test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

When will u fix that HUGE difficulty gap between epic dungeons?

oxymaoxyma Member Posts: 30 Arc User
edited February 2018 in General Discussion (PC)
Hello

I'd like to finish my tomb of the nine gods or fangbreaker island when i queue in public queue, because right now it's impossible to finish those 2 dungeons with 1 Cleric, it's so true that u can wait up to 45mins to find players for those dungeons in public queue.

When u can finish Castle never or anything below when u queue up in public queue, there is no ways u can finish a tong when u queue in public queue.

Right now, 2 Cleric and 15k items lvl+ is mandatory for those dungeons

That kills the fun to be honest.

Make 2 Devoted Cleric and 15k item lvl+ NOT mandatory to do Tong, MSP, FBI, MSVA
«13

Comments

  • isaintify1isaintify1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 414 Arc User
    You do not need two DCs at the current time. You need two DCs for more like speed runs. which can cut off (with a good team) like a whole 8 minutes. yay. Not what I call fun. My fastest tong run was 15minutes, and it was one of the most boring and unfun dungeons ive ever done.
  • heraldfayez#8520 heraldfayez Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    oxyma said:

    Hello

    I'd like to finish my tomb of the nine gods or fangbreaker island when i queue in public queue, because right now it's impossible to finish those 2 dungeons with 1 Cleric, it's so true that u can wait up to 45mins to find players for those dungeons in public queue.

    When u can finish Castle never or anything below when u queue up in public queue, there is no ways u can finish a tong when u queue in public queue.

    Right now, 2 Cleric and 15k items lvl+ is mandatory for those dungeons

    lol can't finish FBI with 1 cleric ? mate FBI been done by 2 players soloing it (Duo) a DPS and 1 Cleric and some people even did the dungeon solo so that means any party composition should be able to finish the dungeon as long as they have 1 tank or 1 cleric i'm not saying it will be the fastest runs but doable yes it is

    double DC is not mandatory but it just makes runs faster it is not a MUST HAVE so your point here invalid as there is other classes they can bring debuffs to the table as well
    oxyma said:

    Make 2 Devoted Cleric and 15k item lvl+ NOT mandatory to do Tong, MSP, FBI, MSVA

    again with the double DC it is not at all needed to have 2 of them and as for item level striking agian you really don't need 15K to do those dungeons the aprty just need to know thier roles i see many parties where everyone trying to do DPS even thoguh it's making the game fail that's not how the game is supposed to be played you need a balance between Damage Buffs /debuffs healing tanking etc etc...
  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Member Posts: 1,654 Arc User
    Just ran 2 FBIs last night in RQ pugs. It's doable. Just easier if you have control of who's in your group.

    1st run: GF/GWF/GWF/GWF/DC(me)
    Group disbanded at Hati because tank was doing god knows what and ticking off the rest of the group. One GWF had almost 140M while the rest of the team had maybe a collective 70M. One GWF had about 1M more in damage than I did on my DC. One GWF left on the hill climb and we got a CW. CW left at Hati. Utter fail group that wasted about 25 minutes. I inspected before we started run because I didn't waste my time and ILs made it seem like it should have gone smoothly. The hill climb should have been my first sign that half the team didn't really know what they were doing.

    2nd run: OP/GWF/GWF/CW/DC(me)
    Much smoother run. Everyone seemed to know what they were doing and ILs were between 12-16k. I think the OP was 16k. Everyone else was 12-14k so not like it was high end group. But we melted through the whole thing smoothly. Even when I made the newb mistake of not noticing that my companion wasn't summoned for the final boss. Took about 16-17 minutes.

    The reason I'm sharing this is because I had a very negative opinion towards even attempting to run RQ FBI/MSP/etc. Last night I decided to try it and by the end of the night, well, I still won't run it most times. But now I may do it once in a while if I have time to kill.
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 932 Arc User
    2 dc is not needed in tong but at least 2 buffers maybe 3 is very much the goto group composition .. most only run 1 dps or maybe 2.

