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Why the force leveling?

cap1776cap1776 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
Dear Neverwinter folks.

I'm going to start by stating that i understand all of the reasons that people want to be speed/power leveled to level 70 and beyond. I know that this is pretty much the majority of the players.

However...

I have been around since Beta. I have loved the game since I first played. But I have had one huge problem:

It has become impossible to play the pre level 70 storylines without being what I call "force-leveled" beyond them.

I love the stories that were written for Neverwinter. I have restarted characters numerous times. Unfortunately, no matter what I do (Avoid invoking after the intial mission, avoid skirmishes and raids, only log in to events as much as I have to to earn rewards), I wind up outleveling the missions somewhere around Neverdeath. By the time I finish that area and get my bag, I am usually pushing level 35-40. This means that it doesn;t take me long to be able to easily destroy most of what I encounter in Helm's Hold, Ebon Downs and so on.

And this is not counting what happens if I dare to join a guild and go to the Stronghold at all. From what I can tell, those missions are truly geared to jet propel a character to level 70.

Now I am not bad-talking the game. I am just extremely frustrated. I DO want to play the level 70 content, but NOT until I am able to actually enjoy the earlier stuff at an appropriate level.

Take my GWF, for example. I have done a lot to try to hold his level back, as I wanted to enjoy the Icespire Peak storyline, and then move to the Underdark missions with my son. Unfortunately, despite my efforts, we are not quite done with Icespire and we are well past level 60. I'm afraid that by the time we get to the Underdark, which we have anticipated for a long time, we will simply be too high level to enjoy it.

I can't understand it. I understand ahy there are extras to help those who WANT to zoom to 70. What I fail to understand is why those of us who do NOT want that are still being boosted as well.

I hear that "Level 70 is where the game begins" almost every day. I think that's a shame, as your people created some amazing stuff for sixty nine levels below that. Now why can't we be allowed to savor the entire trip? It's like taking a trip though Yellowstone National Park, but being shoved through on a Japanese rocket train.

Can't you PLEASE consider some option that allows those who don't want to be speed leveled to enjoy the game as well?

Answers

  • litaaerslitaaers Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 871 Arc User
    I believe there is an option to disable earning XP. Check the forums. I am leaving for work now, or I would.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    Sadly, it helps to think of the maps from Sleeping Dragon to Whispering Caverns as the game that this one grew out of. And as much as I loved those adventures, it seems unlikely that Cryptic considers them important to the longevity of the game.

    The ability to freeze XP gain could lead to some abuse, so I doubt they would consider it.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • preechr#2215 preechr Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    Unfortunately, it seems Cryptic is more interested in speeding up the journey to level 70 instead of setting XP gain to a rate that would pace player leveling with advancement through Adventure Zones

    The new mod increases the XP gain rate from 60-70, probably in expectation of an upcoming level cap increase, but IIRC they also made quests that you have overleveled still appear available

    So, hopefully you can still complete the quests in order and would just earn less XP for them as you go, but you'd be pretty over-powered and face-rolling through them unless you intentionally wore lower level gear... not sure if even that would fix it though

    The last few alts I leveled up got to 70 in lvl 20-30 gear, but I wasn't trying to follow the story

    It is a shame that so much content is being effectively hidden for the sake of, apparently, catering to the lowest common denominator player that gets bored with stuff like story and learning how things work

    It feels like the game expects players to skip most of it instead of actually play it
  • litaaerslitaaers Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 871 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    litaaers said:

    I believe there is an option to disable earning XP. Check the forums. I am leaving for work now, or I would.

    I'm pretty sure that is not currently an option in Neverwinter, but will totally forward the suggestion to the dev team.
    @kreatyve Do you ever remember this being an option? I SWEAR I heard in Forum banter of a checkbox/console command that turned off XP accumulation. Perhaps I'm imagining it, but the feeling is strong....
  • litaaerslitaaers Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 871 Arc User
    litaaers said:

    kreatyve said:

    litaaers said:

    I believe there is an option to disable earning XP. Check the forums. I am leaving for work now, or I would.

    I'm pretty sure that is not currently an option in Neverwinter, but will totally forward the suggestion to the dev team.
    @kreatyve Do you ever remember this being an option? I SWEAR I heard in Forum banter of a checkbox/console command that turned off XP accumulation. Perhaps I'm imagining it, but the feeling is strong....
    Dear God, I think I'm confusing NW with another game. Either DDO or CoH. And I'm still not sure. My apologies.

