Add random +4 IG companion items to the mysterious merchant that cost, I don't know, 500k ad or whatever suitable amount, no GM cost. It will also increase the interest in the mysterious merchant since as of now it has only one, or maybe 2 items that people actually might want. Could even be new companion items, with comparable power to mod 13 rings, currently the best companion gear there is.
I love this change. So glad cryptic is putting it in.
Too bad for the botters and people selling AD 3rd party, QQ
People now has more incentive to buy from 3rd party. This change helps them and does not affect them in a negative way at all. This change is not intended for fighting bot. Before the change, each bot account has 72K AD daily cap. After the change, each bot account has 100K Ad daily cap. Bot does not buy extra character slot.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
7
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,217Arc User
Why do people keep saying AH prices are inflated? I'm just not seeing it.
I’m not sure anybody but me said prices were inflated, but… as I said above: “Sometimes it’s hard to conceptually distinguish between the value of a currency, and the value of the things priced in that currency.”
So to consider some of your examples…. Enchants/runestones/bondings had 2 ranks added to them, and the need to “fuse” them was eliminated, thus drastically reducing the demand for them. Hence, prices, especially prices of the low level ones, dropped. That’s supply-and-demand.
Mounts and weapon/armor enchants seem to vary mostly with whether they’re in lockboxes. Will-O’-Wisp, for example, used to sell for 1.2 million AD, but it’s recently been as low as … 30,000 or so? … because it’s in the current lockbox. Again, supply-and-demand.
The Siege Master, on the other hand, is currently offered on the AH at 788,888 AD, which is equivalent to 1578 Zen at 500:1. But its Zen store price is only 1200 Zen. That’s the same sign of an inflated currency (AD) as I was talking about with wards.
The relevant question is not the price of something compared to a past price. The relevant question is the price of a thing in one currency vs. another currency, and, perhaps, how those relative prices change over time.
Yeah but it's the same currency for the AH (AD), you can generate it even faster/easier now than before, and prices are still lower on the AH. So AH prices are NOT inflated it's just shifts in supply and demand.
Also, I just saw the Siege Master for ~680K a few days ago on PC. I was looking at it for a newer player in our guild that doesn't have his dps companions squared away. That's equal to ~1360 zen which is not too badly inflated considering the ZAX backlog is so large right now.
So the real issue is not inflation on the AH it's ZAX backlog right? I would argue that it's not as simple an argument as the backlog is high because there is too much AD, there are other factors involved there as well. First and foremost the upcoming summer zen store sale, and there have been several very unpopular nerfs over the past 8 months or so that have soured many people on spending real money on zen. Also, botting is rampant in the random dungeon queue, and I've personally seen decently geared characters that were very clearly being run by a script so actual players are using bot scripts in random dungeons not just the gold sellers.
I'm sorry I was not trying to single you out, I just don't agree with the arguments I've read that AH prices are inflated and we need this nerf to AD generation and rough AD conversion to save the economy and the ZAX, it's just not the whole story. Truth be told the nerf won't affect me that much overall right now, so I don't really have a horse in the race anyway as the saying goes.
1
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
I love this change. So glad cryptic is putting it in.
Too bad for the botters and people selling AD 3rd party, QQ
They have said it isn't really going to do much with the botters. That's not the reason they are making these changes.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
The numbers you suggest, and even an increase in relative value at all seem to have less science behind them than fervent prayer.
What's science got to do with any of this? Or prayer for that matter? That's silly.
I guess I should point out - 'cause it does make a difference, but I've been talking about actual living breathing economies - which currently only exist on console. The PC's economy is hampered by a broken exchange.
Honestly, I'm close to not caring very much what happens. I'm just very interested in the outcome. Still, I'd like to see it work as intended 'cause I enjoy the game, and I have a lot more respect for the developers than I do for a certain portion of their playerbase.
Anyway, as I already stated, it would work best if the WB, SH, and Profession prices were adjusted, 'cause that would frankly be absurdly stupid if they weren't. If they remain at their current prices, I agree with you, that would be counterproductive because it would just deflate the Zen even more and exacerbate the current problem.
The Auction House is its own beast, but the dev's valuation of items within those areas will definitely have a bearing.
The new "relative value" of AD will relate to what it currently is to players depending on how much they currently earn.
It doesn't work like that.
