seriously they need a new q for the high level stuff. fbi is not finishable with the average group of randoms in RED. it just isn't. let alone msp but TONG?!?! that's just funny.
With enough time, say two or three hours, FBI and mSP are a bit more PUG-able then most people think. But don't worry. Feel free to leave without even trying. You are not forced to run anything that pops in random queue if you don't think it will work, or even if you don't feel like running it at all. The random queue should not be a mechanism to manipulate others into doing something you want.
why on god's green earth would I ever choose to stay 2 or three hours in either of those dungeons? a non bis or near bis group should still be able to knock that out in about half an hour a run if they have even a quarter of a clue as to what they're doing and geared properly if not the best in slot. why would I choose to go red and do that instead of just forming a group. 6k ad is NOT worth it. I can get a lot more running tuern a few times. it's a three min run guaranteed and will at least get a few good salvage pieces a run if not something that can be sold for a lot more.
FBI for a BIS group should be no more than 20 minutes and MPSC should be no more than 25 minutes and T9 should be under 20 minutes. Out of those dungeons MSPC is the hardest due to the most mechanics than FBI and finally T9 as many of the mechanics other than the balls on Orcus can be ignored and the content can beaten fairly easily for a BiS group.
I have ran FBI as a REQ many times now and the average time to beat is around 45 minutes with a 13K average IL for the group. Getting 1 strong DPS or a strong tank that can also do DPS makes all the difference in content. I ran FBI as a 3 man group 1 - tank, 1 DC and 1 DPS an we beat it a bit over 30 minutes.
Knowledge of the content mechanics and your class plays way more of a role in completing content than IL. I have seen a 18K GWF get beat in T9 by a 15K SW, the GWF was BiS and the SW was working on building up their character and the GWF got the damage buff on Orcus, so there. Again, IL means HAMSTER if you have no idea how to play your class effectively.
Just like other MMOs the IL is a determining factor of what content you can access and the RQ system should be a one stop to run 2 or 3 random content that awards bonus AD daily. All content that you have opened up based on your IL should be in the RQ system. This method would benefit DPS as of right now many wait hours on end to get into a ERQ dungeon and so never get in and lose out on AD. By combing the Standard, Epic, Trial and Skirmish into one q system, all players will have an easier time being awarded bonus AD. The only content not include in the RQ would be the current Skirmish, Epic Dungeon and Trial.
Call me mad but this system would be better and 2 runs to get maximum daily bonus AD is much better than what is currently in place.
why on god's green earth would I ever choose to stay 2 or three hours in either of those dungeons? a non bis or near bis group should still be able to knock that out in about half an hour a run if they have even a quarter of a clue as to what they're doing and geared properly if not the best in slot. why would I choose to go red and do that instead of just forming a group. 6k ad is NOT worth it. I can get a lot more running tuern a few times. it's a three min run guaranteed and will at least get a few good salvage pieces a run if not something that can be sold for a lot more.
I think you missed the point. Even though FBI and mSP are puggable, most people choose to leave for whatever reason (not worth their time, don't want to do it, etc). According to your view on random skirmish and IG gold (if someone gets it, they should stay and complete it), by extension if someone gets FBI/mSP from RED, they should stay and complete it.
I choose not to run RED. it's a waste of time. it's not worth the piddly amount of AD it gives you.
Funny that a lots RQ players feel this way about IG gold, not worth the time for the marginal improvement in reward. So they choose to stop after bronze and patiently wait for their AD while the gold runners have at it.
But quitting out is not the same thing as leeching. if you want to quit out of a dungeon go for it. it's far better than leeching. leechers are not ok. that's all you do with ig if you stand by the fire and do nothing.
A leecher would just stand there. People who go through the trouble to strip gear and unsummon pet to die faster and switch to non-buffing build want a wipe. There is nothing to leech on a wipe.
they get a party of three so they will get gold and then wait for the que to fill in. they aren't trying for Random skirmish q people they're trying for IG.
Vote riggers are worst than the opportunist solo players fishing for a gold run. Essentially, they are conspiring to kidnap two other RQ players for their gold runs. They should not be surprised when some victims resist.
point 2. why don't they man up and just quit instead of dragging the rest of the party down with them. and the times I've experienced it they are leeching because I get gold when I go for it.
