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HB Templock?

vaisravana#6288 vaisravana Member Posts: 12 Arc User
edited May 2018 in The Nine Hells
Hey all! I got started on NW at the beginning of this year and I main a HB Fury whose loadouts I, sadly, messed up (replaced the 2nd loadout with my original rip, didn't know any better back then). Got to respec one and I'm all set for a dps, but I was thinking of going Templock for epic content. I'll probably get a retraining token and go for SB Temp in the near future, but I was wondering if a HB Temp build is any good? I've only seen mentions of SB Temps, so it picked my curiosity.
Post edited by vaisravana#6288 on

Comments

  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,398 Arc User

    My HB Fury alone can top or nearly top the most healed board along with DCs

    Take the Field Medic board with a mountain of salt.

    The Field Medic Board only measures healing done by the player, regardless of who the recipient of the heal is. Meaning that even Lifesteal or self heals will increase the chart. So you can get silly things like a CW or GF "outhealing" a DC because of Lifesteal and Fighter's Recovery spam.

    I've only seen mentions of SB Temps.

    I have never seen anyone mention doing Temptation as a Soulbinder. All the Templocks I have seen are all Hellbringer, since Pillar of Power's damage bonus can be shared to the party, and thus fits the support oriented Templock better.

    I'll probably get a retraining token and go for SB Temp in the near future, but I was wondering if a HB Temp build is any good?

    To answer your question, it's decent enough, assuming you roll HB Templock.

    It heals well enough that only oneshots or RNGezus Crits will be the only things killing your team.
    The buffs, while okay, won't eclipse that of a DC.
    You won't be dealing as much damage as Fury specs, but you add some chip damage here and there.

    Overall, Templock fills a support role well enough that you get people looking for Templocks, though that's only after they've found Paladins and/or Clerics. Or only if the Paladins/DCs are all taken and they need to make do with a substitute.

  • vaisravana#6288 vaisravana Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    My HB Fury alone can top or nearly top the most healed board along with DCs

    Take the Field Medic board with a mountain of salt.

    The Field Medic Board only measures healing done by the player, regardless of who the recipient of the heal is. Meaning that even Lifesteal or self heals will increase the chart. So you can get silly things like a CW or GF "outhealing" a DC because of Lifesteal and Fighter's Recovery spam.
    I'd thought so, but it's good to have a confirmation. I'm surprised you've only seen HB Temps, though - while searching around I could only find guides on HB Fury/SB Temp.

    No prob dealing less damage here, either; I just wanna help get some pressure off the healer from time to time, depending on the group setup. Thanks a lot for the input!

  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 332 Arc User



    I'd thought so, but it's good to have a confirmation. I'm surprised you've only seen HB Temps, though - while searching around I could only find guides on HB Fury/SB Temp.

    I am surprised you saw SB templock guides.
    Templocks must be HB. Period.

  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    HB Templock is definitely the way to go over SB Templock... At least as far as I know! lol Haven't really looked into the SB Templock, but I'm unsure what they could possible offer that would be better than Pillar of Power.


    va8Ru.gif
  • naoqueroforumnaoqueroforum Member Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Definitely don't go SB templock. I can't even imagine where you saw mentions of SB templocks. Maybe 5 mods ago?

    You can do a better support with GWF than with soulbinder. Templock is HB.
  • duckntrollduckntroll Member Posts: 95 Arc User
    About Templock survival for PlayerVersusEnvironment
    The [SoulBinder] path was the "way to survive" for very low level Templock (not enough LifeSteal and not enough HealthPoints). Thanks to "Dust To Dust" feat and the burst DPS of SoulScorch. (I personnally felt the HUGE difference back when ElementalEvil mod flattenned us all in the mud.)

    Now that the level grind 60->70 is no more, and with the rework of [HellBringer] PillarOfPower (good Debuff+Buff) this "niche" for [SoulBinder] path for Templock is not needed.