Decreasing the amount of available currency only increases its value. Currently, on the console, the sliding scale you talked about works both ways. The more AD players are able to dump into the exchange, the less value it has, and the more things cost on the AH. Imagine if the devs raised the daily RAD cap to 100,000 per character instead, yeah, our Zen would trade for massive amounts of AD, but anything we bought with that AD will cost massive amounts more than it already does.
With the PC, things are a little more interesting since no matter how much AD there is piled up in the market, it's always going to sell 500:1 Zen - at least for the foreseeable future. Now if the devs do adjust AD prices in their areas of control - (which they really shouldn't until the exchange starts kicking), you've got an even better reason to purchase Zen because it'll buy even more in the AD markets.
Why do people keep saying AH prices are inflated? I'm just not seeing it.
I’m not sure anybody but me said prices were inflated, but… as I said above: “Sometimes it’s hard to conceptually distinguish between the value of a currency, and the value of the things priced in that currency.”
So to consider some of your examples…. Enchants/runestones/bondings had 2 ranks added to them, and the need to “fuse” them was eliminated, thus drastically reducing the demand for them. Hence, prices, especially prices of the low level ones, dropped. That’s supply-and-demand.
Mounts and weapon/armor enchants seem to vary mostly with whether they’re in lockboxes. Will-O’-Wisp, for example, used to sell for 1.2 million AD, but it’s recently been as low as … 30,000 or so? … because it’s in the current lockbox. Again, supply-and-demand.
The Siege Master, on the other hand, is currently offered on the AH at 788,888 AD, which is equivalent to 1578 Zen at 500:1. But its Zen store price is only 1200 Zen. That’s the same sign of an inflated currency (AD) as I was talking about with wards.
The relevant question is not the price of something compared to a past price. The relevant question is the price of a thing in one currency vs. another currency, and, perhaps, how those relative prices change over time.
Yeah but it's the same currency for the AH (AD), you can generate it even faster/easier now than before, and prices are still lower on the AH. So AH prices are NOT inflated it's just shifts in supply and demand.
Also, I just saw the Siege Master for ~680K a few days ago on PC. I was looking at it for a newer player in our guild that doesn't have his dps companions squared away. That's equal to ~1360 zen which is not too badly inflated considering the ZAX backlog is so large right now.
So the real issue is not inflation on the AH it's ZAX backlog right? I would argue that it's not as simple an argument as the backlog is high because there is too much AD, there are other factors involved there as well. First and foremost the upcoming summer zen store sale, and there have been several very unpopular nerfs over the past 8 months or so that have soured many people on spending real money on zen. Also, botting is rampant in the random dungeon queue, and I've personally seen decently geared characters that were very clearly being run by a script so actual players are using bot scripts in random dungeons not just the gold sellers.
I'm sorry I was not trying to single you out, I just don't agree with the arguments I've read that AH prices are inflated and we need this nerf to AD generation and rough AD conversion to save the economy and the ZAX, it's just not the whole story. Truth be told the nerf won't affect me that much overall right now, so I don't really have a horse in the race anyway as the saying goes.
Cutting and pasting from one of my posts from p. 8 in support of what manipulos says in regard to the AH being inflated. (Hint: It isn't.)
This isn't going to reduce the cost of items in the AH. Items of value in the AH are already undervalued relative to their AD cost to produce.
For example, this morning I looked and there were 48 Unparalleled Weapon Enchants for sale at an average of cost of ~6,033,000 AD/enchant. (Yes, I actually went through and added up all the UWEs for sale and found the average price). To the casual observer, those prices look high and that may seem like the market is out of balance and that there is too much AD in the economy. Looking at it from the perspective of how much it costs to refine each of those enchants from shards, however, shows that the AD market is self regulating because if you add up the costs of needed materials to make those UEWs (Coal Wards x7, GMoPx30, GESx9, SMoPx25, SESx9, UMoPx10, & EESx3) you're looking at a 7,884,050 AD investment--and that is assuming you have VIP and are getting the discount rate on MoPs and Enchanting Stones at the Wonderous Bazaar.
Given the 10% AH cut from a sale, you, on average, would net ~$5,400,000 at today's prices. That is a net loss of your total investment of roughly 2.5M AD for every Unparalleled Weapon Enchant in the AH. People are willing to take that type of loss now because 1) they want something else *right now*, and 2) AD are so plentiful, it is easy to make that AD back in no time so there really is no long term pain.