There is no replacement so whether I leave or afk and wait for my AD, the impact to the gold runners is the same. Except maybe a psychological one as some people hate the possibility of the afker getting better loot then them. I call it my reward for being forced to wait. It's worth only a salvage to me.
Three pages and no one seems to be championing the OP's original proposal of opening FBI and mSPC to all Lvl 70 players (geared properly or not, campaign completion or not) and we're going back and forth on positions ranging from moving them out of the ERQ, to leaving them as is, to not giving two HAMSTER farts, to creating a seperate catergory for them and bantering back and forth on the goods, bads and uglies of those ideas. Ideas and suggestions that appear in other discussions on the Random Queues within the forums. Is it a safe bet to say that everyone disagrees with the op's idea and we can just let this discussion fade into obscurity? Found two more coppers while cleaning the sofa, so there you go.
it IS common to see people drag the whole run down if they don't get what they want. this is fostering some very bad playstyles in game.
I call this a lesson in risk assessment. Players need to learn that just because the bronze wave went fast, they shouldn't rush to vote stay. They should look at the charts, see how others vote, and consider what happens if that one guy who did 90% of the DPS decides to leave.
It doesn't make sense that you will find three people to rig the vote, but can't be bothered to find two more for a proper gold run. Perhaps gold run isn't as popular as you think it is. Or maybe you just like HAMSTER blocking RQ players.
and no. manipulating people to do what you want that way is not ok. people vote gold because they want gold. they don't need to wait to see what YOU want to do. you need to do what the majority want to do if you've qued to be there. that's the implicit contract in running the random que.
I don't manipulate people. I normally don't say anything because I don't like telling people what to do. But I will go afk after the first round. I call that discouraging future forced gold runs.
If someone asks for bronze, I tell them I intend to afk after the first round. This is in support of the RQ player who really doesn't want gold. But you'd be surprised how many times the other three go gold (vote riggers).
If someone ask for gold, I tell them I will afk, but feel free to go gold. I will wait for my AD.
Most runs where I afk actually end civilized now. There may be some light jokes. But otherwise, the rest of the group does gold, or wipes, and leaves quietly.
To the special jerks who yell at me and tries to bully me into participating, I have a +4 gear ready to post in chat at the end of the run to rub it in their face. I call this discouraging gold runs that can benefit "leechers".
I don't consider it bad in either direction - some want gold and some want bronze, I always vote no but if the majority want to stay then I'll play it. People wanting one or the other is not abuse, it's just how it's been set up.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
it's called calling for random skirmish groups to do it with a group of people who have the same goal as you. not grinding for riverdist items
and no. manipulating people to do what you want that way is not ok. people vote gold because they want gold. they don't need to wait to see what YOU want to do. you need to do what the majority want to do if you've qued to be there. that's the implicit contract in running the random que.
"Abandon Instance" is an option if you don't want to be stuck for the last 2 phases.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Three pages and no one seems to be championing the OP's original proposal of opening FBI and mSPC to all Lvl 70 players (geared properly or not, campaign completion or not) and we're going back and forth on positions ranging from moving them out of the ERQ, to leaving them as is, to not giving two HAMSTER farts, to creating a seperate catergory for them and bantering back and forth on the goods, bads and uglies of those ideas. Ideas and suggestions that appear in other discussions on the Random Queues within the forums. Is it a safe bet to say that everyone disagrees with the op's idea and we can just let this discussion fade into obscurity? Found two more coppers while cleaning the sofa, so there you go.
ERQ should stay and both FBI and MSPC should also stay. The requirements should stay. What should happen is changes to what is required to run ERQ to allow more player acces to ERQ.
You do know you can queue up for mSP if you want, you are not locked out of it. You just don't have the privilege to do mSP as RED to earn daily RAD because you haven't earned it. In fact, feel free to queue up for any T1 to T2.5 where lots of well-geared players in RED are ready and waiting to make your run a breeze.
But wait, there's more. If you happen to get unlucky and end up in a run with a bunch of other scrubs who also queued for that dungeon, you can leave with no penalty and immediately queue again till you get your dream carry team!
You do know you can queue up for mSP if you want, you are not locked out of it. You just don't have the privilege to do mSP as RED to earn daily RAD because you haven't earned it. In fact, feel free to queue up for any T1 to T2.5 where lots of well-geared players in RED are ready and waiting to make your run a breeze.
