Confused returning DC needs advice, "Help Me Michela!"

andyy22 · October 2018

I just decided to try to get back into NWO, the last time i played was 2015 and my DC was lvl60 with T2 Prophet Set. After the initial shock that all my gear is pretty much useless, the augment change and new stable buff AD sink, i just grabbed some stuff from the AH and leveled to 70.

Than unfortunately i did read reddit and tried to build Jarek's AC, without really understanding the implications regarding power share and the cost involved. So ofc i ended up with barely breaking 10k il and 23k power/8k recovery, on top my first dungeon run was a frustrating mess.

I than moved into Barovia and oh boy nearly every mob pack is either killing me outright or i need ages to kill anything. Every-time someone stumbles upon me and helps me, i notice that they kill things like 4-10 times faster then myself.

This lead me to the "Help Me Michela!" guide, which helped a lot understanding why my AC is not working for a long time and how to build a DO. Now i did read the TI mod15 notes and it seem to make little sense to farm better DO gear, if after the change DO is at the bottom of PvE groups.

I simply don't have the time/AD to build a viable AC, so whats the advice here? Should i just ignore the "meta" and hope that i still can get into groups after mod15 or maybe i should start a new toon?

PS: I like heal/support classes, so keeping mod15 in mind is there a low cost class/spec that are desired for PvE groups and plays nicely?

pitshade · October 2018

A low IL AC is viable when running with low IL groups because the mitigation is more important than powershare. Dead players deal no damage.

Also, the power numbers needed for a viable endgame AC are based around high level bonding stones and DPS with high levels of power themselves. The equations just aren3 valid for lower geared groups. Typically here, DO wins for damage buffs but AC for mitigation. Even with the DO nerf in m15, that paragon could still be ok in lower geared groups. However, the threshold where AC outperforms DO is a lot lower, meaning that a viable AC build isn't going to be nearly as expensive.

You will want loadouts for each paragon. DO should be your default for soloing. When grouped up, it will probably be AC.

My suggestion, farm the salvage boxes from the m14 campaign store. Try and get gear for DO to speed up your campaign soloing. Armor Pen and Crit gear. Armor Pen until yiu have 85 Defense Ignored (for Barovia) then stack Crit with Power after that. Try and put RP gathering stones in your Utility slots (fey blessing, Dragon Hoard, Quartermaster) as these will help you in the long run. Chest piece should have an enchant that gives HP, Lifesteal and/or Defense.

Notable pieces for DO are Executioner Hat, and Darklord or Seer chest.

For AC loadout, go for gear that gives Recovery foremost and then power. (If you can, get a 15 pt Quick Action mount. to alleviate the Recovery need) Put Darks on the utility slots on this gear. Chest should have enchant defense and HP (or later Black Ice)

Notable AC armor pieces are Executioner Gloves. You can also get Primal Boots for the bonus.

andyy22 · October 2018

Thanks, so i guess i should just ignore the meta talk and just run low il randoms as DO and keep upgrading, until i hit 14-15k il. The funny thing is i still remember running DC as healer in VT with AS, BoH, WoH/FF and i had my hands full at the time

( i really liked the div heal mechanic of FF)

I don't really mind the change to mainly buff/debuff, but after reading the DO guide i had my hopes up to quickly get into endgame stuff again, without breaking the bank or pity invites.

pitshade · October 2018

In lower gear content currently, DO vs AC is situational. Does the party need mitigation more than buffs. Or sometimes either the party is facerolling everything, or you are, and you run your solo powers as DO. It is a judgment call, what do you think smooths out or speeds up the run the most.

The current version of TI was nice for lower geared clerics but ultimately it was bad for the class. I don't like seeing people's investment getting nuked, the devs should try and fix the core issue, that the paragon powers overlap. Regardless, other classes have to gear up to get endgame groups. DCs will still be desirable but it isn't a pass to skip what other classes go through.

