowing the puppet to crit, but making it only 50% severity? Vorpal, dread don't affect it. Highly doubt fey affects it. Just leaves some kind of utility, which probably won't help it much either.

    Why did CW get a huge buff to disintegrate and no bone can be tossed at this class? I don't get it. Nothing really synergizes well for this class.

    Fey affects its somehow, comabat advantage is 10% from the puppet as far as I remember.
    It does? In what way?
    It buffs puppets damage, if I am not completely wrong.
    Deleted all my further posts...here that´s the original post

    -->
    "Puppet get´s buffed by Hollowed ground, AA, benefits from debuffs same as selfbuffs like Dark Revelry
    Damage multiplier seem to work, I did not check ITF (should work).
    Powershare obviously works to some degree -> Annoited Army works, Dark revelry also, did not check other powerbuffs like WoL, BoB, OP's powershare, assumingly they work
    Also not tested stuff like AoC from Paladin.
    Puppet procs Dark Revelry and stacks rampaning madness on you.
    Puppet scales with Power, when your companion dies infight, Wraith claw is cut in half the moment your bonding buff drops of.
    Puppet benefits from Warlocks Curse +20%, benfits from PoP +24% damage, benefits from Feytoucehd proc also +18% (trans), making other enchantmens like Dread obsolete for that build (no synergy with critseverity)
    25% bonus from Hadar grasp works, also on boss dummy in Chult.

    Only points to discus in my eyes are:
    1. Critrate: once active the critrate does not adapt to you critrate when bondings procced, so you have to call the puppet, having bondings buff up, wich will lead to every templock starting as Fury and switch to Damnation, when passing a node having bonding buff up, only to get full benefit from critrate...sounds like a pretty annoying situation to me.
    When your companion dies your puppet stays at 100% critrate.
    -> please make that puppet refresh or adept it's Critstat , same as it does with powerstat.

    2. Critseverity is fix at 50%

    3. Combat Advantage bonus fix at 10%
    In my eyes that puppet is part of your stats and dps, if you improve your char, stacking critseverity same as combat advantage, that should make puppet not drop of but inprove it´s dps.


    To sum it up @balanced#2849

    Find a simple solution to buff overtall-dps by:
    1.simply buffing base damage +10-20% (liek CW) and
    2. buff Killing Flame (x2 til 25% HP, x3 lower 25%)

    Damnation:
    1. Soul Investiture points should not fade away once stacked, same as stay when your puppet dies, the damage loss is to big and the hole tree will simply fail.
    2. Critrate should scale with your stats infight (like powerstat), otherwise it is pretty annyoing to switch between loadout for and back, the moment your bondings procced.
    3. Critseverity same as Combat advantage stats should scale definitely, otherwise the puppet will drop of and the whole attempt to revive Damnation might fail in the end.
    4. Bugs like puppet stay outside the door (we know it since ever) are still an issue, you need to run forward about 60 feet to make your puppet reappear in the boss room by your side.

    -> N° 2 is "fixed" only by a dying puppet, N° 4 is hard to fix, since you can´t release that puppet, and sometimes the room is pretty small, maybe get the puppet reappear in a smaller range 30 feet?
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited October 2018

    ghoulz66 said:

    ghoulz66 said:

    What's the point of allowing the puppet to crit, but making it only 50% severity? Vorpal, dread don't affect it. Highly doubt fey affects it. Just leaves some kind of utility, which probably won't help it much either.

    Why did CW get a huge buff to disintegrate and no bone can be tossed at this class? I don't get it. Nothing really synergizes well for this class.

    Fey affects its somehow, comabat advantage is 10% from the puppet as far as I remember.
    It does? In what way?
    It buffs puppets damage, if I am not completely wrong.
    Deleted all my further posts...here that´s the original post

    -->
    "Puppet get´s buffed by Hollowed ground, AA, benefits from debuffs same as selfbuffs like Dark Revelry
    Damage multiplier seem to work, I did not check ITF (should work).
    Powershare obviously works to some degree -> Annoited Army works, Dark revelry also, did not check other powerbuffs like WoL, BoB, OP's powershare, assumingly they work
    Also not tested stuff like AoC from Paladin.
    Puppet procs Dark Revelry and stacks rampaning madness on you.
    Puppet scales with Power, when your companion dies infight, Wraith claw is cut in half the moment your bonding buff drops of.
    Puppet benefits from Warlocks Curse +20%, benfits from PoP +24% damage, benefits from Feytoucehd proc also +18% (trans), making other enchantmens like Dread obsolete for that build (no synergy with critseverity)
    25% bonus from Hadar grasp works, also on boss dummy in Chult.