But wait, there's more. If you happen to get unlucky and end up in a run with a bunch of other scrubs who also queued for that dungeon, you can leave with no penalty and immediately queue again till you get your dream carry team!
I get the penalty if I do the normal Q if I am the first person to leave. If you leave after someone exist there is no penalty.
I did a FBI q and I left first and got the 30 minute penalty.
On my GF I did the same thing but I left after the DC and go no penalty.
You do know you can queue up for mSP if you want, you are not locked out of it. You just don't have the privilege to do mSP as RED to earn daily RAD because you haven't earned it. In fact, feel free to queue up for any T1 to T2.5 where lots of well-geared players in RED are ready and waiting to make your run a breeze.
But wait, there's more. If you happen to get unlucky and end up in a run with a bunch of other scrubs who also queued for that dungeon, you can leave with no penalty and immediately queue again till you get your dream carry team!
I get the penalty if I do the normal Q if I am the first person to leave. If you leave after someone exist there is no penalty.
I did a FBI q and I left first and got the 30 minute penalty.
On my GF I did the same thing but I left after the DC and go no penalty.
First one out gets a penalty, except in private que groups. To be precise, first one out in a full group, as he said. Be aware, that even if someone left, you will get the penalty, too, if the group was filled up to full force before you leave, so you should hit the leave instance button before someone else asked for and got reinforcement.
Oh, I thought the penalty was only for RQ players. Guess it kind of makes sense not to make it too easy for non-RQ player to fish for a good group. And it's easier to trigger the penalty just by seeing if there is an empty player slot than to track who left first.
Three pages and no one seems to be championing the OP's original proposal of opening FBI and mSPC to all Lvl 70 players (geared properly or not, campaign completion or not) and we're going back and forth on positions ranging from moving them out of the ERQ, to leaving them as is, to not giving two HAMSTER farts, to creating a seperate catergory for them and bantering back and forth on the goods, bads and uglies of those ideas. Ideas and suggestions that appear in other discussions on the Random Queues within the forums. Is it a safe bet to say that everyone disagrees with the op's idea and we can just let this discussion fade into obscurity? Found two more coppers while cleaning the sofa, so there you go.
ERQ should stay and both FBI and MSPC should also stay. The requirements should stay. What should happen is changes to what is required to run ERQ to allow more player acces to ERQ.
the only way all the things you have said could be true is if they made a nerfbat and hit msp and fbi with it. it's too hard for your average group of randoms.
the only other way is if a nerf bat is applied and there are two versions of each fbi and msp an easy version and hard version.
as it is though they'd be making a much bigger problem to do as you suggest. you'd get more quitters. more ragers. less people in the q who are capable of completing content. (those who can just won't)
FBI is super easy. Ran it last night with a group all 13K and we beat it no problem. FBI is fine as is.
MSPC is the hardest of the last 3 dungeons. We did MSPC with 2 DC and still had issues. Took the same group into T9 and beat it in 36 minutes. MSPC has more mechanics than the other two T3 dungeons. FBI the hardest part is getting up the hill; if you can do that you already beat it. MSPC the hardest part, the whole dungeon due to it having adds everywhere, mechanics on bosses and well, you need good burn but not 17K DPS burn to beat it. T9, you need just two good 13K DPS to beat it that know how to play their character and for those who think that is fallacy, well took a 12.8 and a 14.1 DPS through t9 and beat it at 41 minutes.
What is needed most in content is the proper buffing and debuffing groups.
I did a FBI run without a tank before. Templock, MoF Buffer, 1 DO and 2 DPS.
I like have stated in more than one post now, knowing how to get the most out of your character is more important than IL.
I have beaten a 16K near BiS on my lowly 13K HR that only uses R8 bondings and they were using R13 in almost all of their sockets. Again, knowing how to squeeze out all the damage you can out of your character matters more than IL.
I have beaten a 16K near BiS on my lowly 13K HR that only uses R8 bondings and they were using R13 in almost all of their sockets. Again, knowing how to squeeze out all the damage you can out of your character matters more than IL.
Which class did you beat? Where? In which dungeon?
I have beaten a 16K near BiS on my lowly 13K HR that only uses R8 bondings and they were using R13 in almost all of their sockets. Again, knowing how to squeeze out all the damage you can out of your character matters more than IL.
