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OFFICIAL FEEDBACK THREAD: Changes to Random Queues

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  • hercules125hercules125 Member Posts: 427 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    1. The 100k limit per account is way too low. That pretty much kills the playing of alts, beyond maybe 2.

    2. I dont like bunching skirmishes, trials, and dungeons into the same queue. They need to be kept separate. They play completely different, and have different time requirements. They also have different group requirements. Whoever thought this was a good idea should not be in design.

    3. I DO NOT (EMPHATICALLY) like limiting the reward for a specific queue to just one character. That is beyond ridiculous and forces you to get most of your AD through salvage.
  • fogcrowfogcrow Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    No Dugeon Delve hour of any form please, I still remember, and hate, how it used to put ppl who do not posses "absolute freedom" IRL at an extreme disadvantage.

    Also I would much appreaciate if we had the option to exclude one queue we would like to avoid in a RQ. I´d pick CoDG, since I don´t want to kill anything associated with the concept of "baby".
  • chidionchidion Member Posts: 422 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    There appears to be a lot of cross topic posting here, specifically regarding the GAME'S AD changes -vs- RQ changes...

    Since there is already another thread specific to the Astral Diamonds topic I'm going to limit my comments here to the other Random Queue changes and I hope others follow suit.

    The official feedback thread for discussing AD's can be found here: OFFICIAL FEEDBACK THREAD: ASTRAL DIAMONDS

    First of all: Categories Reworked
    According to the OP in part the intent and purpose for introducing RQ's was to "to increase the variety of queued content run by providing rewards for running various types of content" however after "observing" player behavior and comments regarding random queues a decision was made to: "reduce the number of random queues"...

    Odd that (IMO) since from what I've read a lot of the complaints tend to be toward too few random queues in many cases throwing very high character and item level players and very low character and item level players together in those runs, players often with very different purposes for running the given content ie: first timers with players looking to pick up items and gear to improve their characters and players who are interested in running the content just for AD's.

    So instead of making more content available and specific for different levels of players someone has decided to reduce the content, still with very high level players running with very low level players and impose restrictions touted as increases (to be fair both claims are accurate) on the reward bonuses for running that content.

    This still does not address the displeasure some faster, high level players have expressed at having to run content with slower, lower level players - or the concerns expressed by some lower level characters having to run with higher level characters. Nor does it address the disparity of characters running Random Queues for the content -vs- those only interested in running Random Queues solely for astral diamonds.

    In my own bit of cross posting, I do agree with most of the Daily Bonus Now Per Account (particularly the AD changes) as they pertain to Random Queues if only for the hope that it will help bring better earnings and stasis to the Neverwinter economy. Also do I have major issue with the changes regarding Adjustments to Stronghold Quests or Adjustments to Queue Requirements, but to be honest many of those proposed changes do not directly apply to my character's play-style.

    But as always those are just my own personal expressed opinions I do not intend nor pretend to speak for other players.
  • notorious#4723 notorious Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    I normally dont post in the forums but I have this time to protest the AD changes. As a long time player the only thing I really have left to do in the game is far salvage and farm the current endgame dungeon. I would make my 100k limit within 2 hours. Then I would have nothing else to do in Neverwinter for the rest of the day. Please dont do it.
  • snottysnotty Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 476 Arc User

    snotty said:

    Please remove IG from RQs period. All it has done is make everyone angry. I run RQ for the AD so the faster the run is over the better. Now Im basicaly being held hostage because the rest have decided they want a gold run. So my choices are to either join in the action for the rest of the run I didnt agree to which makes me angry or just sit there and not help which makes the others angry.

    Also, can you shorten the vote kick timer to 5 minutes?. It's really annoying when you spawn in and someone deicded to simply log off so they dont get the leaver penalty and the rest have to sit and wait 15 minutes before we can even start the run like on ToDG, PoM, IG. Or when we get to the final boss in any dungeon.

    If you disconnect you do get the leaver penalty.
    well that's nice but it still doesn't do anything about having to wait 15 mins to kick someone just so we can start or end the run.
    Either kick cooldown needs to be lowered to 5 mins or disconnects need to automatically booted after 5 mins. Thereis no good reason the rest of us that are playing by the rules should have our time wasted just because someone else doesn't want to run the random dungeon they got.
  • athena#9205 athena Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    onodrain said:


    Can we have it so that when a character kills a THOON HULK, an imp from the 9th circle of hell comes and binds them, then drags them screaming into the abyss? Or crucifies them on the Tree of Woe?