  • cap1776cap1776 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    litaaers said:

    litaaers said:

    kreatyve said:

    litaaers said:

    I believe there is an option to disable earning XP. Check the forums. I am leaving for work now, or I would.

    I'm pretty sure that is not currently an option in Neverwinter, but will totally forward the suggestion to the dev team.
    @kreatyve Do you ever remember this being an option? I SWEAR I heard in Forum banter of a checkbox/console command that turned off XP accumulation. Perhaps I'm imagining it, but the feeling is strong....
    Dear God, I think I'm confusing NW with another game. Either DDO or CoH. And I'm still not sure. My apologies.

    I think I remember that towards the end, CoH added a stop XP temporarily option. I remember thinking that it was a fantastic idea.

    To whomever said that it could be abused, I would have to wonder how. It wouldn't give a player more access to AD than going up in level normally.

    What I DO know is that I started playing with a friend who is new just a week and a half ago. We are not in a guild, and missed a couple of days, yet we just completed Neverdeath Graveyard... at level 63. This means that unless we want to spend a lot of time playing with no rewards just to experience the middle regions, we might as well completely ignore all of the regions prior to Elemental Evil, Underdark and Sharandar. And now with the new reduced level requirements, I KNOW we'll be 70 well before finishing any of those campaigns. :(
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,183 Arc User
    cap1776 said:

    litaaers said:

    litaaers said:

    kreatyve said:

    litaaers said:

    I believe there is an option to disable earning XP. Check the forums. I am leaving for work now, or I would.

    I'm pretty sure that is not currently an option in Neverwinter, but will totally forward the suggestion to the dev team.
    @kreatyve Do you ever remember this being an option? I SWEAR I heard in Forum banter of a checkbox/console command that turned off XP accumulation. Perhaps I'm imagining it, but the feeling is strong....
    Dear God, I think I'm confusing NW with another game. Either DDO or CoH. And I'm still not sure. My apologies.

    I think I remember that towards the end, CoH added a stop XP temporarily option. I remember thinking that it was a fantastic idea.

    To whomever said that it could be abused, I would have to wonder how. It wouldn't give a player more access to AD than going up in level normally.

    What I DO know is that I started playing with a friend who is new just a week and a half ago. We are not in a guild, and missed a couple of days, yet we just completed Neverdeath Graveyard... at level 63. This means that unless we want to spend a lot of time playing with no rewards just to experience the middle regions, we might as well completely ignore all of the regions prior to Elemental Evil, Underdark and Sharandar. And now with the new reduced level requirements, I KNOW we'll be 70 well before finishing any of those campaigns. :(
    The abuse part is someone can have alts to stay in very low level. When it RQ, it will always get Clock Tower because it does not qualify to do others.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 838 Arc User


    The new mod increases the XP gain rate from 60-70, probably in expectation of an upcoming level cap increase, but IIRC they also made quests that you have overleveled still appear available

    Yeah, it's not just happening to leveling characters. I've found that since yesterday my level 70 characters are earning overflow XP at a much, much faster clip.

    Normally it takes about a week of regular play before my main level 70 toon gets a "Claim Rewards" button on the bottom right corner of the screen. Between yesterday and today I got that button 3 times, playing at the same pace I always play.

    The next 2XP event will be...interesting.

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,183 Arc User
    edited March 2018


    The new mod increases the XP gain rate from 60-70, probably in expectation of an upcoming level cap increase, but IIRC they also made quests that you have overleveled still appear available

    Yeah, it's not just happening to leveling characters. I've found that since yesterday my level 70 characters are earning overflow XP at a much, much faster clip.

    Normally it takes about a week of regular play before my main level 70 toon gets a "Claim Rewards" button on the bottom right corner of the screen. Between yesterday and today I got that button 3 times, playing at the same pace I always play.

    The next 2XP event will be...interesting.

    The overflow XP reward is supposed to be 1.7 million. It is now 100K. 1/17 of what used to be.
    Probably a bug. 100K was the limit many mods ago. I think they messed up and probably it will be fixed tomorrow.

    They also nerf'ed the XP reward of the Baphomet weekly quest significantly, about 1/4 of what it used to be. I could not find that mention anywhere in the patch note.