    Now if you want survival with low level Templock, just abuse ArmsOfHadar while on top of PillarOfPower then use ShadowWalk and PrinceOfHell feats. For the third encouter, it depend on how low you are :
    • < 70k HP and/or < 10%LS : VampriricEmbrace (don't forget to curse the foe to get the needed tempoary HealthPoints)
    • Higher you can go either
      • Debuff : BladesOfVanqusihedArmies or DreadTheft (or Wraith'sShadow but really poor damage and complex mechanic)
      • Mobility : FieryBolt
      • CrowdControl : Hadar'sGrasp
      • Suicid (Squad) : Warlock'sBargain
    Don't forget to can stack mounts insigna survival bonuses.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    I only met one SB fury during the last 3 to 4 month. Respectable dps, but honestly most run HB even as full DPS spec and do fine.
    SB looks like a somehow dead paragon to me atm, except some rare occasions for BIS player maybe running beside a HB templock in codg.
    HB templock is in a good spot, same as other buffer. Not the strongest buffer but you add some good heals plus LS buffs, pretty handy sometimes, same as dps-lock in it's broken setup is a strong dps on single targets.
    If fixed warlock will be a small sidenote again amongst other striker
  • manufracturemanufracture Member Posts: 92 Arc User

    Hey all! I got started on NW at the beginning of this year and I main a HB Fury whose loadouts I, sadly, messed up (replaced the 2nd loadout with my original rip, didn't know any better back then). Got to respec one and I'm all set for a dps, but I was thinking of going Templock for epic content. I'll probably get a retraining token and go for SB Temp in the near future, but I was wondering if a HB Temp build is any good? I've only seen mentions of SB Temps, so it picked my curiosity.

    So there is a really good HB Templock build made by Gaarlanx which I posted in my lament for the SW class which should help you. Just note that when you watch the video you too will want to start crying like I did. Good luck :)

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1239885/why-the-sw-makes-me-cry-in-sorrow

  • duckntrollduckntroll Member Posts: 95 Arc User

    So there is a really good HB Templock build made by Gaarlanx which I posted in my lament for the SW class which should help you. Just note that when you watch the video you too will want to start crying like I did. Good luck :)
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1239885/why-the-sw-makes-me-cry-in-sorrow

    Gaarlanx build contains a good number of mistakes making it far from a "good" build.
    • All his build/remarks concern high/BiS players
      • Those few players already know what they are doing (except maybe whales), so what's the use for his far from perfect build?
      • For all other players (vast majority), this build/remarks are quite misleading.
    • Templock doesn't provide any power sharing. So you can stack power stats but, what for? (Owlbear companion active power is nerfed, so lol?)
    • If I remember correctly Hadar'sGrasp debuff isn't shared (except with your puppet and maybe your companion), however it still multiproc your weapon enchant.
      • If your goal is multiproc, BladesOfVanquishedArmies has a better cool down (remark: multiprock on cursed targets only).
      • If your goal is CC, Arm'sOfHadar hit multiple targets and can be spammed :smile:
    • He choose to take the 3 feats in the fury tree (15points), for InfernalWrath 5% ArPen debuff on cursed targets
      • It can be a bit usefull for low/mid parties when your Templock DPS is meaningful (it happen but it's not that often).
      • But high/BiS party MUST have reached ArPen limit, no? So why go for a measly 5% ArPen over securing the 5sec duration of PoP buff? (Moreover with that you still have 5 feat's points that you can put on EldrichtMomentum to be sure to provide CA and improve the BiS party speed.)
    • ... (All that got me pissed and I stopped watching more. I guess I really have to create a comprehensive building guide for low/mid level Templock.)
  • moltanomoltano Member Posts: 5 Arc User


    Gaarlanx build contains a good number of mistakes making it far from a "good" build.



    Same thing goes for a few other "popular" builders, such as Dark's combat HR build. He leaves so much DPS on the table, it is quite ridiculous.

    ... (All that got me pissed and I stopped watching more. I guess I really have to create a comprehensive building guide for low/mid level Templock.)


    (Especially since I recently dusted off my never-finished SW and am having a lot of fun with it :) )
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    moltano said:


    Gaarlanx build contains a good number of mistakes making it far from a "good" build.



    Same thing goes for a few other "popular" builders, such as Dark's combat HR build. He leaves so much DPS on the table, it is quite ridiculous.

    ... (All that got me pissed and I stopped watching more. I guess I really have to create a comprehensive building guide for low/mid level Templock.)


    (Especially since I recently dusted off my never-finished SW and am having a lot of fun with it :) )
    Seconded

  • duckntrollduckntroll Member Posts: 95 Arc User


    moltano said:


    (I guess I really have to create a comprehensive building guide for low/mid level Templock.)

    (Especially since I recently dusted off my never-finished SW and am having a lot of fun with it :) )
    Seconded
    Okay!

    I'm on my testing way anyway as my warlock and some guildmates need it too.
  • samandrael#3354 samandrael Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    @duckntroll are you sure it's an ArPen debuff? I thought so originally too when I first read it based on the wording but according to https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N8Y_AmqnnhOdaCT2Sg9e-OcC0m6q5nUJLfujZVsI1Z0/edit#gid=0 it's a debuff toward the 200% cap like everything else.

