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M15: Hunter Ranger Class Changes

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  • krondhorkrondhor Posts: 147Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    @noworries#8859
    Please also fix the Combat Talent: Wilds Medicine remove "This feat is half as effective in PVP" this is total useless nowadays since the nerf to how healing works these days.
    GRAVITY X GAME
  • wdj40wdj40 Posts: 1,954Member Arc User
    edited October 2018
    isssssho said:

    Ok so not to confuse this feedback with HR in general I'd like to address end game HR only. With those changes to aots that you stated above your are risking overbuffing combat HR and therefore calling for another class balancing later on in the future where you would have to nerf it. The opinion might be quite unpopular and trapper does need some buffs but the way you described it is exploitable for other builds as well and not only for stance changer. I do not wish for HR or any other class to be too powerful I simply wish for for all classes to be brought in line with each other.
    When talking AOTS changes you should as well have in mind that both stacks are in multiplicative nature with each other so 2 stacks in fact count as 2 independent buffs. With changes made to bladestorm earlier you already made combat in a better position compared to where they were already (and where they were is more than fine dps wise).
    Due to changes made to other classes in the list of strongest dps classes nothing will change for us since top spot will be now reserved for CW, followed by GF and HR coming shortly after. What changes is the gap after the HR and all other classes becoming wider.

    I disagree with you here dude... for a Combat spec there are better options than Aspect of the Serpent even if you can get both stacks at the same time etc.

    As others have mentioned its not really worth dropping Aspect of the Pack, esspecially if you use a Tiger Companion as it makes him so much better, just as a test hit a training dummy without Pack and watch it attack.. then equip Pack and bam he attacks faster and drops his nice debuff quicker etc. Then the damage bonus from Off-Hand etc.

    So you are left dropping a buffed up Bladestorm or another Passive you may use. Its not really worth it for Combat.

    Having both stacks build at the same time is going to be quality for a Trapper build which needs buffing at the moment... It may also have a use for a PvP Archer... not sure about a PvE Archer though.
    Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only
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  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,458Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    kangkeok said:

    Lets leave aspect of the pack as it is. Giving range archer aspect of the pack and the party buff might make archer a little overbuff. So lets just focus on extending the party buff.

    Besides, Its kinda fit in the lore that aspect of the pack work when people are within the pack and not isolated. Breaking the lore just to conveniently buff a build is abit ...

    Depends on how the pack works when hunting. Wolves harass and weary their targets. Other creatures, the ones you see are to worry you. The one you don't see is the one that will kill you. The one you don't see does not hang around with the rest of the pack (isolated? But still part of the pack).
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 2,977Member Arc User
    wdj40 said:

    trolls gonna troll

    I dont understand anything of what they said... I am no good with fairly difficult maths like that so it goes above my head.

    They seem to be equipping Aspect of the Serpent or Seekers Vengence on a Combat build... I dont use either, I have AotP and either Bladestorm or TBS depending on how many enemies I am facing etc.

    I use seekers and aotp. sometimes bladestorm. although I'm not really sure how much good seekers does in a lot of situations. I am not sure why but it's reallly hard to get behind the enemy. every time I get there boss turns to face me. or the tank decides they want to be next to me or something. I honestly am not sure what is going on but it seems like I spend a lot of time dodging to position myself to the side or back. pretty sure it hurts my dps more than it helps. actually, if anyone has any advice on that..... do other people have that problem. not sure if it's just stupid tanks or something I'm doing to steal aggro.
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  • wdj40wdj40 Posts: 1,954Member Arc User

    wdj40 said:

    trolls gonna troll

    I dont understand anything of what they said... I am no good with fairly difficult maths like that so it goes above my head.

    They seem to be equipping Aspect of the Serpent or Seekers Vengence on a Combat build... I dont use either, I have AotP and either Bladestorm or TBS depending on how many enemies I am facing etc.

