I never encountered so much elitism as under this thread. I really feel sorry for you guys as you are figthing to keep your virtual muscles to be the biggest in the game and to keep everyone out of your backyard.
Glad I had my eyes opened. I thought endgame players in this game are the ones who should help others, I thought this community is cool. Well, now I see it's not. I guess making some game materials doesn't mean you are a better human being, but there are people here who consider themselves superior.
Happy life to all of you. I'll just stick with "plebe" in my guild, who are not worthy of the content which should be exclusive for few people in this game. I'll try to drag their HAMSTER through dungeons, even though we will propably fail. But hey - they are a decent human beings and not total jerks.
Have fun and keep your dungeons to yourself. Us, the unworthy players, we will shut up and go do some campaigns as you commanded to us.
No more response from me. Peace out.
I was avoiding responding to this but you know what, I will humor you:
I never encountered so much elitism as under this thread. I really feel sorry for you guys as you are fighting to ruin the game for others purely out of self interest with no consideration for players who like content other then what you want.
Glad I had my eyes opened. I thought midgame players in this game are the ones who should be the happiest with the state of the game right now as they still have content to run, I thought this community is cool. Well, now I see it's not. I personally feel like not being able to complete all the content doesn't mean you are a better human being, but there are people here who consider themselves superior for that reason.
Happy life to all of you. I'll just stick with my friends, who do not deserve to have any content designed that challenges and engages us since it all must be for you. I'll try to drag myself through boring content with them, even though we have no interest in running any of it and only play because we enjoy running stuff together. But hey, at least they are a decent human beings and not total jerks.
Have fun and keep your dungeons to yourself. Us, the unworthy players, we will shut up and go do dungeons which are as easy as campaigns as you commanded to us.
No more response from me. Peace out.
See, I can do that too. Now try making an argument that appeals to facts and reasoning instead of emotions, because trying to be emotionally manipulative in an argument is a poor argument to begin with, especially in this case where the same argument can be made from both sides.
I don't go around saying, "PVP should be removed from the game" despite the fact that I never play it. Nor do I go around saying, "The foundry should be removed from the game." If either of those areas receive some development time, good for them, it caters towards those parts of the community, even if it is not for me. So, stop trying to make all the content in the game casual, just because it suits your personal agenda.
If everyone had your mindset where they expected to be carried then nobody would ever complete anything because nobody would work to learn the content. Let that sink in for a moment.
Sometimes Fab, its not about argument. Its about solving the problem. People post this kind of topic up here to find answer to their problem and not to argue with anyone. U might be good at theorycrafting and math but when it comes to socializing and problem solving, u have much to learn from @jase2cool. A problem can be a real pain to solve when people aren't here to solve it but to argue. Just saying.
So you plan to solve your personal problem at the expense of other people's enjoyment? That is the reason there is argument, the existence of resistance in the first place. The fact of the matter is, a forum is a place meant for the exchanging of ideas and sometimes, people will have differing opinions on the same topic. You want to solve your problem without any disagreement? Fine, do it in a way that does not create problems for others and then you won't see argument.
I never claimed I was good at social interactions, in fact, I will openly admit I am bad at them, but you are deluding yourself if you think I am bad at problem solving. Just because I do not agree with the solution (or even the problem for that matter) you propose. How do you think the optimal way to do stuff gets found?
Problem = find most efficient way to run content. Solution = do this.
This is what I do. That is not what you are doing. What you are doing is inventing a new problem to solve your own, which is not the right way to go. You presented your perspective, it clashes with mine. Now, stop trying to force the same "solution" to the problem when it is clearly flawed and is the root cause of disagreement.
And no, tiered content won't work out well, as already pointed out, but I will summarize again why: 1) It takes up a lot of development time to do correctly, since some mechanics do not scale up/down well. There are 2 types of difficulty, artificial difficulty and designed difficulty. Artificial being when the content is hard because you just raised or lowered some numbers and designed is hard because the content was implicitly made with mechanics that challenge the player. In general, the first is not fun or engaging and the second is fun and engaging. There is no way to scale down the second type to players who want easier content, it is, by its nature implicitly difficult and the first type is unsatisfying. That leaves the only recourse as designing different content for different players. 2) Players will always run the content with the best AD per hour ratio. If the easier version gives better rewards then the harder version, guess what gets cut out. This happens in pretty much every game I have played with tiered content as well.
How about instead of asking that all content be made available to you (which obviously comes at the expense of someone else's enjoyment) you ask for something specific to be developed towards your particular tastes. Nothing is stopping you from doing so, but asking for everything to be for you is obviously going to be met with resistance because it is taking something away from someone else in the process.
Hey you are free to disagree with my solution like jase do. I m fine with it. But your problem is, its not that u disagree with the solution. Its that u are ignoring the problem and actually promoting it. There are some people are left out of the content and your answer to it is that they should be left out to make people like you feel exclusive? But anyway, Jase has already address it and I have nothing more to complain. Thanks Jase for staying cool on this matter.
I Think, that you dont get the argument of the 'hardcore' players.
They dont want to exclude anyone. It is not like some rich ppl asking for higher property values, so they dont have to share their view with the rabble.
This is more like, some ppl play ticktacktoe and some ppl like playing chess. You can dumb down chess to a ticktacktoe level and still call it chess, but it will be ticktacktoe. A chess player would not want to play this version of 'chess', it would be boring. Chess players are not excluding the ticktacktoe players out of some kind of elitism. Everyone can learn to play chess.
The argument against tiered dungeon is, as far as I see it, that there is no way, to make chess ticktacktoe player friendly, so the Devs would have to create a third game, that looks like chess, but is as simple as ticktacktoe. While possible, it would leech at the resources of the company, just to make some players feel included, while in fact, they are still not able to play chess.
This might be an oversimplification of the problem, but might help some ppl understand the problem here.
naw, i don't think that's a good analogy. In the past we had n and m versions. this particular complaint wasn't around then. everyone was excited for new content. even ppl who couldn't normally do the content were eventually able to because they were able to learn the mechanics *even if slowly) thru the N version.
the problem is there is no training ground for the people that need a little extra help. all they need to do is make two versions. one with the same mechanics but less punishment for getting it wrong and the full strength ball buster. and everyone is happy
So how does adding a N version of a dungeon that is MECHANICALLY IDENTICAL, but with a bit lower HP, DR, and damage take anything away from anyone? You mean like how nDemo took away from people running mDemo back in Mod 8? Oh wait, that's right, it didn't. You must be talking about how nSVA took away from folks running mSVA. Oops, that didn't happen either.
How much extra dev time would it take away to drop dungeon HP, DR, and damage by 15-20%? Heck, maybe just drop the lvl to 72. What about if at the same time, you got a "Legendary" version too? Would that make having a Normal version ok? The way this convo is going though, I doubt it. It seems like more of a philosophical objection to anyone having access to content if they don't play in the exact same way you do.
I just keep seeing deflection. It doesn't matter the complaint or idea for improvement: - "Let's improve CWs." -> "CWs are already amazing! I saw one once!" - "Let's make dungeons easier." -> "Dungeons are already too easy!" - "Fair enough, let's add Normal dungeons." -> "No one would have anything to work for!" - "Give Normal dungeons lesser rewards." -> "People just need to L2P and make some friends!" - "Normal dungeons would give people a way to 'L2P'." -> "No one would ever learn from nerfed mechanics!" - "Keep the mechanics, lower the numbers." -> "Dungeons are already too easy!" - "So you've said, that why you'd have a 'N' and a 'M' version." -> "No one would have anything to work towards." - "We've already been over that..." -> "Look! Squirrel!!!"
If all else fails, the default assumption becomes that the only people that want any changes or difficulty options AT ALL, are 12yr olds that just bought their first lvl70 and want to SMASH ENDGAME NAOW!!
I'm sorry, but I'm tired of this whole thing, and I'm tired of being overly polite in the face of anyone who complains being indirectly called noobs that need to l2p solely because we're more interested in "playing the game", than in "playing the game engine" and "playing the playerbase".