    You're also not alone, almost every SW guide I read I take issues with a few things but I imagine it's that way for everyone.

    Edit: sorry don't normally post on the arc forums and can't quote properly, but in regards to your comment about Infernal Wrath lol.
  • duckntrollduckntroll Member Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited May 2018

    @duckntroll are you sure it's an ArPen debuff? I thought so originally too when I first read it based on the wording but according to https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N8Y_AmqnnhOdaCT2Sg9e-OcC0m6q5nUJLfujZVsI1Z0/edit#gid=0 it's a debuff toward the 200% cap like everything else.

    Interesting question!
    I may go test it, if I have time and motivation ^^ (next week)

    Let's say it's really a unmitigated capped buff
    • Loss of 5 points in Temptation tree (ok can do without it)
    • Loss of 18% (edit thanks @jaime4312, I didn't know how I put wrong number, too tired I guess...) of DPS buff when not on the PillarOfPower green area (bad!)
    • Gain 5% of DPS buff on lesser cursed targets (ok)
      • Mandatory use of AllConsumingCurse with high critical chance for generating those lesser curses
      • (high critical chance is inconsistent with the "all stats on power advice")
    I guess it's for skilled/disciplined BiS party able to DPS mainly on the green.

    Or for "DPS Templock" who don't want both of EldrichtMomentum & Darkness ( I know that "DPS Templock" has even less meaning than Templock: an evil pratictioner wanting to heal (lol) but whose goal is to main damage (the hell?) ).
    Post edited by duckntroll on
  • murphyvamurphyva Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    "Loss of 10% of DPS buff when not on the PillarOfPower green area (bad!)"
    where do we lose this buff? we're are not loosing any feats regarding pop or am i wrong ?
    Post edited by murphyva on
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
    @duckntroll

    PoP is a 18% buff for teammates.

    Infernal Wrath is a 5% damage resistance debuff for everyone, at least in the group.

    @murphyva

    If not having Power of the Nine Hells, when you (or group members) step you of PoP, you instantly lose its 24% buff and likewise with teammates although it's a 18% buff for them.

    Not having Po9H is okay if your team can melt bosses otherwise gg.
  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    I went straight temp, aura of despair, aura of cruelty, and darkness. havent had any problems in endgame yet, though my IL is kinda high...Im thinking of going back and put 10 into damnation for potnh, for team buffs.
  • duckntrollduckntroll Member Posts: 95 Arc User

    I went straight temp, aura of despair, aura of cruelty, and darkness. havent had any problems in endgame yet, though my IL is kinda high...Im thinking of going back and put 10 into damnation for potnh, for team buffs.

    Oh! Great a Darkness user! I've got some questions for you!
    • What is the "high IL" range you talk about? 14k/15k/16k/17k/18k?
    • About Darkness
      • What power did you use to trigger Darnkess: BladesOfVainquishedArmies or HarrowStorm or both?
      • Is the Darnkess 10% DPS buff meaningful for you?
      • Is the Darnkess 10% Defence meaningful for you?

    @jaime4312#3760
    Thanks for those precisions!
    (Did you test it personnally?)
  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    > @duckntroll said:
    > I went straight temp, aura of despair, aura of cruelty, and darkness. havent had any problems in endgame yet, though my IL is kinda high...Im thinking of going back and put 10 into damnation for potnh, for team buffs.
    >
    > Oh! Great a Darkness user! I've got some questions for you!
    > * What is the "high IL" range you talk about? 14k/15k/16k/17k/18k?
    >
    > * About Darkness
    > * What power did you use to trigger Darnkess: BladesOfVainquishedArmies or HarrowStorm or both?
    >
    > * Is the Darnkess 10% DPS buff meaningful for you?
    >
    > * Is the Darnkess 10% Defence meaningful for you?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > @jaime4312#3760
    > Thanks for those precisions!
    > (Did you test it personnally?)

    Hey @"jaime4312#3760" and @duckntroll I'll answer your questions, just plzdont laugh at my poor attempt at a templock build, as I feel its a setup thats comfortable for me :)

    I am currently 16.5k IL(not thathigh)
    I mostly use bova to trigger darkness but ive sen other suggestions like spending 10 into damnation and maybe 5 into fury (not to go full temp)
    IDK about the dps buff, the more u dps the more u heal, but im not running main dps so is it that important?
    the 10% defense i'd have to say yea, better to do it on a class as squishy as we are,at least thats what I think. Edit: some sw out there might not have that problem as im still ranking enchantments and stuff up. where i am now is not where i want to be forever.