    I totally agree with the insane jump between cn and fbi .. there is no transition in dificulty and that is causing people to abandon the game at mid level
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    It has been 5 YEARS since last new class this is getting ridiculous
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Please do master/normal version of dungeons. This way content for all MOD 19 have nothing new for vast majority of player base. Giving an EVENT is not same thing as permanent content for non BIS. As we suggested in CDP
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • oxymaoxyma Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    mynaam said:



    I totally agree with the insane jump between cn and fbi .. there is no transition in dificulty and that is causing people to abandon the game at mid level

    Wish the mods could understand that :/
  • rickcase276rickcase276 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,403 Arc User
    From what they said in the AMA yesterday, they know that there is a dungeon gap between FBI and CN, but at this time they have no intent on releasing a dungeon to fill the gap. Same issue with bringing back the old dungeons that have not been returned yet. Its all about return on investment for them, so end-game dungeons are more profitable for their game model at this instance. Will it change in the future? Only time will tell.
  • oxymaoxyma Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    pitshade said:

    You don't need 15k IL or 2 DCs to finish Tomb.

    You do not need two DCs at the current time.


    So why does no1 queue in public queue? Why do they play only in private? You just throw lies without proofs.
    To be sure you dont need 2 DC, queue up in TONG, public queue and tell me if u can finish it
  • rickcase276rickcase276 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,403 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    Its simple, people would rather play with their friends or guildmates, so there is little reason to queue in public. I have seen too much of people in public queue that think everyone should play their characters as that person wants them to be played, not as the person that has the character wants to play. So until you fix that nature of players, more people will private queue than public queue. And if it can't be completed in public queue it is not the fault of the game, it is the fault of the players not willing to work together for the common good.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    > @oxyma said:
    > You don't need 15k IL or 2 DCs to finish Tomb.
    >
    > You do not need two DCs at the current time.
    >
    >
    > So why does no1 queue in public queue? Why do they play only in private? You just throw lies without proofs.
    > To be sure you dont need 2 DC, queue up in TONG, public queue and tell me if u can finish it

    I have done Heroes Accord on several occasions on my CW and been sole DC on others. Heroes Accord is public queue, but we went in with a premade party because if you read my earlier post, you need a group that is willing to work together and learn. That is very rare to find in public queue if you get randoms in your group. To beat Tomb, you need people that work together, communicate and dont squabble or rage quit.

    Dont confuse Public Queue with queuing solo.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    pitshade said:

    You don't need 15k IL or 2 DCs to finish Tomb. You need people who understand their roles, are familiar with the mechanics and are willing to fail a few times and keep going. Anyway, next week new weapons with much higher damage will be available and that will eventually help out.

    And, TONG will be added to RED, so maybe that will help as well...
  • oxymaoxyma Member Posts: 30 Arc User

    pitshade said:

    You don't need 15k IL or 2 DCs to finish Tomb. You need people who understand their roles, are familiar with the mechanics and are willing to fail a few times and keep going. Anyway, next week new weapons with much higher damage will be available and that will eventually help out.

    And, TONG will be added to RED, so maybe that will help as well...
    Everyone will leave, just like when they get Fangbreaker island, the players know what need to be fixed.
  • oxymaoxyma Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    From what they said in the AMA yesterday, they know that there is a dungeon gap between FBI and CN

    Only the players with low item lvl and newbies are punished, as always.

    I'm not against challenge and difficulty in dungeons but,
    there is no challenge or difficulty for the party with 2 DC


    When the party with 1 dc in public queue takes 10 mins to kill the 1st boss (if they can even remove 5% of his HP before they die)
    The party from private queue with 2 DC destroy that boss in less than 2 mins with no difficulty or challenge.
  • klangeddinklangeddin Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 882 Arc User
    The CN -> FBI Gap problem is real, and getting the required IL to even enter the dungeon can be problematic for some players.
    Hopefully this issue will be solved by the standard "power creep" that will make everyone stronger and grant both easier access and higher % success chance for random groups.
    The real issue is if they will repeat similar mistakes in the future or not.
  • benyrbenyr Member Posts: 237 Arc User
    > @oxyma said:
    > When the party with 1 dc in public queue takes 10 mins to kill the 1st boss (if they can even remove 5% of his HP before they die)