    EDIT: I take it back. It announced there will be no maintenance on PC tomorrow.
    EDIT: It is not a bug. Oh, well!
    Post edited by plasticbat on
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,041 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    Well, i was hoping to see a change for a guaranteed Power Point in the old Overflow reward system... but this change will do for now as well. And i hope this change will stay since the random reward (hello again 5 Black pearls or a single Flawless Saphire...) is still the same, with the reduced Overflow XP we've at least more chances to get a Power point per session.

    Anyway, isn't there something about reduced XP rewards in the patch notes?
    Post edited by regenerde on
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,183 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    regenerde said:

    Well, i was hoping to see a change for a guaranteed Power Point in the old Overflow reward system... but this change will do for now as well. And i hope this change will stay since the random reward (hello again 5 Black pearls or a single Flawless Saphire...) is still the same, with the reduced Overflow XP we've at least more chances to get a Power point per session.

    Anyway, isn't there something about reduced XP rewards in the patch notes?

    The patch note talked about XP between 60 and 70. Is Maze Engine now part of 60 to 70? I don't remember. I was thinking that change was about EE only.

    By the way, if they keep 100K, people may start to like tome of experience. It comes with 10 and 5000 each. So, half of the XP reward can be recovered. It is like getting half of the ticket back from lotto. :)
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User
    They changed the XP gains to make 60-70 leveling smoother.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,183 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    greywynd said:

    They changed the XP gains to make 60-70 leveling smoother.

    What I referred to is the last sentence in the "Level 60-70 Experience Re-Smoothing" section.

    Note that the experience rewards from Elemental Evil and other post-60 content, which were much higher than other content, have also been reduced proportionally.


    I guess post-70 is also considered as post-60. I did not read it that way when I first read it because it is in level 60-70 section somehow I was not thinking level 70 is part of it.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • dafrca#4810 dafrca Member Posts: 469 Arc User

    The abuse part is someone can have alts to stay in very low level. When it RQ, it will always get Clock Tower because it does not qualify to do others.

    I never thought of that, but I can see it happening. Thanks for answering the question. :)

  • cap1776cap1776 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited March 2018

    The abuse part is someone can have alts to stay in very low level. When it RQ, it will always get Clock Tower because it does not qualify to do others.

    I am sorry, but this doesn't make sense to me. Why would having a low level alt to run Cloak Tower over and over matter? I have 2 70s and have to run Cloak Tower pretty much every single day with at least one of them. The rewards aren't better at any level. To be honest, there does not seemt o be an advantage of running one dungeon over others, and the Cloak Tower is one of the most aggravating because I get kicked from that one because I don't slot movement.

    How would running Cloak Tower every time be an abuse? What does it matter which dungeons a player runs through?

  • cap1776cap1776 Member Posts: 54 Arc User

    The abuse part is someone can have alts to stay in very low level. When it RQ, it will always get Clock Tower because it does not qualify to do others.

    I don't understand this. I have 2 70s and have to run Cloak Tower pretty much every single day. I hate running Cloak Tower. What does it matter which dungeon a player goes through? Heck, the Cloak Tower rewards are the lowest level.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,183 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    cap1776 said:

    The abuse part is someone can have alts to stay in very low level. When it RQ, it will always get Clock Tower because it does not qualify to do others.

    I don't understand this. I have 2 70s and have to run Cloak Tower pretty much every single day. I hate running Cloak Tower. What does it matter which dungeon a player goes through? Heck, the Cloak Tower rewards are the lowest level.
    After RQ is introduced, the way to earn AD is through running RQ. If you are level 70 and run leveling RQ dungeon, you can get any dungeon. It can be a long one or it can be a short one like Cloak Tower. There are people who have many alt characters (such as 30). They run level RQ one by one everyday for AD. The prefer dungeon for AD runner is Cloak Tower because it is fast. It was also the prefer level dungeon for AD before mod 12b.

    If their alt will not be level up, they will just equip them some cheap but powerful to that level equipment and just keep on running (say) 30 alts to do AD RQ run (which will always pick Cloak Tower) every day.

    Basically, time matters. For only 2, you don't really care. If you run a fleet, you want to be very fast and cheap.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • marv700#9957 marv700 Member Posts: 135 Arc User

    cap1776 said:

    The abuse part is someone can have alts to stay in very low level. When it RQ, it will always get Clock Tower because it does not qualify to do others.