    The runs Ive been in so far have been 20 min or a little more with a reasonable team. I can only improve from here on out though so im very open to suggestions :)
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
    @duckntroll

    PoP and Infernal Wrath were tested by @thefabricant and/or @michela123 so you can trust the informartion about those 2 things is correct.

    Also @merhunesdagon1 afaik Darkness is a 10% damage resistance debuff feat that forces you to use BoVA/Harrowstorm and that works only for the SW who procs it so I skipped it on my loadout.
  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    > @"jaime4312#3760" said:
    > @duckntroll
    >
    > PoP and Infernal Wrath were tested by @thefabricant and/or @michela123 so you can trust the informartion about those 2 things is correct.
    >
    > Also @merhunesdagon1 afaik Darkness is a 10% damage resistance debuff feat that forces you to use BoVA/Harrowstorm and that works only for the SW who procs it so I skipped it on my loadout.

    Very good info man, I always trust information from that egghead @thefabricant :)

    @duckntroll I probably will drop darkness for POTNH feat. maybe dabble into fury for a little extra dps.
  • nyarlathotep#5346 nyarlathotep Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    I have 2 templock loadouts, depending on whether party has CA or not . I splash 10 points into damnation on one build, 15 into fury on the other. The fury splash is for disciplined burn groups, it works great. The damnation splash for pugs and groups that need CA. I use bova for consistent heals and spreading lightning or plague fire procs, damage isn't great. Usually doesn't have to be if I'm templocking. I currently run darkness on 1 build, don't notice a huge difference.
  • duckntrollduckntroll Member Posts: 95 Arc User

    @duckntroll
    PoP and Infernal Wrath were tested by @thefabricant and/or @michela123 so you can trust the informartion about those 2 things is correct.

    Also @merhunesdagon1 afaik Darkness is a 10% damage resistance debuff feat that forces you to use BoVA/Harrowstorm and that works only for the SW who procs it so I skipped it on my loadout.

    I trust no one, especially on this game (No source code = No trust). Thinking otherwise is delusional.
    However I'm wayyy too lazy to go testing everything ^^ and I don't enjoy testing that much...
    (So I do take lot's of things for granted when I obviously should not.)


    Remark: I'm wondering why dev's give a SELFISH 10% DSP buff/debuff on Templock's only feat... Consistency guys...
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Entering codg (at least that´s what you do at higher IL most of the time, since it is the only rewearding dungeon), PotNH is your best friend.
    I won´t spends 15 point into fury to get a 5% DR-debuff (getting deminished in a group down to 2-3% +dps).
    Infernal Wrath is a 5% debuff, allways was I think, nothing else. You can check it with ACT easily.
    Stepping out of PoP for 2 out of 10 seconds is a 3-4% dps loss for your teammates and a 5% loss for you.
    In CoDG you will step out of PoP for >50% of the time since you have to move, except you want to die or punish your group with that annyoing debuff.
    You don´t want to kill that dps buff on your teammates (2xhdps+DO-DC+GF) and yourself most ot the time I am pretty sure.
    The only scenario where potnh might be from minor interest is the group wich burns a boss in 4-5 seconds or some bossencounter like turtle/orcus, agreed.
    A 5% debuff will not change a lot about the fact that your group kills that boss in 4-5 seconds, same as your dps is not that important and won´t get a significant boost from those 3 feats CP, GE and IF.
    Templock is a supporter, buffing/debuffing at first imo. I met templocks, skipping Dread Theft (your best debuff), same as PoP runnig with a hdps .... very bad choice imo.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • vaisravana#6288 vaisravana Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    Late response but I'm very thankful for all the responses! Built a temp loadout that isn't too far from my experience as dps just so I could get into it and I'm loving it so far. Funny thing is that I've actually been doing more damage now than as a pure fury, but I think that has much more to do with finally finding my playstyle. Still gotta see how it works in end-game content though.

    Again, thanks a bunch!
  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User

    @duckntroll
    PoP and Infernal Wrath were tested by @thefabricant and/or @michela123 so you can trust the informartion about those 2 things is correct.

    Also @merhunesdagon1 afaik Darkness is a 10% damage resistance debuff feat that forces you to use BoVA/Harrowstorm and that works only for the SW who procs it so I skipped it on my loadout.

