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New Zen Pakets a Bad Joke for Old Players

geno82geno82 Member Posts: 80 Arc User
Hello,

i´ve seen on the Account from my Bro in Zenshop the Dragonborn Paket ... same Price as the old Paket ... but with a Mount and a Companion ... i´ve reclaimed on my Account the Paket (i have the Old Paketr for Dollars from Mod3), and nothing ... no mount no Dragon Ioun Stone.... AND i cant Buy the New Paket ... i dont see the Paket in ZenShop ... I have ALLE Old Pakets and i cant buy the new Pakets... The New Pakets have all more Stuff (20.000 Zen Paket now 6000 Zen... Same stuff and extra gimmiks)... Neverwinter Hero Paket... Feywild Paket all have new Extra Stuff (25Wards etc) and we cant Buy the New paket ... In Dragonborn Paket the Dragon Mount And Dragon Ioun Stone is reclaimable for all alts... i havent the Chance to obtain this Paket .... Cryptic what u say?
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Comments

  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,994 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Yep, looks like those new packs are cheaper and offer more content at the same time...
    Also don't forget the improved discount coupons from invoking bags or drops, and that the next ZEN Charge Promotion Event isn't to far away either. Some new players might even wait for the "Cyber Monday"/"Black Friday" sales to get those packs.

    Next stop the return of upgraded Class Packs, at half price and with account-wide epic companions?
    Post edited by regenerde on
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,994 Arc User
    Well, considering that the 25% discount coupon on packs or the 20% discount coupon on everything drop pretty regular, i'd say a new player doesn't even has to pay the new "full" price.

    Anyway, at the very least any buyer of the old packs should have received the improved account-wide content, when they released the new upgraded packs into the shop.

    It's rather comical that "vet." players have to fight tooth and nail for getting something around here, while new players are practially drowned in gifts... not sure how the persons in charge can't see how this is going to bite them in the behind on the long run?
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,585 Arc User
    regenerde said:

    It's rather comical that "vet." players have to fight tooth and nail for getting something around here, while new players are practially drowned in gifts...

    This is very apt. I am no snob or elitist [and I am a bit HAMSTER at playing due to laggy connection, not great computer and generally being a bit meh] but there are new players now in all the epic dungeons to the point where its becoming common place to fail at certain boss mobs.

    We ran Epic Lair of Lostmauth, I was suspicious when we nearly wiped at the two iron scorpions, but the final dragon... wow. I was tanking and the dps was tiny, meaning that the slightest mistake would knock a toon into the lava and kerput, or the falling blocks could knock toons off the little island if the player wasnt paying attention, or some of the one shots be killing toons.

    We wiped three times with the first group - NO heals whatsoever, the "healer" left ... we got drag down to like 10% but too many mistakes...

    I get in another toon from reinforcements - decent enough DPS... team wiped with drag at 50% health... our "main" DPS decides we dont have enough DPS and leaves, another toon leaves.

    I call in reinforcements and switch to DPS and job is done.

    Its hard to explain via text some of the dungeons and boss mobs, such as Valindras red lines and ghosty things, but it does make sense to try and avoid those big red splats and stuff...

    But giving new players il 8k stuff doesnt always have a great outcome

  • smill3xsmill3x Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    I can't belive it .. Why cryptic why u do this? Are not we worth the old player?....
  • smill3xsmill3x Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    Yes this is a hidden change on pc Zen market .. U can't see the new packs when u have the old ones .. U see the packs when u look on a other account with the Paket... I saw this too on the account from my wife ... I don't know how cryptic wants to make amends ... I hope we will get an upgrade
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    Can someone breakdown what is the old pack and what is in the new pack?

    I mean I got it primarily for account wide bag..

    SO if they give you a mount now, who cares, if they removed the bag, if they give both a bag and a mount.. well meh but whatever honestly, I have enough account wide mounts, but do they give 25 pwards PER toon? or just once.. I mean nice and all, but not groundbreaking.