Which class did you beat? Where? In which dungeon?
I beat a GWF in CN. I'm using all R8 enchantments including my weapon. He did state he kept missing IBS but that is on him and not me. If he landed those hits he would have easily beaten me. The thing is though, that is knowing how to play our class and if he is missing IBS hits on target that is his inability to get the most out of his class.
I have seen 17K GWF get beat by TR regularly in T9 and quite a few raged quit after Orcus because the TR did not have the buff and they still got beat in damage. Some players worry to much about what is on the paingiver chart instead of just playing to have fun.
If I stop having fun with NW, I will switch games. Right now I am enjoying NW quite a bit as I'm helping others get through T3 content for the first time. It a blast listening to their input on the content. And all of them have performed well enough to join us if we are missing a DPS for any of our runs we do.
I have beaten a 16K near BiS on my lowly 13K HR that only uses R8 bondings and they were using R13 in almost all of their sockets. Again, knowing how to squeeze out all the damage you can out of your character matters more than IL.
Which class did you beat? Where? In which dungeon?
I beat a GWF in CN. I'm using all R8 enchantments including my weapon. He did state he kept missing IBS but that is on him and not me. If he landed those hits he would have easily beaten me. The thing is though, that is knowing how to play our class and if he is missing IBS hits on target that is his inability to get the most out of his class.
I have seen 17K GWF get beat by TR regularly in T9 and quite a few raged quit after Orcus because the TR did not have the buff and they still got beat in damage. Some players worry to much about what is on the paingiver chart instead of just playing to have fun.
If I stop having fun with NW, I will switch games. Right now I am enjoying NW quite a bit as I'm helping others get through T3 content for the first time. It a blast listening to their input on the content. And all of them have performed well enough to join us if we are missing a DPS for any of our runs we do.
I keep missing IBSs because I'm a moron, but that's not a reason why he's behind you in DPS - it's because he's HAMSTER or lagging very badly. IBS isn't that much of our damage in CN (mostly SS and WMS).
Three pages and no one seems to be championing the OP's original proposal of opening FBI and mSPC to all Lvl 70 players (geared properly or not, campaign completion or not) and we're going back and forth on positions ranging from moving them out of the ERQ, to leaving them as is, to not giving two HAMSTER farts, to creating a seperate catergory for them and bantering back and forth on the goods, bads and uglies of those ideas. Ideas and suggestions that appear in other discussions on the Random Queues within the forums. Is it a safe bet to say that everyone disagrees with the op's idea and we can just let this discussion fade into obscurity? Found two more coppers while cleaning the sofa, so there you go.
Three pages and no one seems to be championing the OP's original proposal of opening FBI and mSPC to all Lvl 70 players (geared properly or not, campaign completion or not) and we're going back and forth on positions ranging from moving them out of the ERQ, to leaving them as is, to not giving two HAMSTER farts, to creating a seperate catergory for them and bantering back and forth on the goods, bads and uglies of those ideas. Ideas and suggestions that appear in other discussions on the Random Queues within the forums. Is it a safe bet to say that everyone disagrees with the op's idea and we can just let this discussion fade into obscurity? Found two more coppers while cleaning the sofa, so there you go.
ERQ should stay and both FBI and MSPC should also stay. The requirements should stay. What should happen is changes to what is required to run ERQ to allow more player acces to ERQ.
the only way all the things you have said could be true is if they made a nerfbat and hit msp and fbi with it. it's too hard for your average group of randoms.
the only other way is if a nerf bat is applied and there are two versions of each fbi and msp an easy version and hard version.
as it is though they'd be making a much bigger problem to do as you suggest. you'd get more quitters. more ragers. less people in the q who are capable of completing content. (those who can just won't)
FBI is super easy. Ran it last night with a group all 13K and we beat it no problem. FBI is fine as is.
MSPC is the hardest of the last 3 dungeons. We did MSPC with 2 DC and still had issues. Took the same group into T9 and beat it in 36 minutes. MSPC has more mechanics than the other two T3 dungeons. FBI the hardest part is getting up the hill; if you can do that you already beat it. MSPC the hardest part, the whole dungeon due to it having adds everywhere, mechanics on bosses and well, you need good burn but not 17K DPS burn to beat it. T9, you need just two good 13K DPS to beat it that know how to play their character and for those who think that is fallacy, well took a 12.8 and a 14.1 DPS through t9 and beat it at 41 minutes.
