New Zen Pakets a Bad Joke for Old Players

245

Comments

  • geno82
    geno82 Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    Yea that's exact what I say when u have a dragonborn Paket u can't buy the new version
  • geno82
    geno82 Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    No comments from cryptic?
  • regenerde
    regenerde Member Posts: 2,993 Arc User

    Bad analogy, really. A replacement car (or even just replacing seats) is a physically separate object that cost as much or more to produce than the original.

    The only rational argument here is, "What makes sense for Cryptic to do, as a business entity who wants to encourage its' customers to spend more money and recommend their product to other people?".

    Does it make sense to annoy and aggravate your existing customers? Does it make sense to encourage people to not buy something because, hey, if they update it, you are locked out? Does it make sense to try to cater to people who haven't already spent money with you rather than the people who already have?

    Here is a typical quote from the sort of business advice sites that people pay money to in order to learn how to improve their profitability:

    "For many of us - especially those in service businesses - our existing and previous customers are vital for three reasons:

    1. They have already bought from us, so providing they had a good experience, they might buy from us again. We also know that getting a new customer is much more expensive than selling to an existing customer, so by continuing to sell to them, we are really saving ourselves some money.

    2. They can give us invaluable feedback on how we did. Was our service good enough? Did we delight them or were we 'just ok'. Did our product meet their expectations? Was it good value for money? And so on.

    3. They continue to save us money because they should be our major source of referrals and new business. So through them, we get access to new clients who already know about us and have a positive opinion of what we do.

    Most clients I meet are not leveraging their existing customer database, and by not doing so, are losing out on a cost effective source of potential new business."

    (Source: Megan Tough, https://www.businessknowhow.com; italics mine)

    TL;DR: If you aren't treating your existing clients well, you are basically throwing money away.

    It's more like selling the same car at half price but this time with some kind of software update in it, and telling anyone that bought the car before at full price, that they won't get that software update too...

    Anyway, not much we can do beside waiting for an official reply and telling new players about this, so that they know what to expect from Cryptic in the future.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • geno82
    geno82 Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    @kreatyve

    Can u help us maybe to start a communication with the Dev team? I think this isn't a unimportant topic
  • kreatyve
    kreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,539 Community Moderator
    geno82 said:

    @kreatyve



    Can u help us maybe to start a communication with the Dev team? I think this isn't a unimportant topic

    The thread has been forwarded. People are extremely busy this week (and probably next week too), but I will make sure this gets seen, though I can not promise a comment.
    My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox
    Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
    Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
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  • geno82
    geno82 Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    > @kreatyve said:
    > @kreatyve
    >
    >
    >
    > Can u help us maybe to start a communication with the Dev team? I think this isn't a unimportant topic
    >
    > The thread has been forwarded. People are extremely busy this week (and probably next week too), but I will make sure this gets seen, though I can not promise a comment.

    Thx @kreatyve u doing a very good job. I'm very happy that we have you.

    Cryptic needs more from you.
  • keziah#5074
    keziah#5074 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    I just started playing in Septmeber so two months ago and yes I bought those packs. It makes me VERY mad that I am missing out on a mount AND companion. As I am still relatively new having those does matter to me. And this does tick me off as a newish player to know that I can spend RL money and still miss out on things just because some bean counter somewhere puts in an arbitrary cut off date for things. And yes in the last two months I have probably spent more here than in other games in a year so I have every right to be upset. Give me my missing items please!
  • regenerde
    regenerde Member Posts: 2,993 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    ... just be glad you didn't buy all the regular and all the class packs plus the Guard Drake (which is now part of the new Dragonborn pack) from the shop before this change happened like i did.
    Post edited by regenerde on
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • adinosii
    adinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    what happens if you create a new character? Doe s that character see the new packs in the Zen store (if it has not tried to claim the old packs from the claim agent)?
    Hoping for improvements...
  • geno82
    geno82 Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    No only new accounts see the Paket. When a account have one of the old Pakets u can't see the updated equivalent in Zen store
  • regenerde
    regenerde Member Posts: 2,993 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    no, the new packs do not show up in the ZEN shop or the Reward Claims Agent on a fresh character.
    but i do get a 50% discount on Scrolls of Life, and a 33% discount on a Runic Bag of Holding...