Oh yeah, and "multiplying buffs are the root of all evil."
This thread is rather confusing, even though I have read every post. I would like to add a completely different perspective, that sort of goes into a third direction. It is not about challenging end-game content, nor about normal or master level dungeons, nor about class balance. Perhaps this suggestion has been made before, in this thread or another. If so, I apologize.
One of the best things I liked about Neverwinter when I started playing in 2013 was the manner in which the dungeons linked in progression. Each dungeon dropped a full piece of gear, that you would need in order to 'advance' to the next stage. T1 dungeons dropped T1 gear, T2 dropped T2 and so on (dread vault excepted, but I still loved that dungeon). The campaign progression up to the point of the dungeon would get that person able to play the lowest dungeons, and then, after running with guild mates or friends through an agreed upon drop (I remember the problems with this...I am not suggesting a return to this), you could start to progress. Items were completely unbound, so you could sell the dropped gear (this changed in Malabog and Dread Ring) for real AD, and perhaps bypass the advancement with AD (pay to go faster). Generally speaking, advancement through the campaign prepared you to run the lowest dungeons, followed by the higher dungeons later. Then, end game content was linear, or a matter of going back and targetting that one area that you still wanted for improvement.
The problem I see with Neverwinter now is an inconsistent and variable reward system in relation to dungeon progression. The matter is incredibly complex and confusing. On the one hand, if you get into a Barovia hunt (getting even good gear from the 250 barovia coin box), you can immediately farm 540 IL gear and have a decent Artifact MH and OH with Vistani from the campaign. Also, if you farm River District Heroics OR Dread Ring OR any demonic (never done alone), you can farm decent rings for your character. So, opening certain campaigns speeds up the process. You can gear up on SOME things that readily available. You can proceed through all the campaigns linearly, going from the easiest to the hardest to get the boons and increase your abilities in a party. But the issue is that the dungeons are no longer part of the progression. Some dungeons over-reward based on the cost IN TIME to run. Get a more BIS group, go faster, get more drops. Hit the 100k AD limit faster, and then...twiddle your thumbs. Sometimes you get drops that you can sell. Sometimes you get blue insignia that you can use to get mount bonuses. Events provide epic mounts. Dungeons sometimes drop companions and artifacts. But the thing is, none of it is linear. For some things, you need 5 mounts with 5 bonuses and good bonding stones on a companion that is adequately geared and levelled up. The thing is, the fast way to get these is through zen and/or Lockbox opening. The long route is via RNG or the 100k max. But still, there is no logical progression.
And because there is no linear progression in campaigns, you can skip around to the part that gives you the most bang for you buck (or time). And then, because you are in those areas, like Barovia doing hunts with 540 gear, if you are newer player, you might think its time to try out...that new dungeon. Because the whole game is not linear, the expectation is NOT linear. The only thing that seems to be linear is: the newest dungeon will be the HARDEST. So, non linear game progression with LINEAR dungeon difficult equals a mess. Its like jumping a line that is moving faster, only to find at the end a big black hole that sucks in the line. But the alternative is to wait and do it the long way OR, as I think the whole stategy is, pay to get those little amenities that will complete the build faster.
So, even though my suggestion is NOT perfect, I would like to see a return to LINEAR PROGRESSION in the entirety of the campaigns and dungeons. If one creates the expectation of improvement by non linear game instances in campaigns, and then has LINEAR dungeon difficulty, the results are exactly what one sees in this thread.
I have little hope that this would happen, and I very much expect disagreement on this point. But the fun of the original design was that you actually were prepared for the next dungeon up because you had completed the previous ones. It made sense.
I have to disagree with linear progression. The current content are of linear progression. It is what lead to the current problem and in long run it will be more and more obvious. That's because ilevel will be getting bigger as the more mod are added and more powerful gear are introduced to keep player attracted to the game. U might think there is nothing wrong with it as I, myself did support that idea once but my thoughts are changed with recent mod. Here are 2 of my thoughts about the cons of linear progression.
1st, it creates a gap between ilevel which cause new player, returning player or casuals trying to catch up with the game. U cant blame them for being wanting to do end game either. That's where everybody is at. New player are gonna leave, when they have to go through all the campaign, which are gonna pile up as mod go by, to play with the crowds. That's why, Cryptic is trying to close the gap by putting in 500iL gear in hunts and campaign, like u say, creates the whole mess with linear progression. Even if they put in 500iL gear, those player still have problem with end game because of missing boons, enchantment and gaming experience. That's what lead to current problem. People feeling left out. They are equipped with end game gear but not able to play end game content. Tong and cradle is a good example. Then Cryptic make CR easier ( which I agree is a bad solution cryptic made to please lower end player) and the endgamer complain. But then, if cryptic doesn't close the gap and provide people with 500iL stuff, people wont stay for long as the road to end game seem unending as more mod are added. Linear progression is a problem as time goes by. U wont feel it back pre mod 6 as the gap isn't that big as it is now.
2nd, is the reason I got bored with the game and has the similar feeling with people that think current content is too easy. Have u ever wonder how mob die so fast in leveling dungeon that it turn those activity into mind numbing grind? In mod 9, etos was fun and CN is challenging, but malabog is too easy that its boring. But in mod 12, Malabog is like a leveling dungeon, etos is mind numbing easy, CN is like what etos was and FBI is like what CN once was. This thing will go on as more mod added and dungeon difficulty increase. It creates a situation where player of different iLevel only enjoy a certain content. Thats when I thought of an idea.
Multi difficulty option. Ever wanting to play eTOS at Tong level of difficulty? Ever wonder some dungeon that u love got obsolete and wish it could be made at endgame difficulty? Do u miss the 1-3, 3-6 days in valindra tower? With these option available, u can revisit past content with end game difficulty. Its what old game like Lotro are doing. They allow lvl 100 player to play a level 20 dungeon at level 100 difficulty (or 120 difficulty if people wants challenge). It also solve the 1st problem with ilevel difference. Now player of each group has broader selection in their game. Be it causal, new or hardcorer.
If its progression your are worried about, as I have already mention before and is done in other MMO with multilevel difficulty, U place loot behind it. U want the loot? u have to progress. U have to do it at harder difficulty. U want a level 100 item? u play the dungeon at level100. U wanna farm UEM for AD? u do at harder difficulty for better drop rates. To play at harder difficulty, player need to equip with better enchantment, boon and gear.
That's what I m trying to deliver in this thread all along. Why some people in this thread are trying to quote me with statement like, making content easier will bored me etc, really puzzle me. Multi difficulty option does not make content easy.
The answer may not be exactly the same but it may give you an idea about the reason why I like SS Thauma more than any other recommended builds of @thefabricant 's document. I tried them all, but none of them makes more fun to me than the SS Thauma build. *shrug*
@therealprotex I asked "why" because the play-style exactly the same (minus Spell Twisting) which I already said you could take if you wanted to. If there is some difference between Thaum and Opp SS CWs then sure, I understand why one might feel more fun. However, since they are played identical, I don't see how one of them being "more fun" is an option.
Cryptic apparently has created a not so small problem for some time now, the new content is too hard for a lot of players as it seems.
Sorry if I misinterpreted what you are saying, but this is where the idea is coming from. I understand that your main point is, you should be able to queue for an "easier" Castle Ravenloft, and that your build isn't getting invited to groups. However, one big part of this game is adapting yourself (build, etc.) to the changes of the game. All builds aren't going to be viable at all times. That is a good thing, it adds an entire dimension to the game that doesn't exist in others. Almost every significant change, to the game or your class, calls for significant changes to your character.