    I use seekers and aotp. sometimes bladestorm. although I'm not really sure how much good seekers does in a lot of situations. I am not sure why but it's reallly hard to get behind the enemy. every time I get there boss turns to face me. or the tank decides they want to be next to me or something. I honestly am not sure what is going on but it seems like I spend a lot of time dodging to position myself to the side or back. pretty sure it hurts my dps more than it helps. actually, if anyone has any advice on that..... do other people have that problem. not sure if it's just stupid tanks or something I'm doing to steal aggro.
    Yeah... this is the point where I wish I had Act to run some tests. Things like overall effectiveness of certain damage combo's after a full dungeon run. If I had Act I would be running 100's of dungeons right now rather than be a bit bored and just doing a bit of PvP. Have to rely on information I have got myself or PC players, but no-one is the same so even a PC player with the same layout as me might play completely different etc.
    Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only
    Alts :
    Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)

    Member of Q-Snipe
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 2,977Member Arc User
    wdj40 said:

    wdj40 said:

    trolls gonna troll

    I dont understand anything of what they said... I am no good with fairly difficult maths like that so it goes above my head.

    They seem to be equipping Aspect of the Serpent or Seekers Vengence on a Combat build... I dont use either, I have AotP and either Bladestorm or TBS depending on how many enemies I am facing etc.

    I use seekers and aotp. sometimes bladestorm. although I'm not really sure how much good seekers does in a lot of situations. I am not sure why but it's reallly hard to get behind the enemy. every time I get there boss turns to face me. or the tank decides they want to be next to me or something. I honestly am not sure what is going on but it seems like I spend a lot of time dodging to position myself to the side or back. pretty sure it hurts my dps more than it helps. actually, if anyone has any advice on that..... do other people have that problem. not sure if it's just stupid tanks or something I'm doing to steal aggro.
    Yeah... this is the point where I wish I had Act to run some tests. Things like overall effectiveness of certain damage combo's after a full dungeon run. If I had Act I would be running 100's of dungeons right now rather than be a bit bored and just doing a bit of PvP. Have to rely on information I have got myself or PC players, but no-one is the same so even a PC player with the same layout as me might play completely different etc.
    so download the game on your pc and act and give it a go. that's why I originally downloaded it on pc but it turns out I'm a little too much of a fumble fingers to do anything super effectively on pc compared to console. so it wouldn't really be meaningful from me.
    xbox guild Origins

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    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


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  • grey#8986 grey Posts: 2Member Arc User

    I don’t usually post but as I main an archery pve HR important to flag my views to devs in light of mod 15 changes.

    Bottomless Quiver; great to see the improvement up to 40% recharge speed.

    Stillness of the Forest; in it is current form this feat is broken for endgame purposes and not useful for PVE builds, which rely on being in buff range. The move away from distance = damage is a pragmatic response to this issue and for mod 15 something I can agree with.

    Ranged stance or stamina; Most archers are mobile and therefore basing damage stacks on standing still is counter-intuitive. Basing stacks on time spent in ranged stance as others recommend or on time spent at full stamina may be good alternatives.

    It would be good to see the critical chance stat remain the same (up to 25%) or at least improved on the proposed amount slightly.

    Longer term class balancing; it would be good if dev’s could consider as part of class balancing (mod 16?) the existing tensions between the need to be in range of party buffs to be end game viable vs the desire of many archers to play at range, with many of the existing archer damage abilities (e.g. hunting hawk) also requiring increasing range.

    Gaining buffs at range; longer term it would be good to see one of the lower tiered archery feats (T3?) changed to allow buffs at range, something like ‘Ley lines – receive 10/20/30/40/50 % of party buffs at 10/20/30/40/50’ range. Recognise this isn’t going to happen anytime soon but it would be good if devs could acknowledge as the key issue facing the Archery tree.

    Predator; it is really positive to see this changed to the damage buff, making the capstone useful.