    I don't understand this. I have 2 70s and have to run Cloak Tower pretty much every single day. I hate running Cloak Tower. What does it matter which dungeon a player goes through? Heck, the Cloak Tower rewards are the lowest level.
    After RQ is introduced, the way to earn AD is through running RQ. If you are level 70 and run leveling RQ dungeon, you can get any dungeon. It can be a long one or it can be a short one like Cloak Tower. There are people who have many alt characters (such as 30). They run level RQ one by one everyday for AD. The prefer dungeon for AD runner is Cloak Tower because it is fast. It was also the prefer level dungeon for AD before mod 12b.

    If their alt will not be level up, they will just equip them some cheap but powerful to that level equipment and just keep on running (say) 30 alts to do AD RQ run (which will always pick Cloak Tower) every day.

    Basically, time matters. For only 2, you don't really care. If you run a fleet, you want to be very fast and cheap.
    LOL that isn't abuse, that is punishment. You would want to get Temple of the Spider every time. That is by far the fastest to run. Cloak Tower is quite annoying and slow.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,183 Arc User
    edited March 2018


    cap1776 said:

    The abuse part is someone can have alts to stay in very low level. When it RQ, it will always get Clock Tower because it does not qualify to do others.

    I don't understand this. I have 2 70s and have to run Cloak Tower pretty much every single day. I hate running Cloak Tower. What does it matter which dungeon a player goes through? Heck, the Cloak Tower rewards are the lowest level.
    After RQ is introduced, the way to earn AD is through running RQ. If you are level 70 and run leveling RQ dungeon, you can get any dungeon. It can be a long one or it can be a short one like Cloak Tower. There are people who have many alt characters (such as 30). They run level RQ one by one everyday for AD. The prefer dungeon for AD runner is Cloak Tower because it is fast. It was also the prefer level dungeon for AD before mod 12b.

    If their alt will not be level up, they will just equip them some cheap but powerful to that level equipment and just keep on running (say) 30 alts to do AD RQ run (which will always pick Cloak Tower) every day.

    Basically, time matters. For only 2, you don't really care. If you run a fleet, you want to be very fast and cheap.
    LOL that isn't abuse, that is punishment. You would want to get Temple of the Spider every time. That is by far the fastest to run. Cloak Tower is quite annoying and slow.
    Yes, that would be the best but you can't make RQ to come up with TOS every time (if XP level can be frozen). Regardless, frozen XP level allows players to do something about RQ selection and it does not have to be as low as Cloak Tower.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    Beyond Cloak Tower, it would allow level 70s to group with one perpetually level 69 character and always get Master of the Hunt, avoiding the pitfalls of Throne, POM and Illusionist's.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • marv700#9957 marv700 Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    I think what are saying is the game needs to be designed around appropriately punishing players. POM, Throne, etc are all red card randoms. I'll be honest, I log out if I get those. Perhaps they need to rethink the RQ.

    Folks used to run TOS all the time because it was fast and the least annoying dungeon. If I get one that I don't like, I just log out. I'm playing the game for fun, not to feel like I'm being punished.

    In any case, none of these are legitimate enough reasons not to implement what the OP was asking for. Even if folks can use it to get slightly faster RQ, who cares. I'm disconnecting if I get a crappy one anyway.
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    I sincerely do not see what the problem is.

    Higher geared players will actually play to earn XP and get some rewards here and there.

    XP boosts became a viable choice now, especially in running the Chult/Omu segments. It makes Lure hunting so much less tedious when you can "DING" and compete with the teammates who'll "DING" more :)

    No, seriously, stop looking for problems in every.single.aspect.of.the.game. This is a great implementation and never, ever, in the history of Neverwinter was important to "take time and explore"/ This was a game where you have tutorial up to the level of 60, and then you start building up yourself in T2 dungeons. Then you'd be slammed with MOD6 and you had somewhat fun in exploring the story in MOD6, doing quests up until level 70 where it was guaranteed that you'd get an Elemental weapon artifact. So, it was a RACE at the time and that's what made it interesting...

    Quests, not so much. Quests were never that deep or immersive for anyone, really. And if you wanted something deep or immersive to some point, and I'm not saying that there is such a thing, you'd play Foundry quests.