Also, I want you to consider how the suggestion from @checkmatein3 would look like in Neverwinter. I full heatedly agree with that person that dungeons should link progression in a linear way. That is something that would be an excellent feature for Neverwinter, in its current state. Linear progression through the content (in Neverwinter) would be measured in years, not months, weeks, or days, for most people. I seriously agree with that 100% and would totally be happy if the game was more linear, and less variable. However, there is one thing that I think players should realize. Again, don't take this the wrong way, I fully support the idea. A linear progression would mean that a fresh level 70 wouldn't boost up all the way to all those dungeons after a week, like they do now. Scaling from your first EToS to CR would be a long grind (as it is now) but without the variability. I worry that players would be back here saying that they have been playing for a year, and still can't run half of the epic dungeons. This next statement is just my opinion, but that would be a good thing. Players would consistently be rewarded appropriate and progress in a linear fashion. Players would be motivated to improve their self, and their network (in game) to play the stuff that is currently out of their reach. People would just need to realize that (usually) it will be years, not months or weeks, before they are doing the hardest content.
My point is that it is nearly impossible to find a group for end game content if you type "SS Thauma CW 16.3 lfg CR" in PE lfg chat or in certain custom channels. You are right, people who know me and the way I play do invite me. But in lfg chats and/or certain custom channels people do not know me and they do not take the risk of taking a SS Thauma CW because they "know" that this build sucks dps-wise against a GWF or HR of the same "size".
First of all, I wouldn't suggest looking for CR in PE LFG. Most strong groups won't even invite someone using PE LFG for CR. They will find their player(s) elsewhere. That is due (more so) to a separate reason, not just your build.
Also, if you are talking about a Thaum, specifically, then sure it will probably be smoked by most good GWFs and HRs. That wasn't always the case, but it is now. However, if you are talking about the SS CW, then no. You can definitely hang with the GWFs and HRs. A run of CR is not going to take an extra 10 minutes because you bring a CW. The CW is in an excellent position currently.
A MoF is a totally different story as a MoF does not take the slot of a dps but of a support char.
Sorry, but that is wrong. If you go into CR, as the main DPS, you should (if you are trying to finish as fast as possible) be playing MoF most of the run (because the campfires are not positioned well). In the boss fights of CR, MoF beats SS (for DPS) when there isn't already a MoF present. MoF is the DPS slot, it just also offers some support too! For AOE you can spec SS, but it really doesn't matter that much since everything dies in a few seconds.
Let me ask you, why do you want to play ultra hard and challenging content? For the challenge itself? For the better rewards? Seriously, I am interested in a good reason why the suggested system (like barovian hunts, basic content, increasing difficulty by adding additional and optional challenges) does not fit your demands.
For the challenge itself. Once I feel like there is nothing left (progression wise), I can start another toon, or enjoy challenging content. Right now, there is no challenging content. That is why I am now working on an another toon (and playing a different game). Grinding the same trivial content over and over just becomes boring.
I wish that there was a dungeon that was so fundamentally difficult, that my friends and I would struggle every time we ran it. This game was challenging for so long, and I loved it. Now that I am somewhere near this "end-game" category I have realized that there is nothing left to do. That is very disappointing for someone who has endured the grind all the way up. Other end-game players have expressed this feeling too. I hope that you can try to empathize with players who feel that way after supporting this game so heavily over the past (x) amount of years.
I am actually not demanding anything here. I am just saying that some players have absolutely zero content, while others are feeling like they aren't ready (because of their build, knowledge of the game, friend list, etc.) for one or two pieces of content.
Also, the solo queue system was implemented to PvP. I won't talk about this much here, but it is relevant to the topic of motivation. I have been trying to get players to run premade vs premade again, and it doesn't seem to be possible anymore (at least not on a decent competitive level). I have actually received a reply like "I will stick to solo queue" more often than I predicted. That was very discouraging. As a result, private match 5v5 (on the end-game PvP side) dom has basically been eliminated from Neverwinter, unfortunately. Not enough people are motivated to leave solo queue because it is much easier to succeed in.
I am not arguing for changing existing dungeons, I agree to you (maybe for other reasons, maybe not) that this would be absurd. All I say is that now there is a good chance to change the way new dungeons work. You can say what you want but the complains about the barovian hunting system are few to not existent. Everyone and their mother likes this system. and its real potential is barely tapped. If I had any saying in Neverwinter's development, I'd move the resources away from creating the classic dungeons and towards this new mechanic that is largely liked by the playerbase. And I still can not see a single sense-making argument that would speak against this idea.
Btw, my apologies for imputing this attitude to you. Your answers clearly show that you are not that kind of person and I am sorry that I made these false assumptions.
I agree with that last part. I hope you know that I don't mean you any disrespect.
The hunting system is fine. However, applying that to all the epic dungeons in the game means that lower tier players will have nothing to shoot for, other than being able to "increase the difficulty".
For example, my first Castle Never (the old one) happened wayyy before I was prepared for it. This was on Xbox. My friends knew that we probably would not finish the final boss, but they wanted to show me the dungeon. We got all the way to the boss and couldn't finish. This was a great force of motivation to me. I knew that my friends were farming this thing over and over. I was the sole reason that the group was stuck there. I had only been playing the game for about a month so it wasn't a big deal. I still wasn't even convinced that I liked MMOs. After that though, I realized how much fun games like this could be. I was motivated to grow my character enough to finally run that dungeon. This was right before that dungeon was taken away though, so I never went back inside again. I wasn't going to try and try again before I was ready. After mod 6 came out, I know that a lot of players were not happy. I actually enjoyed it though. Running Epic Grey Wolf Den for the first time was probably the most fun I have ever had in this game. I remember we were stuck on that final boss forever. We had to really work together to finally make it work. Back then, that dungeon was very difficult. This example shows how having some content out of your reach can be a positive thing, not a negative thing. It means that you are not finished in this game. You still have room to grow.
Those ^ types of experiences encourage players to get better. In a game like Neverwinter, that is very important. Players need to have goals (ideally) just out of their reach at all times. This will keep players motivated to continue enhancing their:
gear build play-style knowledge of their own character knowledge of other characters mechanics synergies compositions rotations loadouts strategies networks
I am sure I forgot some things, I am typing this message very quickly as I have other things to do. I think the picture is clear though. All of these characteristics of Neverwinter are things that make it great. They allow for progression in so many ways. I said above that some "goals" should always exist just outside of players' reach, and that is for continual motivation. Nobody should get to a point, in a game, where they feel like they have nothing left to do. This is definitely possible in such a layered game, like Neverwinter. There should always be motivation for progress. That is something that is healthy for the game in many ways.
So how does adding a N version of a dungeon that is MECHANICALLY IDENTICAL, but with a bit lower HP, DR, and damage take anything away from anyone? You mean like how nDemo took away from people running mDemo back in Mod 8? Oh wait, that's right, it didn't. You must be talking about how nSVA took away from folks running mSVA. Oops, that didn't happen either.
How much extra dev time would it take away to drop dungeon HP, DR, and damage by 15-20%? Heck, maybe just drop the lvl to 72. What about if at the same time, you got a "Legendary" version too? Would that make having a Normal version ok? The way this convo is going though, I doubt it. It seems like more of a philosophical objection to anyone having access to content if they don't play in the exact same way you do.
I just keep seeing deflection. It doesn't matter the complaint or idea for improvement: - "Let's improve CWs." -> "CWs are already amazing! I saw one once!" - "Let's make dungeons easier." -> "Dungeons are already too easy!" - "Fair enough, let's add Normal dungeons." -> "No one would have anything to work for!" - "Give Normal dungeons lesser rewards." -> "People just need to L2P and make some friends!" - "Normal dungeons would give people a way to 'L2P'." -> "No one would ever learn from nerfed mechanics!" - "Keep the mechanics, lower the numbers." -> "Dungeons are already too easy!" - "So you've said, that why you'd have a 'N' and a 'M' version." -> "No one would have anything to work towards." - "We've already been over that..." -> "Look! Squirrel!!!"
If all else fails, the default assumption becomes that the only people that want any changes or difficulty options AT ALL, are 12yr olds that just bought their first lvl70 and want to SMASH ENDGAME NAOW!!
I'm sorry, but I'm tired of this whole thing, and I'm tired of being overly polite in the face of anyone who complains being indirectly called noobs that need to l2p solely because we're more interested in "playing the game", than in "playing the game engine" and "playing the playerbase".
