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Glass ceiling - everyday tank problems

Hi guys.

I found myself hitting the glass ceiling recently. I'm a 15.2k GF tactician and I'm following rjc's tact/conq build. Lately I noticed I'm sitting on 112% DR when my negation kicks in, I have 95% armpen and 17k recovery (of course when bonding kicks in).

I never intended to play dps GF, cause I really like tanking and being buff to my party.

So my question is what now? What can I do to be a better tank or support? I use supportive artifact, debuff companion, Valhalla set. But adding more item lvl gives me nothing. It's just a gear score number, nothing else.

I have a problem with new gear cause I can't see anything that's there to help my GF be better. Everything seems to be purely for dealing more damage.

I don't see any possibility to develop my GF to be a better character. I see difference in my HR, where new gear and better enchantments actually make me better in my main job. It's not the same with GF as I feel like there is not much space to improve since stacking DR ad infinitum seems to be pointless.

Maybe I'm wrong and you guys can share some advice. I'll be greatful if there are any words of wisdom.

Thanks!

Comments

  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    This is the reason, why many high IL players switch to Conqueror, bc you can contribute more with an higher IL. You could begin to stack defense or HP, but as it is, there is not much to be done otherwise.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • manipulosmanipulos Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    I was in the same place as you and ended up gearing for dps around mod12B I think. Once you get all set with gear, enchants, dps companions and get some practice you will be adding a LOT of damage in exchange for sacrificing a relatively small amount of buffs. Of course this all depends on who you normally run with. From what I understand there are still a lot of people that run as a "buff" GF alongside a Paladin tank.
  • wizardlvl80#5963 wizardlvl80 Member Posts: 519 Arc User
    @asterotg I'm already overstacked with defense and trying to reduce it.


    So you guys say there's basically just one possible way, to go full dps?

  • hasantareq88#2333 hasantareq88 Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited April 2018

    Hi guys.

    I found myself hitting the glass ceiling recently. I'm a 15.2k GF tactician and I'm following rjc's tact/conq build. Lately I noticed I'm sitting on 112% DR when my negation kicks in, I have 95% armpen and 17k recovery (of course when bonding kicks in).

    FYI, A full-Bis geared Tactician GF would buff same as a fresh lvl 70, Tactician GF. Because major buffs from tactician GF comes from feats -
    1. Crushing Pin
    2. Daunting Challenge
    3. United
    4. Inspiring Leader
    5. Rousing Speech
    6. Martial Mastery

    2 & 3 provides defensive buffs, 4 increases the damage boost from ITF, while 5 & 6 increase party ap gain.

    These feats combined with your class mechanics (Hard Marking with Tab), encounters & Class feats -
    1. ITF
    2. CS
    3. Hard Marking with Tab and ET
    4. KV
    5. Class feat. Guarded Assault with its off-hand bonus (to procc crushing pin on mass)

    1 & 2 for damage boost, 3 for threat/aggro and combat advantage, 4 for providing protection to the party and 5 for proccing crushing pin, all you have to do is to hold your shield up (shift) for that.

    And thats it! you are a successfull buffer! B)

    Gears and enchants on defense slots are somewhat needed for HP and defensive stat boost, but others really doesnt contribute thats much for buffing!

    Most of the companions you'll be using for either debuffing (dancing shield), buffing (Moonbow priestess) or for self-survival (Priestess of sune, rust monster, chicken, elemental air cultist, honey badger etc.) Companions that'll increase your DPS, will be
    of no use for you.

    On the other hand, as a tact GF your personal DPS will be pretty much non-existent. (try killing a soul in TONG! :D )

    BUT! as a Conq. GF you'll do much much more -

    1. You can still use the encounter powers that increases party dps, like CS (not mentioning ITF, cause its our food source ;) )
    2. you'll be helping your team a lot by being able to kill souls in tong.
    3. You'll be contributing to the party DPS almost by 50% to 60%, or sometimes as main DPS...that means a faster way to the finish line
    4. Its always fun to play as DPS if build right!
  • isaintify1isaintify1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 414 Arc User
    edited April 2018
    Its honestly worse for OP as GFs have a lot more use and different options to choose from and do. When a OP hits that ceiling we cannot really do anything else.. Devotion? lol. No one wants a Devo and if someone wants it is for "Bane" even though its a encounter and this whole "Baneadin" is not a real thing.
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User

    Its honestly worse for OP as GFs have a lot more use and different options to choose from and do. When a OP hits that ceiling we cannot really do anything else.. Devotion? lol. No one wants a Devo and if someone wants it is for "Bane" even though its a encounter and this whole "Baneadin" is not a real thing.

    The good thing is that pal+gf make a very good buff combination together :):) .
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    marnival said:

    Its honestly worse for OP as GFs have a lot more use and different options to choose from and do. When a OP hits that ceiling we cannot really do anything else.. Devotion? lol. No one wants a Devo and if someone wants it is for "Bane" even though its a encounter and this whole "Baneadin" is not a real thing.