    Thats funny. I like it. The problem is, that the cut scene tells you exactly what to do with the hulks. A good solution to this issue, imo, is to make that cutscene un-cancelable for the first time players for that version of throne. The rest of us can continue on as before with one person standing still watching the cutscene.
    I personally have killed a hulk a couple times by accident because the dragged me into theyre vortex right as i was unleashing my heaviest attack on a mob group nearby. Since my HR trapper uses DOT, once i hit the hulks life just 'flushed' away. I've been more careful since.
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    lowjohn said:

    r000kie said:


    asterdahl said:

    We also made a major change to leaver penalty with this update. Leaver penalty will now be account wide, and logging onto second character while the first is in a public queue with leaver penalty active will now boot the first character and inflict leaver penalty.

    While penalize the characters switching out of queue is to be commended, the account wide penalty is extreme. You mean of I get that dreadful, fix-timed, gold-bugged POM and leave the team, it will make all my avas penalized? NOT good, look into the most deserted queues and fix it (removing the timers would be a start).
    Yes, if you abandon your team and leave them to take longer to finish the easy queue that you just don't like, you can't do something else QUEUED for 30 minutes.

    Either suck it up and go run dailies/weeklies/stronghold stuff for 30 minutes, or stay and spend the 10 minutes it takes to lose at PoM because 3/5 of the players on your team decided not to help and make it take 6 minutes to win.
    There are a few logical faults in this argument. The first one is, that you think, that the leaver is abandoning his party. For once, why should he leave? He can just stick around and wait for a vote kick, wasting even more time. Furthermore, some ppl leave, bc they dont want to carry a bunch of AFK freeloaders, so you will now get an account wide penalty, if you dont want to waste your time for them. Last but not least, some ppl will stop using random que with this new rules. As it is, I do random ques maybe once or twice a week. If I get a bad group or AFK 'players' I leave the group and switch chars. With this new rules I will not do random ques, period. Why should I? for a few thousand AD with the risk, to be held hostage by a group of min IL players, who hope, that I can carry them? This makes random que even less attractive for geared players.

    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • lowjohnlowjohn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User
    asterotg said:

    lowjohn said:

    r000kie said:


    asterdahl said:

    We also made a major change to leaver penalty with this update. Leaver penalty will now be account wide, and logging onto second character while the first is in a public queue with leaver penalty active will now boot the first character and inflict leaver penalty.

    While penalize the characters switching out of queue is to be commended, the account wide penalty is extreme. You mean of I get that dreadful, fix-timed, gold-bugged POM and leave the team, it will make all my avas penalized? NOT good, look into the most deserted queues and fix it (removing the timers would be a start).
    Yes, if you abandon your team and leave them to take longer to finish the easy queue that you just don't like, you can't do something else QUEUED for 30 minutes.

    Either suck it up and go run dailies/weeklies/stronghold stuff for 30 minutes, or stay and spend the 10 minutes it takes to lose at PoM because 3/5 of the players on your team decided not to help and make it take 6 minutes to win.
    There are a few logical faults in this argument. The first one is, that you think, that the leaver is abandoning his party. For once, why should he leave? He can just stick around and wait for a vote kick, wasting even more time. Furthermore, some ppl leave, bc they dont want to carry a bunch of AFK freeloaders, so you will now get an account wide penalty, if you dont want to waste your time for them. Last but not least, some ppl will stop using random que with this new rules. As it is, I do random ques maybe once or twice a week. If I get a bad group or AFK 'players' I leave the group and switch chars. With this new rules I will not do random ques, period. Why should I? for a few thousand AD with the risk, to be held hostage by a group of min IL players, who hope, that I can carry them? This makes random que even less attractive for geared players.
    #1: The leaver *is* abandoning his party, regardless of whether or not the party is worthy of abandonement. And sure, AFKers sitting doing nothing is a problem, but *right now* what they do is switch toons and requeue, then when they come back either they get the win without playing or the queue ended without a penalty for them so they requeue again. Forcing them to either play the queue *or* AFK, waiting, doing nothing, is an improvement on the current system. Because AFKing is boring and sucks, and will encourage them to contribute instead.