Oh yeah, and "multiplying buffs are the root of all evil."
You got one thing wrong... The actual quote is, "The Love of multiplying buffs are the root of all evil." 0,o
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I'm sorry, but I'm tired of this whole thing, and I'm tired of being overly polite in the face of anyone
And I am tired of being polite to people who are unable to think critically and think their opinion on issues matters as much as the opinion of the people who do actually know how to play the game and have a better understanding than they do, when actually, it doesn't. There is a great quote, which is often attributed to Winston Churchill which goes along the lines of, "The best argument against democracy is spending 5 minutes on the street talking to the average voter," and almost every time I read the issues presented by the "average player", which aren't really issues in the first place, I feel exactly the same way. You know, issues like "all content should be available to everyone," or, "fbi needs to be nerfed," or, "CW needs a 400% buff," or many of the other threads following this logic.
I fully expect this comment to be banished to the lower depths but at this point I don't really care.
I'm sorry, but I'm tired of this whole thing, and I'm tired of being overly polite in the face of anyone
And I am tired of being polite to people who are unable to think critically and think their opinion on issues matters as much as the opinion of the people who do actually know how to play the game and have a better understanding than they do, when actually, it doesn't. There is a great quote, which is often attributed to Winston Churchill which goes along the lines of, "The best argument against democracy is spending 5 minutes on the street talking to the average voter," and almost every time I read the issues presented by the "average player", which aren't really issues in the first place, I feel exactly the same way. You know, issues like "all content should be available to everyone," or, "fbi needs to be nerfed," or, "CW needs a 400% buff," or many of the other threads following this logic.
I fully expect this comment to be banished to the lower depths but at this point I don't really care.
Someone should make a screenshot of this and put on wiki under definition of "elitism".
- This game is incredibly forgiving in terms of overall difficulty, and content that begins as something approaching difficult for the "average" end-game player is quickly trivialized due to power creep. And further trivialized due to the easy availability of life scrolls, which arguably wouldn't be nearly as popular a tool if potentially lethal mechanics worked consistently and as intended or if encounter-breaking bugs didn't necessitate dying to start over.
- I agree that there is a potential issue where newer players lack clear and useful guard rails to help point them in the right direction should they want them. While providing some freedom to choose how to progress is actually a nice feature, I don't think it's sufficient to tell players to go clicking all the exclamation points and doing all the campaigns and dungeons willy-nilly since that's a huge amount of content to digest in one sitting, and there are so many newbie traps built in to the game with no adequate explanation. A brand-new player won't instinctively know that their time is wasted farming for EE weapons, that their healing companion is junk, that running FBI for the first time using a minimum-ilvl DPS character is going to be rough, or that using legendary keys on very outdated dungeon chests isn't a great idea, etc. Experienced MMORPG players tend to research some of these things, but the entire server isn't made up of this demographic; not even close.
- FBI doesn't need a nerf; that's ridiculous.
- CW does need fixing; it's arguably the worst overall class in the game even if it's far from incapable. On the other hand, hyperbolic claims of CW uselessness don't help the cause.
I'm sorry, but I'm tired of this whole thing, and I'm tired of being overly polite in the face of anyone
And I am tired of being polite to people who are unable to think critically and think their opinion on issues matters as much as the opinion of the people who do actually know how to play the game and have a better understanding than they do, when actually, it doesn't. There is a great quote, which is often attributed to Winston Churchill which goes along the lines of, "The best argument against democracy is spending 5 minutes on the street talking to the average voter," and almost every time I read the issues presented by the "average player", which aren't really issues in the first place, I feel exactly the same way. You know, issues like "all content should be available to everyone," or, "fbi needs to be nerfed," or, "CW needs a 400% buff," or many of the other threads following this logic.
I fully expect this comment to be banished to the lower depths but at this point I don't really care.
That's why Winston Churchill fail so bad in WW2. It even nearly cost his position as prime minister. He thinks everyone is beneath him and would not listen to US proposal to strike Hitler through France. His imperialism beliefs lead him to prioritize British colony interest in Africa more than the actual war itself. If he could be more level headed and listen to the US proposals, the war would be over by 1943. Its his insistence that the campaign should be launch from Italy that cost so many of the Allied resources that in the end, he lost his credibility and the war is lead by the US by the end of WW2. Even the Russia hates him for prolonging the war.
Average player has the right to gives his opinion pretty much as like every other player in this game. Theory crafter still play by the developer rule. U theory craft from whatever rules the developer throws at u which is pretty much whatever the developer throws at any player in this game. It does not gives u superior rights over others opinion. That's why this forum exist here and not some theory crafter blog. Also, u don't need to be a theory crafter to know how MMO works. U just need to play lots of MMO to know that.
When u think others opinion are not important because you are so much better than them, good luck working with others in real life.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I'm sorry, but I'm tired of this whole thing, and I'm tired of being overly polite in the face of anyone
And I am tired of being polite to people who are unable to think critically and think their opinion on issues matters as much as the opinion of the people who do actually know how to play the game and have a better understanding than they do, when actually, it doesn't. There is a great quote, which is often attributed to Winston Churchill which goes along the lines of, "The best argument against democracy is spending 5 minutes on the street talking to the average voter," and almost every time I read the issues presented by the "average player", which aren't really issues in the first place, I feel exactly the same way. You know, issues like "all content should be available to everyone," or, "fbi needs to be nerfed," or, "CW needs a 400% buff," or many of the other threads following this logic.
I fully expect this comment to be banished to the lower depths but at this point I don't really care.
Someone should make a screenshot of this and put on wiki under definition of "elitism".
Did you miss the memo a few pages ago where I wrote a long article about elitism that concluded with, "elitist and proud," because if not I can link it to you. If you feel like linking it on wikipedia though feel free to, since I see it as a positive not a negative.
I'm sorry, but I'm tired of this whole thing, and I'm tired of being overly polite in the face of anyone
And I am tired of being polite to people who are unable to think critically and think their opinion on issues matters as much as the opinion of the people who do actually know how to play the game and have a better understanding than they do, when actually, it doesn't. There is a great quote, which is often attributed to Winston Churchill which goes along the lines of, "The best argument against democracy is spending 5 minutes on the street talking to the average voter," and almost every time I read the issues presented by the "average player", which aren't really issues in the first place, I feel exactly the same way. You know, issues like "all content should be available to everyone," or, "fbi needs to be nerfed," or, "CW needs a 400% buff," or many of the other threads following this logic.
I fully expect this comment to be banished to the lower depths but at this point I don't really care.
That's why Winston Churchill fail so bad in WW2. It even nearly cost his position as prime minister. He thinks everyone is beneath him and would not listen to US proposal to strike Hitler through France. His imperialism beliefs lead him to prioritize British colony interest in Africa more than the actual war itself. If he could be more level headed and listen to the US proposals, the war would be over by 1943. Its his insistence that the campaign should be launch from Italy that cost so many of the Allied resources that in the end, he lost his credibility and the war is lead by the US by the end of WW2. Even the Russia hates him for prolonging the war.
Average player has the right to gives his opinion pretty much as like every other player in this game. Theory crafter still play by the developer rule. U theory craft from whatever rules the developer throws at u which is pretty much whatever the developer throws at any player in this game. It does not gives u superior rights over others opinion. That's why this forum exist here and not some theory crafter blog. Also, u don't need to be a theory crafter to know how MMO works. U just need to play lots of MMO to know that.
When u think others opinion are not important because you are so much better than them, good luck working with others in real life.
I cannot fully respond to your post because to do so would involve going offtopic into history and politics (which I believe is not allowed on this forum) but I will respond to it in part. The way I see it there are 3 types of players:
Type 1 who does not struggle with the game, does not need help and is able to overcome any challenges thrown at them.
Type 2 who does struggle with the game, actively looks for help to deal with it and overcomes obstacles through changing how they play and learning from others.
Type 3 who does struggle with the game, refuses to change their behavior and instead blames the system for their own failures.
