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Solving the Archery Dilemma - PVE Close Range Archery-Combat Hybrid Build
Introducing Yarrow’s Ridiculously Idiotic But Kind of Amazing Archery Build
LAST UPDATED JANUARY 2019: Third Edition ver. C for Mod 15 by Extraneous Typo (Xbox GT)DISCONTINUED: My Hybrid Archery Build is out of date due to the dramatic class changes that occurred in Mod 16. Please see my latest archery build at http://bit.ly/YarrowsUtterlyArchery.
The Dilemma
Archers do not really get a lot of respect. Sure archery has its fans, but other players, even many who play Combat or Trapper HRs, will frequently say that Archers are a problem because they shoot from a distance and miss out on party buffs. Archers can be so far away that their companions may not even engage in the fight, which can mean bonding stones won't proc. These issues are not quite so true any more though. In Mod 15, the developers changed the archery feats in an apparent effort to address the problem. This change eliminated a key source of range-based damage and replaced it with a requirement for Archers to stand still or quickly lose Stillness stacks of damage and crit. The result is that many archers are now unhappy because they prefer firing from range. Even when they do play close in to a party to take advantage of the updated feats, they can seem underpowered compared to other types of HRs.My Perspective
I am Extraneous Typo (Xbox GT) and I have been playing a Hunter Ranger (named Yarrow) since 2015. I have played all paths for both paragons. My current top loadout for "serious business" is a Combat. But with the release of loadouts in 2017, I started playing around on the side with Archery and have become quite fond of this path. I do recognize there are some fundamental issues, but I also believe there is a work-around solution to this archery problem.The Solution
I think a good work-around is a hybrid archery-combat build, mostly as a secondary DPS and support role. In general, most of the feats will still be in the archery tree, including the capstone feat, but key is not selecting Stillness of the Forest and instead putting points into Skirmisher's Gambit from the Combat tree, which will apply a reliable +50% Critical Severity to all attacks. You can also move however you like and dish out heavy damage from any range. Party buffs will help increase your damage potential, but you can also choose to play this in a ranged manner if you really just prefer the old way of playing archery. I've even included some special rotations just for range.But the differences go even further. You will now have to build Crit and a lot of Recovery and I'm also recommending an alternating rotation (kind of like a Trapper) of ranged and melee attacks, focusing mostly on encounters and dailies, in part to leverage the scaling physical damage from the Longshot feat. At-wills still come into the picture, but more for adding stacks to your Rising Power feat and not as the main source of damage. All of this maximizes the damage potential and even contributes to party buffs.
By focusing on encounters and dailies, you are buffing and debuffing to help your party. It's a very efficient dual-function use of powers! See the full build document for details.
If you previously read either of the earlier editions, I recommend re-reading the 3rd edition of the guide. I've added the Mod 15 boons, made some gear changes, and some additional minor updates here and there, especially to the introduction section.
View the Full Build from my Google Drive:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zYW7uzzwIVGEURjWZZ8G67hNXrIaXPhz
Note: If you strongly prefer being a pure archer, then you might want to consider my pure archery build instead. But if you would like to become more viable for participating as an archer in end-game parties, then this hybrid build is for you.
Isn't this just a Ridiculous Idea?
Well I'm not saying this build makes Archery better or the equal to Combat or Trapper, but I am hoping it can close the gap. Here are a few short video examples of me demonstrating this build, so that you can see the possibilities. These videos were from my first edition build and I've since smoothed out the rotations in the later editions.Solo Archer Beating Up a Band of Gorillas in Omu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Uu_lXfPJw4Solo Archer Taking Down a T-Rex by Soshenstar River
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzinLqpcxfMArcher Blacking Out Four Stronghold Target Dummies at Once
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZbKNybpWMwIf you would like to try this build out for yourself, you can view or download a copy of the build from the following link. I've tried to make the read a little more fun too!
Get Copy of Yarrow's Archery-Combat Hybrid Build (PDF document via Google Drive)
If you do try this build, please let me know what you think in the comments. I'm also happy to answer questions and your suggestions are welcome too.
Enjoy!
Extraneous Typo
Post edited by typo#6563 on
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Comments
I definitely think this is the way to play archery if that's what you want, but I just don't see any reason a group would want this build over a standard trapper build.
Also, archers and this hybrid happen to have the highest AoE damage and ranged attack damage of any HR path. Rooting DOT might catch up in a long fight though. But anyway, all the best buffs are range attacks! So in general, this hybrid is just better than a traditional archer at fitting into the party meta with a nice combination of both DPS and buffing/debuffing. That is key!