    You shouldnt die tackling the first boss if you follow the dungeon mechanics not the speed run meta. If you have an OP protection with you give him the temp hp curse, and using tw he can fend off the green balls indefinitely, meaning you can take as long as it takes to kill orcus.
    We did trial alliance run with 3dps 1dc 1op, three of whom were a too low il level to public queue for Tong. Yes it took ages, 50 mins to kill Orcus alone, but its doable, so a collection of reasonable il player in public Q, should be able to do it in a more reasonable time.
  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    As someone who solo public queues all the time for Random Epic Dungeon, I would say it is very rare to find a team that can even get past first boss of FBI or MSP. Only once have I finished FBI with a truly random team in public queue, never with MSP.

    It would be nice if the devs could give us back one of the old dungeons, like say Throne of Idris, to be the intermediate dungeon between CN and FBI. Just dust off the old dungeon as-is, make all of the mobs Level 73, and go.
  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    benyr said:

    > @oxyma said:

    > When the party with 1 dc in public queue takes 10 mins to kill the 1st boss (if they can even remove 5% of his HP before they die)



    You shouldnt die tackling the first boss if you follow the dungeon mechanics not the speed run meta. If you have an OP protection with you give him the temp hp curse, and using tw he can fend off the green balls indefinitely, meaning you can take as long as it takes to kill orcus.

    We did trial alliance run with 3dps 1dc 1op, three of whom were a too low il level to public queue for Tong. Yes it took ages, 50 mins to kill Orcus alone, but its doable, so a collection of reasonable il player in public Q, should be able to do it in a more reasonable time.

    What if it's the OP with the low Item Level? Then you're sorta doomed.

    It's not the "speed run meta" to use 2 DC's. That's more of a standard meta for all types of teams, not just those who want to break records. The "speed runners" are the ones using all of the 'undocumented features' to kill Orcus in 5-10 seconds.
  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    oxyma said:

    From what they said in the AMA yesterday, they know that there is a dungeon gap between FBI and CN

    Only the players with low item lvl and newbies are punished, as always.

    I'm not against challenge and difficulty in dungeons but,
    there is no challenge or difficulty for the party with 2 DC


    When the party with 1 dc in public queue takes 10 mins to kill the 1st boss (if they can even remove 5% of his HP before they die)
    The party from private queue with 2 DC destroy that boss in less than 2 mins with no difficulty or challenge.
    Okay, what is with all of the Zero critical hits at the beginning of the boss fight?
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    Tell me, why would one "have to have" 2 DCs in TonG, when I did a no DC run and so have many others?
    I think you made a typo. You meant "have to have skill" instead.


  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    I think before condemning players as bad, we should all realize that this game is really composed of three or four different games that we all experience. I have been in TONG groups in which I was the only DC and we finished in a decent (~25-30 min) period of time, no problem. I have also been in groups which could not get past the first set of giants in FBI. To groups of this second type, it may sure seem like that groups "need" 2 DC's in order to finish.
  • rickcase276rickcase276 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,403 Arc User
    I do not think it is a matter of players being bad players. It is more a matter of not knowing/caring about the mechanics that are at play in the dungeons. It all comes back to the paingiver chart issue. I still maintain, even in public random queue, any combination of classes (that fit the restrictions and ilevel) should be able to complete any dungeon. Now, yes, not in the time that the devs say it can be completed in. That is of course assuming they can generate enough dps, to get by the parts that you have to dps your way through.
  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User

    I still maintain, even in public random queue, any combination of classes (that fit the restrictions and ilevel) should be able to complete any dungeon.

    I have quite a bit of empirical evidence that casts doubt on your claim.

  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User

    I do not think it is a matter of players being bad players. It is more a matter of not knowing/caring about the mechanics that are at play in the dungeons. It all comes back to the paingiver chart issue. I still maintain, even in public random queue, any combination of classes (that fit the restrictions and ilevel) should be able to complete any dungeon. Now, yes, not in the time that the devs say it can be completed in. That is of course assuming they can generate enough dps, to get by the parts that you have to dps your way through.

