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A Short Guide for Support Archer

kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
edited December 2017 in The Wilds
Just wanna share something for archer out there that wanna play support. I know archer is not a popular class but there are die hard fan out there like me that wanna play a part in a party. Disclaimer tho, this build are meant to support the team only and not quite ideal for dps. If u are looking for personal glory in paingiver chart, u might wanna look somewhere else. Also about how effective this build is not proven either. Its just something that i wanna share and might be useful refference for anyone that wanna do further testing.

Paragon : Pathfinder

Stat

Power - extra damage to help the team is always welcome
Crit - same as above tho i m still using stillness of forest in this build so crit shouldnt be a problem.
Arp pen - around 6k is alright but try go for 85% RI
Recovery - Yup. Main stat in this build so stack up as much as possible.
Ap gain - important in this build too. try get it to 1k.

Feat

Predator action 5/5
Weapon mastery 3/3
Toughness 1/3
Agile combatant 3/3
Endless assault 3/3
Disciple of dexterity 3/3
Scoundrel training 2/3

Keen eye 5/5
Quarry 5/5 ( or broadhead arrow 5/5)
Hasty retreat 5/5
Longshot 5/5
Unflinching aim 5/5
Bottomless quiver 5/5
Rising focus 5/5
Stillness of forest 5/5
Predator 5/5

Boon : Main focus will be on AP gain and recovery. As for the rest, just pick any stat u fall short on. Pick regeneration too for pvp.
Companion : Hunting hawk, air archon, enriyes, earth archon, fire archon, dancing blade, seigemaster etc.
Mount equipt power : Quick action, using daily power grant 15% action point over 10 sec.
Offhand class feat: aspect of falcon
primary weapon power : aimed shot. Run speed for mobility.
Weapon enchant : Bronzewood
Armor enchant : Any. Barkshield is recomended tho. Staying alive is always important.
Equipment & enchant : Try getting 85% RI & 100% crit. The rest just balance out between power and recovery. My current stat is 32k power, 10k recovery. Tho i will be aiming for 16k recovery while mantaining my power. I use scintilant set for extra recovery and speed. For pvp try use equipment that suitable for pvp stat.
Weapon set : Fey weapon set from river district

Power

(PVE)
Atwill : Hunter teamwork & aimed shot
Encounter : Ambush, longstrider & hawkshot / Thorn ward, longstrider, commanding shot ( for boss fight )
Dailies : seisimic shot & disruptive shot
Class feat : aspect of falcon & seeker vengence

(PVP)
Atwill : Hunter teamwork & aim shot
Encounter : Ambush, longstrider, & commanding shot
Dailies : forest ghost & disruptive shot
Class feat : Aspect of falcon & pathfinder action

Gameplay

(PVE)
Objective here is to spam buff/debuff while spamming out seisemic shot for extra damage. So cooldown is essential here. That mean alot of aimshot spamming to further reduce our cooldown. My usual rotation during trash clearing is Hawkeye > longstrider > seisemic shot (if available) > hawkshot > aimshot. FYI, seisemic shot pull the mob into a straight line and makes it easier for hawkshot to land on all the target. But both hawkshot and seisemic shot can be wonky at time. I suspect they are affected by even terrain BUT dps is not the main thing here so hawkshot is still a must due to hawkeye. U can throw in hunter teamwork on dying mob for extra party heals and ap gain. Ur dps in this build rely on spamming seisemic shot so thats what stacking ap gain and recovery is for. Ambush is just my personal preference as it help me get away from mob aggro and not spending too much time on encounter cast time so i could get more aimshot to reduce longstrider cooldown. For boss fight, i usualy start with careful attack if i m at 30' or hunter if i m further for Quarry effect. Careful attack is ideal as it gives extra dps so try use it often when u have the chance. Next is thornward > longstrider > commanding shot > aimshot a few time > longstrider > comanding shot > hunter > aimshot till thornward is off cooldown and repeat. Rotation are situational due to red circle and boss mechanic. Survival always comes 1st. Oh btw u can use stag heart on anyone that need extra hp. Just stay close to ur target. Its not much but its still hp.