    the Neverwinter's Guardian, Knight of the Feywild and Hero of the North packs are also allready waiting in the in game mail, as soon as i get to Protectors Enclave with a new character.
    the Dragonborn Legend Pack, the old one of course, and all the class packs have to be claimed through the agent again.

    and no changes in claiming all the mounts i bought from the ZEN shop either.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • geno82
    geno82 Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    And any new informations about this @kreatyve ?
  • kreatyve
    kreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,539 Community Moderator
    geno82 said:

    And any new informations about this @kreatyve ?

    Nothing official. I do not think they intend to change anything. Look at it like this - you go to the store to buy a PS4. 2 weeks later, they offer the PS4 bundled with a game for the same price. Do you expect to get that game for free, because you bought the PS4 already? Things change. It's inevitable. When the game first launched on PC, they included Astral Diamonds with those packs too. Nobody fussed too much when they removed the AD.
    My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox
    Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
    Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
    kuI2v8l.png
  • pitshade
    pitshade Member Posts: 5,416 Arc User
    Is the new version bundled with the blue drake with the broad tail (forget the name) and the Black Dragon Ioun Stone? I have yet to see any details.

    For me personally, the only way this would be annoying is if they were new item, exclusive to the pack. If they are existing, available items, then it's exactly as Kreatyve and others say... you don't get an upgrade every time a product gets upgraded. Exclusive items thst a player is shut out from ever acquiring is a bit different, however.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • regenerde
    regenerde Member Posts: 2,993 Arc User
    https://imgur.com/a/nfbNJlh
    the epic companion is account-wide in the new pack, but "we" can buy it for 2.5k ZEN a piece.

    @kreatyve
    i'm pretty sure, that if you would show up with an invoice of your purchase at the store, they would either give you that game or a similar one for free. or at the very least let you purchase that game at a solid discount.
    they know that only a satisfied customer will return and buy more stuff from them. not to mention, that a happy customer would also recommend that store to their friends and/or bring their families along with them the next time.

    and i think, that at the point the AD was removed from those packs, you could still get rAD directly through Invoking and Leadership.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • kreatyve
    kreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,539 Community Moderator
    regenerde said:

    https://imgur.com/a/nfbNJlh
    the epic companion is account-wide in the new pack, but "we" can buy it for 2.5k ZEN a piece.

    @kreatyve
    i'm pretty sure, that if you would show up with an invoice of your purchase at the store, they would either give you that game or a similar one for free. or at the very least let you purchase that game at a solid discount.
    they know that only a satisfied customer will return and buy more stuff from them. not to mention, that a happy customer would also recommend that store to their friends and/or bring their families along with them the next time.

    and i think, that at the point the AD was removed from those packs, you could still get rAD directly through Invoking and Leadership.

    I'll forward the thread again, I probably will not be getting a reply til next week at the earliest.
    My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox
    Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
    Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
    kuI2v8l.png
  • forcemajeure
    forcemajeure Member Posts: 69 Arc User
    Just as a note, I wouldn't feel I had a 'right' to receive something that was added to a package some time after I bought it. That's not the angle I look at this sort of thing from.

    On the other hand, from a strictly business perspective, treating the people who have already spent money with you as valued customers whom you go out of your way to make sure they feel good about their spending experience with you, is a proven and successful technique to get them to spend more.

