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CW changes in mod 13:

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  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    modlesie said:

    I think the damage output of the control wizard, I hope so at least for my On my toons I look at about one million AD's to change the loadout to reflect the changes and to remain competitive in endgame.

    Lol, how can i get serious your posts when you are player who is spending milion ad for respec characters while after winter festiwal you can have it for free in big numbers, how can i be sure that you know anythig about game?^^
    Well, that's not ok. hahaha
    I'll let you know that I played this game for a long time and it was more convenient for me to respec a character at-spot by spending the AD.
    I'm sure that I've spent around 1-2 mil AD because of my laziness to go and download a preview server. Sometimes you just want things instantaneously and have no time to meddle with extra stuff.
    This is why the loadouts are an amazing addition to the game.
    Yes, Simril gave some free respec here and there. Don't forget free cancer, too, with rubberbanding.
    Point is - spending AD on respec is an option or, at least, was an option back when I played. At first it costed around 50-60K, then around 115K as the new mods came and went away.
    However I always had extra token whenever there was a class change. This they give for free, I think, every time they change something with the class.
    And if you're a crazy person like me, you'll change things a lot in order to try something unique and funny. It's basically tinkering.

    So, yeah, if you're lazy, you pay the money. That's how MMOs work everywhere. Never underestimate people's laziness. It is the best possible thing for a quick profit. But then you look back on all the money spent and you're kind of sad... : {

    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • itblsitbls Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 121 Arc User

    Also, I don't understand the drama over this. Guys, CW is in a good spot right now for what we could get from the development. Took couple of years, but finally some progress. Banging the head over it - not good.

    My opinion is that the real issue and THE only problem that needs solving in the coming modules is the elite enemies mitigation of the controlling powers. Somehow, somewhere in the power mechanics of the elite mobs there an integer that messes with the controlling powers because it's interconnected to the damage reduction instead to be a separate power mechanic that deals with Controlling duration separately. This has been a big rock in the shoes for many CWs since MOD6.

    My opinion is that I can't see any logic if someone wants to portray it as intentional since it makes no sense to cripple a class specific role where it needs the control THE most, and that it with the dangerous enemies which are found in elite dungeons.

    This thing needs to be looked upon and worked with since it's the cornerstone, the very spine of what the CONTROL stands in the CONTROL WIZARD class.

    Damage comes and goes, that's not the issue at all. Many ways currently to build amazing dps and many ways currently to figure several specs for the class and that's more than enough than some people have with other classes (like a GWF for instance who seriously lacks any solid 2nd build).

    So you're okay with storm spell doing less dmg for single target now because it crits?(Last time I check single target dmg matter the most)

    Anyways I would had be fine to if they buff the cw base dmg to but they didn't. So I rather cry in the forums then to let cw get swept under the rug with this random unnecessary nerf. I still don't get why people want a control cw meta, oppressive force and icy terrain is all the control I need. I rather them change the name of the wizard then to get more control changes honestly. Right now no one needs control because everyone kills mobs way to fast. The only control fix that I think would be nice to see is arcane singularity pull mobs together(like it use to) to melt them with one single or double aoe encounter but that's about it.
  • khandran#2092 khandran Member Posts: 67 Arc User

    Also, I don't understand the drama over this. Guys, CW is in a good spot right now for what we could get from the development. Took couple of years, but finally some progress. Banging the head over it - not good.

    My opinion is that the real issue and THE only problem that needs solving in the coming modules is the elite enemies mitigation of the controlling powers. Somehow, somewhere in the power mechanics of the elite mobs there an integer that messes with the controlling powers because it's interconnected to the damage reduction instead to be a separate power mechanic that deals with Controlling duration separately. This has been a big rock in the shoes for many CWs since MOD6.

    My opinion is that I can't see any logic if someone wants to portray it as intentional since it makes no sense to cripple a class specific role where it needs the control THE most, and that it with the dangerous enemies which are found in elite dungeons.

    This thing needs to be looked upon and worked with since it's the cornerstone, the very spine of what the CONTROL stands in the CONTROL WIZARD class.

    Damage comes and goes, that's not the issue at all. Many ways currently to build amazing dps and many ways currently to figure several specs for the class and that's more than enough than some people have with other classes (like a GWF for instance who seriously lacks any solid 2nd build).

    Agree 100% on this. Who chose CW class to be a big DPS class? Most I guess chose it because of the word "control". I want dungeons where a CW is a necessary class to complete because without its cc then group will fail (or high probability of failure). At least bring back dungeons and give CW enough control to make them as useful to group as a DC is in TONG. Yes I do want to have a choice of doing good DPS to be able to do solo contents for example or have pure dps build to have choice in dungeon but I don't feel need to be top DPS of all classes.