    The good thing is that pal+gf make a very good buff combination together :):) .
    With 2 DCs it is a buff group. If the GF is a true full DPS build this group of 4 can beat T9 in reasonable time. The final spot can be any player, even a 11K DPS if you wanted. I know because when I do introduction T9 runs that is the group I run.

    OP Tank, GF DPS, and 2 DCs.
  • eion311eion311 Member Posts: 338 Arc User
    edited April 2018
    It's been a long time since tanks have gotten anything armor/item wise in this game that is truly useful when compared to dps classes. As you noted armor/items have become non stop +dmg, etc. I was a 17k+ Tact GF built to tank, I've spent the last few mods switching over everything to dps. In all honesty it's not that much harder to tank instances as a dps tank once you have the gear/enchants and skill from your years of tanking. Would I recommend a fresh GF try to dps tank ToNG/MSP/etc of course not, but for those of us who have been around for years and have the items, dps tanking is something to do now.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    eion311 said:

    It's been a long time since tanks have gotten anything armor/item wise in this game that is truly useful when compared to dps classes. As you noted armor/items have become non stop +dmg, etc. I was a 17k+ Tact GF built to tank, I've spent the last few mods switching over everything to dps. In all honesty it's not that much harder to tank instances as a dps tank once you have the gear/enchants and skill from your years of tanking. Would I recommend a fresh GF try to dps tank ToNG/MSP/etc of course not, but for those of us who have been around for years and have the items, dps tanking is something to do now.

    I know one GF that simply swaps to Tac build and summoned companion (same companion gear he has for his DPS - just the tank setup he has 3 defense instead of 3 offense from the bonding so more defense from companion gift).

    I play my DPS setup mostly and rarely go Tac anymore. The only time I use my tac build is in FBI when I get it as a ERQ. Otherwise I stay in my DPS build. I'm a bit over 14K and still have plenty of items to rank up, but I'm in now hurry.
  • wizardlvl80#5963 wizardlvl80 Member Posts: 519 Arc User
    So I guess it's either go Conqueror or die trying. Sigh...

    I think I'll stay with my tactician. I really don't like do deal damage with my GF - I have HR to do damage and I made GF to have a suppport character, cause I really like playing support/tank classes in games overall.

    I recently changed Azures r13 in my companions def slots to Black Ice r13. I bascially use now Con Artist with only Black Ice enchantments. That kind of toned my hyperoverstacked defense to just 95% DR with bondings. I'm still considering getting rid of Negation enchantment (using Perfect now) for something else. If you guys have any idea what could give me some more utility instead of Negation - please point it. Just not Barkshield - I hate it very very much.

    As for myself, I enjoy playing GF - don't get me wrong. I love tanking and buffing and stuff. I have a good opinion of solid guy who knows his class and "makes the job done" when fitting into a role.

    My main problem is that I can't get better at what I'm doing with item lvl progression. There's literally no point to gear up more. I have no new gear from Omu. The only thing I'm benefiting from with new gear is more HP, nothing else.

    But! If that's the way it goes, then OK. I can live with that. So I guess I'll stack recovery ad infinitum until I will able able to spam 2x ITF with one button press lol.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    So I guess it's either go Conqueror or die trying. Sigh...

    I think I'll stay with my tactician. I really don't like do deal damage with my GF - I have HR to do damage and I made GF to have a suppport character, cause I really like playing support/tank classes in games overall.

    I recently changed Azures r13 in my companions def slots to Black Ice r13. I bascially use now Con Artist with only Black Ice enchantments. That kind of toned my hyperoverstacked defense to just 95% DR with bondings. I'm still considering getting rid of Negation enchantment (using Perfect now) for something else. If you guys have any idea what could give me some more utility instead of Negation - please point it. Just not Barkshield - I hate it very very much.

    As for myself, I enjoy playing GF - don't get me wrong. I love tanking and buffing and stuff. I have a good opinion of solid guy who knows his class and "makes the job done" when fitting into a role.

    My main problem is that I can't get better at what I'm doing with item lvl progression. There's literally no point to gear up more. I have no new gear from Omu. The only thing I'm benefiting from with new gear is more HP, nothing else.

    But! If that's the way it goes, then OK. I can live with that. So I guess I'll stack recovery ad infinitum until I will able able to spam 2x ITF with one button press lol.

    I run a pure Shadow Clad Enchantment for the extra reflection, it also can add DR but I don't do it for that. You can only get Shadow Clad to pure as once it hits Neg or higher, you will go into Stealth and as tanks we don't want that.

  • wizardlvl80#5963 wizardlvl80 Member Posts: 519 Arc User
    Yeah, I heard about the Shadowclad and its anti-tank property.

    I recently swapped Waters of El'zhad for Charm of the Serpent and using it as an active artifact. It's really nice and cast time is short. I'm using this and Sigil of the Nine if the team I run with is overstacking debuffs since Sigil gives 3% damage boost.
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