I am more than willing (and happy) to help type 2, which funnily enough normally leads to type 2 ending up as type 1, but I cannot tolerate type 3. The issues you are complaining with, they are all issues with you and you alone. Change your behavior and they will go away.
When I read posts like yours I cannot blame the developers for ignoring player feedback because if I was them and had to slog through this drivel I would ignore feedback too. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, but that doesn't mean that all opinions are equal. If medicine was based on a democratic system and everyone had to vote on what operating procedure was used, even the guy on the street, then I would bet the majority of patients would die. Fortunately, surgeons are smarter than this and such terrible systems where all opinions are treated equally is not implemented in medicine. The worst form of inequality is to try and make unequal things equal.
Well, when someone is denying basic human rights to other people and calling other inferior, you just cannot be indiferent, do you... or can you?
Doing a dungeon is a basic right? Are you sane?
And if you didn't realize, we are all inferior to others in most fields and topics, actually an average person has 50% of the population better than them in most fields. So what?
But lets go on, lets claim a victim to basic rights, and at the same time compare people to Hitler.. I'll quote Einstein, "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Again, please remove yourself from the thread, like you promised.. You should be ashamed of yourself, or at least your parents.. What you write is a pure pollution, and you should be banned ASAP.
And I'll quote Sharp one again, since we're doing a quote game.
Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, but that doesn't mean that all opinions are equal.
And that's the human right reference I'm talking about, Einstein.
Yes, because your opinion as a software tester is equal to a construction engineer when building a bridge. Or equal to anesthesiologist to determine dozes in surgery, or a rocket engineer when planning the next moon mission, yup indeed all are equal in their context, yup.
I just hope I'll never touch anything that needed actual professional opinion to design, and instead got an 'equal' one.
Einstein was indeed correct, and not only in physics. And after your post with comparison to Hitler, your opinion is indeed worth less, as worthless as your values as a human.
There you go, I can prove in 1 sentence that not all opinions are equal.
I'll gladly see the math showing you are more valuable then someone else.
Einstein was indeed correct, and not only in physics.
Exactly my thought when I read your responses here.
Want an argument for it? Sure. I spend 1000's of hours testing and figuring out game mechanics, getting a really really good understanding of the fundamentals of how the game works and trying to see it from the eyes of the people who develop it. In contrast, the only thing you maybe spend 1000's of hours doing is complaining you can't do anything at all. I know how the system works, it has been explained to you, numerous times throughout this thread how you can resolve your non issues and it works for other people.
Whilst I don't spend any money on the game, I am 100% certain there are people that there are people who buy stuff in the game for real $, based on recommendations made by me, in fact, there are people who have outright told me they have. As an example, 1 person bought 30m ad worth of zen for gear upgrades based on advice I gave for char gearing. I provide a form of "content" to some players, which counts as a non monetary contribution which has monetary value. What do you provide? You provide nothing and just want to reduce everyone to your level.
And I'll quote thefabricant once again, since we're doing a quote game.
Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, but that doesn't mean that all opinions are equal.
And that's the human right reference I'm talking about, Einstein.
We are not all born equal, some are born rich, some are born poor, some are born smart, some, not so much. These are obvious inequalities and trying to treat them as equal is the ultimate injustice of them all. By trying to make all things equal, you impair those who are brighter, smarter, more able to advance society, in order to promote the worst of society, the people who contribute very little, who aren't intelligent, who don't excel. This is a fact. You cannot genetically modify someone to make them more intelligent, so the only way you can achieve equality is by crippling the gifted down to the level of those who are not.
This is envy, pure and simple. That is all you are, a petty, malicious, envious being, who tries to bring down others and mask it using the disguise of "equality." We are not all equal. I cannot run races, perform surgery or fly planes and I don't expect to be afforded with as much respect as athletes, surgeons or pilots when discussing those fields.
Furthermore there is no human right stating that all opinions are equal, just one stating we all have the right to express an opinion.
Still waiting for your math sir. So far it's just your opinion against mine.
Still waiting for your math showing that our opinions are equal, oh wait, you can't show that either can you? Try making a valid argument instead of 1 that can be used by either side.
Still waiting for your math sir. So far it's just your opinion against mine.
Still waiting for your math showing that our opinions are equal, oh wait, you can't show that either can you? Try making a valid argument instead of 1 that can be used by either side.
Don't worry. I'm patient and can wait long for equation proving your superiority.
Btw. If I paid Cryptic more $ than you, will that make me better than you?
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Still waiting for your math sir. So far it's just your opinion against mine.
Still waiting for your math showing that our opinions are equal, oh wait, you can't show that either can you? Try making a valid argument instead of 1 that can be used by either side.
Don't worry. I'm patient and can wait long for eqation proving your superiority.
Btw. If I paid Cryptic more $ than you, will that make me better than you?
You missed the paragraph about how non monetary contribution can be worth more then monetary contribution? To compare the value of 2 things and decide whether they are equal or unequal you need to have some metric by which you judge value. The only real criterion we have here is the amount of effort players put into learning the system and I would like to see you try to argue you put the same amount of effort into it as I have. Explain to me how weapon enchants work, I bet you can't and when you want to know which is best who do you come running to to find out? To me, or the people who work with me. You don't need some formula to know there is a difference in value of opinion, but if you want to keep arguing opinions are equal well, mine occupy a different number of atoms and have a different word count, so clearly it is different on 2 grounds already. If they are not equal, 1 has to be better on some criterion then the other.
Yeah, I totally missed it, cause this is again your opinion against mine. Without any proof.
I see there's no point asking you to proof anything unless you can put some math to it. Shame.
It's kind of funny how you think your "formulas" are actually more important than money people put into this game. I'm sure Cryptic will happily have theorycrafters at the cost of customers. What was that Einstein quote again?
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Still waiting for your math sir. So far it's just your opinion against mine.
Still waiting for your math showing that our opinions are equal, oh wait, you can't show that either can you? Try making a valid argument instead of 1 that can be used by either side.
Don't worry. I'm patient and can wait long for equation proving your superiority.
Btw. If I paid Cryptic more $ than you, will that make me better than you?
Makes you better, no. No sum of money can do that.
But if Cryptic want to check about paying customers, a paying customer feedback/opinion will have more value. If Cryptic want to decrease player bounce rate, feedback from players who didn't even reach level 70 or left straight after is more valued than long time players, paying or not.
Opinions are not equal.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Yeah, I totally missed it, cause this is again your opinion against mine. Without any proof.
I see there's no point asking you to proof anything unless you can put some math to it. Shame.
It's kind of funny how you think your "formulas" are actually more important than money people put into this game. I'm sure Cryptic will happily leave theorycrafters at the cost of customers. What was that Einstein quote again?
I have already provided you a proof that not all opinions are equal, to do so I only have to provide an example of a single opinion which is not equal to another opinion, since by definition of there even a single example, the word "all" is no longer applicable. it is not my job to prove to you that my opinion is more valuable then yours, that is to be decided by the reader.
Passively aggressively telling me to prove it does not change this fact, but if my opinion (about not all opinions being equal) is of the same value as yours it creates a logical contradiction as they are 2 binary opposing views. 1 cannot be true without the other being false, which means that on the basis of valuing them in terms of truth, 1 is more valuable then the other. Since the falsehood of yours implies the truth of mine and yours being true creates a contradiction, your opinion that all opinions are equal in value must be false, which implies the truth of mine.
Now, since from that paragraph it is clear that not all opinions are equal in value,the opinion of someone in this thread has to be worth more then the opinion of someone else. I will leave that to the readers to decide, since ultimately they are the judges...
I just wanted to add that not all content is designed for all players, it is a fact. Read articles about "Bartle's Player Types", for example this one and it discusses this. Some players want one thing, others want another and it important to cater to both groups.
@thefabricant I always respect your point view cause I have huge respect for what you are doing for the community overall. However I do not agree with you on this one.
Look at this from this point: none of the new content from mod10 is adressed for low or mid-tier players. Nothing.