    Thanks.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    They say there are no PVE Archers in Neverwinter..some of us are just Imaginary
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 2,977Member Arc User
    edited October 2018
    for soloing I really wish the yeti had just a slightly more useful bonus. I find myself really wanting to use him to make it slightly easier to get behind big things. but he's expensive to outfit and you're taking a hit by equipping him. when you can position yourself with seekers the benefit is real and super noticeable.

    @artifleur good idea on codg. I usually just leave seekers on just because none of the other things seem better but I guess deflection is something. (although still probably not much of a noticeable difference. )
    xbox guild Origins

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • wdj40wdj40 Posts: 1,954Member Arc User

    wdj40 said:

    wdj40 said:

    trolls gonna troll

    I dont understand anything of what they said... I am no good with fairly difficult maths like that so it goes above my head.

    They seem to be equipping Aspect of the Serpent or Seekers Vengence on a Combat build... I dont use either, I have AotP and either Bladestorm or TBS depending on how many enemies I am facing etc.

    I use seekers and aotp. sometimes bladestorm. although I'm not really sure how much good seekers does in a lot of situations. I am not sure why but it's reallly hard to get behind the enemy. every time I get there boss turns to face me. or the tank decides they want to be next to me or something. I honestly am not sure what is going on but it seems like I spend a lot of time dodging to position myself to the side or back. pretty sure it hurts my dps more than it helps. actually, if anyone has any advice on that..... do other people have that problem. not sure if it's just stupid tanks or something I'm doing to steal aggro.
    Yeah... this is the point where I wish I had Act to run some tests. Things like overall effectiveness of certain damage combo's after a full dungeon run. If I had Act I would be running 100's of dungeons right now rather than be a bit bored and just doing a bit of PvP. Have to rely on information I have got myself or PC players, but no-one is the same so even a PC player with the same layout as me might play completely different etc.
    so download the game on your pc and act and give it a go. that's why I originally downloaded it on pc but it turns out I'm a little too much of a fumble fingers to do anything super effectively on pc compared to console. so it wouldn't really be meaningful from me.
    I would love to... but alas I do not have a PC. I wonder why they cant give us a better combat log type thing at the end of a run on console... They have all the little numbers come up as you go through, shouldnt be too hard to give us totals at the end.
    artifleur said:

    I use SV whenever I can stand behind the boss (don't forget it also works from the sides) or Aspect of the Lone Wolf if I can't (such as in CODG). Whether you prefer 20% deflection chance or the small damage of Bladestorm (less than 2% more damage as extra attack) is up to you. I prefer the deflection. I don't bother switching to Bladestorm for mobs.

    With current preview version, Bladestorm will go from 25% chance of 20% damage to 20% chance of 40% damage and still won't work with Piercing Blade and Blade Hurricane. I don't think I'll bother using it.

    Aspect of the Pack is of course mandatory if only for its off-hand bonus.

    wdj40 said:

    Yeah... this is the point where I wish I had Act to run some tests. Things like overall effectiveness of certain damage combo's after a full dungeon run. If I had Act I would be running 100's of dungeons right now rather than be a bit bored and just doing a bit of PvP. Have to rely on information I have got myself or PC players, but no-one is the same so even a PC player with the same layout as me might play completely different etc.

    Sadly, ACT doesn't really help with that. Seeker's Vengeance is a real damage buff so it doesn't appear on the log. Effectiveness only works for DR debuffs. Damage per second also is unreliable since it depends heavily on other people buffing you. You may still perfectly reproduce a fight with and without SV but it's not easy.

    Why are so many people giving beyond bogus feedback?
    - End game group dungeon content: HR is not viable as a DPS class

    Talking about bogus feedback, ...
    Ah I didnt know that, thanks dude. I thought Act had a bit more depth to it that I am imagining :)
    Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only
    Alts :
    Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)

    Member of Q-Snipe
  • Stillness of the Forest (new version) is still broken as of my last test today. I created a bug report thread on that, so hopefully it will at least get fixed. I'm pretty sure everyone still agrees that the new Stillness of the Forest should be rolled back to the M14 version. The latest "fixes" for HR in the last preview patch did nothing to fix it. I just hope a good source code revision control system is in place so they can easily restore the previous version of the feat.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 843Member Arc User
    .
    greywynd said:

    kangkeok said:

    Lets leave aspect of the pack as it is. Giving range archer aspect of the pack and the party buff might make archer a little overbuff. So lets just focus on extending the party buff.