    #2: If you don't want to AFK for 10 minutes or fight for six minutes, you get a 30 minute penalty. Seems fair. Also, it would be better if you get a penalty for the 10 minute AFK, too, but baby steps. STO has something like that - if you don't do some minimum activity for a minimum percentage of the time a queue runs compared to your party, you get marked as having not contributed and get no rewards. There's ONE queue where if you queue up with the very best DPSers in the game and they work hard at DPSing and you aren't very good, you can get the AFK penalty while trying to contribute, but that's super-rare and basically requires you to carefully build a group around the idea of them doing it to you.

    #3: Some people will stop doing random queues because they can't abandon parties consequence-free? Good. That's *a good thing*. People who abandon parties that might be slow are bad, and if they stop doing that and their spaces are taken by harder-working and maybe-lower-geared people, that's a good change.

    Personally, I don't mind carrying a party. The occasional run where *nobody* is being carried is a mad bonus.
  • tigerdrsk#8993 tigerdrsk Member Posts: 96 Arc User

    So mod 14 will pretty much kill the alts. Everyone will be earning RAD as if they had one toon. And everyone will take penalty as if they had one toon. The only benefit of having alts is a marginal role bonus. Heck of a way to level the playing field between the have-alts and the have nots.

    The benefit of having alts is variety of game play and being able to switch to a different char if the group needs it. It should never have become a vehicle for making more AD.
    I beg your pardon? So if you are a dps class and you expect the healer class or tank class not to make money to take on that role to help you out? Sorry my time is money like everyone else's. Everything we do should lead up to some progression. Be it my time to heal or block for you since I can't use my dps class so you get your moment to shine on the battlefield because you are too lazy to change classes. I adapted by multi classing. You just want to play 1 and done. Those that were salty with the multi character people for actually investing in more classes than one to rule them all types shouldn't be penalized for your elitist playstyle. Good luck getting queues being that asinine.
  • tigerdrsk#8993 tigerdrsk Member Posts: 96 Arc User
    Sorry but I feel any character I run especially the fact you took private queuing away has made me had to work with people to even make ad in the first place and the fact of the matter is no matter the dungeon I've had to carry people regardless of how high their gs simply by skill level with mechanics alone. There's plenty of us that multi class and deserve the fact of for our time we get the money for it. We helped create your economy by making sure other people got their AD too.

    If you want to do 100k I could be down with it, and others as well due to burnout on dungeon runs, but the matter remains is it should not dampen how people want to play. On average to run a dungeon can take on normals anywhere from 8 - 10 mins average and that's coming from ps4 and longer to 20 depending on the new comers I guide day to day when I ran. On a good day, I probably ran 20 dungeons most because it just simply takes too much time with random queues and burnout gets severe while also having a normal life. It can take anywhere from 3 -4 hours for 20 characters on average. Good day 6 dungeons an hours, bad day maybe 3? So I don't already do it as often, and still made a fair and reasonable ad. Maybe more than 100k but not to the specs that maybe 1% are going to push all 50 characters through. I have 50 characters but may only send my choosing of which I want to play up to about ten or so depending on the time I have to play in a day. Epics not only are a drag on but bore out quickly due to how big the grind is on a payoff and that you still keep the drastically low drop rates making them not worth opening chests at all even with my vip key stockpile. Over 1k now on 50 characters. I suggest you keep the daily amount for people that want to run up to the 100k. Make it so you can make 100k unhindered, but then you see that massive drop to near nothing instead. Start finding better ways to sink ad back into the game and not just the zen store. I made suggestions in your AD thread already. You only made a handful of dungeons, but expect people to like the ones that are just garbage to run with incentive for AD.

    I get it you want money, but at the same time console wise already paid it with my full price dragonborn race pack and then the sale champion of the north pack. That's the price of a full game collector's edition easy these days and to say I feel everything else game wise should be self contained. I don't seek to gamble to progress, nor does many else, yet that's how bad you have the game do it. Most of us aren't going to care to buy zen when you destroy the means we use for some progression.