    Treating them like yesterdays news that you don't give a HAMSTER about, considerably less successful.
  • sgtpostal#4408
    sgtpostal#4408 Member Posts: 379 Arc User
    lol the way i see it is...... "x" person(s) spent "x" money on "x" pack(s) ok granted...... BUT then the company says "hey lets add this stuff to pack(s) "x" and drop the price of them"
    well what about the ppl that spent their money already on the pack(s)? i think if said person(s) that bought pack(s) "x" at "x" price b4 the stuff was added an it was made "b" price should be entitled to the additional added features of the new pack mainly bc they bought the pack(s) already at a more expensive price to strt with so their price they paid now as said pack(s) is cheaper but with more stuff THEY PAID FOR ALREADY bc their pack(s) was more ecpensive and DIDNT have the additional items..... so give them their new items bc they already paid for them.
    in other words cant sell smethin at said price an then later sell the SAME exact item with new stuff for cheaper then original item..... thats unethical.
    sell the pack at x price then later if u want add the items go ahead but charge just a little bit more for the pack bc its got the NEW items in it......makes sense
  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited November 2018

    in other words cant sell smethin at said price an then later sell the SAME exact item with new stuff for cheaper then original item..... thats unethical.

    It's not that I don't understand some of the frustration in this thread, but no, this is not unethical; it's retail marketing.

    Merchants sell the same products for both higher and lower prices all the time, whether it's exactly the same product or with updates or additional items. It's not different just because it's digital.

    In this case we're looking at some products that are up to 5+ years old being repackaged into less ridiculously expensive offerings intended to entice newer players. Those of us who purchased some of these items in the past had exclusive access to them for the previous (higher) entry price for a very long time, so I don't see the issue.

    On top of that, to use the Hero of the North pack as an example, the old price tag is absurd in today's NW economy. Trying to sell that to players is the worse offense IMO.

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  • keziah#5074
    keziah#5074 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    geno82 said:

    And any new informations about this @kreatyve ?

    Nothing official. I do not think they intend to change anything. Look at it like this - you go to the store to buy a PS4. 2 weeks later, they offer the PS4 bundled with a game for the same price. Do you expect to get that game for free, because you bought the PS4 already? Things change. It's inevitable. When the game first launched on PC, they included Astral Diamonds with those packs too. Nobody fussed too much when they removed the AD.
    I didn't buy the packs years ago, I only started playing in September and bought packs after liking the game and I STOPPED buyig them when I realized the new packs were one claim only not account claims. So for me as a new player with money to spend I am very aggravated to find out the packs I just bought now have more ACCOUNT wide claims on them that would be useful for a new player. And your quote doesn't take into account that most stores will let you do a return to get the new "bundle": I would even be ok with it being something like 100 zen for those who have the old packs to buy the new extras since we can't see the new packs and buy them. Little things like that go a long way to make your customers happy and happy customers are WAY more likely to continue spending money. So far I am liking it here and I have played almost every major MMO in the last 15+ years. But issues with cash shops have driven me away from MMO's before (SWTOR and EQ2). I am really hoping it won't happen here.
  • checkmatein3
    checkmatein3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 525 Arc User
    A little off topic, but it fits the scenario a bit:

    One of the original founders packs (for $200) gave you epic gear at lvl 60 (which I still use for transmute), blue gear to help you level to 20, an epic mount, an epic companion (ALL claimable on the same account as many times as you want per character) on the same server (packs did not apply on multiple servers, which existed at that time). Additionally, as stated above, the original beta founders $200 pack came with 2,000,000 AD. This was at a time when the AD:zen exchange was less than 100:1 (I think I bought it when it was 89:1, but I will use 100:1 for an easier comparison). If offered today, that would be equivalent to 10 Million AD. This was claimable on one character only.

    The AD bonus was removed when Neverwinter went live. But, the $200 price remained the same. Those who bought the pack (with the epic spider) missed out on the AD if they bought after beta. The only difference here is that Neverwinter openly advertised that the packs as they were included the bonus AD only as an incentive during beta and would be removed when the game went live. Such honesty in advertising and marketing should be followed by Neverwinter when adding/removing/changing something in the Zen store.
    LEVIATHAN--19.3k Metallic Dragonborn Guardian Fighter Swordmaster Loadouts

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  • geno82
    geno82 Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    The only thing wat is really bad, u can't buy the new Paket when u have the old .. That's not fair
  • naoqueroforum
    naoqueroforum Member Posts: 225 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    geno82 said:

    And any new informations about this @kreatyve ?