  • smill3xsmill3x Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    The problem is the old Dragonborn pack cost 6000 zen. The new cost 6000zen have the same stuff + a epic dragon mount account wide and a epic dragon ioun stone account wide+ 1 time claimable 3 epic insignia choice packets + 25pres wards and a diamond 25.000rp . It's not about the value alone. It's about principle that how disadvantaged... When I have the old Paket I think it's my right to obtain a epic dragon mount and a epic ioun stone account wide reclaimable
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 832 Arc User
    geno82 said:

    Hello,

    i´ve seen on the Account from my Bro in Zenshop the Dragonborn Paket ... same Price as the old Paket ... but with a Mount and a Companion ... i´ve reclaimed on my Account the Paket (i have the Old Paketr for Dollars from Mod3), and nothing ... no mount no Dragon Ioun Stone.... AND i cant Buy the New Paket ... i dont see the Paket in ZenShop ... I have ALLE Old Pakets and i cant buy the new Pakets... The New Pakets have all more Stuff (20.000 Zen Paket now 6000 Zen... Same stuff and extra gimmiks)... Neverwinter Hero Paket... Feywild Paket all have new Extra Stuff (25Wards etc) and we cant Buy the New paket ... In Dragonborn Paket the Dragon Mount And Dragon Ioun Stone is reclaimable for all alts... i havent the Chance to obtain this Paket .... Cryptic what u say?

    Sorry - where is this new Pack supposed to be? I just looked on the Zen store in game (N.A.) and there is no Dragonborn Pack.

    They did rename the Hero of the North pack and drop the price (FInally) for those who absolutely want or need to have the Renegade/Menzo Drow race. Still no updated class packs though.
  • smill3xsmill3x Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    Sorry I am not online I can't tell u the right name dragonborn Paket is the Paket with the dragonborn race ..

    An example

    Mcs sell u a lifetime vip card for unlimited big macs

    Two days later u best friend buy, the same card and gain lifetime unlimited softdrinks on top ... It's ok... It's a new version but than step two.

    When u think <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> I wish the same card u go to mcs an say I wish to buy the same card as my friend .. But mcs say to you

    No way customer u have the lifetime card u can't buy the new version muhahahaha ..

    U understand what the problem is? Not the new Paket alone the problem is when u have the old u can't buy the new Paket with the new account wide stuff. I am a collector and this is not fair .. Old Paket not updatet and no chance to gain the new Paket ..
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    I own all packs and seeing this does not surprise me. For instance they updated the pack that provided the Mercenary and the level gear pack and I didn't get anything out of that and I bought it outright. Here is another updated pack that I will not be able to claim or buy due to already owning the Dragonborn pack.

    Other games do somethings like this; they combined or add to the older packs as the older packs lose value over time and to entice newer players to buy them they have to add items to the pack to get newer players to buy the packs. This is nothing new in the realm of MMO games that are constantly trying to get new customers to spend money.

    If the devs want me to spend money, allow me to buy account wide legendary mounts. I would buy at minimum 4 of them right off the bat and yet Cryptic does not want my money.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,605 Arc User
    edited November 2018

    geno82 said:

    Hello,

    i´ve seen on the Account from my Bro in Zenshop the Dragonborn Paket ... same Price as the old Paket ... but with a Mount and a Companion ... i´ve reclaimed on my Account the Paket (i have the Old Paketr for Dollars from Mod3), and nothing ... no mount no Dragon Ioun Stone.... AND i cant Buy the New Paket ... i dont see the Paket in ZenShop ... I have ALLE Old Pakets and i cant buy the new Pakets... The New Pakets have all more Stuff (20.000 Zen Paket now 6000 Zen... Same stuff and extra gimmiks)... Neverwinter Hero Paket... Feywild Paket all have new Extra Stuff (25Wards etc) and we cant Buy the New paket ... In Dragonborn Paket the Dragon Mount And Dragon Ioun Stone is reclaimable for all alts... i havent the Chance to obtain this Paket .... Cryptic what u say?