    Your current model is make a new lockbox, make a mediocre campaign to slog through with maybe 1 broken dungeon or skirmish that needs player testing. In that, the lockbox items clog the marketplace because in the end it's all the same HAMSTER and it's all we are allowed to sell now. You bind items to account that could be sold on Auction House to alleviate the ZAX and the reason why people run so many dungeons BECAUSE you did that. I used to farm valley of dragons and then SKT instead of dungeons to make my AD like a normal game with LOOT you are supposed to be able to sell to a game economy to progress. Instead, you locked that all out just to force the lockbox mechanic which is why your economy looks like this. You need free people to buy things and also make the AD so those that do spend money to get zen can get those items. Just as much as the free people need the zen people to keep the game going. People need items to sell. You worry on item devaluing, but if you make mods like this to make items obsolete every time, they have a far less chance to deteriorate as quick as you think. Most people want to make money and i remember when turtle moult was 40k per one. Now it's maybe 1k for example.

    If anything salvage should be nerfed so we can sell items again in the AH. Make +3 rings to +5 non salvageable and tradeable. Only +1 and +2 rings should be allowed to have this.

    Make hunt items old and new also sellable in the ah. Make stones for SKT account bound in campaign store and in the dungeon able to be tradable on the AH.

    Allow us to upgrade with AD our old equipment with special items and special leveling refinement so if we like an old set as far as elemental evil and underdark, we can upgrade them too to 500 then 520 and beyond.

    Make other item sets so Orcus is not the the prime set to use. Allow us to upgrade the ones we like here as well for artifact equipment to return their value. Also possibly use this opportunity since you have so few dungeons to add special drops by special chest if need be to be farmed to upgrade old equipment. This allows great variation and again furthers AD sinks and player involvement to stay relevant and not discard all that work we did do if we like our items. I personally like the gwf's skt item set and would love to keep it, once i can actually upgrade it.

    Allow all mounts from uncommon to be upgraded all the way to legendary and make special mount class mount powers. For example wolves could summon packs, horses do their own thing, bears and spiders, etc.

    Retire legendary beholder tank to resurgence pack and introduce epic version without combat power that has a higher droprate in the campaign.

    Severing that link by imposing harsh standards on those of us that actually play the game in our own ways to adapt, but also contribute to your community and economy shouldn't be punished. You drive us away, your game dies. Mod 14 you will see a massive exodus of most of the players that do like using more characters simply to play the game more than one way and like the characters they have. On PC there probably is more players that have only 1 character per account because it's so much easier to make more accounts so that limit doesn't effect them. It effects console players more because we have achievements tied to them, along with other things and we're far less prone to making more accounts because of that. In fact, offer more items in the PSN or xbox marketplace instead of in game and you'll make far more profit.
  • chidionchidion Member Posts: 422 Arc User

    I normally dont post in the forums but I have this time to protest the AD changes. As a long time player the only thing I really have left to do in the game is far salvage and farm the current endgame dungeon. I would make my 100k limit within 2 hours. Then I would have nothing else to do in Neverwinter for the rest of the day. Please dont do it.

    So if the only thing that interests you in Neverwinter is accumulating more in game wealth and I suspect from your statement, using that accumulated wealth to earn more in game wealth why are you still here? Has just repetitiously farming for AD's been "fun" for you?

    It seems to me the majority of people who are complaining about the changes to the random queue center their complaints around not being able to acquire as many AD's as they could previously... and that's it.

    Perhaps you would garner more sympathy to your cause if you took the time to explain your purpose for the acquisition of so many astral diamonds...

    Are you purchasing epic and legendary items and gifting them to random players In Neverwinter?
    Are you the primary financial support for dozens of other players (not in your own account)?
    Perhaps you're using your accumulated wealth to produce profession masterworks items for less than the outrageously high prices we usually see those items listed for as an act of benevolence?

    Or are you using your in game wealth to buy more "stuff" for yourself, or maybe using that in game wealth to by low and sell high in the Auction House artificially inflating prices for everyone else?

    I do apologize for my apparent lack of sympathy toward someone who can, by your own admission, currently make 100,000 astral diamonds in a couple of hours... I would think you are one of the luck ones as opposed to the players who do have other things to do in the game and don't even come close to acquiring 100,000 AD's along with the other things their playable characters have to accomplish.

    We all have our priorities and for many players, including myself, it is more about playing the game, completing quests and obtaining better gear and items that will allow us to progress to new areas and more efficiently play the game.

    On a personal note, if "the only thing I have left to do", is accumulate more personal wealth to enable me to accumulate even more personal wealth, that is far from my personal definition of "fun" and perhaps I might consider starting a character for Star Trek Online or one of the other Cryptic games and just check back on Neverwinter every now and then to see if their are any new changes or MOD's I'd be interested in exploring.