    Besides, Its kinda fit in the lore that aspect of the pack work when people are within the pack and not isolated. Breaking the lore just to conveniently buff a build is abit ...

    Depends on how the pack works when hunting. Wolves harass and weary their targets. Other creatures, the ones you see are to worry you. The one you don't see is the one that will kill you. The one you don't see does not hang around with the rest of the pack (isolated? But still part of the pack).
    Regardless if u see him or not but as long as he works with the pack, he is with the pack. What makes him not with the pack and isolated are that he works and kill alone.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 843Member Arc User
    edited October 2018
    grey#8986 said:


    Stillness of the Forest; in it is current form this feat is broken for endgame purposes and not useful for PVE builds, which rely on being in buff range. The move away from distance = damage is a pragmatic response to this issue and for mod 15 something I can agree with.

    This feat is not broken. Its functioning as it is described and intended. That's why more powers like Aspect of the falcon and hunting hawk buff are getting in conflict when they trying to change stillness of forest and bring archer to play at buff range. It even contradict the whole idea of playing archery.

    The whole situation started when the developer did not consider the existence of archer or they overlook that archery are design to play at range, when they are designing those buff. IMO It can and should be fix by adjusting the buff to have an adequate range for archer to play in. That's the correct way of fixing this issue without implicating more power into the conflict.


    Edit,

    Another reason the developer are restricting buff range are probably because of pvp. If that is the reason, it can too be solved by having the buff range work differently in pvp and pve. IMO, its just a few codes that the developer are unwilling to do for just 1 tree path of a class. If its true, I cant blame that either. Its all the design fault from the beginning for having only one range class. They should have just remove archery from this game if they don't plan to consider archery to be part of the game. Just saying.
  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,458Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    kangkeok said:



    Regardless if u see him or not but as long as he works with the pack, he is with the pack. What makes him not with the pack and isolated are that he works and kill alone.

    I agree. Which is why an archer should be receiving party buffs regardless of where he is in relation to the rest of the party.
    kangkeok said:

    Its all the design fault from the beginning for having only one range class. They should have just remove archery from this game if they don't plan to consider archery to be part of the game. Just saying.

    Technically, the CW should also be classed as a ranged character.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 843Member Arc User
    edited October 2018
    greywynd said:

    Which is why an archer should be receiving party buffs regardless of where he is in relation to the rest of the party.

    I agree that archer should be receiving the party buff regardless of where he is but I have to disagree that aspect of the pack need to be changed to suit archer needs. Aspect of the pack are design to give CA to party member that is within reach ( working within the pack). Archer are basically working alone in the backline. If the archer die and no one sees him for raise, he is basically dead. If the archer pull just one mobs aggro, he is on his own. The whole party wont forsake the rest of the mob and come miles to the archer rescue just because of one stray mob.
    greywynd said:

    kangkeok said:

    Its all the design fault from the beginning for having only one range class. They should have just remove archery from this game if they don't plan to consider archery to be part of the game. Just saying.

    Technically, the CW should also be classed as a ranged character.
    If they change CW aoe to focus on range and not his surrounding, that could bring cw to be a range class. Still that's up to the developer.
  • seveninchbladeseveninchblade Posts: 73Member Arc User
    edited October 2018
    divectore said:

    As a combat HR, you should always use Throw Caution right after longstrider to buff yourself thoroughly, that will consume 1 stack of melee, leaving you with 1 stack left of 12% more damage, 12 - 8 = 4% effective buff over AotP, for just 1 power, as for the burst part, you should always start a fight with max selfbuffs, that combo would be (lss + tc + at-will for battlecrazed stacks) so you would be serpent-stackless by the time you are fully buffed. How ever, this stands true for Combat only, Trappers do use PG or GW right after longstrider's shot, so there is where the real changes are felt.