Everything new is considered endgame now. As a casual you are stuck with etos and CN until you will vomit or quit your job to grind your HAMSTER. I know that now mid-tier players can (and should be able) to complete MSP or FBI. But it's 6 mods from then already (if you count 10.5 or 12.5 as well).
The only new thing not-endgame people got is the Merchant Princes Folly. And that's it during the course of previous mods. You could also count NSVA, but there was almost no point to complete it, since you couldn't complete your mod10 weapons upgrade by running it.
Overall I could agree that not all the content should be for everyone. But with so little content released every mod (1 dungeon/trial) I can't agree. Look at how fast people are bored with running dong, craddle or cr. And now put yourself in the shoes of people who are damned to run CN, etos other old dungeons every day, every mod.
There is too much "oh new dungeon, whatever, I will never run it" content right now. I find this a paradox that this game tries to be casual-friendly yet every new content they release seems to say the opposite.
Don't get me wrong - I don't have problems with getting into parties. I have two near BiS toons (HR and GF) and it doesn't affect me so much. But I see my guildies having problems, I'm trying to help them but there's not much fun in being dragged through the dungeon, knowing that you contribute minimum to your party. The other part is I don't have so much time to help all of them since I play casually as well.
Sorry for my long response. I hope you'll understand the vibe. Let's not forget that there are tons of other people out there. Forums is just the small community of the playerbase overall.
Thanks, and keep up the great work!
NWO is for casual more than hard core players. I played games 10x harder and enjoyed them just as much as NWO. Your gripe is not even remotely true about this game. I played T9 and CoDG on a 11K OP. I have taken 11K DPS through T9 plenty as well as support players. You don't need max IL to play end game content. You just need to play your character well enough to get through content.
I have already provided you a proof that not all opinions are equal
Nope, you didn't. You are using a very easy and trivial technique of trying to prove something by stating undeniable sentences like "2+2=4" or "doctor won't ask a patient about how the surgery has to be done". Which by the way isn't the complete truth, cause at the end it's patient's decision and doctor has to adapt to his wishes the best way he can (anesthetic, medicines etc.). But that's offtopic.
So your tirvial examples aren't proving anything. Do you have a degree in Neverwinter? Is it official? Do you have any rights given to you by Cryptic? Can they confirm it? Can I compare it somehow with anyone else?
So to use the same trivial argument, I will state that money are more valuable for Cryptic than literally any of your work you did. Sad, but true. Therefore, my opinion is still - two customers' feedback is more valuable than yours.
Late hour here, going off to sleep. Don't hesitate and write another blog here. I'll answer tomorrow so I can make micky more happy.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
I have already provided you a proof that not all opinions are equal
Nope, you didn't. You are using a very easy and trivial technique of trying to prove something by stating undeniable sentences like "2+2=4" or "doctor won't ask a patient about how the surgery has to be done". Which by the way isn't the complete truth, cause at the end it's patient's decision and doctor has to adapt to his wishes the best way he can (anesthetic, medicines etc.). But that's offtopic.
So your tirvial examples aren't proving anything. Do you have a degree in Neverwinter? Is it official? Do you have any rights given to you by Cryptic? Can they confirm it? Can I compare it somehow with anyone else?
So to use the same trivial argument, I will state that money are more valuable for Cryptic than literally any of your work you did. Sad, but true. Therefore, my opinion is still - two customers' feedback is more vauluable than yours.
Late hour here, going off to sleep. Don't hesitate and write another blog here. I'll answer tomorrow so I can make micky more happy.
Oh no no, don't hesitate to reply to me, go for it.
I find the complaint about lack of content for 'new' or 'mid-tier' players somewhat odd. In this game in particular, it feels like you're constantly moving upwards - new (better) gear, improving your enchants, adding a new companion.... you're not static, and it's not hard to get to a pretty good spot.
This means that the 'end-game' is constantly moving further out from where 'fresh 70' is, and why the Barovia equipment pack is a really great thing. It can immediately push a fresh-70 to the mid-tier range. But in the meantime, they would still have all those other campaigns to do (which is content), while still being able to take part in higher end content. No, they can't skip straight to CR, and I don't think that's fair to throw it open to everyone (regardless of a normal / epic version). It's the 'endgame' in there, and it requires a bit more to take part - that's the 'perk' of having gotten a character to that level of play. It's something for the fresh-70 to strive for, a goal to be achieved. Eventually, that fresh-70 will have completed the campaigns, refined their stones up to 12-14, and have trans. weapon / armor enchants... and be able to walk in on Day 1 of a new mod and do the same.
I've been at both ends of this spectrum, as I've taken breaks from the game occasionally - it leaves me behind the curve, trying to catch up with guildmates who are running endgame content. Would I have liked to step right in and ran content with them? Sure. But I put in my time, got my boons, unlocked the campaigns, and eventually got there.
I'd suggest that a player that isn't advancing beyond 'mid-tier' over two mods is either playing very minimally, or has no interest in advancing their toon, or (most unlikely) is just really bad, and refuses to get/take advice.
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
Ok, at this point in time we feel it's needed to close this thread. Several people are behaving badly and resorting to name calling and insults to try to make their point. If ya'll can't discuss the matter in a civilized manner without resorting to the name calling and insults, then we have no choice but to close the thread.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
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naw, i don't think that's a good analogy. In the past we had n and m versions. this particular complaint wasn't around then. everyone was excited for new content. even ppl who couldn't normally do the content were eventually able to because they were able to learn the mechanics *even if slowly) thru the N version.
the problem is there is no training ground for the people that need a little extra help. all they need to do is make two versions. one with the same mechanics but less punishment for getting it wrong and the full strength ball buster. and everyone is happy
How much extra dev time would it take away to drop dungeon HP, DR, and damage by 15-20%? Heck, maybe just drop the lvl to 72. What about if at the same time, you got a "Legendary" version too? Would that make having a Normal version ok? The way this convo is going though, I doubt it. It seems like more of a philosophical objection to anyone having access to content if they don't play in the exact same way you do.
I just keep seeing deflection. It doesn't matter the complaint or idea for improvement:
- "Let's improve CWs." -> "CWs are already amazing! I saw one once!"
- "Let's make dungeons easier." -> "Dungeons are already too easy!"
- "Fair enough, let's add Normal dungeons." -> "No one would have anything to work for!"
- "Give Normal dungeons lesser rewards." -> "People just need to L2P and make some friends!"
- "Normal dungeons would give people a way to 'L2P'." -> "No one would ever learn from nerfed mechanics!"
- "Keep the mechanics, lower the numbers." -> "Dungeons are already too easy!"
- "So you've said, that why you'd have a 'N' and a 'M' version." -> "No one would have anything to work towards."
- "We've already been over that..." -> "Look! Squirrel!!!"
If all else fails, the default assumption becomes that the only people that want any changes or difficulty options AT ALL, are 12yr olds that just bought their first lvl70 and want to SMASH ENDGAME NAOW!!
I'm sorry, but I'm tired of this whole thing, and I'm tired of being overly polite in the face of anyone who complains being indirectly called noobs that need to l2p solely because we're more interested in "playing the game", than in "playing the game engine" and "playing the playerbase".
Oh yeah, and "multiplying buffs are the root of all evil."
1st, it creates a gap between ilevel which cause new player, returning player or casuals trying to catch up with the game. U cant blame them for being wanting to do end game either. That's where everybody is at. New player are gonna leave, when they have to go through all the campaign, which are gonna pile up as mod go by, to play with the crowds. That's why, Cryptic is trying to close the gap by putting in 500iL gear in hunts and campaign, like u say, creates the whole mess with linear progression. Even if they put in 500iL gear, those player still have problem with end game because of missing boons, enchantment and gaming experience. That's what lead to current problem. People feeling left out. They are equipped with end game gear but not able to play end game content. Tong and cradle is a good example. Then Cryptic make CR easier ( which I agree is a bad solution cryptic made to please lower end player) and the endgamer complain. But then, if cryptic doesn't close the gap and provide people with 500iL stuff, people wont stay for long as the road to end game seem unending as more mod are added. Linear progression is a problem as time goes by. U wont feel it back pre mod 6 as the gap isn't that big as it is now.