    But then maybe that's just me...
    snotty said:

    snotty said:

    Please remove IG from RQs period. All it has done is make everyone angry. I run RQ for the AD so the faster the run is over the better. Now Im basicaly being held hostage because the rest have decided they want a gold run. So my choices are to either join in the action for the rest of the run I didnt agree to which makes me angry or just sit there and not help which makes the others angry.

    Also, can you shorten the vote kick timer to 5 minutes?. It's really annoying when you spawn in and someone deicded to simply log off so they dont get the leaver penalty and the rest have to sit and wait 15 minutes before we can even start the run like on ToDG, PoM, IG. Or when we get to the final boss in any dungeon.

    If you disconnect you do get the leaver penalty.
    well that's nice but it still doesn't do anything about having to wait 15 mins to kick someone just so we can start or end the run.
    Either kick cooldown needs to be lowered to 5 mins or disconnects need to automatically booted after 5 mins. Thereis no good reason the rest of us that are playing by the rules should have our time wasted just because someone else doesn't want to run the random dungeon they got.
    One note about the Random Queue, specifically as it pertains to the Illusionist's Gambit and the Prophecy of Madness...

    I would second the request to remove IG and PoM from the Random Que, particularly since few lower level or lesser geared players are able to survive those multi-tiered contests, let alone feel comfortable "going for gold".

    Speaking for my lower level characters, I much prefer to participate in random content - not spend the majority of my time repeatedly re-materializing at the healing circle, running back into the fray after being laid low... and I suspect other players would find it beneficial to have a player who is better equipped to contribute to the success of that content or even "go for gold" if that is what they intend.

    As to making the kick timer shorter, I realize for some people it is about running content to accumulate astral diamonds as quickly as possible... however since not everyone in random content is always going to share "it's only about the AD's" attitude, I personally think the current 15 minutes is fine and dandy. If some a player's sole concern is accumulating astral diamonds, perhaps they can find some content that allows them to do so that does not have a built in 15 minute cool down timer to remove players who aren't all about the AD's.
    asterotg said:

    lowjohn said:

    r000kie said:


    asterdahl said:

    We also made a major change to leaver penalty with this update. Leaver penalty will now be account wide, and logging onto second character while the first is in a public queue with leaver penalty active will now boot the first character and inflict leaver penalty.

    While penalize the characters switching out of queue is to be commended, the account wide penalty is extreme. You mean of I get that dreadful, fix-timed, gold-bugged POM and leave the team, it will make all my avas penalized? NOT good, look into the most deserted queues and fix it (removing the timers would be a start).
    Yes, if you abandon your team and leave them to take longer to finish the easy queue that you just don't like, you can't do something else QUEUED for 30 minutes.

    Either suck it up and go run dailies/weeklies/stronghold stuff for 30 minutes, or stay and spend the 10 minutes it takes to lose at PoM because 3/5 of the players on your team decided not to help and make it take 6 minutes to win.
    There are a few logical faults in this argument. The first one is, that you think, that the leaver is abandoning his party. For once, why should he leave? He can just stick around and wait for a vote kick, wasting even more time. Furthermore, some ppl leave, bc they dont want to carry a bunch of AFK freeloaders, so you will now get an account wide penalty, if you dont want to waste your time for them. Last but not least, some ppl will stop using random que with this new rules. As it is, I do random ques maybe once or twice a week. If I get a bad group or AFK 'players' I leave the group and switch chars. With this new rules I will not do random ques, period. Why should I? for a few thousand AD with the risk, to be held hostage by a group of min IL players, who hope, that I can carry them? This makes random que even less attractive for geared players.

    Again from my personal perspective I greatly applaud Cryptic's making the leaver penalty account wide instead of just per character. In my book anyone that intentionally abandons other people depending on them for the success of the mission, is not anyone deserving of any sympathy or consideration, and I feel the same way about players who just AFK and refuse to participate in any content with the hopes of being kicked out and avoiding a leaver penalty.

    Once again I personally believe the problem isn't with the game, so much as it is with player attitude and behavior... when playing one of my low level characters in a random queue where I know I'm in way over my head, I'll still try to do my best and I'd hope other players would do similarly instead of intentionally or by spite, HAMSTER up the game for everyone else.

