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How some of The major changes to some classes will change everything

Example do dc loosing the only class feature useless for them. But replace with something Else. Can dc still be used on groups?

Tr loosing %power from certain powers and feats. How it will change Tr?

Any other major changes that changes the complete Play style of certain class?

Comments

  • habeeb#2206 habeeb Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    What is everyones view of this?

    Dont just look at nerfs. Try look at all other changes too and imagine how and if it can be used.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    lorun2009 said:

    In my opinion this changes will be overall good for endgame players and content... Why? Because dungeons are way to EASY with all this buffs and changing one of the best buffer (DC DO) is good option to deal with that.

    Last TR changes made him to powerfull... I was many times in CODG where TR killed boss so fast that we didnt even sweat a little bit. And in my opinion TR will be still good DPS but not OP :) But this is only my opionion and im really happy that they change so much in module 15 :)

    Every DPS class that wasn't completely dead (CW and SW) could melt Atropal. It's not even hard. People did it in M13 ffs.

    TR isn't "good DPS" anymore. It's not "passable DPS". HAMSTER me, it's not even "DPS".
  • lorun2009lorun2009 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 46 Arc User
    But not in first phase :)

    Ppl said same thing about SW... That Sw isnt dps anymore but the truth is that they simple cant play. I spoke already with my TR friend and he says that this is a huge nerf but still TR will be a good dps so i will stay with my opinion :)
  • mirlegrismirlegris Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    Not as good as others, and that's all is needed to make the meta kill the utility of the class in endgame content.

    "LF1M HDPS for CODG"
    -+1, TR 16K.
    -Nope Sorry.
    "LF1M HDPS GWF or CW"
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    Here are my thoughts on mod 15 updates and other events...

    Communication is lacking with Crytpic. Examples include the updates to classes. A simple one paragraph to the community through all social media outlets would have put players a bit more at ease with these changes. Without a clear and precise communication explaining the long term goal for the game for class balancing really hit hard for many players.

    I know I would have taken things a bit easier for the CW if the devs did something like this...

    Title: Class Rebalancing - Starting with mod 15

    We like to share some good news with you all though it will be a long road to achieve our end goal. We are expanding each class and the role system in the game. All classes will be able to q up as two different roles eventually. For mod 15 we will be starting this process to allow some classes to play outside of their normal box. It is a long and extended process to hit our end goal, so please be with us through these changes. We understand that there will be pain points along the way and we will do our best to address these as we move forward with our long term plan.

    This one paragraph would have had a better effect on the community. Not having this is a big miss for all the class rebalance changes in mod 15. The lack of communication has had a negative effect on this game and from a financial standpoint it will hurt their bottom line. So for future preview release and for anything that will have a impact to the player base please provide clear and precise communication. Without this you only hurt yourself as a company and your long term revenue.

    Next up is the actual changes.

    1) DO DC - if you are making this the DPS side of the DC you need to make PoD a pure DPS ability without any buffing or debuffing. Make it a single target high burst ability for the DC. Make the other class feature for DO improve something else so that the DC can be a real DPS, otherwise revert the class back to its form self.

    2) TR - I went through with a friend and checked out the changes and after respecting the class is not as bad as it seems. You need to respect and you will be fine. It is a bit weaker than now on live but not to the level that many are making it out. With a respect the damage only drops slightly. On a side note, TR now have a debuff/buff build that you can create - so it will allow you to get into groups as a buffer/debuffer.

    3) SW - The changes should help and overall it looks like the devs are trying to resolve the 2 year ongoing issue for this class and about time.

    4) GWF did not get buff...if the GWF is a Destroyer it is exactly the same as it is now, no buff. The other paragon feat path were adjusted and now there hopefully will be more options for a GWF.

    5) HR - some minor tweaks but the fix that was needed seems to be missing. Hopefully the devs got it and simply missed the part of communicating it to us.

    6) CW so you reduce the damage bonus of chilling presence by 1/2 and than increase the damage of powers by 20%. Now just this alone is roughly a 4% damage loss. Than you increase the damage of Arcane Mastery by 1% but fix the bugs of two feats which actually is a bigger drop in damage for a CW. The reality is, all of the fixes you made the CW is still 18-24% below where they are now damage wise with this fix and the CW on live is the worst DPS class in the game. That is just the damage side. Now onto the paragon path, new feats are garbage just saying. The changes to the capstone for Oppressor is inferior to the prior way the capstone was setup, Thaum - well who will be a DPS single the class is taking a big to its already low damage, and Renegade I found that the new buffs are junk and not really worth it and hurt how often Chaotic Fury proc.