    BEtween crit on SS and nerf in SS damage - what percent nerf (or boost) dps is it in total?
  • hastati96hastati96 Member Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    Also, I don't understand the drama over this. Guys, CW is in a good spot right now for what we could get from the development. Took couple of years, but finally some progress. Banging the head over it - not good.

    My opinion is that the real issue and THE only problem that needs solving in the coming modules is the elite enemies mitigation of the controlling powers. Somehow, somewhere in the power mechanics of the elite mobs there an integer that messes with the controlling powers because it's interconnected to the damage reduction instead to be a separate power mechanic that deals with Controlling duration separately. This has been a big rock in the shoes for many CWs since MOD6.

    My opinion is that I can't see any logic if someone wants to portray it as intentional since it makes no sense to cripple a class specific role where it needs the control THE most, and that it with the dangerous enemies which are found in elite dungeons.

    This thing needs to be looked upon and worked with since it's the cornerstone, the very spine of what the CONTROL stands in the CONTROL WIZARD class.

    Damage comes and goes, that's not the issue at all. Many ways currently to build amazing dps and many ways currently to figure several specs for the class and that's more than enough than some people have with other classes (like a GWF for instance who seriously lacks any solid 2nd build).

    Most I guess chose it because of the word "control". I want dungeons where a CW is a necessary class to complete because without its cc then group will fail (or high probability of failure).
    Basically M1 - M4 was the meta you descriped. People had to get ATLEAST 2 CWs to beat (old) CN. The adds on the 2nd and 3rd boss were simply hitting too hard so you had to CC them. Back then every bossfight had TONS of adds (frozen heart, karrundax etc. etc.)
    CWs were necessary for endgame content which created an unfair situation for other classes. Sure, back in M1 there were less classes than now but I think you get what I mean.

    You shouldn't force people to get a special class for content (Heal, Tank is a different case). There should be a balancing between all DPS classes so that every class has the "same" chance finding a group and no class is excluded from content.

    I think the devs should have adjusted CW when FBI was released. Like I said above, the CW was designed as a CC class when Neverwinter was released. The CC-immune enemies and no adds in bossfights changed everything. Sadly the dungeon design has changed totally so that we can't do what we were designed for.

    so what is left for our class? DPS or support. Being a controller is no longer an option for us.
    Nero - Palacetamol - Essence of Aggression
  • khandran#2092 khandran Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    hastati96 said:

    Also, I don't understand the drama over this. Guys, CW is in a good spot right now for what we could get from the development. Took couple of years, but finally some progress. Banging the head over it - not good.

    My opinion is that the real issue and THE only problem that needs solving in the coming modules is the elite enemies mitigation of the controlling powers. Somehow, somewhere in the power mechanics of the elite mobs there an integer that messes with the controlling powers because it's interconnected to the damage reduction instead to be a separate power mechanic that deals with Controlling duration separately. This has been a big rock in the shoes for many CWs since MOD6.

    My opinion is that I can't see any logic if someone wants to portray it as intentional since it makes no sense to cripple a class specific role where it needs the control THE most, and that it with the dangerous enemies which are found in elite dungeons.

    This thing needs to be looked upon and worked with since it's the cornerstone, the very spine of what the CONTROL stands in the CONTROL WIZARD class.

    Damage comes and goes, that's not the issue at all. Many ways currently to build amazing dps and many ways currently to figure several specs for the class and that's more than enough than some people have with other classes (like a GWF for instance who seriously lacks any solid 2nd build).

    Most I guess chose it because of the word "control". I want dungeons where a CW is a necessary class to complete because without its cc then group will fail (or high probability of failure).
    You shouldn't force people to get a special class for content (Heal, Tank is a different case).
    You say you consider heals and tank different cases but cc should be exactly the same "different case". CW, HR and TR all have a controller path that could be made useful if devs wanted to makes changes to the trees and most importantly the content of the dungeons... The diversity would be in the options given to classes in the trees they choose... DPS will always be an option. I don't see a problem with adding necessity of cc if more than one class can use it for group's success.
    hastati96 said:



    Basically M1 - M4 was the meta you descriped. People had to get ATLEAST 2 CWs to beat (old) CN. The adds on the 2nd and 3rd boss were simply hitting too hard so you had to CC them. Back then every bossfight had TONS of adds (frozen heart, karrundax etc. etc.)

    Yep thta is what I want back...imagine the potential role of ccCW, ccHR, ccTR....so much nicer than this dps-craze that current dungeons want us to have...
    Post edited by khandran#2092 on
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    itbls said:



    So you're okay with storm spell doing less dmg for single target now because it crits?(Last time I check single target dmg matter the most)

    Anyways I would had be fine to if they buff the cw base dmg to but they didn't. So I rather cry in the forums then to let cw get swept under the rug with this random unnecessary nerf. I still don't get why people want a control cw meta, oppressive force and icy terrain is all the control I need. I rather them change the name of the wizard then to get more control changes honestly. Right now no one needs control because everyone kills mobs way to fast. The only control fix that I think would be nice to see is arcane singularity pull mobs together(like it use to) to melt them with one single or double aoe encounter but that's about it.