    For the players who say they will no longer participate in random content because their ability to earn a lot of AD's quickly enough has been hampered...

    As the penguin said:

    image

    "Just smile and wave (good-bye) boys, smile and wave..."

  • rickcase276rickcase276 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,403 Arc User
    I will just love to see it when a person that likes to run through the leveling dungeon, and does not come to the forums, goes into one of them next mod and realizes they can no longer just run through them anymore. But gear did need to be normalized in these types of content.
  • lowjohnlowjohn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User

    So mod 14 will pretty much kill the alts. Everyone will be earning RAD as if they had one toon. And everyone will take penalty as if they had one toon. The only benefit of having alts is a marginal role bonus. Heck of a way to level the playing field between the have-alts and the have nots.

    The benefit of having alts is variety of game play and being able to switch to a different char if the group needs it. It should never have become a vehicle for making more AD.
    I beg your pardon? So if you are a dps class and you expect the healer class or tank class not to make money to take on that role to help you out?
    That's not what he said.

    What he said was that the reason to HAVE a healer/tank/dps alt is to allow you to play healer/tank/dps, not for you to get "new player" bonuses three times every day.

    Sorry my time is money like everyone else's. Everything we do should lead up to some progression. Be it my time to heal or block for you since I can't use my dps class so you get your moment to shine on the battlefield because you are too lazy to change classes. I adapted by multi classing. You just want to play 1 and done. Those that were salty with the multi character people for actually investing in more classes than one to rule them all types shouldn't be penalized for your elitist playstyle. Good luck getting queues being that asinine.

    See, I ALMOST sympathised with you there, since I main a 17.5K DC and maintain a 17K GF and 16.5K GWF and 16K CW for when my DC isn't needed or already got a daily.

    But you've missed his point: The goal of allowing alts, from a gamerunning perspective, has always been to let players play more by letting them take on different roles when needed. The CURRENT situation encourages people to take on whatever role their current toon is, once a day, and to NOT run any given Toon/role combo more than once. The change encourages them to swap healer/tank/DPS as needed. The current situation ALSO encourages people to speedrun lowbie dungeons while abusing actual lowbies and to queue for L70 content using ungeared trash alts they don't know how to play.

    In practice, the ACTUAL purpose of alts currently is to allow you to get multiple "1/day" rewards by being carried and to farm professions, without playing. Neither of those is actually good for the game.
  • lowjohnlowjohn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User

    I will just love to see it when a person that likes to run through the leveling dungeon, and does not come to the forums, goes into one of them next mod and realizes they can no longer just run through them anymore. But gear did need to be normalized in these types of content.

    If you could ignore the mobs before, you can beat them now. They're just hardER, not hard.

    If you barely beat levelling dungeons before, and don't pay attention to patch notes, and don't notice new modules, and don't notice how the daily rules have changed...... you'll get carried by a real L70 doing his 1/day levelling dungeon for AD. No problem.

    Next?
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User

    1. The 100k limit per account is way too low. That pretty much kills the playing of alts, beyond maybe 2.

    Actually, that's not not necessarily true.
    The 100K daily cap is likely to be a tough ask on one or two characters on an ongoing basis.
    If you run, say, 8 toons, you can rotate them on a daily basis and get 8 days worth of Invoke RAD bonus stacks, and run their weeklies on the same day you run them through the RQs for RAD. That will require a lot less ancillary RAD sourcing on the same one or two toons.

    I figured that if I do it this way I'll run at most three Random Queues per day compared to the eighteen to twenty I currently run across 8 toons. With the usual couple of extras of my choice for salvage/seals. Obviously I'll be earning FAR fewer AD, but I won't have to spend nearly as much time involved in the deepening mess that is Random Queues.