If you lower the circulation of AD, and increase their value, people won't be willing to take a loss like that anymore. At a minimum, (and this isn't including the cost of refinement points), to simply break even in the AH after upgrading a weapon enchant to Unparalleled and subtracting the 10% AH cut, you would have to sell those items for 8,760,056 AD.
That is a 45% increase in AH prices for big ticket items.
The current proposal, then, is doubly damaging to the casual player; not only will prices be higher to get better gear, but it will take much, much longer to actually save up to get that gear.
The other option, as I mentioned in an earlier post is that the AH will, for all intents and purposes, collapse and be replaced with a bartering economy (already somewhat thriving on the Trade chat channel) mediated by a meta-currency.
It really doens't matter to me what you do; I'll adapt.
Just understand that you are setting yourself up for some really *economy crashing* unintended consequences.
A lot of folks will get crushed by these changes...and some of us will make out like bandits.
With regard to the siege master selling for ~680,000 AD; that isn't really an inflated price one you figure in costs associated with selling it. After the AH cut of 10% of selling price, the lister only nets 612,000 AD, meaning a profit of 12,000 AD (assuming 500:1 exchange rate)--that is only a 2% profit which is what manjusriyamantak said the Fed considers "healthy" inflation.
I personally think that particular profit margin is waaaay too low to make it worth my time to tie up that much Zen and AD for the length of time it takes to process the Zax and then post the item on the AH and wait for a sale.
0
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Why do people keep saying AH prices are inflated? I'm just not seeing it.
I’m not sure anybody but me said prices were inflated, but… as I said above: “Sometimes it’s hard to conceptually distinguish between the value of a currency, and the value of the things priced in that currency.”
So to consider some of your examples…. Enchants/runestones/bondings had 2 ranks added to them, and the need to “fuse” them was eliminated, thus drastically reducing the demand for them. Hence, prices, especially prices of the low level ones, dropped. That’s supply-and-demand.
Mounts and weapon/armor enchants seem to vary mostly with whether they’re in lockboxes. Will-O’-Wisp, for example, used to sell for 1.2 million AD, but it’s recently been as low as … 30,000 or so? … because it’s in the current lockbox. Again, supply-and-demand.
The Siege Master, on the other hand, is currently offered on the AH at 788,888 AD, which is equivalent to 1578 Zen at 500:1. But its Zen store price is only 1200 Zen. That’s the same sign of an inflated currency (AD) as I was talking about with wards.
The relevant question is not the price of something compared to a past price. The relevant question is the price of a thing in one currency vs. another currency, and, perhaps, how those relative prices change over time.
Yeah but it's the same currency for the AH (AD), you can generate it even faster/easier now than before, and prices are still lower on the AH. So AH prices are NOT inflated it's just shifts in supply and demand.
Also, I just saw the Siege Master for ~680K a few days ago on PC. I was looking at it for a newer player in our guild that doesn't have his dps companions squared away. That's equal to ~1360 zen which is not too badly inflated considering the ZAX backlog is so large right now.
So the real issue is not inflation on the AH it's ZAX backlog right? I would argue that it's not as simple an argument as the backlog is high because there is too much AD, there are other factors involved there as well. First and foremost the upcoming summer zen store sale, and there have been several very unpopular nerfs over the past 8 months or so that have soured many people on spending real money on zen. Also, botting is rampant in the random dungeon queue, and I've personally seen decently geared characters that were very clearly being run by a script so actual players are using bot scripts in random dungeons not just the gold sellers.
I'm sorry I was not trying to single you out, I just don't agree with the arguments I've read that AH prices are inflated and we need this nerf to AD generation and rough AD conversion to save the economy and the ZAX, it's just not the whole story. Truth be told the nerf won't affect me that much overall right now, so I don't really have a horse in the race anyway as the saying goes.
Legendary mounts where the same price but at half the drop rate. So if we had the same drop rate as a year ago, they would have been twice as expensive. You can look at similar free market items, UES, MW materials, they are all governed by what people willing to pay. For example one unparalleled / trans enchantment is twice the listing of another and very far from the cost to make, this is due to inflation as the cost to make remains bound to marks.
If people pay 10 mil for enchantment that costs 4-5AD to make... inflation, yet ofcorse there is upper limit because the way to make is available. Lockbox drops, MW and MW legendary tools at the best example for inflation. You just need to adjust and keep in mind the drop rate change and availability of the same materials and their demand.
So with Legendary mounts drop twice as much, and keep the price, yet you can see more and more people on them.. BTW I bought my Tensers for 5mil, and that was at the old drop rate.
