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Lost City of Omu Preview Patch Notes: NW.95.20180212a.1

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  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,247 Arc User

    Feedback: CW Changes.

    I would like to see to the following chnages to the CW class:

    Base damage of all powers, with the exception of Storm Spell and Smoulder, increased by 60%. The purpose of this change is to counteract some of the other changes I am proposing. This should however result in a net buff of 20% increased damage.
    Base damage of Storm Spell and Smoulder increased by 36%.
    Chilling Presence reduced to 1/2/3/4% increased damage per chill stack, down from 2/4/6/8%. The purpose of this is to create more diversity between Class Features.
    Blighting Power is fixed and grants 2/4/6% increased damage, rather than 6% damage per rank.
    Eye of the Storm grants 100% increased Critical Severity for 2/4/6/8 seconds once every 20 seconds, rather than Critical Strike chance. The current iteration of this class feature is useless in the meta that now exists within the game.
    Critical Conflagration is fixed to no longer prevent Smoulder from ticking when you use powers that apply chill.
    Evocation is increased from 20% to 30%. The offhand feature remains the same.
    Arcane Presence now also allows your cold powers to generate Arcane Stacks, defaulting to 1 stack gained per power activation.

    I am not sure how I would rework Arcane Power Field, Imprisonment, Storm Fury and Frost Wave, but none of them have any place in the current meta. Maybe if Storm Fury passively attacked any enemies who come within 15' of you once every second? The damage it deals would have to be adjusted for this however.


    A wish list for mod 20? Suggest something they can do with two weeks left before launch instead.. It sounds good tho, but im worried that we gonna be stuck with a weak CW for mod13 and thats very sad. Revert the SS nerf and then work with whatever Sharpedge suggest.
    Contrary to what people seem to believe, they aren't just going to magically do stuff because I say its a good idea. Saying, "they should undo the Storm Spell change" isn't going to make it happen, in fact, I am pretty much 100% certain that it won't. So, if I am going to ask for something, I am going to ask for the changes I actually want for CW and not for a single change to be reverted, even if saying, "I want that change reverted" is the popular thing to ask for.
  • valnoledvalnoled Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    I'd like to share a story about current content, meta, etc
    I am 16k IR CW in MOF paragon.
    You know, there's no way to go up to 17k+ without TONG dungeon. So today I've visited TONG for the very first time in my life... twice - thanks to my friend, no one wanted me there. Feels really discriminating actually. I was suck at DPSing.
    Thoughts and observations.
    The first. You kinda die way too much. From one mob hit. Even with tank and two DCs. That means you never use anything unimportant, that takes a half-second or more to activate. I have a personal request for you, when you will design some new artifacts or anything else with activation like Eye of the Giant has. Please don't... never... never again. That would be unusable. Like anything else with non-instant cast in the hell of the dungeons you create.
    The second. Dependency of DPS on debuff stacks is killing the class. Since CW debuff Chill is considered as CC - it fades away so quickly, that you can't operate without Icy veins. Please make something to that. Either make Chill non-CC stack, or change it to self buff or something.
    Your dungeon designs are vicious circle. You can't get there until you have enough item rating (well you can, but you'd be kinda useless), but you can get it only grinding there in dungeons. Please consider the way of getting seals and absolute enchantment stones through skirmishes.
  • lardesonlardeson Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    Look forget Cw for mod13, pretty sure most will skip this mod, focus on a long term plan and decide what you want to do with the class, i know i have said it and other may have too but the "control" doesn't exist so you may be looking at a real mage/sorcerer which would be the main range dps class, orrr if you want to keep things same way, Just Make the SS path only for dps and the MoF path only for support, which means, more reliable buffs for MoF and u can nerf the damage, no one will complain cos then we know if you are going MoF, u are gnna be something like a second Dc, and if u are doing SS, u'll be dpsing, instead of SS n MoF being abit to dps and buff as it is right now. its a mess
    Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    lardeson said:

    "Cough cough" if anyone still thinks Cw is an issue, Think again. Oh no, not complaining about any class in particular, they are not even broken, No Gf meta, no Op meta, Still no Dc meta at all, its still all fun and balanced, Good job. oh wait, this dungeon is not even live yet.