    Only points to discus in my eyes are:
    1. Critrate: once active the critrate does not adapt to you critrate when bondings procced, so you have to call the puppet, having bondings buff up, wich will lead to every templock starting as Fury and switch to Damnation, when passing a node having bonding buff up, only to get full benefit from critrate...sounds like a pretty annoying situation to me.
    When your companion dies your puppet stays at 100% critrate.
    -> please make that puppet refresh or adept it's Critstat , same as it does with powerstat.

    2. Critseverity is fix at 50%

    3. Combat Advantage bonus fix at 10%
    In my eyes that puppet is part of your stats and dps, if you improve your char, stacking critseverity same as combat advantage, that should make puppet not drop of but inprove it´s dps.


    To sum it up @balanced#2849

    Find a simple solution to buff overtall-dps by:
    1.simply buffing base damage +10-20% (liek CW) and
    2. buff Killing Flame (x2 til 25% HP, x3 lower 25%)

    Damnation:
    1. Soul Investiture points should not fade away once stacked, same as stay when your puppet dies, the damage loss is to big and the hole tree will simply fail.
    2. Critrate should scale with your stats infight (like powerstat), otherwise it is pretty annyoing to switch between loadout for and back, the moment your bondings procced.
    3. Critseverity same as Combat advantage stats should scale definitely, otherwise the puppet will drop of and the whole attempt to revive Damnation might fail in the end.
    4. Bugs like puppet stay outside the door (we know it since ever) are still an issue, you need to run forward about 60 feet to make your puppet reappear in the boss room by your side.

    -> N° 2 is "fixed" only by a dying puppet, N° 4 is hard to fix, since you can´t release that puppet, and sometimes the room is pretty small, maybe get the puppet reappear in a smaller range 30 feet?
    As far as I remember, the puppet could never scale enough to be viable for the high end endgame dungeons. Well, not counting when it was bugged.

    SW's overall base damage doesn't make up for shortcomings.
    A great many underpowered DoTs with little use or utility.
    Killing Flames is simply inferior to disintegrate.
    The total damage blades can accumulate doesn't compete with burst from other classes, on top of having nothing to really synergize with it. Not to mention other classes do more damage from a one hit burst skill than the total output blades can do.
    Fiery Bolt still not strong enough, needs a lower CD or more damage.

    At-Wills have been left behind by other strikers. An even bigger issue since this class doesn't have the most spammable encounters at it's disposal.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    Puppet get´s buffed by Feytouched, that´s what i saw on preview, the rest is up to anyone else to check.
    I don´t want to invest more time on that topic.
    Going to wait till mod 15 and maybe just skip some mods or the hole game, not sure about it.
  • lordtweety#3604 lordtweety Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    Hi All,

    After @bellkazi had his posts deleted (mine and others too) I lost a lot of interest in this thread, in this forum and in the moderation teams ability to assist the players in getting feedback both to and from the devs. However, I wanted to make one last observation before this goes live.

    After checking numbers this mod is an overall nerf to the SW class. Mostly due to the loss of procs from the reduced ticks of DT and HG and of course, the AoC nerf. Given that the majority of the SWs powers are DOTs and AoC no longer procs off them, this is a huge loss. For example, even though DT has had a 20% base damage increase, the reduced ticks mean you lose much more than the 20% increase. Creeping Death anyone?

    Fiery Bolt has been buffed but needs more. KF has been buffed (an average increase of 7.8% or so) but in all honesty, you will only see it on large boss fights, ie where the boss has a very large HP pool.

    The animations are better but don't make up for the other nerfs and realistically these are quality of life improvements rather than class buffs. I could continue without them, making little difference to my overall DPS.

    So overall I am saddened and disappointed at the lack of care and time being given to the SW and it's very lackluster performance. As we have seen in other threads and from feedback in this thread, it doesn't take much to give the class a needed boost.

    I am still hopeful for more positive changes but those hopes are not high.

    Here's to the future.
    Main: Angels Scar
    Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    One last comment.
    From my PoV, they can pretty much close this thread, ot delete it in a hole.
    There is no feedback or communication on devs side and there is not much to pull out of the thread, since a lot of posts got deleted by player, wich is the only way to handle the actual situation.
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    Yep seems like they dont give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about us :/
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    I can understand that their workload is probably tremendous with all of the things they are trying to accomplish with Mod 15, but it wouldn't be as frustrating if their triage practice didn't extend to the customer experience side of things.