They have said it isn't really going to do much with the botters. That's not the reason they are making these changes.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if a botter owns just one account with 50 character slots, and they each max out their daily RAD - hey, even if they only do two random queues each - these proposed RQ and RAD caps are really going to shove a gigantic cork up their... outflows.
People now has more incentive to buy from 3rd party. This change helps them and does not affect them in a negative way at all. This change is not intended for fighting bot. Before the change, each bot account has 72K AD daily cap. After the change, each bot account has 100K Ad daily cap. Bot does not buy extra character slot.
That's discouraging.
1
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
They have said it isn't really going to do much with the botters. That's not the reason they are making these changes.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if a botter owns just one account with 50 character slots, and they each max out their daily RAD, the proposed rq and RAD caps will really shove a cork in their... outflow.
Botter's don't typically waste their Zen on character slots, from what I understand. Not when it's so much easier to just automate the account creation process.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
3
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,217Arc User
They have said it isn't really going to do much with the botters. That's not the reason they are making these changes.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if a botter owns just one account with 50 character slots, and they each max out their daily RAD, these proposed RQ and RAD caps are really going to shove a gigantic cork in their... outflow.
Botter does not buy character slots. Bot accounts are banned regularly. They don't waste money/zen on that. Botter does not need to stay in one account. They keep on creating new accounts.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
How do you change text color on this or is it a user level permission thing?
You use the following html code: (use without the space after the first and second "< ")
< font color=cyan>insert text here< /font>
cyan can be replaced with other colors, e.g. red, green, or you can use html color codes where you replace the colour with an alphanumeric hex color code e.g. #FF5733 would be orangey-red. You need # to indicate it is hexadecimal. The first two alphanumeric digits (0-9 to A-F) represent red, the next two digits green, the last two blue (i.e. RGB). FF would mean a fully saturated primary color, whereas 00 would be an absence of color. Hence '#FFFFFF' would be all white, and '#000000' would be all black.
Decreasing the amount of available currency only increases its value. Currently, on the console, the sliding scale you talked about works both ways. The more AD players are able to dump into the exchange, the less value it has, and the more things cost on the AH. Imagine if the devs raised the daily RAD cap to 100,000 per character instead, yeah, our Zen would trade for massive amounts of AD, but anything we bought with that AD will cost massive amounts more than it already does.
With the PC, things are a little more interesting since no matter how much AD there is piled up in the market, it's always going to sell 500:1 Zen - at least for the foreseeable future. Now if the devs do adjust AD prices in their areas of control - (which they really shouldn't until the exchange starts kicking), you've got an even better reason to purchase Zen because it'll buy even more in the AD markets.
Its relative to how much you earn now. If you work a job for eight hours a day, and the boss cuts your hours by 6 and increases your wage by 40%, the loss of earnings is relative to what you earned over eight hours. Technically the dollar value has increased, but you are earning less. Relatively you are also earning less than the guy who was previously working only two hours and gets the same forty percent.
Each individual player will see their relative earnings affected differently. It is the take home pay that matters, not the generic unit price. It won't matter that a certain runestone is cheaper on the AH if their current earning rate only allows them to buy two, when they could afford three when they were more expensive. That's the relative value that will screw people at a direct ratio to how much they had previously invested in wealth gain. All in a bid to get cash rich players to buy more Zen and trade it at a lower price than they are used to.
If the devs can't see the toxic environment that will foster between them and some of their most ardent hardcore players, then its something they might want to consider.
Its relative to how much you earn now. If you work a job for eight hours a day, and the boss cuts your hours by 6 and increases your wage by 40%, the loss of earnings is relative to what you earned over eight hours. Technically the dollar value has increased, but you are earning less. Relatively you are also earning less than the guy who was previously working only two hours and gets the same forty percent.
Each individual player will see their relative earnings affected differently. It is the take home pay that matters, not the generic unit price. It won't matter that a certain runestone is cheaper on the AH if their current earning rate only allows them to buy two, when they could afford three when they were more expensive.
I see what you mean now.
You know, in a way this is kind of like watching the gold rush come to an end.