    I trust no one, especially on this game (No source code = No trust). Thinking otherwise is delusional.
    However I'm wayyy too lazy to go testing everything ^^ and I don't enjoy testing that much...
    (So I do take lot's of things for granted when I obviously should not.)


    Remark: I'm wondering why dev's give a SELFISH 10% DSP buff/debuff on Templock's only feat... Consistency guys...
    Lol I trust @thefabricant information because I know he tests these things extensively. Now do I trust him as a person? I dont know him as a person but his info seems pretty legit vs. you who are too lazy to test anything.
  • duckntrollduckntroll Member Posts: 95 Arc User

    Lol I trust @thefabricant information because I know he tests these things extensively. Now do I trust him as a person? I dont know him as a person but his info seems pretty legit vs. you who are too lazy to test anything.

    Bad mental attitude.

    You take things you see and read for granted, and then became easily misled by shiny presentation/communication, syllogism, value judgment, ...
    That's the wrong path even if you got correct answers/results -> not because some famous theorycrafter isn't trustable, but cuz YOU will become a no-brainer instead of developping some real personnal skills.

    Examples
    • I said that I'm "lazy"
      • it's a word with heavy "value judgment" ( warning flag! )
      • then you take for granted my definition of lazy is the same as the common one --> which is not.
      • Worst! I only used this word to enhance communication: for the reader to identify with a friendly concept. ( It's a vicious trap/bait? LOL! What everyone subconsciously do every day is WAYYYYY more ugly. )
    • Moreover you create a syllogistic comparison of your (wrong) "judgment values"
      • it's syllogistic cuz there can be no comparison between
        • a reputation/impression of correct and synthetic results/knowledge VS a remark about mental attitude/disposition/methodology.
      • Is it a carelessness/misunderstanding or a lack of personnal skill developpement of your part? ( Does I am a HAMSTER to throw you a rhetorical question? LOL! You just publicly denigrated me, you can't expect that I can't do the same or worst :blush: )
  • mehrunesdagon#1073 mehrunesdagon Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited June 2018

    Lol I trust @thefabricant information because I know he tests these things extensively. Now do I trust him as a person? I dont know him as a person but his info seems pretty legit vs. you who are too lazy to test anything.

    Bad mental attitude.

    You take things you see and read for granted, and then became easily misled by shiny presentation/communication, syllogism, value judgment, ...
    That's the wrong path even if you got correct answers/results -> not because some famous theorycrafter isn't trustable, but cuz YOU will become a no-brainer instead of developping some real personnal skills.

    Examples
    • I said that I'm "lazy"
      • it's a word with heavy "value judgment" ( warning flag! )
      • then you take for granted my definition of lazy is the same as the common one --> which is not.
      • Worst! I only used this word to enhance communication: for the reader to identify with a friendly concept. ( It's a vicious trap/bait? LOL! What everyone subconsciously do every day is WAYYYYY more ugly. )
    • Moreover you create a syllogistic comparison of your (wrong) "judgment values"
      • it's syllogistic cuz there can be no comparison between
        • a reputation/impression of correct and synthetic results/knowledge VS a remark about mental attitude/disposition/methodology.
      • Is it a carelessness/misunderstanding or a lack of personnal skill developpement of your part? ( Does I am a HAMSTER to throw you a rhetorical question? LOL! You just publicly denigrated me, you can't expect that I can't do the same or worst :blush: )
    Comment editing is your friend :).

    Now if some theorycrafter presents information after extensively testing said information and giving it to the community as useful information, I take it as driving the horse to the well. Now will that horse drink from the well or will he choose not to? The horse has a choice, which is more important than if he had chosen a yes or no answer. Maybe the horses choice of not drinking from the well is better than if he had actually drank from the well, and vice a versa, but whats good for that horse may not be good for another horse.

    understanding that you could actually learn something or gain more knowledge from another player regarding your own class is pretty much a no brainer. some ppl choose to do things their way, others choose to follow someone else and you also have ppl out there that will tweak their builds around a popular build for their own personal play style. You were probably trying to prove a point as to why you have a problem following someone elses advice and emphasized on the importance of using your own logic at times. which is a good way of seeing things. At least thats what I got out of your ranting. Dont bust a blood vessel just because I called you out for not really contributing as much as a popular theorycrafter, then feeling some type of way because ppl would rather take said theorycrafters information over "im lazy". Its just a forum, I can imagine how your doing out there in the real world...

  • duckntrollduckntroll Member Posts: 95 Arc User

    Its just a forum, I can imagine how your doing out there in the real world...

    I'll do like "in the real worl" I'll put a :) and ignore dumb ones.
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