And yes, while it is ancient history to kost, pre-mod 5 DC was more fun.

aerhythia · October 2018

Michela's guide is great you shouldn't have problems if you follow the AC guide as well as the jack of all trades non-DPS DO guide. Try to get gear that is relatively easy to acquire like Decaying Habit or Guise of the Wolf clan and Primal chest, gloves and boots from Seals vendor are good enough actually still relatively close to BiS gear. I'd also recommend at some point to spam Merchant Prince skirmish to get campaign currency for Chult (ideally in a premade team or you often gonna be main DPS as cleric), finish Soshenstar and then farm Omu for some of the good rings. Gonna take a few weeks though. Team up for weeklies like Wolfs Den in Barovia. Some mobs & elites are stupid so if you can't nuke them things usually get exponentially more difficult. Since repurpose souls is broken with most enchantments you might want to get a Dread enchantment eventually for survivability. For DO loadout for soloing make sure you get your armor penetration up while usually critical strike is preferred high power as you will get from your AC gear works nearly as good for dealing damage outside of groups.

pitshade's suggestion is good as well but the drops are all RNG. There are also some pieces which are viable for AC builds. On the other hand things will always take time wether they are farmable or dependant on RNG. I just don't like depending on RNG.

To get your stats up as AC you basically want power on your gear, and get as much recovery (for AP gain) as possible from your companion. Make sure you run Holy Fervor (and Hastening Light as the other feat) to boost your AP gain until you feel you don't need it anymore. There's also a 2k power mount in the upcoming Halloween event if you don't have an epic power mount yet.

andyy22 said:
I simply don't have the time/AD to build a viable AC, so whats the advice here? Should i just ignore the "meta" and hope that i still can get into groups after mod15 or maybe i should start a new toon?

Depends. There's not really an early bloomer class anymore, considering the nerfs to DO next mod as you said. Temptation Warlock are relatively popular right now but if you make an SW and enjoy the class you probably want to gear up anyways, in which case the cost are similar to that of an AC. Ideally you could make an OP which also use similar enchants as AC (Radiants for power share) or an GF and play as buff, but in the end you get more out of gearing and playing your Cleric especially if that's the class you prefer to play. Depending on how things work out teams will still run AC and DO for distributing constant buffs and due to the fact that having 2 or 3 low DPS is probably still gonna worse then 2 solid DCs as long as main DPS does their job. Due to the stigma of nerfs expect to be asked to run AC in single DC runs though, I mean I sometimes get asked to play AC in Castle Never where I can one shot bosses myself as DO and no one dies anyways. Tl;dr building a solid, viable AC makes a lot of sense. Also you still have around one month or so to play DO in buff groups until the nerfhammer drops on live which should give you time to figure out what you want to do or to gear up as AC or both. Ymmv but if you're DC and in an active guild and alliance you should be able to get into more runs then you want to run and for every DC there are probably still dozens of DPS and a few tanks who are equally or less geared and in need of a DC.

andyy22 said:
So ofc i ended up with barely breaking 10k il and 23k power/8k recovery, on top my first dungeon run was a frustrating mess.

When I geared up I focussed on Kessel and Shores due to them basically being mini dungeons (only one boss) as well as having a free chest.

pitshade · October 2018

It's not as much RNG just getting starter gear, which is what I was suggesting. Darklord chest is great for running dailies but there a lot of other pieces you can use. The salvage boxes are currently a great deal because you can salvage anything that isn't useful to you.

aerhythia · October 2018

Yeah that's true guess I'm just frustrated not getting the exact gear I want

. Many of the gear is indeed very serviceable and if not salvagable as you said.

thefiresidecat · October 2018

you're not in too deep yet. if I were you i'd go templock. although who knows next mod they may be nerfed too :P although it does take awhile to level up a toon by the time you're viable for end game stuff we may be on to the next mod where they promise to make the DO great again. personally though at this point I wouldn't invest in dc.

rjc9000 · October 2018

aerhythia#3255 said:
Michela's guide

Michela to yobanaide, watashi namae wa rjc!

andyy22 said:
Now i did read the TI mod15 notes and it seem to make little sense to farm better DO gear, if after the change DO is at the bottom of PvE groups.

I simply don't have the time/AD to build a viable AC, so whats the advice here?