    Acknowledgement can be given without making specific promises or implying timelines for changes. What the players see is that the class feedback threads with the most traffic (and complaints) got nods and even some actual tweaks based on player feedback while the SW thread generated virtually no response of any kind aside from mild admonishment from community management not to be uncivil while continuing to complain about the glaring issues with the SW changes and about the lack of developer engagement.

    Customer experience stats represent millions of dollars of revenue each year in my line of business, so I struggle to understand how the SW feedback thread appears to have fallen so deeply under the radar that it, in the end, it was acknowledged in no significant way by developers and drew attention only for posters getting angry and rude. I do not get it.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    Even with the owlbear I didn't come close to competing with a GWF. These tiny buffs don't even come close to competing with the old owlbear meta.
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    ghoulz66 said:

    Even with the owlbear I didn't come close to competing with a GWF. These tiny buffs don't even come close to competing with the old owlbear meta.

    The part that's even harder to understand is where the buffs are frequently balanced by nerfs in the very same patch in which they are advertised. The changes to Hadar's Grasp, Dreadtheft, Killing Flames, and such are alternatively underwhelming and counter-productive. Clear issues like Soul Investiture stacks being forced to fall off once at max have gone completely unaddressed.

    All of this combined with the adjustment to Aura of Courage, which disproportionately affects classes like SW and CW, makes for an extremely confusing picture.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • giz#2086 giz Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    I can't understand why they give us five classes to play dps, when they made all to force us (except GWF) to play support, I play my SW since mod 9 when i was leveling and everyone making jokes about SW as a useless class with the big fixes....My first toon was a GWF, i don't like him, i want to play my Warlock as dps, be competent in a group not only as support. You can read in the Stream FAQ where the community manager said: "We want players to play the class they enjoy, not one they feel forced to play". I feel that i'm forced to play Warlock as support only, or play a GWF to be a dps, when they label SW as a dps class. Since mod 9/10 Warlock community is begging for a rework for our dps role, the only thing that we got is: dps nerfs, OBC nerf, the Temptation rework (support), and now, a non viable for end game Damnation path, We have a list in the class forum, a lot of ideas about how to rework the class, but they can't hear us, they won't. I'm not playing my Warlock, i feel disheartened because the class haven't devs feedback or a solution. This game is a constant waiting for the next mod to see if we can get again our role as damage dealers.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    vorphied said:

    ghoulz66 said:

    Even with the owlbear I didn't come close to competing with a GWF. These tiny buffs don't even come close to competing with the old owlbear meta.

    The part that's even harder to understand is where the buffs are frequently balanced by nerfs in the very same patch in which they are advertised. The changes to Hadar's Grasp, Dreadtheft, Killing Flames, and such are alternatively underwhelming and counter-productive. Clear issues like Soul Investiture stacks being forced to fall off once at max have gone completely unaddressed.

    All of this combined with the adjustment to Aura of Courage, which disproportionately affects classes like SW and CW, makes for an extremely confusing picture.
    At least for the most part, CW skills synergize well. SW is a complete mess of skills that don't interact with others and many poorly thought out ideas.
  • littledanger#4115 littledanger Member Posts: 71 Arc User
    Such a mess, just remembered guys - vote with your pocketbook! Haven't actually purchased anything with cash in a Mod or two; don't plan to start anytime soon either. I'm sure typical response is "meh", but I am a customer that has the means and ability to drop a ton of cash on the game and not care. But why the HAMSTER would would I do that? I can't continue to support this type of behavior; it's akin to battered spouse syndrome. Lol, duh - here's some cash, break more of my HAMSTER!
  • lordtweety#3604 lordtweety Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    I still don't get why a lot of posts were deleted, they asked for feedback and they received it. They got feedback on the changes and then on the service/handling of the feedback. There were no insults, rudeness or direct attacks of the devs that I saw. So, unless being abrupt or short or annoyed with a dev is considered a "delete that post!" offence, I don't get what their problem is.
    Main: Angels Scar
    Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
  • lordtweety#3604 lordtweety Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    vorphied said:


    Customer experience stats represent millions of dollars of revenue each year in my line of business, so I struggle to understand how the SW feedback thread appears to have fallen so deeply under the radar that it, in the end, it was acknowledged in no significant way by developers and drew attention only for posters getting angry and rude. I do not get it.