    Rotations like this are why so many people in this thread seem to think HR does poor DPS...

    The described rotation is bad on at least two different levels. 1) Initiating with LSS before using TC and building up Battlecrazed means you will almost never have the LSS buff for both of your main powers. So your own buff window is wasted. 2) You failed to align your buff window with the typical timing of the group buff window, completely gimping your damage. Per the excellent Group Synergy Guide written by Janne and crew, the optimal buff window generally occurs about 8 seconds into the fight, but you're recommending blowing your load in the first 4 seconds.

    A better rotation will open with StS (optional) followed by TC -> 2x At-will -> DS -> SSC (when up) -> LSS -> GW/PG -> GW/PG -> At-will x2/3 -> Repeat

    The rotation just described ensures that your entire stack of self buffs is active for both PG and GW, and tends to line up much better with the 8 second mark for group buffs.
    Post edited by seveninchblade on
    Charisma was my dump stat.
  • seveninchbladeseveninchblade Posts: 73Member Arc User
    artifleur said:

    With current preview version, Bladestorm will go from 25% chance of 20% damage to 20% chance of 40% damage and still won't work with Piercing Blade and Blade Hurricane. I don't think I'll bother using it.

    That is incorrect. You can get up to 6 Bladestorm procs per at-will if flurry is active. 1 from the initial hit, 2 from the 2 Blade Hurricane procs, and 3 from the 3 associated Piercing Blade procs.
    Charisma was my dump stat.
  • artifleurartifleur Posts: 561Member Arc User

    artifleur said:

    With current preview version, Bladestorm will go from 25% chance of 20% damage to 20% chance of 40% damage and still won't work with Piercing Blade and Blade Hurricane. I don't think I'll bother using it.

    That is incorrect. You can get up to 6 Bladestorm procs per at-will if flurry is active. 1 from the initial hit, 2 from the 2 Blade Hurricane procs, and 3 from the 3 associated Piercing Blade procs.
    That's good to know. Thanks.

    At the same time I might just go back to pathfinder if Careful Attack is good enough again.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 843Member Arc User
    zerappus said:

    It's like giving the GWF Ace, Ace, Ace, Ace, while giving other classes King, Jack, Eight and Five, or Queen, Ten, Nine, Six etc. then proclaiming "we are balancing the classes".

    Nice portrays about class balance. Frankly, if the developer are not capable of treating every class fairly, its pointless to even to have those class.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 843Member Arc User
    edited October 2018

    kangkeok said:

    kangkeok said:

    They should remove Archery entirely and return it to something akin to the old Nature path.

    http://updoufu.hatenablog.com/entry/2014/01/17/122639

    A ranged gameplay has no place in Neverwinter. Asking to redesign the entire game around making a ranged gameplay viable is ridiculous, easier to just rework 1 path.

    Yea. Lets just watered down the beer since we need money to repair the roof. Oh wait, this is too hard, lets just close down the bar business and maybe try construction business.
    They should replace stillness of the forest with point blank, which is also an "archer themed feat" then you can keep in your "roll play universe" and archer can stand in the range of buffs like every other dps without destroying the playstyle of every single support where "gasp* positioning is part of learning to play just to make the 2 people who roleplay as useless happy,
    Sometimes I find your point of view can be real toxic towards other player in this game. U gotta change that. Living a life that's filled with hatred will only lead a miserable life. Anyway, How does extending buff range destroy the playstyle of every single support?
    Because part of playing a support is knowing where to position. It is learning that Wol has a range of 15' or that you need to stand close to the dps for BoB. And for a DpS, part of learning to play is learning you need to stand *inside* the (insert buff which has a clearly demarcated area, example HG or Astral Shield) here if you want its effect. Changing this to accommodate the whole 2 people who play archery is killing off an entire aspect of learning to play just to please 2 people.
    So 1st u say u hate people playing as range archer because u are having a hard time coordinating with them. Now that if the buff range is increase to allow the convenience, u are complaining about not able to play with positioning. U know, L2P isn't something in the text book. Its everchanging. And if the developer did increase all the buff range, maybe its time for u to L2P.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 2,977Member Arc User
    artifleur said:

    artifleur said:

    With current preview version, Bladestorm will go from 25% chance of 20% damage to 20% chance of 40% damage and still won't work with Piercing Blade and Blade Hurricane. I don't think I'll bother using it.