    7) OP - you are making them stronger in damage. I went into Chult, Omu and Brovia as a 13K OP and had no issues in those zones. I took things out relatively easy. I like the change but at the same time I can only really justify it if other classes damage are balanced out.

    My concern is that DO DC will be DPS but not able to Q as a DPS. TR damage will drop and will not be taken into groups even as a debuff/buffer. GWF, HR and SW be the go to DPS. Templocks will be the go to 2nd buffer leaving out TR and CW. HR will be the 3rd buffer or hybrid DPS for groups.

    This means that DO DC, TR and CW will not be invited and will be wearing cheerleaders outfit while HR, SW and GWF get into groups and run content just find as DPS or buffers.

    Mod 15 is going to hurt game population. Some end game players already have 2-3 character and a few are in the group that is negatively impacted. I know my DC and CW are not liking these changes as I main my DC as both AC and DO but tend to run DO mostly. I know plenty of TR ready to put their daggers away and walk, same with DOs and even many more CW (which many already left the game).

    I hope you make some positive changes over the next few weeks and if not, I guess I will not be getting into any group any time soon on my main.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Can´t tell about CW and TR.
    Fury warlock is not gonna have a significant boost in the sum and depending on bugfixes (boH) the path will not be able to compete vs. good performing GWF, dpsGF, TR? or Hunter in mod 15, only viable dps spec will be Soulbinder in a 4xbuffer group, but behind other classes I think. No matter what others tell, they simply did not compete with a top GWF or TR till now, 100% sure.
    About Damnation, I am curious what those buffs will look like in endcontent, might be competetive and a way to go for in PVP and PVE.
    Predominant classes will be prot OP (devo combined with tact GF), AC/DC, templock, GWF/Hunter, maybe mof/buffhunter.... Damnation locks? TR? not sure about that.
    So you can run every class in endcontent, GF will be either a hdsp GF (pain in the a.. but cn be rewarding) or a Tactition/buffer, combined with devo OP, wich is a pretty good option also.

    About TR we will see how dps will look like, if they suck they will be the big loser in mod 15.
    I thought TR should get a rework and a way to be somehow "more handy" in endcontent, because I witnessed so many player that were not able to pull any dps out of that class, even being the top dps in mod 14. Running beside other TR, that dealt >3 times the ammount of damage than others indicates that there might be a problem about the class.

    About OP, can´t see the need to be pushed in damage honestly, I run OP at 13k and the prot setup handles everything doing daily stuff, there must be a bunch of hardly underperforming player running OP´s if there were many complaints about OP dps.
    A class, tanky like that needs no dps buff honestly, but maybe cryptic want's OP to be on par with dsp GF's.. who knows.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    Can´t tell about CW and TR.
    Fury warlock is not gonna have a significant boost in the sum and depending on bugfixes (boH) the path will not be able to compete vs. good performing GWF, dpsGF, TR? or Hunter in mod 15, only viable dps spec will be Soulbinder in a 4xbuffer group, but behind other classes I think. No matter what others tell, they simply did not compete with a top GWF or TR till now, 100% sure.
    About Damnation, I am curious what those buffs will look like in endcontent, might be competetive and a way to go for in PVP and PVE.
    Predominant classes will be prot OP (devo combined with tact GF), AC/DC, templock, GWF/Hunter, maybe mof/buffhunter.... Damnation locks? TR? not sure about that.
    So you can run every class in endcontent, GF will be either a hdsp GF (pain in the a.. but cn be rewarding) or a Tactition/buffer, combined with devo OP, wich is a pretty good option also.

    About TR we will see how dps will look like, if they suck they will be the big loser in mod 15.
    I thought TR should get a rework and a way to be somehow "more handy" in endcontent, because I witnessed so many player that were not able to pull any dps out of that class, even being the top dps in mod 14. Running beside other TR, that dealt >3 times the ammount of damage than others indicates that there might be a problem about the class.

    About OP, can´t see the need to be pushed in damage honestly, I run OP at 13k and the prot setup handles everything doing daily stuff, there must be a bunch of hardly underperforming player running OP´s if there were many complaints about OP dps.
    A class, tanky like that needs no dps buff honestly, but maybe cryptic want's OP to be on par with dsp GF's.. who knows.

    Please read my post. If the devs are planning to allow all classes to play two roles, the paragon path selected will determine which role you will be able to q into content as. If the devs are heading this direction without sharing it to us, than Hellbringer maybe the healer path and soulbinder the DPS path. If that is the way they are proceeding and not sharing than yes it will feel like the SW is not as good as it could be. The same can be said for CW, TR, etc...that is why my biggest gripe is not about what they are doing but how they lack the ability to communicate their long term goal for class balancing. And if they have no long term goal than mod 15 class balancing should be removed and they should start over for mod 16 and make sure they communicate better or there will be another mass exodus of players.