What is needed most in content is the proper buffing and debuffing groups.
I did a FBI run without a tank before. Templock, MoF Buffer, 1 DO and 2 DPS.
I like have stated in more than one post now, knowing how to get the most out of your character is more important than IL.
I have beaten a 16K near BiS on my lowly 13K HR that only uses R8 bondings and they were using R13 in almost all of their sockets. Again, knowing how to squeeze out all the damage you can out of your character matters more than IL.
fbi may be fine for you but it's not for randoms. try quing for it by yourself the way random que works. you can't judge difficulty based on what a good group is running for something like RAD runs. you have to judge it by what RAD actually tosses in to a game. you yourself talk about how you keep beating well geared players with your alts. if this is true then you clearly can't judge difficulty for the masses.
let them eat cake much?
That is how I got a 13K group, using ERQ.
As long as the players know how to play their character to its max potential you are fine. If the players are not optimize that is when issues show up.
To prove a point about T9 and MSPC I have been taking players who have both open up through both dungeons and all players thus far prefer T9 and find it easier than MSPC. Average t9 run with a under geared player is around 35 minutes or less. Average MSPC is around 45+ minutes. MSPC is harder due to it being mechanic heavy. T9 even with its mechanics is easier than MSPC.
Same group burns through FBI.
My point about any dungeon, even VT or MC, is if all members of the group don't know how to play their character it becomes harder. If all members know how to play their character, content is easier. This includes having the right companions, having bonding runestones or using augment companion, etc....
I ERQd an FBI on Saturday. I was on Healadin (17.2k), the tank was a 13k PS OP and the dps were all around 11k (2x HR & a GWF).
On the hill climb I found myself mostly alone - soloing the giants and adds. By the time we reached the door for Hati I was top DPS by more than double the Paingiver of the nearest 'actual dps'.
Halfway through Hati the GWF died for his 2nd time and went back to the door - the tank made his excuses to leave with just 30% left on the boss and shortly after he left one of the HRs found himself back at the door.
I chose to wipe after that and said "yeah this isn't going to work out - gg guys" and quit.
I'll give any a run a go regardless of the group but in my experience (of doing this), most players below 13k need to be carried through FBI & MSP and it's usually a very painful experience unless at least 3 of the team are true endgame players.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Forgive me if this has been pointed out already, but back when RQ was first mooted before it ever landed, the suggestion was put forward that, "instead of locking low levels out of epics, how about a sliding scale where anyone above level 70 can queue, but only land in IL appropriate content" (I'm paraphrasing for clarity...) The fairly swift, and rather unanimous response was, "You do realise that if they do that, people will just unsummon companions and unequip gear so they don't end up in T3s and have the easiest run possible, right?"
That being the case, I'd be interested to read the OP's way round this, as I would far prefer to earn a few fewer RADS on my alts if they were allowed access to level (and IL) appropriate content. As that would be a more entertaining way of spending my time on this GAME.
Comments
I have ran FBI as a REQ many times now and the average time to beat is around 45 minutes with a 13K average IL for the group. Getting 1 strong DPS or a strong tank that can also do DPS makes all the difference in content. I ran FBI as a 3 man group 1 - tank, 1 DC and 1 DPS an we beat it a bit over 30 minutes.
Knowledge of the content mechanics and your class plays way more of a role in completing content than IL. I have seen a 18K GWF get beat in T9 by a 15K SW, the GWF was BiS and the SW was working on building up their character and the GWF got the damage buff on Orcus, so there. Again, IL means HAMSTER if you have no idea how to play your class effectively.
Just like other MMOs the IL is a determining factor of what content you can access and the RQ system should be a one stop to run 2 or 3 random content that awards bonus AD daily. All content that you have opened up based on your IL should be in the RQ system. This method would benefit DPS as of right now many wait hours on end to get into a ERQ dungeon and so never get in and lose out on AD. By combing the Standard, Epic, Trial and Skirmish into one q system, all players will have an easier time being awarded bonus AD. The only content not include in the RQ would be the current Skirmish, Epic Dungeon and Trial.
Call me mad but this system would be better and 2 runs to get maximum daily bonus AD is much better than what is currently in place.
If you get FBI/mSP from RED, would you stay?