    Neither do I. That type of response or handling in customer service should have resulted in heads rolling.
    Main: Angels Scar
    Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
  • hrakhhrakh Member Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    We will see how things stand in a couple of months. This round of "feedback" was a shambles, but I get the impression they are at the very least somewhat more aware of their shortcomings in this respect. I also am very well aware that that awareness tends to be very transient.... So I will do what I usually do as a SW player. Grumble, Sigh, Shrug and move on, saving my breath for the next chance I get to scream into this particular abyss....
  • feanor#5283 feanor Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    Of course you will se result of balancing shortly, but I'm not sure about quality of these results.
    As I see now development \ moderation etc stuff don't really care about customer satisfaction / experience etc.
    Basically, if, for example devs will say that they are going to completely remove SW class from the game, I will not be surprised.
    I may get a ban for all of my messages in this discussion but I believe that this game and cryptic studio by itself completely dissapointed me. This changelogs one more time has proven how uncompetent, burocratic and even hateful could service company be with her customers.

    All hail Cryptic!
  • isurk#9289 isurk Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    etelgrin said:


    They do not understand the severity of their own changes

    No.
    zeusom said:


    Consider additional SW buffs so that SW is up to par with the other classes.
    @amenar @asterdahl @terramak @panderus

    November 2016

    M15 (November 2018) - SW worst.
    I've waited two years, that's enough.
    They hate us.
  • arkai#8115 arkai Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    I Hope they fix DPS chart too. a enemy with5m hp cant give 10m in DPS chart is nosense lol.so they can really see how t fix all DPS class to give some standard
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Very early impressions on live, but feeling some improvement, mainly around SB/HB Fury.

    I'm not yet sold on the new Damnation as a primary DPS spec. Either I'm missing some potential party synergy that makes it work or it's just not as good as Fury.

    Curse Bite having two charges feels great and makes it more generally competitive with Arms of Hadar for trash sections.

    Temptation feels mostly the same except that Dreadtheft could stand a further increase in damage to account for the impact of the fix to prevent players from using At-Wills while channeling and the decreased number of ticks per cast.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • kobolt1kobolt1 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    Ok if my puppet is gonna be up a lot more now I wanna name him...plz & ty.


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Mr. Universe: From here to the eyes and the ears of the 'Verse, that's my motto, or it might be if I start having a motto. ~ Serenity

    @Kobolt
    My DA Page
    The Legion
  • hawkeyelhawkeyel Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    Has anyone else found this to be a problem.After adding priority in being cast to several of our powers. Start an at will then decide to shadow slip,you can't do so because at-will has priority over shift. Being this class does not have a dodge . Just a short time ago in SW time we was given an update to shadow slip to try and balance out are lack of defense skills and a dodge. Nothing should have priority over Shadow Slip because it is at the core of our defense along with Pillar of Power and Blades of Vanquished Armies that was all improved at the same time ,please fix this. Shadow Slip should have priority over everything else.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    After giving damnation another round, their idea of improving is just another failure.

    The stacks immediately drop off of you, also impossible to maintain in a boss fight. So then you're just forced to slot a horribly useless wraith's shadow to build stacks in a boss fight, but as soon as you build em, they just keep dropping.

    The duration needs refreshed, and needs to last way longer. And allow stacks to build up from other ways. It only hurts this spec for boss fights. Hell even for trash mobs it's not that great because the stacks are constantly expiring by the time you wipe out and encounter another pack.

    Allow the puppet a 25% chance to build a stack or something.
  • laimcelllaimcell Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    > @hawkeyel said:
    > Has anyone else found this to be a problem.After adding priority in being cast to several of our powers. Start an at will then decide to shadow slip,you can't do so because at-will has priority over shift. Being this class does not have a dodge . Just a short time ago in SW time we was given an update to shadow slip to try and balance out are lack of defense skills and a dodge. Nothing should have priority over Shadow Slip because it is at the core of our defense along with Pillar of Power and Blades of Vanquished Armies that was all improved at the same time ,please fix this. Shadow Slip should have priority over everything else.

    +1 to this! Being squishy is pretty bad to not being able to dodge and have to wait for the animation of an at-will to end
  • naoqueroforumnaoqueroforum Member Posts: 225 Arc User
    etelgrin said:

    @isurk#9289

    They do not understand the severity of their own changes, giving some funny "10% boost to this" and "10% nerf to this" while tearing away 200%+ extra effectiveness is alot more damage than 10%.

    Man, they don't understand their own bugs. Bug of hadar was NOT fixed (trust not to trust the patch notes).

    As it was pretty obvious they wouldn't be able to since the first preview patch notes.

    Effectiveness on certain dots is still able to hit 500%+

    And don't worry, they will never be able to fix that one. Only way to remove that bug is by completely changing brood of hadar.

    (hope I didn't give too much away)
  • naoqueroforumnaoqueroforum Member Posts: 225 Arc User

    etelgrin said:

    @isurk#9289

    ...
    And don't worry, they will never be able to fix that one. Only way to remove that bug is by completely changing brood of hadar.

    ...

    or banning whoever uses BoH
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