I was pondering, what about a merchant's fee for using the ZAX unidirectionally (AD to Zen)? like a 2% charge e.g. at the current rate of 1:500, to purchase 1 Zen it would cost the buyer 510 AD (rounded up to the nearest integer), whereby 500 AD goes to the Zen seller, and 10 AD is consumed by the ZAX. The ZAX is a very useful feature for all players, but there is no fee for using it. This would be an easy to implement AD sink, make exchanging Zen more attractive rather than the other way around, and at 2% should not significantly hinder the ability to purchase Zen items via the ZAX. However, it could be a slippery slope in 'taxing' the AD. It could be trialled to see if it would work, or abandoned just as quickly if there was too much of a backlash i.e. if people voted with their feet and left the game.
Why do people keep saying AH prices are inflated? I'm just not seeing it.
I’m not sure anybody but me said prices were inflated, but… as I said above: “Sometimes it’s hard to conceptually distinguish between the value of a currency, and the value of the things priced in that currency.”
So to consider some of your examples…. Enchants/runestones/bondings had 2 ranks added to them, and the need to “fuse” them was eliminated, thus drastically reducing the demand for them. Hence, prices, especially prices of the low level ones, dropped. That’s supply-and-demand.
Mounts and weapon/armor enchants seem to vary mostly with whether they’re in lockboxes. Will-O’-Wisp, for example, used to sell for 1.2 million AD, but it’s recently been as low as … 30,000 or so? … because it’s in the current lockbox. Again, supply-and-demand.
The Siege Master, on the other hand, is currently offered on the AH at 788,888 AD, which is equivalent to 1578 Zen at 500:1. But its Zen store price is only 1200 Zen. That’s the same sign of an inflated currency (AD) as I was talking about with wards.
The relevant question is not the price of something compared to a past price. The relevant question is the price of a thing in one currency vs. another currency, and, perhaps, how those relative prices change over time.
this is all different on xbox. things on the zen store either sell right to 30 percent under the conversion price or severely under it if it's not a hugely popular item.
Its relative to how much you earn now. If you work a job for eight hours a day, and the boss cuts your hours by 6 and increases your wage by 40%, the loss of earnings is relative to what you earned over eight hours. Technically the dollar value has increased, but you are earning less. Relatively you are also earning less than the guy who was previously working only two hours and gets the same forty percent.
Each individual player will see their relative earnings affected differently. It is the take home pay that matters, not the generic unit price. It won't matter that a certain runestone is cheaper on the AH if their current earning rate only allows them to buy two, when they could afford three when they were more expensive.
I see what you mean now.
You know, in a way this is kind of like watching the gold rush come to an end.
this thread is just making me think I need to hoard all ad. lol. I have currently 14 mil. and I've been waiting til founders day to go nuts other than buying a legendary rex for my dc and t fey for hr.. (I make a lot of millions.. I was at 13 mil. bought leg mount made all that back plus a few mill in a few weeks bought the t fey and I currently sit at 14 mil) will that change with this change I dunno.. should I hoard now? its tempting.... quit the game for the summer come back in fall.. and that 14 mil will be worth tons more? will it be worth more than the 28 mil the sale will make it worth? hehehe
0
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
these changes are to affect the 3% of the player base that can make tons of ad on a single day(refine salvage, do weeklies and play the ah). they didnt even bother to multiply the values for each different class toon on the account, limiting that cap for each different class toon would be amazing. @noworries#8859
0
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
these changes are to affect the 3% of the player base that can make tons of ad on a single day(refine salvage, do weeklies and play the ah). they didnt even bother to multiply the values for each different class toon on the account, limiting that cap for each different class toon would be amazing. @noworries#8859
Playing the AH has nothing to do with the change at all. They are only limiting how much AD can be generated out of thin air, not how much AD you can earn per day via other means (selling stuff). The rich players will still have their big supply of AD for a while.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
these changes are to affect the 3% of the player base that can make tons of ad on a single day(refine salvage, do weeklies and play the ah). they didnt even bother to multiply the values for each different class toon on the account, limiting that cap for each different class toon would be amazing. @noworries#8859
Playing the AH has nothing to do with the change at all. They are only limiting how much AD can be generated out of thin air, not how much AD you can earn per day via other means (selling stuff). The rich players will still have their big supply of AD for a while.
Playing the AH has nothing to do with the change at all. They are only limiting how much AD can be generated out of thin air, not how much AD you can earn per day via other means (selling stuff). The rich players will still have their big supply of AD for a while.
Generated out of thin air. rADs are generated by dungeons runs/salvages right? I didnt know this was considered "thin air" in a game based on dungeons and dragons.