    That is incorrect. You can get up to 6 Bladestorm procs per at-will if flurry is active. 1 from the initial hit, 2 from the 2 Blade Hurricane procs, and 3 from the 3 associated Piercing Blade procs.
    That's good to know. Thanks.

    At the same time I might just go back to pathfinder if Careful Attack is good enough again.
    I would LOVE to be able to go back to pathfinder
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    Rincewind CW 18k


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  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 2,977Member Arc User

    artifleur said:

    With current preview version, Bladestorm will go from 25% chance of 20% damage to 20% chance of 40% damage and still won't work with Piercing Blade and Blade Hurricane. I don't think I'll bother using it.

    That is incorrect. You can get up to 6 Bladestorm procs per at-will if flurry is active. 1 from the initial hit, 2 from the 2 Blade Hurricane procs, and 3 from the 3 associated Piercing Blade procs.
    my rotations are generally suboptimal because I tend to go with whatever is ready. it seems like the most likely path for me is ls pg tc and then gw with at wills between. tc and gw. (usually because I realize I've done the wrong thing first) but I have no complaints with dps for combat. there are other hrs who are better than me. but I don't have a problem putting out decent damage in group content.
    xbox guild Origins

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • wdj40wdj40 Posts: 1,954Member Arc User

    artifleur said:

    artifleur said:

    With current preview version, Bladestorm will go from 25% chance of 20% damage to 20% chance of 40% damage and still won't work with Piercing Blade and Blade Hurricane. I don't think I'll bother using it.

    That is incorrect. You can get up to 6 Bladestorm procs per at-will if flurry is active. 1 from the initial hit, 2 from the 2 Blade Hurricane procs, and 3 from the 3 associated Piercing Blade procs.
    That's good to know. Thanks.

    At the same time I might just go back to pathfinder if Careful Attack is good enough again.
    I would LOVE to be able to go back to pathfinder
    Pathfinder is still perfectly viable... I still am in both PvE (Trapper) and PvP (Archer)... If I switch to Combat its Stormwarden though.

    But anyhoo even with Careful Attack bugged you can still smash out the DPS... The players that are pure DPS and will come above me in the Paingiver charts are BiS GWF's, a few SW and very rarely a TR. They all get buffed by me as well. But anyhoo Pathfinder is still solid, all my PvE clips lately are still Pathfinder.

    It would just be a bit better if Careful Attack procced properly and I hear they are supposed to be fixing it.
    Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only
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  • wizardlvl80#5963 wizardlvl80 Posts: 505Member Arc User
    First of all, I am really happy about the CA fix and proposed AotS change. This will be awesome.

    I plan to go back to trapper for good. Maybe combat is THE spec for best dps but hell it's boring for me. I wonder if we will ever get some buff/rework of how roots work. I always laughed that our roots don't "root" your target. Nonetheless I really like to be the semi-dps role with ulitility for the party.

    As for the archery, I think it is a really hard concept that always had hard times in gaming overall. Archer-ish characters were always awesome in pvp but sucked hard in pvp. Even in tabletop D&D, full range spec is something very rare, since you never were so useful to the party. I ran a D&D 4e archer full dps once and it wasn't so good. I tried it once during mod11 but it was more like standing still and shooting. Kinda meh for me, since it was ranged version of combat.
  • seveninchbladeseveninchblade Posts: 73Member Arc User
    On a more productive note: Predator/Prey now seems to be functioning correctly. Although it may be assumed because it is in the archery tree, it might be good to change the tooltip to clarify that the damage bonus is only applied to ranged powers.
    Charisma was my dump stat.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 2,977Member Arc User
    wdj40 said:

    artifleur said:

    artifleur said:

    With current preview version, Bladestorm will go from 25% chance of 20% damage to 20% chance of 40% damage and still won't work with Piercing Blade and Blade Hurricane. I don't think I'll bother using it.