    Yes, a critting storm spell is working as it should work. The reason why it got nerfed in the first place was due to Lostmauth set bonus which made it to proc way more often than it's supposed to. Devs thought it's the Storm Spell, but it was Lostmauth set bonus that was faulty from the start. The CW class suffered a lot due to that.

    The reason why it's base damage got nerfed is due to many people playing MoF, so they do not want to see MoF out of the picture.

    Over the time more powerful weapons and ways to build up the damage/crit/arpen/recovery will be introduced and by that the critting storm spell will find a way to be more and more useful. Again, this is not the last time things change. Always expect changes.
    The ability to critically strike offers a way to build a DPS oriented CW, that many want and prefer due to the ways MOD5 opened that door which is a close-range proc powerhouse. For some people this is the only way to play a CW and they'd choose nothing else over this. This makes Vorpal and Dread a solid choice over the time for a build. Prior to this entierty of the CW's damage was brought down to the Fey ench. Do I really want my CW to run along with a bubblegum orb all the time? Nope.

    Before, enemies would kill you in 1-2 shots. The control was mandatory. Dungeons were unforgiving if you didn't know how to play the class. You could beat a dungeon with any class given that you had enough pots. CW had up to four possible choices, making WIS builds too! Now, nobody builds WIS builds.
    Currently it's just - bring a bunch of support classes to the dungeon and hit as hard as you can. Strategy = 0%. "Avoid red circles" or similar.
    I actually remember having to talk to my teammates about how we're going to attack and defeat Valindra and who's going to do what at what particular time. THAT I enjoyed. Now? It's just "let's kill this boss as fast as possible so that we can farm as much as possible".

    Yes, I may be completely crazy to advocate CONTROL in CONTROL WIZARD and yes, it would take a lot of time for the devs to figure that one out, but I sincerely never played the CW for the sake of the DPS alone. In fact, I do not like it. I like the ability to mess with the mobs and unfortunately I can't do that with the elite mobs at all. That's touche for me. So from my perspective I take what I can to play as much as I'd like to with a class I got used to. So, yes, Storm Spell critting is only correct because I can't think of another thing for a Lightning Strike to do other than critically strike. I mean, it's lightning after all?!
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • ravnazrael1ravnazrael1 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    Hi All,
    I did some very basic testing as I am on PS4 and do not have act logs, but I seemed to notice alto

    itbls said:



    So you're okay with storm spell doing less dmg for single target now because it crits?(Last time I check single target dmg matter the most)

    Anyways I would had be fine to if they buff the cw base dmg to but they didn't. So I rather cry in the forums then to let cw get swept under the rug with this random unnecessary nerf. I still don't get why people want a control cw meta, oppressive force and icy terrain is all the control I need. I rather them change the name of the wizard then to get more control changes honestly. Right now no one needs control because everyone kills mobs way to fast. The only control fix that I think would be nice to see is arcane singularity pull mobs together(like it use to) to melt them with one single or double aoe encounter but that's about it.

    Yes, a critting storm spell is working as it should work. The reason why it got nerfed in the first place was due to Lostmauth set bonus which made it to proc way more often than it's supposed to. Devs thought it's the Storm Spell, but it was Lostmauth set bonus that was faulty from the start. The CW class suffered a lot due to that.

    The reason why it's base damage got nerfed is due to many people playing MoF, so they do not want to see MoF out of the picture.

    Over the time more powerful weapons and ways to build up the damage/crit/arpen/recovery will be introduced and by that the critting storm spell will find a way to be more and more useful. Again, this is not the last time things change. Always expect changes.
    The ability to critically strike offers a way to build a DPS oriented CW, that many want and prefer due to the ways MOD5 opened that door which is a close-range proc powerhouse. For some people this is the only way to play a CW and they'd choose nothing else over this. This makes Vorpal and Dread a solid choice over the time for a build. Prior to this entierty of the CW's damage was brought down to the Fey ench. Do I really want my CW to run along with a bubblegum orb all the time? Nope.

    Before, enemies would kill you in 1-2 shots. The control was mandatory. Dungeons were unforgiving if you didn't know how to play the class. You could beat a dungeon with any class given that you had enough pots. CW had up to four possible choices, making WIS builds too! Now, nobody builds WIS builds.
    Currently it's just - bring a bunch of support classes to the dungeon and hit as hard as you can. Strategy = 0%. "Avoid red circles" or similar.
    I actually remember having to talk to my teammates about how we're going to attack and defeat Valindra and who's going to do what at what particular time. THAT I enjoyed. Now? It's just "let's kill this boss as fast as possible so that we can farm as much as possible".

