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OFFICIAL FEEDBACK THREAD: Changes to Random Queues

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  • muminekm#3459 muminekm Member Posts: 248 Arc User

    asterdahl said:


    • Random: Leveling Queue — All pre level 70 content as well as Illusionist's Gambit (Master) and Dread Legion.
    • Random: Intermediate Queue — All level 70 content up to item level 9000, including Merchant Prince's Folly (now item level 9000), but excluding Demogorgon (Master.)
    • Random: Advanced Queue — All level 70 content between item level 9000 and 13000, as well as Demogorgon (Master.)
    • Random: Expert Queue — All level 70 content item level 13000 and above, Castle Ravenloft only.
    Please Consider changing this a bit.

    The reality is that in the current system most groups skip FBI, and MSP when it pops in the random epic queue because a large subset of players still cannot manage to finish these dungeons in anything resembling a timely manner... I would suggest that you strongly consider having FBI, MSP, and Tong included in the Expert Queue, Etos through Demogorgon master in the advanced queue, etc. Most groups are not playing random queues to have fun with a surprise! dungeon, but rather to get in, make their AD, and then get out so they can do something they actually want to do. Also, lets be honest, there is a huge difficulty and experience difference between Master Demo and Fang Breaker Island; whereas there is a much shorter difficulty distance between FBI and Tomb of the Nine Gods... It's a more logical grouping, which also means that groups have a better expectation of what they need to bring for success.

    Also, I admit that I didn't like the AD changes and account based refinement changes (this does impact me directly), but after reflecting on this overnight, I do believe overall it is a step in the right direction to help fix the economy.



    With current changes you need 13k IL for Advanced queue. In my opinion - with newest weapon, armor (you will be able to buy Primal armor through leveling dungeons) - it's high enough so even unskilled/undergeared in other areas people will be able to finish FBI. I was opposing current brackets (where Malabog is together with Msp) but proposed changes are fine if we take current power creep into account. People leave random queue when fbi/msp pops but I've been trying to finish every one and beat times are only getting better (it would be even better if people stopped leaving at start). Actually some etos/CN runs from random queue take me longer than some random FBI runs.
  • utookmynickutookmynick Member Posts: 199 Arc User
    edited May 2018


    What makes it worse is, random Q is supposed to be a reasonable way for new/levelling players to make AD to get better items.

    Looks like it rewards Seal of the Brave now, so new/leveling players can get access to near end game gear and get caught up. This is how the random queues should be and NOT a vehicle for some people to abuse it in order to generate AD for themselves. If anything, it should reward more items, RP and bound enchanting stones, but less AD.

    Sure, I'm generating a nice amount of AD with the current system, but these are necessary changes and I'm not going to complain just for selfish reasons.

  • arwexx#1484 arwexx Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    My opinion on what would be great :

    Leveling donjon : all prelevel 70
    Normal Donjon : from epic malabog to CN, wolf, cragmire, all skirmish, Demo N/M, NSVA
    Hard Donjon : FBI, MSPC, T9G, CODG, MSVA
    New Donjon : Castle Ravenloft

    I agree that Illusionist's Gambit must not be in queue. Actually i'm doing it to loot the necklace for my pet and many of ramdomers are leaving at bronze.

    It's clearly not the same between normal and hard one, if i go with my main no pb on all, but with my others chars, not the same story and really depending on the group on hard donjon.

    for endgame player, doing leveling donjon must be interesting (nice AD reward, pet, wards ...).
    If not, no way for me to go there.

    Of course, with the nerf on AD limit for queue donjon (41k/day/account) and the limit of refinement (100K/day/account)
    doing only with my main is enought, so no really interest on changing all of that.

    Good idea to change random queues, but not like that and not with this "account" bonus.
  • martelis1981martelis1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Please remove the IG from the leveling RQ and leave it as before: a leveling IG and the Master in the intermediate RQ or better: a separated as before, levelling skirmish and Intermediate skirmish. As others have indicated, it will be a point of many discussions, fights, frustration and stress between those who want bronze for AD and those who seek gold. It's a really, really bad idea.
    Post edited by martelis1981 on
  • siggtomten29siggtomten29 Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    Greetings adventurers, this thread is for providing bug reports and feedback on the following topic:

    • Changes to Random Queues
    Random Queues were a feature added in the Swords of Chult module to increase the variety of queued content run by providing rewards for running various types of content. Based on feedback and the reception of the system, as well as observing how you all have engaged with it over the last few months, we will be making some adjustments to random queues for the upcoming module.