    I have a full alliance ready to jump ship from NWO and it is a very active and busy alliance. Around 800 players and about half spend around $100-200 in the past 2 months. So that is a big hit to Cryptic bottom line. And my understanding is that the leaders are considering helping out members who don't have PS+ but are willing to play ESO, etc...

    If the devs communicated something like I wrote in my initial post in this thread I would be more on board with these changes but without that post my desire and willingness to stick it out is very low to the point where my time in NWO will be very limited.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    Honestly, those balance issues are from minor interest in my eyes and the hipe and outcry is allways the same, seen that 100 times.
    The more interesting question is: "What is cryptic gonna do to keep player ingame before they die from bordomness ?"
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    lorun2009 said:

    But not in first phase :)

    Ppl said same thing about SW... That Sw isnt dps anymore but the truth is that they simple cant play. I spoke already with my TR friend and he says that this is a huge nerf but still TR will be a good dps so i will stay with my opinion :)

    Yes, your TR friend is more competent and knowledgeable than literally every one of the top TRs that says that TR is pretty much dead, gj bud.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    We will see who is dead or not the moment some player come over with builds after doing testing a while.
    Actually all I saw where some small clips player posted in Forum where one TR was bashing a dummy or a dragon, stating that the class is dead.
    Once there were theorycrafter who published informations after >1 month intensive testing on preview, not after one day.
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Honestly if this stops double DCing then it's probably the healthiest change so far, opening an extra spot on the group make up will make grouping twice as easy for dps/support dps classes.

    It would have been better if they made the buffs from DO and AC non-stackable, but that would be a big rework to accomplish it.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
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  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Member Posts: 537 Arc User
    lorun2009 said:

    In my opinion this changes will be overall good for endgame players and content... Why? Because dungeons are way to EASY with all this buffs and changing one of the best buffer (DC DO) is good option to deal with that.

    Last TR changes made him to powerfull... I was many times in CODG where TR killed boss so fast that we didnt even sweat a little bit. And in my opinion TR will be still good DPS but not OP :) But this is only my opionion and im really happy that they change so much in module 15 :)

    End game might be way to easy for a small, tiny percentage of players. For most end game is not easy, for many its hard to even get there (my daughter quit because of the post 70 grind wall that she did not find fun at all).

    If you want to make end game more difficult for elites, put in a easy/moderate/hard scale and buff the rewards for each.

  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 932 Arc User
    edited September 2018



    Mod 15 is going to hurt game population. Some end game players already have 2-3 character and a few are in the group that is negatively impacted. I know my DC and CW are not liking these changes as I main my DC as both AC and DO but tend to run DO mostly. I know plenty of TR ready to put their daggers away and walk, same with DOs and even many more CW (which many already left the game).

    The reason CW's left the game in the masses are actually being addressed here. They left cause they did not sign up as an debuffer but as a DPS. Cryptic seems to have listened and are increasing the DPS. Initial Preview testing on mid and starter CW Clearly shows that, even a 16-17k, CW have a dps increase. This might even get some of those that left to return. As someone always critical to Cryptic I do not think they should be faulted for trying to make a useless class useful again.
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    It has been 5 YEARS since last new class this is getting ridiculous
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Please do master/normal version of dungeons. This way content for all MOD 19 have nothing new for vast majority of player base. Giving an EVENT is not same thing as permanent content for non BIS. As we suggested in CDP
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • darkzod#9528 darkzod Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    I don't know what the developers are up to. They don't do class balance, anyway.

    GWF are even more overpowering. I can't understand it! SW have been kept low for years as DPS . TR and CW are slightly reduced. GF, by the way, still exists or have they been forgotten? I think the favorite of the developers are the GWFs and OPs.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User

    About OP, can´t see the need to be pushed in damage honestly, I run OP at 13k and the prot setup handles everything doing daily stuff, there must be a bunch of hardly underperforming player running OP´s if there were many complaints about OP dps.
    A class, tanky like that needs no dps buff honestly, but maybe cryptic want's OP to be on par with dsp GF's.. who knows.

    I doubted that and I too was a bit surprised they upped the OPs damage. I personally thought my paladin hit just fine for the content I was playing on either loadout, though it was easier as prot. Don't get me wrong, personally I appreciate the boost but I too didn't feel that we needed it. Only thing I can think of is that they ran content as light- specced Devo which has all the hitting power of an angry house fly. Can't die but can take what feels like an eternity to kill things. Maybe they boosted it to give those who run as light a boost but had to do it overall as there are almost no paragon specific damaging abilities (Prot -BO and SS being the only two I can think of). Can't boost one without boosting the other I think. My two coppers.
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