    Yes, I may be completely crazy to advocate CONTROL in CONTROL WIZARD and yes, it would take a lot of time for the devs to figure that one out, but I sincerely never played the CW for the sake of the DPS alone. In fact, I do not like it. I like the ability to mess with the mobs and unfortunately I can't do that with the elite mobs at all. That's touche for me. So from my perspective I take what I can to play as much as I'd like to with a class I got used to. So, yes, Storm Spell critting is only correct because I can't think of another thing for a Lightning Strike to do other than critically strike. I mean, it's lightning after all?!
    I also hate the way feytouch looks.. like little faeries floating round a ball or skull etc. Been considering going with a dread enchantment but not too sure if thats best for me. I play a spellstorm renegade/thaum without spell twisting and with decent recovery. 100% crit chance capped arp and about 10k base recovery (goes to 15k or so with all procced, higher with artificers).
    Vorpal perhaps maybe a good choice as well but not sure, I use aoe for mobs and single target for bosses. Any input? (yes I read sharpedge's writeup on enchants)
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    Have both Dread and Feytouched and hope they won't change them a lot in the future :)

    Fey appears like it's going to be meddled with in the upcoming mods.

    If you're on 12b currently, then start from Pure lightning and maybe Trans lightning to seal the deal. Fey on bosses. Dread is also a nice 3rd option for a SS rene.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    Have both Dread and Feytouched and hope they won't change them a lot in the future :)

    Fey appears like it's going to be meddled with in the upcoming mods.

    If you're on 12b currently, then start from Pure lightning and maybe Trans lightning to seal the deal. Fey on bosses. Dread is also a nice 3rd option for a SS rene.

    Are the enchantment being test in content or just on sparring target to see what is considered BiS?

    I have gone up against some 16K CW players that used Lighting, Fey or Dread and I always seem to edge them out in content with my Flaming enchantment and they are near BiS when compared to my CW that is a work in progress (I have many enchantments that I need to upgrade/swap over to the proper ones as I work toward increasing my IL to 16K).

    I asked previously if anyone tested the Flaming in content to see if it is viable in mod 13 vs. say a Dread or Fey. I would test it myself but I do not own a PC, therefore no testing will be done on my end.

    I have a trans Fey and Dread as well but I just like how my MoF CW looks with his Flaming Enchantment, Nightmare mount and Fire Archon.
  • ejziponkenejziponken Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 887 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    From AMA:

    One of the things we saw requested quite often in our rocktober threads, and on Control Wizard threads in general, was to allow Storm Spell to critically strike (as it did in the past). The problem with this was that Storm Spell would always critically strike if this was enabled. Because of some tweaks, we were able give Storm Spell its own chance to critically strike, which was great, but we did not make any adjustments until later in the development cycle, which is why you’re seeing the damage reduction now.

    This meant that Storm Spell became incredibly powerful on high-end crit builds. Which is okay, but it had the potential to be 25-35% of your total damage, which is incredibly high for a class feature, especially one that was tied to a paragon path. We did not mean for the Storm Spell change to directly compensate for the Weapon Enchantment changes, if CWs are hit especially hard by that then we'll make adjustments in the future.

    The 30% damage nerf that we applied to it was compensation for it being allowed to critically strike. While low-end / fresh 70 builds will see a decrease in effectiveness for Storm Spell, mid-high geared players should see an increase. If you were curious to see what the breakpoints are like, with rank 4 of Storm Spell, a character who has 60% Critical Strike Chance and 75% Critical Severity should see a small increase in damage. A character who has 45% Critical Strike Chance and 100% Critical Severity should see a very similar increase in damage. If you get more Critical Strike Chance, or Critical Severity, from either of these points then the changes to Storm Spell are a buff.

    One thing you mentioned was that the Off-hand bonus now causes it to proc less. This shouldn't be the case (it should be the same), so if you have any other information on that I'd be happy to know!


    The weapon enchantment nerf did hit CW fairly hard, and while we want to compensate them for it, we didn't want Storm Spell to be the sole taker of what that compensation is.

    For the off-hand bonus, I think it's still just a 5% separate chance to proc, but it's possible that something is messed up. I'll take a look when I get back to my desk, but the intent for the off-hand bonus was to keep it the same as it was (power-wise).


    https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/7yydgo/we_are_systems_designers_for_neverwinter_ask_us/
    Post edited by ejziponken on

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • modlesiemodlesie Member Posts: 186 Arc User

    From AMA:

    One of the things we saw requested quite often in our rocktober threads, and on Control Wizard threads in general, was to allow Storm Spell to critically strike (as it did in the past). The problem with this was that Storm Spell would always critically strike if this was enabled. Because of some tweaks, we were able give Storm Spell its own chance to critically strike, which was great, but we did not make any adjustments until later in the development cycle, which is why you’re seeing the damage reduction now.