    Categories Reworked

    One of the largest changes will be in the categories themselves. Previously a random queue category existed for each type of content: skirmish, dungeon, epic dungeon, epic trial, and also for the current highest item level content (hero's accord.) Based on feedback we have reorganized the random queues by item level bands and reduced the number of queues from 5 to 4.
    • Random: Leveling Queue — All pre level 70 content as well as Illusionist's Gambit (Master) and Dread Legion.
    • Random: Intermediate Queue — All level 70 content up to item level 9000, including Merchant Prince's Folly (now item level 9000), but excluding Demogorgon (Master.)
    • Random: Advanced Queue — All level 70 content between item level 9000 and 13000, as well as Demogorgon (Master.)
    • Random: Expert Queue — All level 70 content item level 13000 and above, Castle Ravenloft only.
    Because we have reduced the number of random queues, we have also adjusted the payout for random queues, including role bonuses. (VIP AD bonuses not included. Leveling queue rewards indicated are for level 70 players, pre-level 70 players will receive seals of adventure and the same amount of AD.)
    • Random: Leveling Queue — 8,000 AD 60 Seals of the Brave (Repeat: 1,000 AD / 20 Seals)
    • Random: Intermediate Queue — 12,000 AD 100 Seals of the Brave (Repeat: 2,000 AD / 30 Seals | Role Bonus: 2,400 AD)
    • Random: Advanced Queue — 15,000 AD 120 Seals of the Brave (Repeat: 3,000 AD / 40 Seals | Role Bonus: 3,000 AD)
    • Random: Expert Queue — 2,500 RP 20 Seals of the Crown (Repeat: 1,000 RP / 10 Seals | Role Bonus: 5,000 AD)

    Daily Bonus is Now Per Account

    To coincide with adjustments to astral diamonds that will see the astral diamond refinement cap increased and made account wide, daily random queue bonuses will now also be account wide. For example, you will only be able to earn the daily bonus for completing the Advanced Queue on one character, per account, per day. Because these daily bonuses have been changed to account bonuses, as you may have noted above, the rewards have been significantly increased. Role bonuses; which also received a significant increase, along with repeat bonuses, will both continue to be available as many times as you run queues on any character.

    Adjustments to Stronghold Quests

    Because the random queue categories have been adjusted, the stronghold quests to earn Dungeoneer's Shards of Power have been adjusted to fit the new system. The quests have been simplified overall and there are now two quests (doen from three): Doing Your Part, and Doing Your Part Expertly. The first quest requires completing any random queue, while the second quest requires completing either the advanced or expert queue. To clarify, completing either the advanced or expert queue will earn you completion for both quests. In addition, as the number of quests has been reduced from three to two, the quests both now grant 15 shards (up from 10) which means 30 shards will continue to be available each day from random queues.

    Adjustments to Queue Requirements

    Starting in the upcoming module it will no longer be necessary to gain access to a queue by completing necessary prerequisite quests or campaign unlocks in order to queue for a random queue containing that individual queue. The one exception to this rule is the expert queue. The expert queue which features only the most recent content will still requires unlock the queues within it in order to access it.

    These changes do not affect requirements such as item level, and players must still meet the item level requirement for the highest item level queue in a random queue before they are able to join it. However, players may now queue for a random queue without unlocking the content. When in a random queue in this situation, you will still be placed into that content that you have not unlocked. However, you may not manually queue for that content, even if you have completed it in a random queue, without first completing whatever existing prerequisites are in place for that queue.

    Providing Feedback

    Random queues is a feature that we believe has had a significant positive impact on the game, but we know that the initial release was not perfect, and we appreciate all of your feedback over the last few months. As always, thank you all for playing and taking the time to provide feedback! Your feedback is invaluable. See you on the preview shard!

    ----

    Formatting Your Feedback and Bugs

    For posting feedback and bugs, please follow the following format to ensure your feedback and bugs are seen clearly and processed in a timely manner, thank you!

    Type: Bug/Feedback (Please only choose one)
    If you are listing a bug please have this text in RED, if you are posting an opinion or feedback please use CYAN. If you are replying to another user's post, or just engaging in general discussion, please do not color your posts, general discussion is welcome and we will read all of it, regardless of color! You can use BBCode to color your text:

    <font color=cyan>This text will display in cyan.</font> <font color=red>This text will display in red.</font>

    Examples:
    Bug: When I completed the advanced random queue for the first time today I only received 2,000 AD.