I was pondering, what about a merchant's fee for using the ZAX unidirectionally (AD to Zen)? like a 2% charge e.g. at the current rate of 1:500, to purchase 1 Zen it would cost the buyer 510 AD (rounded up to the nearest integer), whereby 500 AD goes to the Zen seller, and 10 AD is consumed by the ZAX. The ZAX is a very useful feature for all players, but there is no fee for using it. This would be an easy to implement AD sink, make exchanging Zen more attractive rather than the other way around, and at 2% should not significantly hinder the ability to purchase Zen items via the ZAX. However, it could be a slippery slope in 'taxing' the AD. It could be trialled to see if it would work, or abandoned just as quickly if there was too much of a backlash i.e. if people voted with their feet and left the game.
Discuss.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Yeah, it's not going to be a popular thing by any stretch of imagination. I was hesitant to write it down.. But do I want to see the ZAX improved? Yes.
Comments
Add random +4 IG companion items to the mysterious merchant that cost, I don't know, 500k ad or whatever suitable amount, no GM cost. It will also increase the interest in the mysterious merchant since as of now it has only one, or maybe 2 items that people actually might want. Could even be new companion items, with comparable power to mod 13 rings, currently the best companion gear there is.
Too bad for the botters and people selling AD 3rd party, QQ
Before the change, each bot account has 72K AD daily cap.
After the change, each bot account has 100K Ad daily cap.
Bot does not buy extra character slot.
Also, I just saw the Siege Master for ~680K a few days ago on PC. I was looking at it for a newer player in our guild that doesn't have his dps companions squared away. That's equal to ~1360 zen which is not too badly inflated considering the ZAX backlog is so large right now.
So the real issue is not inflation on the AH it's ZAX backlog right? I would argue that it's not as simple an argument as the backlog is high because there is too much AD, there are other factors involved there as well. First and foremost the upcoming summer zen store sale, and there have been several very unpopular nerfs over the past 8 months or so that have soured many people on spending real money on zen. Also, botting is rampant in the random dungeon queue, and I've personally seen decently geared characters that were very clearly being run by a script so actual players are using bot scripts in random dungeons not just the gold sellers.
I'm sorry I was not trying to single you out, I just don't agree with the arguments I've read that AH prices are inflated and we need this nerf to AD generation and rough AD conversion to save the economy and the ZAX, it's just not the whole story. Truth be told the nerf won't affect me that much overall right now, so I don't really have a horse in the race anyway as the saying goes.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
I guess I should point out - 'cause it does make a difference, but I've been talking about actual living breathing economies - which currently only exist on console. The PC's economy is hampered by a broken exchange.
Honestly, I'm close to not caring very much what happens. I'm just very interested in the outcome. Still, I'd like to see it work as intended 'cause I enjoy the game, and I have a lot more respect for the developers than I do for a certain portion of their playerbase.
Anyway, as I already stated, it would work best if the WB, SH, and Profession prices were adjusted, 'cause that would frankly be absurdly stupid if they weren't. If they remain at their current prices, I agree with you, that would be counterproductive because it would just deflate the Zen even more and exacerbate the current problem.
The Auction House is its own beast, but the dev's valuation of items within those areas will definitely have a bearing. It doesn't work like that.
Decreasing the amount of available currency only increases its value.
Currently, on the console, the sliding scale you talked about works both ways. The more AD players are able to dump into the exchange, the less value it has, and the more things cost on the AH. Imagine if the devs raised the daily RAD cap to 100,000 per character instead, yeah, our Zen would trade for massive amounts of AD, but anything we bought with that AD will cost massive amounts more than it already does.
With the PC, things are a little more interesting since no matter how much AD there is piled up in the market, it's always going to sell 500:1 Zen - at least for the foreseeable future. Now if the devs do adjust AD prices in their areas of control - (which they really shouldn't until the exchange starts kicking), you've got an even better reason to purchase Zen because it'll buy even more in the AD markets.
This isn't going to reduce the cost of items in the AH. Items of value in the AH are already undervalued relative to their AD cost to produce.
For example, this morning I looked and there were 48 Unparalleled Weapon Enchants for sale at an average of cost of ~6,033,000 AD/enchant. (Yes, I actually went through and added up all the UWEs for sale and found the average price). To the casual observer, those prices look high and that may seem like the market is out of balance and that there is too much AD in the economy. Looking at it from the perspective of how much it costs to refine each of those enchants from shards, however, shows that the AD market is self regulating because if you add up the costs of needed materials to make those UEWs (Coal Wards x7, GMoPx30, GESx9, SMoPx25, SESx9, UMoPx10, & EESx3) you're looking at a 7,884,050 AD investment--and that is assuming you have VIP and are getting the discount rate on MoPs and Enchanting Stones at the Wonderous Bazaar.