2nd, is the reason I got bored with the game and has the similar feeling with people that think current content is too easy. Have u ever wonder how mob die so fast in leveling dungeon that it turn those activity into mind numbing grind? In mod 9, etos was fun and CN is challenging, but malabog is too easy that its boring. But in mod 12, Malabog is like a leveling dungeon, etos is mind numbing easy, CN is like what etos was and FBI is like what CN once was. This thing will go on as more mod added and dungeon difficulty increase. It creates a situation where player of different iLevel only enjoy a certain content. Thats when I thought of an idea.
Multi difficulty option. Ever wanting to play eTOS at Tong level of difficulty? Ever wonder some dungeon that u love got obsolete and wish it could be made at endgame difficulty? Do u miss the 1-3, 3-6 days in valindra tower? With these option available, u can revisit past content with end game difficulty. Its what old game like Lotro are doing. They allow lvl 100 player to play a level 20 dungeon at level 100 difficulty (or 120 difficulty if people wants challenge). It also solve the 1st problem with ilevel difference. Now player of each group has broader selection in their game. Be it causal, new or hardcorer.
If its progression your are worried about, as I have already mention before and is done in other MMO with multilevel difficulty, U place loot behind it. U want the loot? u have to progress. U have to do it at harder difficulty. U want a level 100 item? u play the dungeon at level100. U wanna farm UEM for AD? u do at harder difficulty for better drop rates. To play at harder difficulty, player need to equip with better enchantment, boon and gear.
That's what I m trying to deliver in this thread all along. Why some people in this thread are trying to quote me with statement like, making content easier will bored me etc, really puzzle me. Multi difficulty option does not make content easy.
I asked "why" because the play-style exactly the same (minus Spell Twisting) which I already said you could take if you wanted to. If there is some difference between Thaum and Opp SS CWs then sure, I understand why one might feel more fun. However, since they are played identical, I don't see how one of them being "more fun" is an option. Sorry if I misinterpreted what you are saying, but this is where the idea is coming from. I understand that your main point is, you should be able to queue for an "easier" Castle Ravenloft, and that your build isn't getting invited to groups. However, one big part of this game is adapting yourself (build, etc.) to the changes of the game. All builds aren't going to be viable at all times. That is a good thing, it adds an entire dimension to the game that doesn't exist in others. Almost every significant change, to the game or your class, calls for significant changes to your character.
Also, I want you to consider how the suggestion from @checkmatein3 would look like in Neverwinter. I full heatedly agree with that person that dungeons should link progression in a linear way. That is something that would be an excellent feature for Neverwinter, in its current state. Linear progression through the content (in Neverwinter) would be measured in years, not months, weeks, or days, for most people. I seriously agree with that 100% and would totally be happy if the game was more linear, and less variable. However, there is one thing that I think players should realize. Again, don't take this the wrong way, I fully support the idea. A linear progression would mean that a fresh level 70 wouldn't boost up all the way to all those dungeons after a week, like they do now. Scaling from your first EToS to CR would be a long grind (as it is now) but without the variability. I worry that players would be back here saying that they have been playing for a year, and still can't run half of the epic dungeons. This next statement is just my opinion, but that would be a good thing. Players would consistently be rewarded appropriate and progress in a linear fashion. Players would be motivated to improve their self, and their network (in game) to play the stuff that is currently out of their reach. People would just need to realize that (usually) it will be years, not months or weeks, before they are doing the hardest content. First of all, I wouldn't suggest looking for CR in PE LFG. Most strong groups won't even invite someone using PE LFG for CR. They will find their player(s) elsewhere. That is due (more so) to a separate reason, not just your build.
Also, if you are talking about a Thaum, specifically, then sure it will probably be smoked by most good GWFs and HRs. That wasn't always the case, but it is now. However, if you are talking about the SS CW, then no. You can definitely hang with the GWFs and HRs. A run of CR is not going to take an extra 10 minutes because you bring a CW. The CW is in an excellent position currently. Sorry, but that is wrong. If you go into CR, as the main DPS, you should (if you are trying to finish as fast as possible) be playing MoF most of the run (because the campfires are not positioned well). In the boss fights of CR, MoF beats SS (for DPS) when there isn't already a MoF present. MoF is the DPS slot, it just also offers some support too! For AOE you can spec SS, but it really doesn't matter that much since everything dies in a few seconds.
I wish that there was a dungeon that was so fundamentally difficult, that my friends and I would struggle every time we ran it. This game was challenging for so long, and I loved it. Now that I am somewhere near this "end-game" category I have realized that there is nothing left to do. That is very disappointing for someone who has endured the grind all the way up. Other end-game players have expressed this feeling too. I hope that you can try to empathize with players who feel that way after supporting this game so heavily over the past (x) amount of years.
I am actually not demanding anything here. I am just saying that some players have absolutely zero content, while others are feeling like they aren't ready (because of their build, knowledge of the game, friend list, etc.) for one or two pieces of content.
Also, the solo queue system was implemented to PvP. I won't talk about this much here, but it is relevant to the topic of motivation. I have been trying to get players to run premade vs premade again, and it doesn't seem to be possible anymore (at least not on a decent competitive level). I have actually received a reply like "I will stick to solo queue" more often than I predicted. That was very discouraging. As a result, private match 5v5 (on the end-game PvP side) dom has basically been eliminated from Neverwinter, unfortunately. Not enough people are motivated to leave solo queue because it is much easier to succeed in. I agree with that last part. I hope you know that I don't mean you any disrespect.
The hunting system is fine. However, applying that to all the epic dungeons in the game means that lower tier players will have nothing to shoot for, other than being able to "increase the difficulty".
For example, my first Castle Never (the old one) happened wayyy before I was prepared for it. This was on Xbox. My friends knew that we probably would not finish the final boss, but they wanted to show me the dungeon. We got all the way to the boss and couldn't finish. This was a great force of motivation to me. I knew that my friends were farming this thing over and over. I was the sole reason that the group was stuck there. I had only been playing the game for about a month so it wasn't a big deal. I still wasn't even convinced that I liked MMOs. After that though, I realized how much fun games like this could be. I was motivated to grow my character enough to finally run that dungeon. This was right before that dungeon was taken away though, so I never went back inside again. I wasn't going to try and try again before I was ready. After mod 6 came out, I know that a lot of players were not happy. I actually enjoyed it though. Running Epic Grey Wolf Den for the first time was probably the most fun I have ever had in this game. I remember we were stuck on that final boss forever. We had to really work together to finally make it work. Back then, that dungeon was very difficult. This example shows how having some content out of your reach can be a positive thing, not a negative thing. It means that you are not finished in this game. You still have room to grow.
Those ^ types of experiences encourage players to get better. In a game like Neverwinter, that is very important. Players need to have goals (ideally) just out of their reach at all times. This will keep players motivated to continue enhancing their:
gear
build
play-style
knowledge of their own character
knowledge of other characters
mechanics
synergies
compositions
rotations
loadouts
strategies
networks
I am sure I forgot some things, I am typing this message very quickly as I have other things to do. I think the picture is clear though. All of these characteristics of Neverwinter are things that make it great. They allow for progression in so many ways. I said above that some "goals" should always exist just outside of players' reach, and that is for continual motivation. Nobody should get to a point, in a game, where they feel like they have nothing left to do. This is definitely possible in such a layered game, like Neverwinter. There should always be motivation for progress. That is something that is healthy for the game in many ways.
I fully expect this comment to be banished to the lower depths but at this point I don't really care.
- This game is incredibly forgiving in terms of overall difficulty, and content that begins as something approaching difficult for the "average" end-game player is quickly trivialized due to power creep. And further trivialized due to the easy availability of life scrolls, which arguably wouldn't be nearly as popular a tool if potentially lethal mechanics worked consistently and as intended or if encounter-breaking bugs didn't necessitate dying to start over.