    Feedback: Please don't include Demogorgon in the intermediate queue!
    Tell me if im wrong, if i do the three first tiers, i get 35k ad accountwide, if im not strong enought for the last tier, i have 65k still to top off, that means if i do tier 3 dungeons that yield 3k repeat bonus, i need to do 21 of those to get to 100k, is that your intent? even worse for chars that only can do two of the tiers.
  • martelis1981martelis1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 120 Arc User
    And PLEASE don't implement the account bonus, I understand that is a bot countermeasure but you don't realize that the ones truly affected will be the new players who, seeing that it would take them centuries to make a decent amount of AD and be forced to buy Zen items with their ridiculously high and greedy prices, would end up leaving the game.
  • bluthbananabluthbanana Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited May 2018



    Tell me if im wrong, if i do the three first tiers, i get 35k ad accountwide, if im not strong enought for the last tier, i have 65k still to top off, that means if i do tier 3 dungeons that yield 3k repeat bonus, i need to do 21 of those to get to 100k, is that your intent? even worse for chars that only can do two of the tiers.

    You are wrong. You'll get additional AD from salvage from boss drops, Seals of the Brave and chests as long as you have keys. Also from weeklies and hunts.



    Make Illusionists Gambit in random queues pay the AD rewards on successful gold runs only.
  • wisper2048wisper2048 Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    I like generic direction. However, I have few notes.

    I would like if everfrost resistance is completly dropped, like black ice resistance was dropped before. This module is just too old. Gear that carry everfrost resistance - obsolete by 2 generations already, and it will be no more possible to buy it as protector seals are obsolete. And please do not not introduce everfire or something resistance in the future.

    I join oppinion that MSP, FBI, ToNG should be moved to expert queue or there should be a separate queue for dungeons up to Caslte Never. Considering that bonuses are now per account, it does not matter much anyway for farming AD. Alternative is to nerf these dungeon to CN level of difficulty. CN is hard for my chars, FBI is beyond what I'm capable now.

    Considering that leveling dungeons have higher difficulty, will their loot reward will be adjusted to more meainingful loot for lv 70 characters, for example to salvageable loot?
  • agilestoagilesto Member Posts: 516 Arc User
    asterdahl said:


    This is not a typo. In the same manner that seals of the elements were phased out when seals of the brave were added, this update will see the addition of seals of the crown, thus seals of the protector will be phased out and seals of the brave will become more widely available.

    Does this means we're going to see a Seals of the Brave vendor on PE, a replacement for the current Protector's one?

  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,521 Community Moderator
    asterdahl said:

    We also made a major change to leaver penalty with this update. Leaver penalty will now be account wide, and logging onto second character while the first is in a public queue with leaver penalty active will now boot the first character and inflict leaver penalty.

    This should dramatically diminish the frequency with which players simply log out of a queue. We had originally planned to implement this solution much earlier, but wanted to update the random queues to more accurately reflect the perceived difficulty of each individual queue within.

    This is so great! That's a very much needed change that everyone has been requesting. Thank you!
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  • utookmynickutookmynick Member Posts: 199 Arc User
    Should still scale AD rewards by level or give different rewards until character hits level 60. This will prevent people from just creating multiple accounts to get around these account limits
  • tomiotartomiotar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 227 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    asterdahl said:

    We also made a major change to leaver penalty with this update. Leaver penalty will now be account wide, and logging onto second character while the first is in a public queue with leaver penalty active will now boot the first character and inflict leaver penalty.

    This should dramatically diminish the frequency with which players simply log out of a queue. We had originally planned to implement this solution much earlier, but wanted to update the random queues to more accurately reflect the perceived difficulty of each individual queue within.

    This is so great! That's a very much needed change that everyone has been requesting. Thank you!
    This change will have one effect, people will use ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!! their main on the random advanced dungeon, removing the only chance to generate AD for new players, while at same time nerfing several times the amount of Dungeoneer Shards generation for the low levels guilds (if you play just one toon that can deal with FBI and MSP you will miss all the shards generated by your alts). That change is going to make that advanced random queue is going to be empty, because nobody is going to be willing to be left out to play any other content with their other toons, just because your random teamates dont know how to deal with that content.

    Currently, depending the hour of the day, you can see waiting times from 2 to 5 minutes for RED, after this mistake get implemented the queue times are going to be over 1 hour just to find the DC and is going to be a weak one, as pretty much every single DC that is strong and know what he is doing will never queue with random people considering the amount of PMs he will get to join them as soon as he/she log in.

    As usual, this change targets only legal players, because cheaters are going to keep using multiple accounts to bot and get the AD multiple times, while avoiding the Leaver Penalty.