    This meant that Storm Spell became incredibly powerful on high-end crit builds. Which is okay, but it had the potential to be 25-35% of your total damage, which is incredibly high for a class feature, especially one that was tied to a paragon path. We did not mean for the Storm Spell change to directly compensate for the Weapon Enchantment changes, if CWs are hit especially hard by that then we'll make adjustments in the future.

    The 30% damage nerf that we applied to it was compensation for it being allowed to critically strike. While low-end / fresh 70 builds will see a decrease in effectiveness for Storm Spell, mid-high geared players should see an increase. If you were curious to see what the breakpoints are like, with rank 4 of Storm Spell, a character who has 60% Critical Strike Chance and 75% Critical Severity should see a small increase in damage. A character who has 45% Critical Strike Chance and 100% Critical Severity should see a very similar increase in damage. If you get more Critical Strike Chance, or Critical Severity, from either of these points then the changes to Storm Spell are a buff.

    One thing you mentioned was that the Off-hand bonus now causes it to proc less. This shouldn't be the case (it should be the same), so if you have any other information on that I'd be happy to know!


    The weapon enchantment nerf did hit CW fairly hard, and while we want to compensate them for it, we didn't want Storm Spell to be the sole taker of what that compensation is.

    For the off-hand bonus, I think it's still just a 5% separate chance to proc, but it's possible that something is messed up. I'll take a look when I get back to my desk, but the intent for the off-hand bonus was to keep it the same as it was (power-wise).


    https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/7yydgo/we_are_systems_designers_for_neverwinter_ask_us/
    Soo....basicly...the reason of nerf is that 1 of CW's feats is to high in their tabels...so they feel the need to nerf it but actually not giving almost any compensation in that place....Great. Really great. How long did you think about it and who is responsible for this dubious quality performance?
  • ejziponkenejziponken Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 887 Arc User
    modlesie said:

    From AMA:

    One of the things we saw requested quite often in our rocktober threads, and on Control Wizard threads in general, was to allow Storm Spell to critically strike (as it did in the past). The problem with this was that Storm Spell would always critically strike if this was enabled. Because of some tweaks, we were able give Storm Spell its own chance to critically strike, which was great, but we did not make any adjustments until later in the development cycle, which is why you’re seeing the damage reduction now.

    This meant that Storm Spell became incredibly powerful on high-end crit builds. Which is okay, but it had the potential to be 25-35% of your total damage, which is incredibly high for a class feature, especially one that was tied to a paragon path. We did not mean for the Storm Spell change to directly compensate for the Weapon Enchantment changes, if CWs are hit especially hard by that then we'll make adjustments in the future.

    The 30% damage nerf that we applied to it was compensation for it being allowed to critically strike. While low-end / fresh 70 builds will see a decrease in effectiveness for Storm Spell, mid-high geared players should see an increase. If you were curious to see what the breakpoints are like, with rank 4 of Storm Spell, a character who has 60% Critical Strike Chance and 75% Critical Severity should see a small increase in damage. A character who has 45% Critical Strike Chance and 100% Critical Severity should see a very similar increase in damage. If you get more Critical Strike Chance, or Critical Severity, from either of these points then the changes to Storm Spell are a buff.

    One thing you mentioned was that the Off-hand bonus now causes it to proc less. This shouldn't be the case (it should be the same), so if you have any other information on that I'd be happy to know!


    The weapon enchantment nerf did hit CW fairly hard, and while we want to compensate them for it, we didn't want Storm Spell to be the sole taker of what that compensation is.

    For the off-hand bonus, I think it's still just a 5% separate chance to proc, but it's possible that something is messed up. I'll take a look when I get back to my desk, but the intent for the off-hand bonus was to keep it the same as it was (power-wise).


    https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/7yydgo/we_are_systems_designers_for_neverwinter_ask_us/
    Soo....basicly...the reason of nerf is that 1 of CW's feats is to high in their tabels...so they feel the need to nerf it but actually not giving almost any compensation in that place....Great. Really great. How long did you think about it and who is responsible for this dubious quality performance?
    I have no idea what they are thinking. I agree that SS should not have that much % of total damage, but they need to buff something else or revert the change until they can buff something else... This whole thing is so dumb.

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    One of the bigger things they could do is decrease the enemy control resist. iirc CWs dont get to use the full potential of chilling presence because enemies remain frozen for only like half a second. That's what I wanna see.
  • modlesiemodlesie Member Posts: 186 Arc User

    One of the bigger things they could do is decrease the enemy control resist. iirc CWs dont get to use the full potential of chilling presence because enemies remain frozen for only like half a second. That's what I wanna see.