- I agree that there is a potential issue where newer players lack clear and useful guard rails to help point them in the right direction should they want them. While providing some freedom to choose how to progress is actually a nice feature, I don't think it's sufficient to tell players to go clicking all the exclamation points and doing all the campaigns and dungeons willy-nilly since that's a huge amount of content to digest in one sitting, and there are so many newbie traps built in to the game with no adequate explanation. A brand-new player won't instinctively know that their time is wasted farming for EE weapons, that their healing companion is junk, that running FBI for the first time using a minimum-ilvl DPS character is going to be rough, or that using legendary keys on very outdated dungeon chests isn't a great idea, etc. Experienced MMORPG players tend to research some of these things, but the entire server isn't made up of this demographic; not even close.
- FBI doesn't need a nerf; that's ridiculous.
- CW does need fixing; it's arguably the worst overall class in the game even if it's far from incapable. On the other hand, hyperbolic claims of CW uselessness don't help the cause.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Average player has the right to gives his opinion pretty much as like every other player in this game. Theory crafter still play by the developer rule. U theory craft from whatever rules the developer throws at u which is pretty much whatever the developer throws at any player in this game. It does not gives u superior rights over others opinion. That's why this forum exist here and not some theory crafter blog. Also, u don't need to be a theory crafter to know how MMO works. U just need to play lots of MMO to know that.
When u think others opinion are not important because you are so much better than them, good luck working with others in real life.
- Type 1 who does not struggle with the game, does not need help and is able to overcome any challenges thrown at them.
- Type 2 who does struggle with the game, actively looks for help to deal with it and overcomes obstacles through changing how they play and learning from others.
- Type 3 who does struggle with the game, refuses to change their behavior and instead blames the system for their own failures.
I am more than willing (and happy) to help type 2, which funnily enough normally leads to type 2 ending up as type 1, but I cannot tolerate type 3. The issues you are complaining with, they are all issues with you and you alone. Change your behavior and they will go away.When I read posts like yours I cannot blame the developers for ignoring player feedback because if I was them and had to slog through this drivel I would ignore feedback too. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, but that doesn't mean that all opinions are equal. If medicine was based on a democratic system and everyone had to vote on what operating procedure was used, even the guy on the street, then I would bet the majority of patients would die. Fortunately, surgeons are smarter than this and such terrible systems where all opinions are treated equally is not implemented in medicine. The worst form of inequality is to try and make unequal things equal.
And if you didn't realize, we are all inferior to others in most fields and topics, actually an average person has 50% of the population better than them in most fields. So what?
But lets go on, lets claim a victim to basic rights, and at the same time compare people to Hitler..
I'll quote Einstein, "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Again, please remove yourself from the thread, like you promised.. You should be ashamed of yourself, or at least your parents.. What you write is a pure pollution, and you should be banned ASAP.
Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, but that doesn't mean that all opinions are equal.
And that's the human right reference I'm talking about, Einstein.
There you go, I can prove in 1 sentence that not all opinions are equal.
Or equal to anesthesiologist to determine dozes in surgery, or a rocket engineer when planning the next moon mission, yup indeed all are equal in their context, yup.
I just hope I'll never touch anything that needed actual professional opinion to design, and instead got an 'equal' one.
Einstein was indeed correct, and not only in physics. And after your post with comparison to Hitler, your opinion is indeed worth less, as worthless as your values as a human.
I'll gladly see the math showing you are more valuable then someone else.
Einstein was indeed correct, and not only in physics.
Exactly my thought when I read your responses here.
Whilst I don't spend any money on the game, I am 100% certain there are people that there are people who buy stuff in the game for real $, based on recommendations made by me, in fact, there are people who have outright told me they have. As an example, 1 person bought 30m ad worth of zen for gear upgrades based on advice I gave for char gearing. I provide a form of "content" to some players, which counts as a non monetary contribution which has monetary value. What do you provide? You provide nothing and just want to reduce everyone to your level.
But let me get back to this: We are not all born equal, some are born rich, some are born poor, some are born smart, some, not so much. These are obvious inequalities and trying to treat them as equal is the ultimate injustice of them all. By trying to make all things equal, you impair those who are brighter, smarter, more able to advance society, in order to promote the worst of society, the people who contribute very little, who aren't intelligent, who don't excel. This is a fact. You cannot genetically modify someone to make them more intelligent, so the only way you can achieve equality is by crippling the gifted down to the level of those who are not.
This is envy, pure and simple. That is all you are, a petty, malicious, envious being, who tries to bring down others and mask it using the disguise of "equality." We are not all equal. I cannot run races, perform surgery or fly planes and I don't expect to be afforded with as much respect as athletes, surgeons or pilots when discussing those fields.
Furthermore there is no human right stating that all opinions are equal, just one stating we all have the right to express an opinion.
Btw. If I paid Cryptic more $ than you, will that make me better than you?
I see there's no point asking you to proof anything unless you can put some math to it. Shame.
It's kind of funny how you think your "formulas" are actually more important than money people put into this game. I'm sure Cryptic will happily have theorycrafters at the cost of customers. What was that Einstein quote again?
But if Cryptic want to check about paying customers, a paying customer feedback/opinion will have more value.
If Cryptic want to decrease player bounce rate, feedback from players who didn't even reach level 70 or left straight after is more valued than long time players, paying or not.
Opinions are not equal.
Passively aggressively telling me to prove it does not change this fact, but if my opinion (about not all opinions being equal) is of the same value as yours it creates a logical contradiction as they are 2 binary opposing views. 1 cannot be true without the other being false, which means that on the basis of valuing them in terms of truth, 1 is more valuable then the other. Since the falsehood of yours implies the truth of mine and yours being true creates a contradiction, your opinion that all opinions are equal in value must be false, which implies the truth of mine.
Now, since from that paragraph it is clear that not all opinions are equal in value,the opinion of someone in this thread has to be worth more then the opinion of someone else. I will leave that to the readers to decide, since ultimately they are the judges...
Nope, you didn't. You are using a very easy and trivial technique of trying to prove something by stating undeniable sentences like "2+2=4" or "doctor won't ask a patient about how the surgery has to be done". Which by the way isn't the complete truth, cause at the end it's patient's decision and doctor has to adapt to his wishes the best way he can (anesthetic, medicines etc.). But that's offtopic.
So your tirvial examples aren't proving anything. Do you have a degree in Neverwinter? Is it official? Do you have any rights given to you by Cryptic? Can they confirm it? Can I compare it somehow with anyone else?
So to use the same trivial argument, I will state that money are more valuable for Cryptic than literally any of your work you did. Sad, but true. Therefore, my opinion is still - two customers' feedback is more valuable than yours.
Late hour here, going off to sleep. Don't hesitate and write another blog here. I'll answer tomorrow so I can make micky more happy.
This means that the 'end-game' is constantly moving further out from where 'fresh 70' is, and why the Barovia equipment pack is a really great thing. It can immediately push a fresh-70 to the mid-tier range. But in the meantime, they would still have all those other campaigns to do (which is content), while still being able to take part in higher end content. No, they can't skip straight to CR, and I don't think that's fair to throw it open to everyone (regardless of a normal / epic version). It's the 'endgame' in there, and it requires a bit more to take part - that's the 'perk' of having gotten a character to that level of play. It's something for the fresh-70 to strive for, a goal to be achieved. Eventually, that fresh-70 will have completed the campaigns, refined their stones up to 12-14, and have trans. weapon / armor enchants... and be able to walk in on Day 1 of a new mod and do the same.
I've been at both ends of this spectrum, as I've taken breaks from the game occasionally - it leaves me behind the curve, trying to catch up with guildmates who are running endgame content. Would I have liked to step right in and ran content with them? Sure. But I put in my time, got my boons, unlocked the campaigns, and eventually got there.
I'd suggest that a player that isn't advancing beyond 'mid-tier' over two mods is either playing very minimally, or has no interest in advancing their toon, or (most unlikely) is just really bad, and refuses to get/take advice.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!