As for positioning, try stand not too close so u are able to activate longstrider buff yet not too far that u lose out too much on party buff. But due to boss mechanic & red circle, positioning is also situational. Try not to die because normaly people wont notice that u are dead. Even if they did, the distance of u from ur party makes ur party member travel extra mile just to get u and that reduce the efficiency.

(PVP)
Not a node holder but i usually snipe and distract/force people away from the node. Ambush and forest ghost for escape and positioning while waiting on cooldown. Longstride for extra damage boost. Commanding and aimshot for debuff and sniping. U can replace commanding for hawkshot if u wish but i find commanding more reliable. Toss bear trap just behind u when u are sniping for TR warning. Disruptive shot before u go stealth so u wont get interupted.


Afterword

I m not sure how effective this build performance will be compare to other classes so it still require some expert to test it out ( well if they are interested or feel helpful ). It just something i developed from my experience and i post it here for refference and sharing. Any helpful opinion or comment are welcome. Thanks.
Post edited by kangkeok on

Comments

  • wizardlvl80#5963 wizardlvl80 Member Posts: 519 Arc User
    Hi.

    Thanks for the insights, yet I would like to pin-point some thing I noticed and I can't quite agree with them.

    - Why do we need AP gain in support build? None of our dailies is meant to support and I don't see why we should get AP gain. Yes, there's Slasher's Mark but it's not that awesome with a minor buff for party (I'm asuming people know how to manage their stamina - especially tanks lol).
    - Why do we need DPS companions on support build? Isn't buffing/debuffing companion better?
    - Why Seekers Vengance on support build when it's purely dps-wise skill? Aren't there other ones like AotP giving us and party CA or other ones that give us more tankiness, mobility?
    - You should warn people that being too much in range will often result in being out of the buff range (like Into The Fray etc.).
    - Why Ambush for buff debuff? Aren't there better powers in our artilerry?
    - And last one, why archery path? It's clearly not working well as it is now. I think trapper would be better for reducing our cooldowns - for both melee and archer stances, so we can be a perma buffer (inifinite Hawkeye! yay!).

    Just a few things I noticed. Feel free to ignore them if you don't like them! :smile:
  • kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    edited December 2017

    Hi.

    Thanks for the insights, yet I would like to pin-point some thing I noticed and I can't quite agree with them.

    - Why do we need AP gain in support build? None of our dailies is meant to support and I don't see why we should get AP gain. Yes, there's Slasher's Mark but it's not that awesome with a minor buff for party (I'm asuming people know how to manage their stamina - especially tanks lol).
    - Why do we need DPS companions on support build? Isn't buffing/debuffing companion better?
    - Why Seekers Vengance on support build when it's purely dps-wise skill? Aren't there other ones like AotP giving us and party CA or other ones that give us more tankiness, mobility?
    - You should warn people that being too much in range will often result in being out of the buff range (like Into The Fray etc.).
    - Why Ambush for buff debuff? Aren't there better powers in our artilerry?
    - And last one, why archery path? It's clearly not working well as it is now. I think trapper would be better for reducing our cooldowns - for both melee and archer stances, so we can be a perma buffer (inifinite Hawkeye! yay!).

    Just a few things I noticed. Feel free to ignore them if you don't like them! :smile:

    HI, thanks for your comment. About ur question,

    1. Why do we need AP gain in support build? None of our dailies is meant to support and I don't see why we should get AP gain. Yes, there's Slasher's Mark but it's not that awesome with a minor buff for party (I'm asuming people know how to manage their stamina - especially tanks lol).

    You are right, most of HR dailies isnt meant for support but more of dps. Slasher mark indeed has some support element like u said but it does not fit in as an archer as we need to be constantly at distance. If we did slot slasher mark, we would need to spend time to gain our distance which mean lower longstrider rates. Even if u slot marauder escape u still waste a 1 aim shot worth of cooldown reduction. Best to slot a fire and forget power as our dailies. Also extra dps are always welcome in a party. Like Mof role is to provide debuff and a little dps, this build is to provide buff and dps.


    2. Why do we need DPS companions on support build? Isn't buffing/debuffing companion better?

    A good point. U could help by naming a few so i can edit them in the build. I currently have not tested which companion work well with an archer as i dont own them. Atm this build is kinda more like off-dps/buffer build.