    Sorry - where is this new Pack supposed to be? I just looked on the Zen store in game (N.A.) and there is no Dragonborn Pack.

    They did rename the Hero of the North pack and drop the price (FInally) for those who absolutely want or need to have the Renegade/Menzo Drow race. Still no updated class packs though.
    You cannot see the pack because you already have Drogonborn Legend pack.

    The new one is Drogonborn Race pack which is not available for those who already have Dragonborn Legend pack.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    Well jeepers, that does sound a bit out of whack.. why cannot they add these items into old legendary pack for us? I mean its probably not that worthwhile, but still, you know.

    Some players may want them.

    If it costs the same and we already purchased it, they should make it retroactive.

  • smill3xsmill3x Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    > @silverkelt said:
    > Well jeepers, that does sound a bit out of whack.. why cannot they add these items into old legendary pack for us? I mean its probably not that worthwhile, but still, you know.
    >
    > Some players may want them.
    >
    > If it costs the same and we already purchased it, they should make it retroactive.

    Or give us the chance to gain a upgrade maybe for 1500 zen when u have the old Paket u can buy a upgrade to the new Paket
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,605 Arc User

    Well jeepers, that does sound a bit out of whack.. why cannot they add these items into old legendary pack for us? I mean its probably not that worthwhile, but still, you know.

    Some players may want them.

    If it costs the same and we already purchased it, they should make it retroactive.

    Oh! It worth it for us. There is a purple Drake mount and a purple companion (I forget what it is) + other goodies.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    well the comp is pretty worthless, i would take the drake mount for fun though

    and well 25 pwards are next to nothing , I would still use them up once anyways
  • geno82geno82 Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    > @silverkelt said:
    > well the comp is pretty worthless, i would take the drake mount for fun though
    >
    > and well 25 pwards are next to nothing , I would still use them up once anyways

    I think u don't understand the problem . The problem is we have no chance to obtain the new Paket .. It's all about the principle
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    No i understand, I am also asking they they add it, its just simply they probably wont and will ignore this request.. but who knows, every once in awhile they might surprise us.
  • geno82geno82 Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    > @silverkelt said:
    > No i understand, I am also asking they they add it, its just simply they probably wont and will ignore this request.. but who knows, every once in awhile they might surprise us.

    Yea our Pakets name is legendary dragonborn Paket... Maybe cryptic adds a legendary dragon mound to the Paket hahaha and a legendary ambush drake lol

    Attention it's sacarsm.. A gift from me for cryptic a buck filled with sacarsm . Bon Appetit
  • forcemajeureforcemajeure Member Posts: 69 Arc User
    Cryptic and other game devs often forget a fairly basic principle of business: it is all well and good to try to entice new customers, but the people who have already spent money at your business are far more likely to spend money there again than a 'potential new customer'.

    Well, unless you make it a practice to rip your current customers off, of course. Then they stop spending altogether, and tell potential new customers not to spend anything either.
  • sgtpostal#4408 sgtpostal Member Posts: 379 Arc User
    i agree with evrybdy else..... if u have the pack alredy an they went an not only upgraded said pack they made it cheapper then the original pack.... those who bought the original pack should at least be given the added items they put into the new pack.... least imo ayways
  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User
    I understand where you all are coming from. I'm of two minds on this. On one hand, it would be great if the changes were made available to those who already purchased these packs. On the other, I'm not really bothered by not getting these changes. I suspect doing that is harder than we expect. I would be willing to bet that the version/SKU of the pack is coded into our accounts' records. So while the old version of the pack can no longer be purchased, it still exists in the database and whenever we go to the Claims Agent, the Claims Agent logic looks up the SKU for the pack and makes that version of the pack available to us. As for being able to buy the new version when we already have the old version, they probably coded it the other way: The store simply checks for "Dragonborn Pack" or some such and disables our ability to buy the pack based on that, rather than comparing the SKU we purchased and the SKU that's currently available for purchase.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,994 Arc User
    For now they could simply let anyone that allready has bought the old pack also claim the new pack, and "retire" the old pack completly from the game later.