    Not to bash upon the people who like to RP or simply enjoy the aesthetics of the Neverwinter, but people who play this game just to enjoy the leveling aspect from 1-60 levels are weird to me at this point of the game.

    Besides, leveling was never an issue to begin with. Anyone could power-level with ease. I was doing just quests at mod 3-4 and end up with a lvl 60 MoF in less than 6 hours. Just quests. It is so easy to levelup that it becomes a factor you may just put aside as a bonus you get here and there.

    So, this system REWARDS players who actually play and invest time into playing rather than to reward people who simply do professions and nothing else, at all, botting entire day and whatnot. That's a terrible way to "play" a game.

    Refinement system is amazing at this point. It was never any better, at all. It's simply perfect.
    Experience overflow is amazing at this point. It allows people to earn some extra power points when building a character. It rewards playing the game rather than to make 50+ characters who'll jumpstart dung/skirm combo to earn AD. This way you may also get some RAD. And it makes servers a bit bigger in my opinion.

    Let it last as long as it last. You have no idea how stupid it is to get into POM and see people leave immediately.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User
    PoM hasn't worked correctly since the first time they broke it.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • We were already over-leveling 60-70 fast- at least if you have ViP or any booster- which new toons get for free now in the updated tutorial. Well all of it really. Doing quests while over-level just becomes normal. It happens in lots of games too throughout the decades. I cn't think of a game where I wasn't out-leveling things save GW2 and even with that one's make you the level of the zone feature... your still over-geared for those lower zones and OP for them. I don't fault this game or others for something that is common in all MMOs.

    CoH's old 'Hold your leveling" was a nice feature.... I believe WoW and some others had it too for a time- but as they also were either partially or very PvP centrist and with such a feature you could sit in a nice cushy level range till you got all your needed points... well I can see why those games dropped it. Since this game also has level based PVP... I wouldn't expect such a feature pretty much ever.

    Damnit PVP ... your why we can't have nice things for PvE all the time in almost all the games. (Shakes finger)

    JK :pensive: Don't get mad at me PvP folks.

    As for the faster levels after 70- I hope that isn't a bug to be fixed on monday! I love it :)

    Makes up for that silly Adventure Pack in the lockbox. A little.... :neutral:




  • g0dfr3yg0dfr3y Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    cap1776 said:

    Dear Neverwinter folks.

    Take my GWF, for example. I have done a lot to try to hold his level back, as I wanted to enjoy the Icespire Peak storyline, and then move to the Underdark missions with my son. Unfortunately, despite my efforts, we are not quite done with Icespire and we are well past level 60. I'm afraid that by the time we get to the Underdark, which we have anticipated for a long time, we will simply be too high level to enjoy it.


    If it's any consolation, my level 64 CW got flattened by the Revered Thlorogg last night.
  • badkarma989#6736 badkarma989 Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    I skipped over a lot of this but I have this to add as a noob, EverQuest II includes an XP limiter with the AA line and Tradeskill XP lines on a slider so you can spec the percentage of adventure XP your toon gets as opposed to how much goes to AA advancement or Tradeskill advance. That being said, in that game, unless you were working up a TS toon as opposed to a combat toon, there's not much point in altering it.

    As a noob with about 90 hours in (across a couple of years now, at this point, other games other interests blah blah) I will say that I'm suprised in how fast I made it to 49. It occured to me a couple of nights ago that I'd gone through one of the areas without being attacked once, the mobs only came to me if I nuked one, otherwise I was free to run through at will. It reduced the playing aspect, I ran my quests just to get them out of the way and advance down the line. Like god-mode in DOOM, too much of that will sap the fun out of anything.

    I've noticed that some areas limit your level for some reason, perhaps that would be a solution? Regardless what your actual level was, a particular area will level-limit you automatically? Not raise you up to it's level but <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> your actual level down to the appropriate range? The graveyard seems to do this, perhaps the mechanic can be applied everywhere else?

    Just a thought. As I might have mentioned, I'm a noob to the game.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    Areas related to Tyranny of Dragons do that, the rest of Neverdeath does not. It is because ToD is intended for people to return to it while the leveling zones are otherwise one time affairs.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • bobby4700bobby4700 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 179 Arc User
    myself I would say the extreme leveling aspect is due to lack of another AD/zen dump . Most guilds with the heavy paying people are at max so to get money in game there fix is get you to 70 and have spend to get gear up to others at 70 lvl.
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