  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,270 Arc User
    Only the advanced and expert queues will have wait times. The system will just throw all of the DPS players into PoM, Throne or Folly. DCs, OPs and GFs will mostly go to fill out instances for people manually queuing.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • omegarealities#7219 omegarealities Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited May 2018



    Tell me if im wrong, if i do the three first tiers, i get 35k ad accountwide, if im not strong enought for the last tier, i have 65k still to top off, that means if i do tier 3 dungeons that yield 3k repeat bonus, i need to do 21 of those to get to 100k, is that your intent? even worse for chars that only can do two of the tiers.

    You are wrong. You'll get additional AD from salvage from boss drops, Seals of the Brave and chests as long as you have keys. Also from weeklies and hunts.



    Make Illusionists Gambit in random queues pay the AD rewards on successful gold runs only.
    That's better than my idea.

    An idea I had was to split Illusionist Gambit into two separate.queues.

    1. The first would be in the random queues for the people who just want to run one level for AD.
    2. Illusionist Gambit Gold in the Public/Private area for the people who want the Companion Equipment.

    Keeping the queues separate from each other.
  • athena#9205 athena Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    asterdahl said:


    Daily Bonus is Now Per Account

    To coincide with adjustments to astral diamonds that will see the astral diamond refinement cap increased and made account wide, daily random queue bonuses will now also be account wide. For example, you will only be able to earn the daily bonus for completing the Advanced Queue on one character, per account, per day. Because these daily bonuses have been changed to account bonuses, as you may have noted above, the rewards have been significantly increased. Role bonuses; which also received a significant increase, along with repeat bonuses, will both continue to be available as many times as you run queues on any character.
    For clarification: i have 5 toons, if i run the first 3 randoms i get full AD on only one toon? if i change toons and run those three again i only get the limited value rAD ??? If this is correct how in the world are we supposed to reach the 100k cap in a reasonable manner?

    Better solution, keep the 100k cap, keep the seals bonus and second run rAD capped but don't make first run rAD account wide. with my 5 toons i can make just barely the 100k without doing epic RQ that is one superior mark value. if you do this change the time value to achieving 100k rAD will go from 2 hours now, to 8+ hours of non stop randoms. That is ridiculous.
  • utookmynickutookmynick Member Posts: 199 Arc User
    edited May 2018


    For clarification: i have 5 toons, if i run the first 3 randoms i get full AD on only one toon? if i change toons and run those three again i only get the limited value rAD ??? If this is correct how in the world are we supposed to reach the 100k cap in a reasonable manner?

    Better solution, keep the 100k cap, keep the seals bonus and second run rAD capped but don't make first run rAD account wide. with my 5 toons i can make just barely the 100k without doing epic RQ that is one superior mark value. if you do this change the time value to achieving 100k rAD will go from 2 hours now, to 8+ hours of non stop randoms. That is ridiculous.

    Why would a cap mean that it should be easily achievable through one source? Cap isn't equal to target. Going with your logic, the devs should lower it to 10k and then you could reach it with one random and everyone should be happy because it will only take 5-15 mins?
    Post edited by utookmynick on
  • siggtomten29siggtomten29 Member Posts: 47 Arc User



    Tell me if im wrong, if i do the three first tiers, i get 35k ad accountwide, if im not strong enought for the last tier, i have 65k still to top off, that means if i do tier 3 dungeons that yield 3k repeat bonus, i need to do 21 of those to get to 100k, is that your intent? even worse for chars that only can do two of the tiers.

    You are wrong. You'll get additional AD from salvage from boss drops, Seals of the Brave and chests as long as you have keys. Also from weeklies and hunts.


    I mean thats how much it takes by just doing the randoms.
  • luks707luks707 Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    I believe the proposed change to making the AD gained account wide is too extreme. While time-saving, it is simply too much of a reduction in available ad. My proposal would be that you can do every category twice, like in the old days of dungeon running.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,096 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    \Leaver penalty will now be account wide, and logging onto second character while the first is in a public queue with leaver penalty active will now boot the first character and inflict leaver penalty.

    This means leaver penalty is replenished (back to 30 minutes) when a second toon logs in? Ouch.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,270 Arc User

    asterdahl said:

    \Leaver penalty will now be account wide, and logging onto second character while the first is in a public queue with leaver penalty active will now boot the first character and inflict leaver penalty.