    3. Why Seekers Vengance on support build when it's purely dps-wise skill? Aren't there other ones like AotP giving us and party CA or other ones that give us more tankiness, mobility?

    AotP is a nice buff for the party. Sadly its quite hard for archer to use it effectively due to the ally need to be within 25' of ur range. In this meta, most main dps are melee, and staying within 25' from them is going to give me a hard time to focus on spamming aimshot and pulling longstrider off ( require 30' to activate buff) without moving. But then u can target mob that are 30' away while keeping distance of 25' from ur main dps but that wont always occur and its very hard to keep track of distance if u are playing at ideal range. Since longstrider is the main buff here, i think its better to let the CW buff the party with CA. As for other one that give tankiness and mobility, since we spam aimshot alot, mobility isnt that useful in this build as we are usualy pin down by aimshot. Even we do need it, with mainhand weapon set to aimshot, hasty retreat & scintilant set bonus, we have more than enough to run away from red circle. Tankiness is not much needed as well as we archer usualy fight at range. But again its situational. I pick seeker vengence as its the only class feat that can be effective at range. U can slot serpent too but its matter of preference.


    4. You should warn people that being too much in range will often result in being out of the buff range (like Into The Fray etc.).

    I did when i m explaining about positioning in gameplay section.


    5. Why Ambush for buff debuff? Aren't there better powers in our artilerry?

    As i explain, in gameplay section, its just my preference for escape when something goes wrong. Ofcourse, depends on the gameplay u want, u can slot cordon of arrow and do rotation like, Hawkeye > longstrider > seisemic shot (if available) > cordon of arrow > aimshot. That works too as long as not too much time is spend on encounter cast time.


    6. And last one, why archery path? It's clearly not working well as it is now. I think trapper would be better for reducing our cooldowns - for both melee and archer stances, so we can be a perma buffer (inifinite Hawkeye! yay!).

    Yes u can play trapper as support but why build trapper as support when u have the capabilities to play as main dps in this "melee gets all buff" meta? Even when playing as a main dps, I doubt any trapper is gonna use hawkeye in their rotation. Anyway, the objective of this build is about making archer to be an effective buffer role in the party so archer could have an equal chance at endgame dungeon.


    I have yet officialy tested if this build could be as effective as trapper. If someone is kind enough to test it out or provide the time it takes between longstrider for one trapper rotation, i would helps. The more data from different player the better so i can average it out. Any chance if this build is able to produce similar or better result, i m content. Thanks.
  • teucer#3019 teucer Member Posts: 198 Arc User
    "I doubt any trapper is gonna use hawkeye in their rotation." - Wow!

    I have used Hawkeye in PvP as a Trapper and Combat build too.

    In PvE, I have not seen an Archer be a viable toon. The tree is what I started out with, its lacking a lot.

    Keep it up though, it does need supporters...
    The Legendary Outlaws
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    Lol, while archer is certainly the worst choice for pve, after just trying an archer in PvP, it's fun. Serious glass cannon, but quite a lot of boom boom.

    Tbh, we are utterly boned this mod in PvP, so we might as well play for laughs.

    Pillar-sitting sniper. Yup. Unashamedly run away from everyone. Yup. However, if there is another toon on node to distract your target... You can really put a dent in them, if not one or two shot them.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    jonkoca said:

    Lol, while archer is certainly the worst choice for pve, after just trying an archer in PvP, it's fun. Serious glass cannon, but quite a lot of boom boom.

    Tbh, we are utterly boned this mod in PvP, so we might as well play for laughs.

    Pillar-sitting sniper. Yup. Unashamedly run away from everyone. Yup. However, if there is another toon on node to distract your target... You can really put a dent in them, if not one or two shot them.