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
It doesn't make sense that you will find three people to rig the vote, but can't be bothered to find two more for a proper gold run. Perhaps gold run isn't as popular as you think it is. Or maybe you just like HAMSTER blocking RQ players.
If someone asks for bronze, I tell them I intend to afk after the first round. This is in support of the RQ player who really doesn't want gold. But you'd be surprised how many times the other three go gold (vote riggers).
If someone ask for gold, I tell them I will afk, but feel free to go gold. I will wait for my AD.
Most runs where I afk actually end civilized now. There may be some light jokes. But otherwise, the rest of the group does gold, or wipes, and leaves quietly.
To the special jerks who yell at me and tries to bully me into participating, I have a +4 gear ready to post in chat at the end of the run to rub it in their face. I call this discouraging gold runs that can benefit "leechers".
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
But wait, there's more. If you happen to get unlucky and end up in a run with a bunch of other scrubs who also queued for that dungeon, you can leave with no penalty and immediately queue again till you get your dream carry team!
I did a FBI q and I left first and got the 30 minute penalty.
On my GF I did the same thing but I left after the DC and go no penalty.
MSPC is the hardest of the last 3 dungeons. We did MSPC with 2 DC and still had issues. Took the same group into T9 and beat it in 36 minutes. MSPC has more mechanics than the other two T3 dungeons. FBI the hardest part is getting up the hill; if you can do that you already beat it. MSPC the hardest part, the whole dungeon due to it having adds everywhere, mechanics on bosses and well, you need good burn but not 17K DPS burn to beat it. T9, you need just two good 13K DPS to beat it that know how to play their character and for those who think that is fallacy, well took a 12.8 and a 14.1 DPS through t9 and beat it at 41 minutes.
What is needed most in content is the proper buffing and debuffing groups.
I did a FBI run without a tank before. Templock, MoF Buffer, 1 DO and 2 DPS.
I like have stated in more than one post now, knowing how to get the most out of your character is more important than IL.
I have beaten a 16K near BiS on my lowly 13K HR that only uses R8 bondings and they were using R13 in almost all of their sockets. Again, knowing how to squeeze out all the damage you can out of your character matters more than IL.
I have seen 17K GWF get beat by TR regularly in T9 and quite a few raged quit after Orcus because the TR did not have the buff and they still got beat in damage. Some players worry to much about what is on the paingiver chart instead of just playing to have fun.
If I stop having fun with NW, I will switch games. Right now I am enjoying NW quite a bit as I'm helping others get through T3 content for the first time. It a blast listening to their input on the content. And all of them have performed well enough to join us if we are missing a DPS for any of our runs we do.
As long as the players know how to play their character to its max potential you are fine. If the players are not optimize that is when issues show up.
To prove a point about T9 and MSPC I have been taking players who have both open up through both dungeons and all players thus far prefer T9 and find it easier than MSPC. Average t9 run with a under geared player is around 35 minutes or less. Average MSPC is around 45+ minutes. MSPC is harder due to it being mechanic heavy. T9 even with its mechanics is easier than MSPC.
Same group burns through FBI.
My point about any dungeon, even VT or MC, is if all members of the group don't know how to play their character it becomes harder. If all members know how to play their character, content is easier. This includes having the right companions, having bonding runestones or using augment companion, etc....
On the hill climb I found myself mostly alone - soloing the giants and adds. By the time we reached the door for Hati I was top DPS by more than double the Paingiver of the nearest 'actual dps'.
Halfway through Hati the GWF died for his 2nd time and went back to the door - the tank made his excuses to leave with just 30% left on the boss and shortly after he left one of the HRs found himself back at the door.
I chose to wipe after that and said "yeah this isn't going to work out - gg guys" and quit.
I'll give any a run a go regardless of the group but in my experience (of doing this), most players below 13k need to be carried through FBI & MSP and it's usually a very painful experience unless at least 3 of the team are true endgame players.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
The fairly swift, and rather unanimous response was, "You do realise that if they do that, people will just unsummon companions and unequip gear so they don't end up in T3s and have the easiest run possible, right?"
That being the case, I'd be interested to read the OP's way round this, as I would far prefer to earn a few fewer RADS on my alts if they were allowed access to level (and IL) appropriate content. As that would be a more entertaining way of spending my time on this GAME.