    Yup, here's proof:

  • mirajanesitrimirajanesitri Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    as long as we can do speed runs as mian dps i think its fine, but that aside i think its sad if we fall behind other classes if ever chose to race dps
  • vordaynvordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User

    From AMA:

    One of the things we saw requested quite often in our rocktober threads, and on Control Wizard threads in general, was to allow Storm Spell to critically strike (as it did in the past). The problem with this was that Storm Spell would always critically strike if this was enabled. Because of some tweaks, we were able give Storm Spell its own chance to critically strike, which was great, but we did not make any adjustments until later in the development cycle, which is why you’re seeing the damage reduction now.

    This meant that Storm Spell became incredibly powerful on high-end crit builds. Which is okay, but it had the potential to be 25-35% of your total damage, which is incredibly high for a class feature, especially one that was tied to a paragon path. We did not mean for the Storm Spell change to directly compensate for the Weapon Enchantment changes, if CWs are hit especially hard by that then we'll make adjustments in the future.

    The 30% damage nerf that we applied to it was compensation for it being allowed to critically strike. While low-end / fresh 70 builds will see a decrease in effectiveness for Storm Spell, mid-high geared players should see an increase. If you were curious to see what the breakpoints are like, with rank 4 of Storm Spell, a character who has 60% Critical Strike Chance and 75% Critical Severity should see a small increase in damage. A character who has 45% Critical Strike Chance and 100% Critical Severity should see a very similar increase in damage. If you get more Critical Strike Chance, or Critical Severity, from either of these points then the changes to Storm Spell are a buff.

    One thing you mentioned was that the Off-hand bonus now causes it to proc less. This shouldn't be the case (it should be the same), so if you have any other information on that I'd be happy to know!


    The weapon enchantment nerf did hit CW fairly hard, and while we want to compensate them for it, we didn't want Storm Spell to be the sole taker of what that compensation is.

    For the off-hand bonus, I think it's still just a 5% separate chance to proc, but it's possible that something is messed up. I'll take a look when I get back to my desk, but the intent for the off-hand bonus was to keep it the same as it was (power-wise).


    https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/7yydgo/we_are_systems_designers_for_neverwinter_ask_us/
    So the SS CW isn't even vying for the top DPS now, yet they continue to decrease our performance?

    Why is their 'balancing' of over-performing features/encounters/feats only targeted at the CW? I can mention a class or two in mind that has enjoyed DPS superiority for over 6 modules now, and nothing seems to be changing for them.

    Despite our testing and proof, they ignore things. How is this @balanced#2849 ?
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • pteriaspterias Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 661 Arc User
    vordayn said:

    So the SS CW isn't even vying for the top DPS now, yet they continue to decrease our performance?

    Why is their 'balancing' of over-performing features/encounters/feats only targeted at the CW? I can mention a class or two in mind that has enjoyed DPS superiority for over 6 modules now, and nothing seems to be changing for them.

    Despite our testing and proof, they ignore things. How is this @balanced#2849 ?

    That's why I'm getting so aggravated by this. At first it looked like they were closing the gap a little bit (hooray!!), but then they suddenly widened it further than it was before and refused to even talk to us about it. Conveniently, BIS is probably coming out pretty even on all this, so they aren't really upset over it. I'm not suggesting a connection, but it does create an issue where the people who most commonly test and do comparisons tend to be the best-geared, and so didn't get slapped in the face by the problem. The lower the IL, the worse the nerf is.

    Dramatically decreased proc rate seems to actually be the root of the problem and the cause of their mistaken assumptions. If proc rates were the same, what they said on the AMA would probably hold true. It's not, and the off-hand SS feature is not the cause.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    if only they would decrease the control resist on trash... cws usually dont get the full benefit of chilling presence, and its annoying af.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    Why did Storm Spell get a 30% reduction in damage. SIMPLE....it now crits.

    If SS hits now for 7,500 and you have 100% crit sev it will only hit for 7,500 right now. With SS being able to crit it now will hit for 15000 vs. 7500. That alone with no other changes would have put CW simply above all other classes in damage without a doubt. The devs lowered the base damage to 70% of its prior value and with a crit hit your damage is still higher than it is on live. The bigger issue was how the off hand bonus worked and how it proc and that got fixed ( I don't use it any ways so it will not really impact my damage all that much and I also did not use a lighting as I felt the day of the CW with a Lighting was coming to a close soon).

    MoF vs SS, MoF damage is weak in comparison due to how little the DoT hit. With the changes the devs have made, MoF is now better when compared to the SS for bosses. The changes makes sense since any other MMO game I have played, typically groups want DoT build on bosses and burst build for adds. We now have builds as a CW.

    They just need to remove the word Control from our class and change it to Elemental Wizard. This would make more sense IMO.
  • pteriaspterias Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 661 Arc User
    Yeah, but the SS proc rate has also dropped 20-30%. That's not including the offhand feature.