    Before someone starts complaining about my suggestion not being "fair" or what ever - they're going to hand out Runic Bags of Holding and a load of other good stuff to every single new character for the next 2 months... i really doubt that upgrading the old packs to the new ones is going to break the game.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Member Posts: 537 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    regenerde said:


    It's rather comical that "vet." players have to fight tooth and nail for getting something around here, while new players are practially drowned in gifts... not sure how the persons in charge can't see how this is going to bite them in the behind on the long run?

    The problem NW has is the grind wall at post 70 LV and the power creep that makes everything pre-the latest content mod garbage. Aka, its their own mechanics that are making it hard to retain new players, hence, the showering of gifts from packs, Knox event, Ravenloft, etc. But even after these, the players will still hit that wall and have to grind and grind. Luckily they can get a class up to 70 then buy slots and try out other classes. But once they try out all those classes, they either have to buy into the grind or they quite the game.

  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User

    I have no doubt you are correct regarding the programming principles involved but this is the sort of issue that will upset a lot of veteran players and will have a very long term backlash.

    Should have thought of this issue before starting the programming though. If anyone at Cryptic had even a primitive understanding of human nature then this issue would have been brought up before any coding took place.

    Yeah. I completely agree. There should be a mechanism by which they can mark a pack as superseded by another pack, making the newer pack either claimable by those who already purchased an older version or making it purchasable again.
  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Member Posts: 1,654 Arc User
    I can see why some people might get upset by this.

    It doesn't really bother me too greatly although I think the right solution is to allow people to purchase a heavily discounted pack if they already owned the old pack.

    Just being handed the new items because you bought the old pack 6 months ago just strikes such a level of entitlement. I own the dragonborn pack but I don't think I would make a claim on the new items just because I bought a pack 2 years ago. A discount on the new pack would be something I would look at.

    This is the equivalent of buying a base model car and then the following year they redesign the vehicle and add more features to the base model. You wouldn't expect to be able to go in to the dealership and say "I bought this same car last year but it didn't have heated seats in that model. I want you to give me heated seats at no charge since it's the same base package."

  • forcemajeureforcemajeure Member Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Bad analogy, really. A replacement car (or even just replacing seats) is a physically separate object that cost as much or more to produce than the original.

    The only rational argument here is, "What makes sense for Cryptic to do, as a business entity who wants to encourage its' customers to spend more money and recommend their product to other people?".

    Does it make sense to annoy and aggravate your existing customers? Does it make sense to encourage people to not buy something because, hey, if they update it, you are locked out? Does it make sense to try to cater to people who haven't already spent money with you rather than the people who already have?

    Here is a typical quote from the sort of business advice sites that people pay money to in order to learn how to improve their profitability:

    "For many of us - especially those in service businesses - our existing and previous customers are vital for three reasons:

    1. They have already bought from us, so providing they had a good experience, they might buy from us again. We also know that getting a new customer is much more expensive than selling to an existing customer, so by continuing to sell to them, we are really saving ourselves some money.

    2. They can give us invaluable feedback on how we did. Was our service good enough? Did we delight them or were we 'just ok'. Did our product meet their expectations? Was it good value for money? And so on.

    3. They continue to save us money because they should be our major source of referrals and new business. So through them, we get access to new clients who already know about us and have a positive opinion of what we do.

    Most clients I meet are not leveraging their existing customer database, and by not doing so, are losing out on a cost effective source of potential new business."

    (Source: Megan Tough, https://www.businessknowhow.com; italics mine)

    TL;DR: If you aren't treating your existing clients well, you are basically throwing money away.


  • lldtlldt Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    geno82 said:

    The problem is we have no chance to obtain the new Paket .. It's all about the principle

    The issue is the pack is tied in with the Race Unlock. Once the race is unlocked, you wouldn't want someone to buy another unlock again, so the pack is hidden. People are just upset the new bundle is better. This has nothing to do with not being able to buy the new bundle.

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