  • athena#9205 athena Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    ok that made no sense what so ever. The new categories rAD amounts hardly changed. But now instead of spending 2 hours on 5 characters running two RQ each to gain my 100k, I'll spend that same amount of time doing RQ to gain half plus salvage from areas like throne. I'm predicting that it will be much much harder to reach the same rAD amounts per day than i had before.

    repeated leveling queue is 1000 rAD per run. average 7 min = roughly 8000 rAD an hour
    repeated intermediate queue is 2000 rAD per run. average 15 min = roughly 8000 rAD an hour
    repeated advanced queue is 3000 rAD per run. (guess) average 25 min = 6000-9000 rAD per hour

    if you get the ring drops from throne and were fortunate to get it every RQ and they were on average blue, you get 5 rings x 2000 = 10k rAD

    first run rAD = 35k (3 RQ, no role bonus)
    so for two hours (not including first run ) 16k rAD
    rings salvage 10k

    35+16+10 = 61k rAD for same time of play

    Since i didn't need to convert my protector seals to salvage to make my 100k rAD currently, i'm not including that into this either. This is all rough estimates. Some days can be better some worse, but the value difference and gameplay difference is easily seen.

    however if the first time bonus was character bound not account bound then with my 5 toons, i'll just run leveling and intermediate RQ on all 5 and it will take 22x5 min to do = 1 hour 10 min average. Thats more time to build my characters up, more time to explore, work on my Guild, hunt monsters in chult and bolovia, helping other players out, run CN Demo and IG... etc.. Doing the same thing over and over is a good way to burn out. Doing if for much less than before is a great way to turn people off the game to go find something with bigger rewards for their time. If the goal is to balance Zen exchange, as i believe it is, the 100k cap is the correct way to do it, the account bound first time only runs are NOT.
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    lowjohn said:

    asterotg said:

    lowjohn said:

    r000kie said:


    asterdahl said:

    We also made a major change to leaver penalty with this update. Leaver penalty will now be account wide, and logging onto second character while the first is in a public queue with leaver penalty active will now boot the first character and inflict leaver penalty.

    While penalize the characters switching out of queue is to be commended, the account wide penalty is extreme. You mean of I get that dreadful, fix-timed, gold-bugged POM and leave the team, it will make all my avas penalized? NOT good, look into the most deserted queues and fix it (removing the timers would be a start).
    Yes, if you abandon your team and leave them to take longer to finish the easy queue that you just don't like, you can't do something else QUEUED for 30 minutes.

    Either suck it up and go run dailies/weeklies/stronghold stuff for 30 minutes, or stay and spend the 10 minutes it takes to lose at PoM because 3/5 of the players on your team decided not to help and make it take 6 minutes to win.
    There are a few logical faults in this argument. The first one is, that you think, that the leaver is abandoning his party. For once, why should he leave? He can just stick around and wait for a vote kick, wasting even more time. Furthermore, some ppl leave, bc they dont want to carry a bunch of AFK freeloaders, so you will now get an account wide penalty, if you dont want to waste your time for them. Last but not least, some ppl will stop using random que with this new rules. As it is, I do random ques maybe once or twice a week. If I get a bad group or AFK 'players' I leave the group and switch chars. With this new rules I will not do random ques, period. Why should I? for a few thousand AD with the risk, to be held hostage by a group of min IL players, who hope, that I can carry them? This makes random que even less attractive for geared players.
    #1: The leaver *is* abandoning his party, regardless of whether or not the party is worthy of abandonement. And sure, AFKers sitting doing nothing is a problem, but *right now* what they do is switch toons and requeue, then when they come back either they get the win without playing or the queue ended without a penalty for them so they requeue again. Forcing them to either play the queue *or* AFK, waiting, doing nothing, is an improvement on the current system. Because AFKing is boring and sucks, and will encourage them to contribute instead.

    #2: If you don't want to AFK for 10 minutes or fight for six minutes, you get a 30 minute penalty. Seems fair. Also, it would be better if you get a penalty for the 10 minute AFK, too, but baby steps. STO has something like that - if you don't do some minimum activity for a minimum percentage of the time a queue runs compared to your party, you get marked as having not contributed and get no rewards. There's ONE queue where if you queue up with the very best DPSers in the game and they work hard at DPSing and you aren't very good, you can get the AFK penalty while trying to contribute, but that's super-rare and basically requires you to carefully build a group around the idea of them doing it to you.

    #3: Some people will stop doing random queues because they can't abandon parties consequence-free? Good. That's *a good thing*. People who abandon parties that might be slow are bad, and if they stop doing that and their spaces are taken by harder-working and maybe-lower-geared people, that's a good change.

    Personally, I don't mind carrying a party. The occasional run where *nobody* is being carried is a mad bonus.
    Abandonment implies a duty to stay. There is no duty and I dont feel oblieged, to clear a dungeon for 4 ppl, who are AFK.