    My own testing without the SS offhand feature, average 90% crit chance, and ~130 severity showed around a 10% total decrease in SS damage. The lower the crit%/severity, the worse it will be. So yeah, it IS an overall nerf.
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    Other classes will get their fair share of reworks over the time.

    SW and TR are currently being the top priority.

    No Feature in the game should deal 50% of overall damage by any margin. This was MOD5 CW and it needed to end regardless of how fun it was.

    The Feature Storm spell rewards you for the build that you make and invest into. This is important, but also risky when it becomes the only thing you use at all times. Developers should realize this by now that players will find what's best and try to use it regardless of other possibilities.

    The strongest and most overpowered feature in the game right now is Aura of Courage. It is abnormally strong and does way easier job than Storm Spell did in MOD5. For AoC you needn't build any crit severity or crit chance, just slot it and you're good to go doing damage that scales with everything. 150 swings of AoC on SW in 60-70 seconds with average damage being 35.000. Most of the hits went well over 40-50K at all times. Most of the hits would apply 3-4 times in one sec. This is somewhat broken.

    pic related : https://s13.postimg.org/53gdextt3/aoc.png
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • fightdawalrus#5058 fightdawalrus Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    > @mebengalsfan#9264 said:
    > Why did Storm Spell get a 30% reduction in damage. SIMPLE....it now crits.
    >
    > If SS hits now for 7,500 and you have 100% crit sev it will only hit for 7,500 right now. With SS being able to crit it now will hit for 15000 vs. 7500. That alone with no other changes would have put CW simply above all other classes in damage without a doubt. The devs lowered the base damage to 70% of its prior value and with a crit hit your damage is still higher than it is on live. The bigger issue was how the off hand bonus worked and how it proc and that got fixed ( I don't use it any ways so it will not really impact my damage all that much and I also did not use a lighting as I felt the day of the CW with a Lighting was coming to a close soon).
    >
    > MoF vs SS, MoF damage is weak in comparison due to how little the DoT hit. With the changes the devs have made, MoF is now better when compared to the SS for bosses. The changes makes sense since any other MMO game I have played, typically groups want DoT build on bosses and burst build for adds. We now have builds as a CW.
    >
    > They just need to remove the word Control from our class and change it to Elemental Wizard. This would make more sense IMO.

    If you don't think the CW got nerfed pretty hard you haven't been keeping up to date with all the info or just started the game last week.

    No offence but you saying without the 30% reduction to SS it would have put the CW above all other dps classes is the dumbest thing ive read so far this year. We can't use Lightning, SS procs way less, already average DPS but you think we would have shot to the top? Thats comical.
  • shockerizershockerizer Member Posts: 71 Arc User
    Well after a few hours of playtime, the nerf is in, at least for me.

    I am no where near a built as I should be for my time in the game. I have seen about a 45 percent reduction in damage output so far.

    I need to up my critical strike as I am at 40 percent. Sigh...I miss the lightning from the sky...
  • diotelpdiotelp Member Posts: 115 Arc User
    Selling my Pure Plaguefire because i can't keep up the stacks anymore, rolled a support templock and realised that you can stack it 2 times per second with dreadtheft now...

    The way i see it, if a GWF/GF/HR or whatever can just right click and stack it with at wills, me doing my full aoe rotation should also... nope, those days are gone and it wasn't even needed. The power creep+rework overbuffed the weapon enchants which in turned forced them to nerf the CW weapon proccing, do i agree that steal time/icy needed to be fixed yes, but this isnt a fix it just stops weapon enchants that arent fey/crit related from being any good (mainly for aoe?) and if its plaguefire not even working, my poor MoF.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    > @mebengalsfan#9264 said:

    > Why did Storm Spell get a 30% reduction in damage. SIMPLE....it now crits.

    >

    > If SS hits now for 7,500 and you have 100% crit sev it will only hit for 7,500 right now. With SS being able to crit it now will hit for 15000 vs. 7500. That alone with no other changes would have put CW simply above all other classes in damage without a doubt. The devs lowered the base damage to 70% of its prior value and with a crit hit your damage is still higher than it is on live. The bigger issue was how the off hand bonus worked and how it proc and that got fixed ( I don't use it any ways so it will not really impact my damage all that much and I also did not use a lighting as I felt the day of the CW with a Lighting was coming to a close soon).

    >

    > MoF vs SS, MoF damage is weak in comparison due to how little the DoT hit. With the changes the devs have made, MoF is now better when compared to the SS for bosses. The changes makes sense since any other MMO game I have played, typically groups want DoT build on bosses and burst build for adds. We now have builds as a CW.

    >

    > They just need to remove the word Control from our class and change it to Elemental Wizard. This would make more sense IMO.



    If you don't think the CW got nerfed pretty hard you haven't been keeping up to date with all the info or just started the game last week.