But I'm glad you raised the point. The build does recommend Combat and Trapper for proven performance. But if a player really wants to be an archer, then this might be the build for them. I believe a player running this build would be a valued member of a party in probably a strong secondary DPS and support role.
But unfortunetly in this case your build is kind of pointless. The way you play is almost exactly like a Trapper.. except all you are doing is being much much slower (due to cooldowns) and much weaker in general.
Try your rotations using the Trapper Path, Aspect of the Serpent (get used to the stacks and damage) and Swiftness of the Fox.
If you go all the way down the Archery Tree then their Melee attacks are generally not worth using much.
Longshot is pretty pathetic damage and I would not base any kind of DPS around it.
By focusing on Encounters and Dailies you are basically playing a Trapper without any of the positives that come with it.
Lastly the normal Trapper rotation does not do what as much? You are describing and playing like a Trapper but then say you have no experience in it, thus you should not really comment too much about it
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
That said however, about the best buff-bot build is a trapper with good recovery, literally it can stand still and spam back to back longstriders, hawkshot buff and oakskin/other melee buff. I used to do it in underdark many moons ago if I was feeling lazy.
Archer and PVE has always been a tough mix as you mentioned in your prologue. Still, your build is probably the best if someone absolutely HAS to be an archer everywhere lol. Also if you're playing solo, with an augument pet, archer is a fairly low stress, not too many fingers required, high bang for low buck, choice.
Also, the facts of your comment here are wrong. The build is not built around Longshot, although Longshot is certainly a part of the Archery feats. I also DO have experience as a Trapper and currently have one. Anyway the actual approach of this build is explained in my original post and in the linked document. You may want to read that and then consider revising your comment, if you want. Again, I do understand the initial reaction of skepticism.
As far as archers strictly being range, while I do understand your point, just consider that top performing Combat Hunter Rangers use ranged attacks, not just strictly melee. So why couldn't it be the same way for Archers? It is my view that archers can do melee, and should, as part of their overall rotation.
The developers actually acknowledged the archery issues in Fall 2017 and said that these issues could be fixed but that it was not going to be an immediate priority. But they have made one change already. With the release of Mod 13b, the Longshot feat was updated so that damage now scales with player stats. Certainly more needs to be done and I am hopeful it will happen.
UPDATE 07-12-2018: I was told today that a rumor is floating around about big updates to archery coming in mod 14 or 14b. The rumor apparently cites the two points from the last paragraph above. But Cryptic has not made any such changes in mod 14 (very clear from a review of the patch notes!) and no one knows yet what will happen in mod 14b. It would be nice to see a revamped archery, but that is still only a dream.
I have used the Trapper rotation LSS > Constricting > Plant but unless I wanted to re-build my trapper with higher recovery, I can't really get rid of having at least one rooting power. Those roots are essential to help with my cooldowns in order to keep up a smooth rotation. Actually giving up roots just to spam buffs would likely mean a huge drop in DPS because most of a Trapper's DPS comes from those roots. A mostly non-DPS Trapper would not be ideal. At minimum a secondary DPS should do close to half of the damage of the primary DPS. But this is where the hybrid archer gets kind of interesting, because it can maintain both LSS and TW with steady DPS, all at the same time. And enough DPS to qualify as a real secondary DPS. But again, archery may not be everyone's preferred choice, but it could legitimately fill a role and do a decent job of it I think.
But there is such a stigma about archers that I'm sure many people will not take the time to really consider this approach. I just decided to put it out there because there will be those very few who will. This build is for them.
I used this build in PvP and play it like a trapper and its quite effective. My boons selection is different to meet my target stats.
Great post @typo#6563
Anyway, I am a little disappointed at your accusation. I did not take your ideas. In fact, I don't even know who you are.
This is also not my first public posting about this build concept. I originally posted my thoughts about it on February 20, 2018 in The Neverwinter Hunter Ranger Group on Facebook and that post is still there if you would like to go check it out.
But really, Archery just gets so little love. I don't really notice any infighting among build publishers for combat and trapper. The more you and I can get out and positively advocate, that will be better for archers.
I'd love to meet you some time in the game... that is if we are on the same platform. I do really enjoy talking about this stuff and maybe we can learn a thing or two from each other.
What is nice to see is the little things people add/tweak like mount insignia bounses, enchantments, companions, etc.
Keep up the good work. I'm all for people trying new and different things, and while the archer path isn't really my cup of tea in PVE, I appreciate those who share different ideas with the community. I think sometimes people forget that this is a *game* and some of us play it from a role playing perspective. For those who want to play an archer-themed character, this is a fine guide. And for what its worth, the pdf version of your guide is really one of the nicest guides I've seen.
