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The 5th loadout

adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
Right, so my DC now has 5 loadout slots.
  1. Righteous DO DPS build for solo play.
  2. Classic AC Power sharing build
  3. PvP build. Yes, it sucks, but it is the best I could do
For the final two loadouts, I am essentially splitting my existing "DO buff" loadout in two, one optimized for single DC parties and the other when I'm in a party with an AC DC as well.

My question to you all is what the differences between those builds should be to make them "optimal". I'm not asking about the gear - just assume BiS gear - the question is primarily about feat selection.

The most obvious difference is of course Weapons of Light, which would not be included in the "2 DC" (multiple WoL don't stack, and the AC will have higher Power than I anyhow). The question is, what else?

For example, for either of those two loadouts, would you put 15 points into Faithful (for Gift of Haste), into Virtuous (for Gift of the God), or just stay fully Righteous? What else does the presence (or absence) of an AC DC affect?

Finally, which one of those two loadouts would you use when you are in a 3-DC group (like CoDG), with you in a party with the DPSers, and the two ACs in the other party, and why?
Hoping for improvements...

Comments

  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,550 Arc User
    DO Righteous for 2 DC I went into Faithful for Gift of the God divinity gain.

    I would say to use the Duo DO build for Cradle since presumably both ACs will have WoL and BYS.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    I have partial Faithful loadouts but never need to use them. The same Righteous DO (and AC for when I need to fill the role) loadouts work for everything.

    There are relatively few good DC feats, so attempting to min/max feat selection by loadout for various group comps yields depressingly little benefit.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • jazzfongjazzfong Member Posts: 1,079 Arc User
    I have 4 loadout atm.
    1. PvE DPS solo DO (Max dps)
    2. PvE Farm DO (Makos Eku helm/armor + burning set + lightning enchant)
    3. PvP DPS DO (15k arp)
    4. PvP Tank AC (Faithful)

    Since Zen is cheap and switching items and boons are messy, just buy more loadout will do, even if you just want to change a few paragon feats. It is much cheaper in the long run with rapid tweaks.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    I have an empty loadout, with no gear or feats allocated for testing stuff.
  • trzebiat#2067 trzebiat Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    I have currently:
    1. DPS DO, Righteous with Gift of Gods, no WoL/ByS/CG if running with AC
    2. DO, Righteous with Gift of Gods, WoL, ByS and CG if running solo DO
    3. AC Righteous with Gift of Haste
    4. AC Virtuous with WoL
    5. pure DPS AC

    If I'm in DPS group in Cradle I use DPS DO, Wheel the DPS, use HG and empower BtS. If there is other DO who covers HG and BtS I empower DL and PoD and use FF for damage and proccing Combatant's.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,404 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Apart from a typical set of 3 similar to what you have, I'd add these two:

    Faithful DO for use in CRavenloft's final boss.

    3/3 Cleanse either paragon for use with the DPS GFs in your guild.

  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    Apart from a typical set of 3 similar to what you have, I'd add these two:

    Faithful DO for use in CRavenloft's final boss.

    3/3 Cleanse either paragon for use with the DPS GFs in your guild.

    Slight necro here, but I have to admit that the devs have made healing DC loadouts more relevant, even if only in one dungeon and only at the last boss. A Virtuous or Faithful loadout isn't required (Righteous is still doable with a heal or two to help soak the bats), but it does make it easier to be flexible and open up the group slots to a wider variety of classes and roles and still be successful.

    My guild groups are less concerned about stacking every possible DPS increase on Strahd and more with playing it slightly safer where the loss to DPS is fairly minimal since Strahd insists on going through his phases even if you reduce his HP to 0 in the first phase.

    As far as feat path for heal support, I'm finding so far that Virtuous works better due to the high-yield, long-duration healing for the bat soak. I initially tested Faithful because I expected it to be better with Gift of Faith and Shared Burdens, but Virtuous seems to work even more smoothly as a main heal spec for that mechanic.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,550 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    I haven't had an issue healing as sole DC running AC Righteous the whole time. It doesn't stop the one shots but I don't know that the other capstones would. I can see that there might be some use in 2 DC setups for AC to be Faithful or Virtuous but not so much in 1 DC runs. I do have extra loadout purchased and it would be nice to try something different.

    Basing it on AC for the mitigation over DO for the passive buff. Strahd doesn't seem to take massive damage to defeat, it is just avoiding dying during the other bits.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    > @pitshade said:
    > I haven't had an issue healing as sole DC running AC Righteous the whole time. It doesn't stop the one shots but I don't know that the other capstones would. I can see that there might be some use in 2 DC setups for AC to be Faithful or Virtuous but not so much in 1 DC runs. I do have extra loadout purchased and it would be nice to try something different.
    >
    > Basing it on AC for the mitigation over DO for the passive buff. Strahd doesn't seem to take massive damage to defeat, it is just avoiding dying during the other bits.

    The apparent one-shots are reduced when there is constant healing. I’m not sure to what degree added mitigation helps to prevent the “Unavoidable Damage” type, but you rarely have anyone keel over instantly while under healing effects unless their max HP are too low, they move out of formation, or they are dropped from the nightmare room in the middle of overlapping bombs.