    No offence but you saying without the 30% reduction to SS it would have put the CW above all other dps classes is the dumbest thing ive read so far this year. We can't use Lightning, SS procs way less, already average DPS but you think we would have shot to the top? Thats comical.

    You do realize Storm Spell class feature accounted for a large portion of many CW damage. If the devs did nothing else but give the CW the ability to crit on Storm Spell it would have made the CW the highest DPS class in the game. That is if the devs did nothing to enchantments or the off hand for the CW.

    Since the devs tweaked the Lighting and the offhand bonus for the CW, many CW are now calling the fix a nerf.

    I'm never used the Lighting and I did not use that offhand bonus, so for me and my build the ability to land a critical hit with Storm Spell, even with a 30% damage reduction, will be a boost in my damage. My PoV is I'm getting a damage buff.
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    The reason why people don't think that Cw would be the greatest damage is because there are some other broken classes which, thus far, haven't even been looked upon despite a big cry on the forum. They can unleash some serious burst damage.

    Storm Spell critting is a feature that rewards the player who invests, a lot. Like, really invests a lot. Currently, it's great for players who have big patience.

    For others, not so much.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    Well, after mod 13 went live, my cw suffered about 30-50% overall dmg reduction not having changed anything. Wasn't using lightning before patch, was using fey/dread, still using fey/dread. Wasn't using the offhand bonus for SS, was and am using the offhand bonus for CP. So according to mebengalsfan, I should have noticed a dmg increase, not at all.

    I used to get top paingiver almost always, sometime 2nd if there was a good hr or op-gwf, and do about 100 mil or more dmg in cn and etos. Now, w/ no changes to my build, I do about 45-55 mil dmg and am consistently 3rd spot paingiver, even w/ other toons being 1-2k ilvl lower than my cw.

    My cw is 14.6k and has 97% crit chance when bondings proc, and crit severity w/o dread is 105%.

    I've tried 3 different builds, and they all suffer major damage reduction, only time I get top paingiver any more is in pug skirms.

    I can't tell if this is because other classes have been buffed to the point where my damage is getting washed out in the mix and I don't have a chance to get my damage in, or if they managed to completely break cw as a dps class (thaum feat line is supposed to be about dps).

    edit: I really do feel like cw has taken the place that sw used to be in as a dps class. And when it comes to support from mof/renegade, people would much rather have a gf tact or conq. So again, right were sw used to be :/

  • pedro2908926pedro2908926 Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    RIP Plague Fire... https://imgur.com/a/rRjmk
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    RIP Plague Fire... https://imgur.com/a/rRjmk

    RIP anything that is not a Vorpal, Dread or Fey. This update really forced the CW to forgo any other enchantment. The devs really screwed up with this update. This update is forcing us to go after one of the three listed above and only really one of those make sense and that is the Fey as it provides the best damage increase when compared to Vorpal or Dread.

    If you play a MoF you may want to go for the dread for its debuff now and for those that are a DPS go for the Fey.

    The reason why people don't think that Cw would be the greatest damage is because there are some other broken classes which, thus far, haven't even been looked upon despite a big cry on the forum. They can unleash some serious burst damage.

    Storm Spell critting is a feature that rewards the player who invests, a lot. Like, really invests a lot. Currently, it's great for players who have big patience.

    For others, not so much.

    To play as a DPS in this game you have to invest into your character. You need high critical chance 90%+, 30K base power, and 85% RI. On top of those stats you need to invest into your weapon enchantments. The devs last year provided all classes with more options than the dread or the vorpal but with the changes they are now making, the devs are pigeonholing the CW into 3 possilbe enchantments with the vorpal being the one to avoid as it has pointed out Fey provides better damage and if you play buffer/debuffer get the dread as that is still viable due to the Plague Fire becoming no longer a valid option.

    I like some of the changes to the CW like Storm Spell being able to crit even with its damage reduction and increase damage for Smolder/Rimfire. The biggest thing hurting CW is the changes to enchantment. That is a failure IMO. Many will adjust and those that don't will stick to the lower damaging setup they have, quit or play an alt.

    My CW is not my main but if he was, I would be upset with the changes to the enchantments. Since my CW is my first alt and I know I have others that can benefit from the enchantments I am using, I will simply give it to my other character and save some up some AD and buy a Trans Fey or Dread as I do play MoF debuffer often.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    I know many may not consider this enchantment but as someone who plays as a buffer I sold my plague fire and will be swapping it over to Bronzewood. This enchantment needs the CD removed at Trans for the buff values.

    If the devs did this, I would make the Trans Bronzewood provide the user with a 10% buff damage and provide the group a 5% buff in damage with the damage reduction debuff being reduced to 5% but apply not only for the user but for the group. This would make Bronzewood a good alternative enchantments. I also would not allow the weapon to stack to encourage use of other debuff/buff weapon enchantments.

    Even as is, it is an option to consider for those that play as a CW buffer.
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