PS: I like heal/support classes, so keeping mod15 in mind is there a low cost class/spec that are desired for PvE groups and plays nicely?

Stay with DC, maybe pick up a Templock/Afkadin if you want a wider roster of supports (you could argue that buff HR beats Templock, but HR doesn't heal).

The DC's basic kit nearly doubles teammates' outgoing damage (83.7%, obtained from 3xEmpBtS/Brilliant Divine Glow/Hallowed Ground). The basic DC kit eclipses the team DPS increase provided by any other class, throw in either of the paragon specific buffs and other parts of a typical build (ex: debuffs) and it is no contest.

Though solo AC is the strongest option for increasing the team's DPS, that assumes that the DC can double daily, which many DCs cannot, whether it be due to skill problems or gear issues.

I would not discount a good DO if good ACs are unavailable.

andyy22 said:

Should i just ignore the "meta" and hope that i still can get into groups after mod15 or maybe i should start a new toon?

Take your approach in small steps.

Don't attempt to run castle monologue or deathbabby immediately, that will not end well. Take the time to try learning how to buff/work around mechanics in dungeons like CN, FBI, Spellplague. Learn how to run a DC, since there is a clear difference in a run that has a DC with a brain vs. a DC that is part of team potato.

I would also suggest to only run with guild/friends, maybe alliance if you know your alliance isn't bad (read: not ran like a zerg channel). These groups will likely not care as much if you run DO vs. AC, and more importantly, these teams will be more willing to teach you everything step by step.

Stay the hell away from most zerg channels, since many of those channels promote sloppy play and will learn very little on how to run DC well.

As for making builds, I do not have else anything to say that hasn't already been said about an AC build being your eventual endgame goal.

vorphied · October 2018

rjc9000 said:

aerhythia#3255 said:
Michela's guide

Michela to yobanaide, watashi namae wa rjc!

sou ieba, Michela tte iu hito dare?

andyy22 · October 2018

Thanks all for the tips, i guess i will stay DO for now at least and see how things end up in mod15. I still need to get me a guild, since i don't even remember the name of my old one. It also seems those are now "needed" to get higher IL, which is f... strange, but its PWE after all so i'm not surprised.

I will just fool around a bit, try to get to il 12k and start easy on the endgame stuff.

I could use some extra advice please, since i have massive problems doing any quest in barovia. Every random lvl 73 mob pack takes like 1-2 minutes to kill. So i need a solo build specifically to-do those daily quests there. What feats/skills should i use and given that i now only have a DO buff item set, what changes should i aim for that has the best bang for the buck, assuming i only have like 100k AD left for this solo dps set?

PS: The most annoying change is the bonding stuff, i think its f.... stupid to put this much buff power in the companions system, which not only need the ultra expansive enchants, but also profit this much from being legendary. I remember being pissed that i had to buy a augment via zen back than, but that's nothing compared to the current system.

pitshade · October 2018

I posted some things in this thread some time ago.

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1241696/solo-dc-for-dailies-weeklies

For a DO soloing loadout, allocate points to STR and WIS. A Greater Wisdom belt is cheap also.

Heroic feats shoot for max points in Toughness, Weapon Mastery and Bountiful Fortune. Healing Action and Initiate of the Faith aren't bad choices. Healing Action ought to increase AP gain from Divine Glow but basically just spend the rest of your heroic points. *avoid battlewise, holy resolve and templars domain.*

Paragon feats are Righteous. You can take pretty much everything *except* Living Fire and Piercing Light. Alternatively you might shoot to get Gift of the God in Faithful by skipping Power of the Sun and Weapons of Light and juggling points in Fire of the Gods and Condemning Gaze. You end up with pointless healing feats doing that.

pitshade · October 2018

Bondings were a bad design decision IMO but it was we are stuck with. As long as Companions gift transfers power share and we have linear stat returns, they are really the only viable option. The price of the stones dropped a lot a year ago when they redid yhe refinement system. They will be dirt cheap at Winterfest, free if you do gifting parties.

andyy22 · October 2018

pitshade said:
The price of the stones dropped a lot a year ago when they redid yhe refinement system. They will be dirt cheap at Winterfest, free if you do gifting parties.