    That is incorrect. You can get up to 6 Bladestorm procs per at-will if flurry is active. 1 from the initial hit, 2 from the 2 Blade Hurricane procs, and 3 from the 3 associated Piercing Blade procs.
    That's good to know. Thanks.

    At the same time I might just go back to pathfinder if Careful Attack is good enough again.
    I would LOVE to be able to go back to pathfinder
    Pathfinder is still perfectly viable... I still am in both PvE (Trapper) and PvP (Archer)... If I switch to Combat its Stormwarden though.

    But anyhoo even with Careful Attack bugged you can still smash out the DPS... The players that are pure DPS and will come above me in the Paingiver charts are BiS GWF's, a few SW and very rarely a TR. They all get buffed by me as well. But anyhoo Pathfinder is still solid, all my PvE clips lately are still Pathfinder.

    It would just be a bit better if Careful Attack procced properly and I hear they are supposed to be fixing it.

    I disagree. I tried going back to pathfinder for a day. I got owned by a 15000 gwf in content. that wouldnt happen with my combat load out. I tried it again the other day in a hunt and was basically putting out no damage. trapper is not viable imo compared to the damage we can deal with combat.
    xbox guild Origins

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  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 2,977Member Arc User
    edited October 2018
    divectore said:

    divectore said:

    As a combat HR, you should always use Throw Caution right after longstrider to buff yourself thoroughly, that will consume 1 stack of melee, leaving you with 1 stack left of 12% more damage, 12 - 8 = 4% effective buff over AotP, for just 1 power, as for the burst part, you should always start a fight with max selfbuffs, that combo would be (lss + tc + at-will for battlecrazed stacks) so you would be serpent-stackless by the time you are fully buffed. How ever, this stands true for Combat only, Trappers do use PG or GW right after longstrider's shot, so there is where the real changes are felt.

    Rotations like this are why so many people in this thread seem to think HR does poor DPS...

    The described rotation is bad on at least two different levels. 1) Initiating with LSS before using TC and building up Battlecrazed means you will almost never have the LSS buff for both of your main powers. So your own buff window is wasted. 2) You failed to align your buff window with the typical timing of the group buff window, completely gimping your damage. Per the excellent Group Synergy Guide written by Janne and crew, the optimal buff window generally occurs about 8 seconds into the fight, but you're recommending blowing your load in the first 4 seconds.

    A better rotation will open with StS (optional) followed by TC -> 2x At-will -> DS -> SSC (when up) -> LSS -> GW/PG -> GW/PG -> At-will x2/3 -> Repeat

    The rotation just described ensures that your entire stack of self buffs is active for both PG and GW, and tends to line up much better with the 8 second mark for group buffs.
    By experience, i can say that rotation you mentioned is one of the most effectives ones, for dummies and early game that is, at end game, by the time you using LSS with that rotation, all the mobs will be dead.
    At end game, you most likely will have a DC spamming hastening light, so you are less effective if you withhold your hard hitting encounters, my rotation for mobs usually goes like this:
    StS, LSS, TC, at-will, PG, at-will (at this point, lss is wear out), GW, at-will x3, but usually i don't get to use GW, because everything is gone already at that point. For bosses, is the same rotation at the beginning, but for the second row, you priorize Gushing Wound + Plant Growth.
    And remember that you only need a single hit of at-will against 2 mobs to get your stacks of battle crazed.
    and this is why I have problems having any particular rotation in end game stuff. things melt too quick. so you have to just spam whatever you have to get it out there. lol. it also reminded me why plantgrowth goes down first. it's because it has quickest deployment so there is some chance to get damage in before the mob is dead
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    Rincewind CW 18k