    Nothing official. I do not think they intend to change anything. Look at it like this - you go to the store to buy a PS4. 2 weeks later, they offer the PS4 bundled with a game for the same price. Do you expect to get that game for free, because you bought the PS4 already? Things change. It's inevitable. When the game first launched on PC, they included Astral Diamonds with those packs too. Nobody fussed too much when they removed the AD.
    Facepalm.
    I buy one PS4. The next day a PS4 comes in a pack with an xbox for the same price. I want to buy it, paying the full price for this new bundle. Store won't sell it to me because I already have a PS4. Makes sense, right?

    When a friend showed me the pics of the new packs, I immediately wanted to wait for the 40% and buy it just because of the extra account wide bags(the new fey and defender), extra character slot (unobtainable anywhere else after you buy the max slots) and race reroll on top.
    I log in and don't see the packs anywhere.

    I wasn't expecting a free upgrade, or discounted buy for owning the old packs (I actually saw it as a new pack because it has different, new stuff). I just wanted to buy the dang new item. Are they really that business savvy?

    Look at it like this - "hey, let's make a new pack, similar to old packs but with some extra new stuff, and let's not allow the people who tend to spend money in the game to spend some more."
    Even if people who already had the packs got a 99% discount (again, discounts are NOT what people are asking for), they would still be making more than not allowing people to buy it at all.

    Your last example works quite the opposite way. Who would complain about not being able to re-purchase the "new" 20k pack that now doesn't come with the extra ad anymore? It would be the other way around, the people who bought it later and didn't get the ad would be the ones to complain (especially because on the website the pack was advertised with the AD in it until probably last year even though it didn't have any AD for years).

    My friends bask in the glory of their 57 characters bank, while I have to find room among my 53.
  • geno82
    geno82 Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    2 weeks and no informations from Dev team... Great
  • guille23mx
    guille23mx Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 336 Arc User
    You guys are assuming the Devs Care. They dont!
  • roguedemonhunter#1500
    roguedemonhunter#1500 Member Posts: 35 Arc User

    Bad analogy, really. A replacement car (or even just replacing seats) is a physically separate object that cost as much or more to produce than the original.

    The only rational argument here is, "What makes sense for Cryptic to do, as a business entity who wants to encourage its' customers to spend more money and recommend their product to other people?".

    Does it make sense to annoy and aggravate your existing customers? Does it make sense to encourage people to not buy something because, hey, if they update it, you are locked out? Does it make sense to try to cater to people who haven't already spent money with you rather than the people who already have?

    Here is a typical quote from the sort of business advice sites that people pay money to in order to learn how to improve their profitability:

    "For many of us - especially those in service businesses - our existing and previous customers are vital for three reasons:

    1. They have already bought from us, so providing they had a good experience, they might buy from us again. We also know that getting a new customer is much more expensive than selling to an existing customer, so by continuing to sell to them, we are really saving ourselves some money.

    2. They can give us invaluable feedback on how we did. Was our service good enough? Did we delight them or were we 'just ok'. Did our product meet their expectations? Was it good value for money? And so on.

    3. They continue to save us money because they should be our major source of referrals and new business. So through them, we get access to new clients who already know about us and have a positive opinion of what we do.

    Most clients I meet are not leveraging their existing customer database, and by not doing so, are losing out on a cost effective source of potential new business."

    (Source: Megan Tough, https://www.businessknowhow.com; italics mine)

    TL;DR: If you aren't treating your existing clients well, you are basically throwing money away.


    All of this. Now I'm actually a bit put off just from reading the forums, discovering this "outrage" and realizing they put this new pack out without the slightest rearguard to those that have already payed - and slightly more Zen too boot!

    Disturbing....
  • guille23mx
    guille23mx Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 336 Arc User
    I say they let us update our Pack for a smaller price, as we already have most of the stuff they include, just let us have all the new goodies.