    That would kill any sense of progression. If early game is exactly the same as end game, what's there to make us want to get high item level?
  • rickcase276rickcase276 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,403 Arc User
    Then the question comes down to, Why then are there 2 different paragon paths, 3 trees etc per class? If they are all not able to at least be competent in end-game then there would be little to no reason for the developer to make them. And I never said that any grouping of 3 dps, 1 tank and 1 healer would be able to do any dungeon quickly or effectively, but that they could eventually finish it, even if it took 4-5 hours. It is all a matter of patience and working together. Now would most players stay to do that, no. But it would be theoretically possible.
  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User

    Then the question comes down to, Why then are there 2 different paragon paths, 3 trees etc per class? If they are all not able to at least be competent in end-game then there would be little to no reason for the developer to make them. And I never said that any grouping of 3 dps, 1 tank and 1 healer would be able to do any dungeon quickly or effectively, but that they could eventually finish it, even if it took 4-5 hours. It is all a matter of patience and working together. Now would most players stay to do that, no. But it would be theoretically possible.

    In my opinion, the reason why not all paragons and trees are viable for every class is because the devs' ideas and understanding for each class has evolved over time.
  • preechr#2215 preechr Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    The fact that there is a "gap" between CN and FBI is not a problem... There is supposed to be a gap, and it should be significant

    Players that have not learned (or even played) FBI should expect to have difficulty with it, especially when they are pugging with others that also have not taken the time to learn anything about it

    It takes a lot of time and experimentation to learn a new dungeon, but luckily for you guys tons of others have already mastered it and there are a lot of videos you can watch on Youtube for free that explain exactly what you should be doing

    Complaining about a dungeon that has been out for over a year and that thousands of others have completed, especially when Cryptic has put the game in easy mode by providing weapons and armor that are WAY more powerful than anything anybody had access to a year ago, is just whining

    I am honestly at a loss when I see players that refuse to make friends, refuse to communicate with others in their party, refuse to learn anything about the game, and then insist that their problems are someone else's fault... Why are you even playing this game? Why are you playing ANY games?

    I can't help but think that threads like these are just trolls looking for attention, because I have doubts that anyone this far out of touch with reality could find the user forum, much less manage to start a topic

    It would be great if the forum members that constitute 90% of the posts here would just recognize this type of trolling for what it is and ignore them, letting them fall off the page

    ...and yes, I understand I am bumping this up by commenting on it

    There are plenty of other threads on these forums about real problems with the direction of the game and problems/bugs that need attention... Players that come here whining that someone should make the game even easier for them don't deserve attention, and the idea that some dev may stumble in here, read this, and decide to dumb down the game even more is just scary
  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    @preechr I would ask that before you condemn a good chunk of the playerbase as "bad players" that you first try to walk a mile in their shoes. Try public solo queueing for FBI a few times and see what happens. I will tell you what I find, that most teams will not get past the first boss. And I don't know if anyone here is really complaining about the difficulty of the dungeon itself, just that when it comes to expectations for dungeons in the Random Epic Queue, the expectations for FBI and MSP are way off the charts compared to the other dungeons. Like many others, I think the RED queue should have been broken up into two separate queues, one for CN and below, and another for FBI & MSP (and soon TONG in Mod 14, evidently), with different levels of appropriate rewards. But since they are all in the same queue, shouldn't there be roughly the same level of expectations? (Incidentally, I also think that ESOT and KR should be dropped back into the Skirmish category, because those are far too easy to be considered "dungeons".)

    I would encourage anyone who thinks that the game is just super-easy and the only reason people struggle is because they are bad awful terrible players, to try to experience the game from their point of view for a little while.

    And I thank you for pointing people to Youtube videos, they can be helpful, but sadly, most of the videos concerning FBI are dated, either they rely on broken AA spam to get through it, or they are speed-runners just showing off their epeens, which isn't very helpful for new or struggling players. I found this, which still seems relevant: https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1221760/the-ultimate-crusaders-fangbreaker-island-guide-manual-video-walkthrough/p1
Sign In or Register to comment.