    Righteous still works fine, and I’ve done it with almost no direct healing as well, but at this point our strategy is more around building insurance to minimize deaths when mechanics don’t play nice.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • putzboy78putzboy78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,950 Arc User
    its not a "one shot" if you can heal through it. Things you can heal through are best served with HOTs or with the faithful capstone. This is why as healers an OP or an SW can be seen as more effective because the heals are passive and frequent.

    To avoid "one-shots" you have turn your focus more to damage mitigation either:

    Through immunities (ex. prophetic action) which is why OPs are so effective as protectors

    Increase damaged resistance (ex. HG, DG, foresight) which is why a GF can be helpful with knights valor eating half the incoming damage

    DCs can help certainly help with all the one-shot mechanics and unavoidable damage scenarios but really we need to partner with protectors to manage these scenarios
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    rjc9000 said:

    Apart from a typical set of 3 similar to what you have, I'd add these two:



    3/3 Cleanse either paragon for use with the DPS GFs in your guild.


    hahahaha. it's getting to the point where you can't get a codg run in my alliance if you don't declare yourself cleanse free. they need to just nerf the dps gf. it shouldn't be a thing anyway any more than the dps do. some extra damage but not something that can outdo the proper dps classes.


    to add on to this conversation properly, I'm using the support/dps do build that rjc and michela put together and for codg only I have switched out dg with ff. I prioritize bts empowered but if I have the time for an extra rotation (and with the mobs in the first part) I toss down ff instead. mainly because in most runs I see the 2 acs maybe do one or two ff empowered the entire game and three dcs with dg seems like over kill to me. I've been wavering on using the dc sigil instead of the lantern (everyone is in a clump so trying to wheel main dps is near impossible for me personally cause spaz) because with this I don't have any good source of building up my daily outside of combat. it seems possible with enough recovery to always have a hg ready to go but there are occasional misses without the sigil.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,404 Arc User
    edited July 2018

    because with this I don't have any good source of building up my daily outside of combat. it seems possible with enough recovery to always have a hg ready to go but there are occasional misses without the sigil.

    If you fire off a non Divine Daunting Light, you actually regen some of your AP, regardless of if the DL strikes anything.

    I personally never had issues with AP on the elevator, I just set down HG 5-7 seconds before the mobs spawn, then set down Chains for some instanuke, then cast a 1x/2x EmpBtS for the DPS, then fire off a DL if there's anything left. That usually regens a full daily for me, otherwise, Gift of Haste/random DL firings should top me off for the next set of mobs.

    I do have issues on having an HG for every set of 2x cords because the DPS one hit the cords before I can even react.

  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    because with this I don't have any good source of building up my daily outside of combat. it seems possible with enough recovery to always have a hg ready to go but there are occasional misses without the sigil.

    If you fire off a non Divine Daunting Light, you actually regen some of your AP, regardless of if the DL strikes anything.

    I personally never had issues with AP on the elevator, I just set down HG 5-7 seconds before the mobs spawn, then set down Chains for some instanuke, then cast a 1x/2x EmpBtS for the DPS, then fire off a DL if there's anything left. That usually regens a full daily for me, otherwise, Gift of Haste/random DL firings should top me off for the next set of mobs.

    I do have issues on having an HG for every set of 2x cords because the DPS one hit the cords before I can even react.
    if i ran that set up they'd have kittens. i'm doing ff/bts/pod, maybe I should switch out pod for dl or chains? I put on ff instead of Dl because it seems like the acs never actually fire ff's. In most runs I just see one or two ffs usually unless it's a superstar ac. Whereas, I can usually get out a good variety of empowered bts,and ff quickly.

    I actually got lectured and almost not chosen for a run for just not running dg/ running ff was also lectured. lol. I'm afraid to run chains because that one is easily picked up as a dps dc encounter. ppl are so censorus of dcs.

    but honestly with two acs you'd think you'd see a lot more ff...
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    In CoDG I pretty much always run DL, Chains, BtS on my DO in the elevator. I have not once had anyone complain, and I'm frequently invited back by public queue friends because I combine supporting DPS with buff uptime. There's no need for multiple DCs to run DG.

    For the Atropal I swap Chains out for PoD for the token debuff. I don't think anyone would notice its lack considering all of the debuffs typically stacked by the party, but at least it's something.

    However, PoD is not at all worth using in trash sections; applying a modest defense debuff to a single trash mob is not a great use of time, not to mention that you may not even get the AP regeneration if the target is gibbed immediately after you cast it.

    Having both FF and BtS isn't practical since you can't reasonably empower them both. You shouldn't have to try to work miracles to make up for lazy co-DCs. I'd suggest focusing on BtS since it provides a flat-out better buff and let the AC(s) worry about FF uptime.


    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    To get back to the original subject, I have actually come up with a 5th loadout that works for me - "Defensive (mostly) Righteous DO".

    I do some buffing (with Terrifying Insight, BtS etc) but select various boons, feats and powers for their ability to keep people alive, at the cost of some reduction in buffing/debuffing.

    This build seems to work really well for the Strahd (CR, final boss) fight, and I'm kind-of wondering if it might be usable in PvP as well. Thoughts ?
    Hoping for improvements...
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    I got 4 loadouts on my DC....

    DO cleanse
    DO no cleanse
    AC cleanse
    AC no cleanse

    If I had a fifth it would be AC Tank It as I would go for a more protective AC build focused on my character AC to take the hits for PVP/PVE content.
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