Given the 10% AH cut from a sale, you, on average, would net ~$5,400,000 at today's prices. That is a net loss of your total investment of roughly 2.5M AD for every Unparalleled Weapon Enchant in the AH. People are willing to take that type of loss now because 1) they want something else *right now*, and 2) AD are so plentiful, it is easy to make that AD back in no time so there really is no long term pain.
If you lower the circulation of AD, and increase their value, people won't be willing to take a loss like that anymore. At a minimum, (and this isn't including the cost of refinement points), to simply break even in the AH after upgrading a weapon enchant to Unparalleled and subtracting the 10% AH cut, you would have to sell those items for 8,760,056 AD.
That is a 45% increase in AH prices for big ticket items.
The current proposal, then, is doubly damaging to the casual player; not only will prices be higher to get better gear, but it will take much, much longer to actually save up to get that gear.
The other option, as I mentioned in an earlier post is that the AH will, for all intents and purposes, collapse and be replaced with a bartering economy (already somewhat thriving on the Trade chat channel) mediated by a meta-currency.
It really doens't matter to me what you do; I'll adapt.
Just understand that you are setting yourself up for some really *economy crashing* unintended consequences.
A lot of folks will get crushed by these changes...and some of us will make out like bandits.
With regard to the siege master selling for ~680,000 AD; that isn't really an inflated price one you figure in costs associated with selling it. After the AH cut of 10% of selling price, the lister only nets 612,000 AD, meaning a profit of 12,000 AD (assuming 500:1 exchange rate)--that is only a 2% profit which is what manjusriyamantak said the Fed considers "healthy" inflation.
I personally think that particular profit margin is waaaay too low to make it worth my time to tie up that much Zen and AD for the length of time it takes to process the Zax and then post the item on the AH and wait for a sale.
You can look at similar free market items, UES, MW materials, they are all governed by what people willing to pay. For example one unparalleled / trans enchantment is twice the listing of another and very far from the cost to make, this is due to inflation as the cost to make remains bound to marks.
If people pay 10 mil for enchantment that costs 4-5AD to make... inflation, yet ofcorse there is upper limit because the way to make is available.
Lockbox drops, MW and MW legendary tools at the best example for inflation. You just need to adjust and keep in mind the drop rate change and availability of the same materials and their demand.
So with Legendary mounts drop twice as much, and keep the price, yet you can see more and more people on them..
BTW I bought my Tensers for 5mil, and that was at the old drop rate.
Edit: Nevermind - just saw this: That's discouraging.
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Does no one else feel the pain?
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cyan can be replaced with other colors, e.g. red, green, or you can use html color codes where you replace the colour with an alphanumeric hex color code e.g. #FF5733 would be orangey-red. You need # to indicate it is hexadecimal. The first two alphanumeric digits (0-9 to A-F) represent red, the next two digits green, the last two blue (i.e. RGB). FF would mean a fully saturated primary color, whereas 00 would be an absence of color. Hence '#FFFFFF' would be all white, and '#000000' would be all black.
Just don't go all crazy with them colors!.
If you work a job for eight hours a day, and the boss cuts your hours by 6 and increases your wage by 40%, the loss of earnings is relative to what you earned over eight hours. Technically the dollar value has increased, but you are earning less.
Relatively you are also earning less than the guy who was previously working only two hours and gets the same forty percent.
Each individual player will see their relative earnings affected differently.
It is the take home pay that matters, not the generic unit price.
It won't matter that a certain runestone is cheaper on the AH if their current earning rate only allows them to buy two, when they could afford three when they were more expensive.
That's the relative value that will screw people at a direct ratio to how much they had previously invested in wealth gain. All in a bid to get cash rich players to buy more Zen and trade it at a lower price than they are used to.
If the devs can't see the toxic environment that will foster between them and some of their most ardent hardcore players, then its something they might want to consider.
You know, in a way this is kind of like watching the gold rush come to an end.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
this is all different on xbox. things on the zen store either sell right to 30 percent under the conversion price or severely under it if it's not a hugely popular item.
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I didnt know this was considered "thin air" in a game based on dungeons and dragons.