Oh so 1M per R13 is already the "reduced" price? What did they change in the refinement system, feels similar to when i left?

pitshade · October 2018

Rank 13 didn't even exist when they redid refinement. I was referring to something that a player would more likely be starting with, rank 7 or 8.

A year ago in the mod 12b Swords of Chult release, they streamlined refinement. RP items now convert to a currency on your chare sheet. There are no longer types of RP (resonant, thaum etc...) You can use most equipment drops as RP and towards any ryoe of upgrade. Value wise, it is always Double RP, most items take half the RP as before. Ranking up enchants from 7 to 10 no longer require a duplicate enchant to be consumed. Downside is that feeders and recycling artifact gear is pointless.

Not sure when you left, if bondings are new but the current RP system is similar to anything else.

andyy22 · October 2018

pitshade said:
Not sure when you left, if bondings are new but the current RP system is similar to anything else.

Nah i noticed the new RP system and that i can refine equip now. Until you mentioned it i forgot about the different types of RP and that you needed matching for max. refines. I meant the huge amounts of RP you have to dump into items and the shady ward system, has not changed.

I remember back than, everyone was running around with this swirly head augment, which came only from the Zen store.

aerhythia · October 2018

Hmm, you'd also need good companion gear and enchants to really benefit from bondings. Rank 8 azure on comp even with maxed bonding is barely more then ~1% higher critical chance. So I dunno which would be the best for buck. And for critical strike and armor penetration current gear has a lot of it, I think I got over 60% armor penetration and critical strike without comp (with 5x legendary bonus but it doesn't add that much) . That's why I recommended to get gear that is relatively easy and inexpensive to acquire first. Vistani coif and surcoat are actually really good stat-wise already. To get more Barovian coins I think it's best to join Heroic Encounter trains or hunts, which means you would be in a group anyways. Also as I said if you got a weapon enchantment other then Dread or Vorpal you never ever get proper procs from repurposed souls healing. Heroics and elites in Barovia are still somewhat challenging for higher geared, squishier classes if you can't nuke them within seconds like high DPS classes / builds, not to mention DC is basically the only class which has to actually aim at enemies (or the ground under enemies lol) so you can't simply spam your hardest hitting encounters. You'd probably want at least 70% armor penetration and 50% critical strike (but power should be equally good as upping critical strike when soloing unless you need repurpose souls or using a Dread enchantment), then things should be causing much less problems. The goal is probably to be able to do as much damage as possible, place Hallowed Ground if AP is full (lasts 15 seconds) then a barrage of Divine chains, other encounters then get your Divinity back and repeat. Also due to how the Righteous capstone works (until next mod where it will be fixed) you basically only have 25 seconds to keep that sweet 40% damage boost. If you can't kill things within 25 seconds it's no wonder things get pretty tough.

rjc9000 said:
Michela to yobanaide, watashi namae wa rjc!

I know!

pitshade · October 2018

Just get armor pen for 85% RI and take what Crit and Power you get from gear/lower level enchants. This isn't a dedicated DPS build that actually needs crit. You want to debuff the mobs, spam encounter powers and then rebuild divinity. As long as you don't over pull (like all of the Taken HE) you can just facetank the mobs and blow them up with repeated Divine and normal Dauntings.

pitshade · October 2018

https://imgur.com/a/yxYCrDh

These are the feats I use soloing, BTW

thefiresidecat · October 2018

hmmm so buff hr is going to be better than temp or cw for buffing now? well then. I guess even if ppl aren't looking for do's I'll be ok. is the buff hr just a lss hr or some new combination of things with the rework?

aerhythia · October 2018

Yup I guess LSS, and reworked Pathfinder feated Hawkeye for ~20% group damage buff to encounters, also since you give up a lot of damage to have these two up you probably also run another encounter providing debuff.

I guess you could even play pure DPS on AoE and then situationally buff encounter-heavy DPS classes during boss fights. Not sure if this is as good as it sounds on paper though.

Confused returning DC needs advice, "Help Me Michela!"

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