    Yup. Love archer in pvp. In my opinion, archer spec current situation is like combat spec back in mod 4 where the only viable path is pvp. In pve tho, i m trying to make a build that could at least fill a role in endgame content. Since archer is lacking alot dps wise due to many reason, i m hoping this build could at least land archer in buffing role like mof/gf.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    Now that i come to think of it, IF the developer has any plan to make archery viable as a suppot class in PVE, they could add an extra feature to longstrider encounter. In addition to able to buff when the shot is made 30' off the target, they could add that the damage buff is increase by x% for every y feet away from the 30' point off the target. For exmaple, x =1 and y =2, if a longstrider is shot at 70' and that is 40' more from the initial 30', and every 2ft extra feet increase the buff by 1%. At 40ft, u get 20% increase So in addition to the 40% initial buff, the total buff u get from longstrider when it is release at 70ft is 40 + 20 = 60%. Ofcourse x & y are subjected to the developer decision. Above are just an example.
  • wdj40wdj40 Member Posts: 1,958 Arc User
    I have a few clips on my XBOX DVR page if you want to have a look, I can answer any questions you may have. All my latest clips are of my Archer in PvP. I cannot post links from my X1 but you can find me and my DVR page easy on Google... I am wdj40 on most forums etc :)

    I dont run an Archer in PvE though and never tried to.

    I wont pick apart the original post but the only thing I will say is take 3 points in Toughness, it should be mandatory. That extra HP boost is applied to EVERYTHING, so every piece of equipment, enchant, boon, buff, boost... whatever, HP is pretty much the best form of Defence in this game.
    Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only
    Alts :
    Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)

    Member of Q-Snipe
  • kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    ..
    wdj40 said:

    I have a few clips on my XBOX DVR page if you want to have a look, I can answer any questions you may have. All my latest clips are of my Archer in PvP. I cannot post links from my X1 but you can find me and my DVR page easy on Google... I am wdj40 on most forums etc :)

    I dont run an Archer in PvE though and never tried to.

    I wont pick apart the original post but the only thing I will say is take 3 points in Toughness, it should be mandatory. That extra HP boost is applied to EVERYTHING, so every piece of equipment, enchant, boon, buff, boost... whatever, HP is pretty much the best form of Defence in this game.

    Yup. Agreed. Thanks for your feedback. i guess we could move 2 point from predatory action to toughness for pvp since our main damage is not from action point power.
  • teucer#3019 teucer Member Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    Archer in PvE is fine. I ran it a few times and the results were good. Did a couple eToS with a decent group finishing with 140+ mill on the leader board. For the boss, I either stood under a spider or on the chest.
    The Legendary Outlaws
  • kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    edited March 2018

    Archer in PvE is fine. I ran it a few times and the results were good. Did a couple eToS with a decent group finishing with 140+ mill on the leader board. For the boss, I either stood under a spider or on the chest.

    Hmm does that mean archer has been accepted for end game party like Tong? havent been playing this game for few months, did they change something? If for eTos only, i think its dependable of who is in the party. If u are in a low dps group which the mob die pretty slowly, they archer dps will be top. But if u doing it with a group where mob dies in a blink, archer dps is gonna fall off due to the slow animation cast time of a few heavy damage encounter like RoA, cordon and Sts. Excpet if the developer change that but anyway archer performance is realy dependable to party on low level dungeons. Dungeons like FBI, Msp & Tong is realy where archer falls off at dps due to the class problem with buff range. Well u can play as a point blank archer but that, u might as well play as combat or trapper as its more effective that way.

    I did fbi with my archer few time and i feel its more effective that i play as a support/off dps that spamming aimshot and longstrider than a full out dps spaming roa sts and electric shot. Msp is same as fbi till u reach the platform boss where u are forced to go melee. For Tong, i only did once when i get lucky and public que pop but it does not last long when people start leaving when we reach orcus. But anyway, archer need alot of work to be done if to make it into a dps class. They have to fix buff range problem, cast time animation problem, and etc. Also because of buff range problem, I hate how this game is forcing archer away from its rightfull game play. I mean combat has its own playstyle which is staying close range all the time doing their flurry stuff. Trapper weave in and out spamming their encounter. Archer is mean to stay at range sniping away mob but now archer is forced to go point blank rendering few of our feat useless just because alot of buff could not reach us. Its just a poor design made by the developer and its the main issue archery is facing now but enough of my rant.
  • teucer#3019 teucer Member Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    More like TC, switch, Arti, LSS, TW, STS, spam AS is what I focus on for the boss. The mobs in between bosses, you know what to do.

    I had put five in StormCallers but it is not necessary so I have moved from it. Running a hybrid at the moment and it works great in PvP too but pure Arch is awesome.
    The Legendary Outlaws
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