    6 minutes fight or 10 minutes AFK, sounds about right, if you are stuck in master of the hunt, but what about IG, MSP or FBI? You get a min IL group with bad gear and built. You can waste hours with them, even if you know, that they cant win it.

    Last, but not least, I think, that you dont really know, what I am talking about, regarding players incentive to run random ques. I play this game for 4 years and most of my friends, who did not stop playing it due to lack of interest or some of the changes, play for a similar time. We did earn ADs from leadership and farming CN. 10k AD is nice, but no incentive. You run random ques for the fun of it and maybe, to help out, not to waste your time. Our opinion might differ somehow, but you might be as hard working as you want and have a perfect build, but a 11k char cant contribute nearly as much as an 17k+ char with a similar experienced player. You might now some 11k tanks, who end as top DPS in a FBI run with 11-15k players and can solo Hati for 1/5th of the HP, I dont know them. The difference between 11 and 17k is huge, regardless of some useless boons and utility slots.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • therealprotextherealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 516 Arc User
    onodrain said:

    I have a couple issues with RQ's, mainly IG and Prophecy of Madness. IG has already been discussed.

    Prophecy of Madness

    At least 30% of the time my group has someone that does not want to run this. If they leave the group, not a huge deal. But If they change characters, we cannot kick them from the group. They show as disconnected. And we have to wait an extremely long time to kick them. How does the new system handle this?

    It would be great if something could be done about those players. I think they are MUCH worse than the actual leavers. Until Cryptic comes up with a solution, I will continue to report those players (character switchers) as I feel harrassed by their behaviour.
  • athena#9205 athena Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    The solution is simple, if the person is DCd more than 3 min, auto kick. It doens't take that long to restart the game, if that crashed.
    Another solution is, keep track of where the player is. If the player changes characters after accepting the map for the RQ then kick and penalty.
    For those players waiting for a DCd character, don't count that person towards the requirement to access the boss gate, since most skirmishes have boss gate at front this allows the players who want to play proceed.
    Give players a kick possible after 5 min if the target isn't moving for more than a min, or isn't actively using their keyboard properly (botters).
    In this method give players under 70 a leeway so they aren't kicked because the rushers are impatient.
  • utookmynickutookmynick Member Posts: 205 Arc User

    A good solution to this issue, imo, is to make that cutscene un-cancelable for the first time players for that version of throne.

    That would help, but I think there is an issue with bots. We assume they are non-english speakers when they don't reply or understand, but after observing some of them (well, I can only confirm 2 cases personally), they look scripted. SW was easy to identify. It would run right straight to anything that spawned, drop Pillar and just attack until dead. The movement, timing, positioning, would all look the same every single time. Other classes are harder to identify and I assume a better bot program would randomize a bit to better disguise itself.

  • utookmynickutookmynick Member Posts: 205 Arc User


    It would be great if something could be done about those players. I think they are MUCH worse than the actual leavers. Until Cryptic comes up with a solution, I will continue to report those players (character switchers) as I feel harrassed by their behaviour.

    Agreed. I report sometimes too, but I think someone needs to be reported by a lot of people before Cryptic will look into it. Cryptic needs to implement a better solution. Besides the dc'ers, the afkers are a problem as well. In short skirmishes, they know they can't be kicked in time. Even in random dungeons, you often get to the end before kick timer. It doesn't even say "player hasn't been in instance long enough." Simply nothing happens when you try to initiate a vote kick. Eventually you can kick, but people could think it is bugged and leave.

  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    So, someone lands in a random Dungeon or Skirmish and decides, "nope, not for me"
    Their current options include quitting and moving on to an alt, allowing the remaining players to call for reinforcements and carry on.
    The proposed change means that so doing, or D/Cing will result in an account wide half hour time out on the naughty step. Cos God forbid there's content you don't want to run.

    So, do they run the content? Do they take the hit on the naughty step? Or just amble about the campfire waiting for the boot trigger to pull?
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    I like this change, it is moving the RQ into the right direction. I think we all need to try out these changes and than come back and provide into after actually having to deal with them.

    The only thing I do agree on is IG. If you do leave IG in rotation, it should have better comp gear added. Such as 500IL comp gear. Also, add to the mix of comp item gear that has power & recovery, crit and recovery, recovery & arm pen. Adding these new gear with higher IL and stats to boot would make IG worthy of being in the rotation of RQ.
This discussion has been closed.