    This means leaver penalty is replenished (back to 30 minutes) when a second toon logs in? Ouch.
    It means that if you would get the leaver penalty for leaving (first out of the party, public queue) then you will get it for switching to another character. The character who you switched from will be removed from the instance and you will get the penalty. Switching to another character in a public queue, if the party is currently full, will treat it exactly as if you abandoned the queue.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,096 Arc User
    So mod 14 will pretty much kill the alts. Everyone will be earning RAD as if they had one toon. And everyone will take penalty as if they had one toon. The only benefit of having alts is a marginal role bonus. Heck of a way to level the playing field between the have-alts and the have nots.
  • szerevaxszerevax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 31 Arc User
    Can you add Gauntlgrym Battleground to all types of queues? It's only way to bring it to life.
  • utookmynickutookmynick Member Posts: 199 Arc User

    So mod 14 will pretty much kill the alts. Everyone will be earning RAD as if they had one toon. And everyone will take penalty as if they had one toon. The only benefit of having alts is a marginal role bonus. Heck of a way to level the playing field between the have-alts and the have nots.

    The benefit of having alts is variety of game play and being able to switch to a different char if the group needs it. It should never have become a vehicle for making more AD.
  • athena#9205 athena Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    the problem is the rAD limit and the value of the item you need to buy with AD. Superior marks for instance go for around 100k AD. Currently i can get that in one day of RQ. but the wep and armor enchants require immense amounts of these SM and GM. enough so that if i make 100k a day it will take 10 days to get the marks needed for perfect lvl upgrade and more for others. Now, in the same amount of time i can make 100k, i'll only be able to make 40k (maybe not even that) now it will take 25 days. The same value for 10 SM is currently equal to a chultan tiger thereabouts and so 25 days to raise 1 million AD is absolutely preposterous.
    This is all based on RQ rAD only, i know you can get weeklies and salvage, but even with those i'm tripling the amount of time i'm working on getting AD and less time working on the growth of my characters. So namelsshero was right, this will kill the alts. You'll get more people creating free accounts to gain AD and then use clever methods to transfer that AD to their playing main account. Can cryptic handle that much explosion of new accounts ? More people imo will see this as such a downward turn that they will leave NW altogether. Those that buy zen for making AD may get the advantage in the short term, and so will cryptic, but in the long term the wound will fester. IMO this is not the way to balance the ZAX.
  • pteriaspterias Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 661 Arc User
    I like many of the changes here, especially the new brackets. I'm not sure about jamming dungeons, trials, and skirmishes together, but we'll see. I was not a fan of the RQs when they started, largely because of FBI/mSP being in the wrong place, but also because it was designed (intentionally or unintentionally) to make players run lots of alts through leveling dungeons every day. I like the principle of changing the RQ rewards to account-based, but now it's the other extreme: there's little-to-no point in running more than one character through queues per day. It seems like there must be some sort of middle ground?

    How about a character AND account system where each character can only get the full benefit once per day, but up to 2-4 different characters on the same account can do that?

    Or, you could keep it entirely account based, but allow two "first runs" per account, or you could have a degrading bonus for the 2nd (and maybe 3rd) run of each tier, then go down to the residual levels after that? This would give people the option to run different characters through them in a day, or just bunch up on one character.

    Also, as I said in the AD cap thread, the 100k refining cap AND the 1/tier/account/day AD rewards seem redundant. This new RQ schedule makes it pretty hard to even get to the 100k. Being more generous with the RQ AD wouldn't break anything, it would just make it a little easier to hit the cap.

    Other feedback:
    - Illusionist's Gambit is a really annoying skirmish despite it being pretty fun. The problem is the Bronze/Silver/Gold thing and players having different goals. Personally, I'd like to get rid of the Bronze/Gold decision all together! IG is currently labeled "(Master)", I'd say create two skirmishes out of it: "Illusionist's Gambit" which is fixed as a Bronze run for the Leveling Queue, and "Illusionist's Gambit (Master)" which is fixed as a Gold run for Intermediate Queue. Either could be queued for normally as well. That would allow people to know what they're getting into without having to do a premade party. Also, no more trolling/counter-trolling.

    - Adding Seals of the Brave is a nice move, I wondered when they would be shifted out into lesser content. The 400 weekly cap on them should definitely be lifted though.

    - For TONG and CODG, I get the dilemma. I think most would prefer if they were moved up to the Expert Queue though. I certainly would. I know you'd like to keep the latest seals locked behind only the newest dungeon, but running TONG in particular with the required "roles" makes it even harder than running them outside of a queue. I think it's reasonable to get an extra bonus (new Seals) for running near latest content in a non-optimal way like that.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,096 Arc User


    The benefit of having alts is variety of game play and being able to switch to a different char if the group needs it. It should never have become a vehicle for making more AD.

    Well, you do need to develop the alts if you want them to be effective when your group needs them. I use four toons and they are all high 13K to low 14K. But I am probably an exception. There are way more people who send trashy alts into queues to get carried for RAD and funnel them to their main. So I have mixed feelings about the changes.
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