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  • divectoredivectore Posts: 149Member Arc User

    divectore said:

    By experience, i can say that rotation you mentioned is one of the most effectives ones, for dummies and early game that is, at end game, by the time you using LSS with that rotation, all the mobs will be dead.
    At end game, you most likely will have a DC spamming hastening light, so you are less effective if you withhold your hard hitting encounters, my rotation for mobs usually goes like this:
    StS, LSS, TC, at-will, PG, at-will (at this point, lss is wear out), GW, at-will x3, but usually i don't get to use GW, because everything is gone already at that point. For bosses, is the same rotation at the beginning, but for the second row, you priorize Gushing Wound + Plant Growth.
    And remember that you only need a single hit of at-will against 2 mobs to get your stacks of battle crazed.

    Outside of maybe the giants in FBI I don't recall mobs existing in this game... I certainly never mentioned them. I was addressing the only fights that matter, single target boss fights. For that, the rotation you described is inferior both mathematically and in practice. The buff window is everything in an endgame scenario.
    If you think people look for dps just to kill 3 bosses, then i don't have anything to talk to you, but, if your current rotation works for you, then go ahead, thats what matters in the end, even if you are losing potential.
  • wdj40wdj40 Posts: 1,954Member Arc User
    edited October 2018

    wdj40 said:

    artifleur said:

    artifleur said:

    With current preview version, Bladestorm will go from 25% chance of 20% damage to 20% chance of 40% damage and still won't work with Piercing Blade and Blade Hurricane. I don't think I'll bother using it.

    That is incorrect. You can get up to 6 Bladestorm procs per at-will if flurry is active. 1 from the initial hit, 2 from the 2 Blade Hurricane procs, and 3 from the 3 associated Piercing Blade procs.
    That's good to know. Thanks.

    At the same time I might just go back to pathfinder if Careful Attack is good enough again.
    I would LOVE to be able to go back to pathfinder
    Pathfinder is still perfectly viable... I still am in both PvE (Trapper) and PvP (Archer)... If I switch to Combat its Stormwarden though.

    But anyhoo even with Careful Attack bugged you can still smash out the DPS... The players that are pure DPS and will come above me in the Paingiver charts are BiS GWF's, a few SW and very rarely a TR. They all get buffed by me as well. But anyhoo Pathfinder is still solid, all my PvE clips lately are still Pathfinder.

    It would just be a bit better if Careful Attack procced properly and I hear they are supposed to be fixing it.

    I disagree. I tried going back to pathfinder for a day. I got owned by a 15000 gwf in content. that wouldnt happen with my combat load out. I tried it again the other day in a hunt and was basically putting out no damage. trapper is not viable imo compared to the damage we can deal with combat.
    Which hunt? I can solo all the 3* with my Pathfinder

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/wdj40/video/61973982 - Ras Manca
    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/wdj40/video/60672746 - Night Terror
    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/wdj40/video/60672782 - Sister of Fury (although a death due to stupid timing on my part and my companion got stuck in a death loop a few times)

    Those were back in September so before I had better gear too, I'll probably do better clips again at some point.

    But yes Stormwarden Combat is good but boring as hell, much prefer Trapper Pathfinder and its still viable :)
    Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only
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  • pitshadepitshade Posts: 3,801Member Arc User
    edited October 2018
    Robin Hood's epic bow duel against Friar Tuck, who can ever forget that?

    Standing well away from the rest of your team is foolish, even in the real world where we aren't using buffers. It's unrealistic and dangerous.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • clericalistclericalist Posts: 558Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    pitshade said:

    Robin Hood's epic bow duel against Friar Tuck, who can ever forget that?



    Standing well away from the rest of your team is foolish, even in the real world where we aren't using buffers. It's unrealistic and dangerous.

    I think of this video when it comes to the kind of combat this game is pushing players into.


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