Edit : I m fine with people playing point blank archer for fun but making it as a meta will totally eliminate the range class category from the game. IMO archer should be staying back providing covering fire for the party. Turning archer into another trapper type gameplay, weaving in and out is gonna make me real sad. I mean we already have a trapper class that does that.
I have played Trapper too for a long time and I enjoy it, but I also know that a lot of people who typically play Archer choose it because they don't like melee or that crazy trapper rotation. Still, I thought it would be neat to share this build anyway. Who knows, maybe there's a developer out there who has been reading this and is now thinking, "Gosh, we need to make some changes to Archer soon!"
I actually play all three paths of Hunter Ranger and also play an alt CW. Archery has just been a fun little side project just to explore the possibilities of this much-maligned path. It has some real potential but I also believe there is some help needed from the developers. We shall see what happens!
But it is underpowered in PvE no matter what you do it. All I was trying to say earlier is you are playing like a Trapper but made a Combat/Archer Hybrid. A Trapper is a natural Hybrid in the 1st place all in 1 Tree instead of spread out over 2 Tree's.
Honestly I have tried to made Archer/Combat Hybrid's work but unfortunately they dont have as much hitting power.
Edit.... OOOOOOOOoooooh my bad, you have actually made an Archer with 15 points into the Combat Tree... so really just an Archer as you took the Capstone Feat. I have been under the impression you made a full Hybrid with no Capstone for some reason
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
What I would like to see changed by Cryptic are four things:
(1) Reduced casting time on range attacks for Archers, possibly with a multi-fire capability for some attacks that normally would hit a single target in order to enable Archers to take on several opponents with something other than just AoEs,
(2) Ability to receive party buffs at range,
(3) Ability for companions and bonding stones to properly function at range, and
(4) More balanced damage with respect to other paths/classes (and perhaps even a bonus to the buffs/debuffs from ranged-based attacks, which would really help to set this path apart, since after-all range is our specialty).
This build does not address the first item, and so mostly AoE's are your only option for multiple targets. Rapid shot and Electric Shot are currently about the closest options here for fast multishot, but both of them are definitely way underpowered, especially when you look at the mobs in harder dungeons. I am envisioning something sort of like what Legolas can do. Arrow after arrow in quick succession to take out the enemy, not just having the enemy look like pin cushions from all the pin pricks of numerous non-fatal arrows.
But the build does address the last three items. Though I will say item one does impact item four. If the cast time on aimed shot and other higher power range attacks were reduced more significantly that might help. I would have liked to have fired some big single-target shots at the T-Rex, but they are all way too slow and counter-intuitive to the archery feats in which we are supposed to be fast movers. As it stands today, trying to use aimed shot or commanding shot or some of the others has a lot of wasted time, time in which you can be out DPS'd by other classes who can do more damage in that same time, and all the while you're pretty much a sitting duck of a target for the bad guys. Even the AoEs are slowish, but at least you are hitting all the targets in the area.
So anyway I do kind of agree with you. This build is a little kludgy (hence the "Ridiculously Idiotic But Kind of Amazing" title) and so it would be ideal if the developers just fixed the archer path.
Still, by using Skirmishers Gambit in this build, at least there is now a little more punch and efficiently to each of our attacks. And I think the damage is further improved since you can dish it out from anywhere and not waste valuable time trying to reposition oneself to maintain an optimal distance for ranged-based damage. There's also more value added to parties with all the focus on buffing. And let's not forget being able to receive party buffs too! That last one can boost both damage and survivability even more.
The net net is this is kind of an UN-ARCHER.
As unorthodox as this approach may seem though, it is at least more competitive (or at least on a more equal footing to compete) and really prioritizes contributing to party success. Compared to just standing there and mostly just repeatedly firing Aimed Shot, this is a holistic improvement, not just in terms of the feats, but including rotation, playstyle, and contributing to TEAMWORK. It is an option to consider. To think about. I fully expect some people may turn up their noses, but that's quite ok.
Having said that, this class is the most fun to play as there are many ways to play, and I might gives this try on a new loadout.
If you do try this, I'd definitely like to hear how it goes. Please share what happens!
(Oh, and you have just given me an idea for my next video.)
I like the mentality. It's probably neither brand new nor specially effective but why should it be?
To me it looks like a trapper using archery feats which isn't necessarily a bad idea.
Combat isn't much fun since Careful Attack is gone. Many aspects of the HR need to be reworked but that's not gonna happen any time soon so we can always have fun trying different things in the mean time.