    Well to be fair, you can technically solo Tong (with the exception of orcus) with enough life scrolls. And practically almost no one else could do that.
    However I do see what you're getting at and I agree. What they're doing to CW is basically the same thing what happened to SW. SWs are finally getting reworked so now they're good, but now CW is suffering? I don't get it - is someone forcing them to make at least one class suffer? Man, I'm completely unaffected by these nerfs and I still think it's HAMSTER.

    You make classes competitive by buffing them, not nerfing them. Not everyone here has the Stockholm syndrome.
  • bauggsbauggs Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    why are they so silent about these nerfs to cw ? i just dont get it.. same thing every year they <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up some class and dont communicate with us..dont listen the players..doesnt matter how many devs they have changed same mistakes every year...seems like i have to take my 4th break from neverwinter...Sad...
  • ambulatesambulates Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    you people realize cw has like relatively been the same since the beginning of the game with minimal nerfs
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    @gromovnipljesak#8234

    No, sw will still be weaker than other damage dealers. Sure, templock will be a decent support but furylock and damnationlocks will still be behind the othet strikers in damage potential and it will continue to be that way as long as their specific issues aren't addressed with an actual rework.

    With that in mind, if I state "smoulder got a rework so now CW is meta dps" wouldn't you point out that's not the case?
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User

    @gromovnipljesak#8234



    No, sw will still be weaker than other damage dealers. Sure, templock will be a decent support but furylock and damnationlocks will still be behind the othet strikers in damage potential and it will continue to be that way as long as their specific issues aren't addressed with an actual rework.



    With that in mind, if I state "smoulder got a rework so now CW is meta dps" wouldn't you point out that's not the case?

    That's what I'm talking about - them as supports. They finally have a viable role now. There are a few decent SW DPS but they're too few and far in between.
    This is literally repeating history. MoFs are decent supports, and so are templocks. Their main DPS path got nerfed, so now we're waiting for MoF Renegade to get even better so everyone can forget about the days where CW was a DPS lol.

    MoF DPS is possible, but smolder isn't what makes it anything decent. Sharpie talked with Nova about it in a video, and explained that SS will be AoE DPS and MoF will be single target DPS, once proccing issues get fixed (which both SWs and CWs have atm, DoTs are funny in this game).

    Anyways all of this doesn't change the fact that this rework is HAMSTER bonkers.
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    @gromovnipljesak#8234

    I see what you mean although you guys, while not on top dps gf level, will still hit like a truck in bosses, unlike the poor warlock.

    Regarding SW, if you meant t9g runs, know that there is a non wai thing going on there with warlocks, some know it and use it so deal damage that they would otherwise not be able to, hopefully it will get patched asap. With legit dps it is painfully clear were SW stands vs other strikers and mod 13 tweaks leave that unchanged.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User

    @gromovnipljesak#8234



    I see what you mean although you guys, while not on top dps gf level, will still hit like a truck in bosses, unlike the poor warlock.



    Regarding SW, if you meant t9g runs, know that there is a non wai thing going on there with warlocks, some know it and use it so deal damage that they would otherwise not be able to, hopefully it will get patched asap. With legit dps it is painfully clear were SW stands vs other strikers and mod 13 tweaks leave that unchanged.

    I know of the existence of an exploit, however don't know what it is. Anyways, SWs and CWs are kinda lucky to have at least something to fall back to. But if say, TRs got nerfed and DPS is the only thing they have, people would genuinely have a reason to quit. It's problematic how the devs currently don't get what we mean with all this spamming and whining about the nerf.
    We don't want to be overpowered, we want to have a class that can actually do its job. The way it's going, CW won't be able to do so.
  • modlesiemodlesie Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    valnoled said:

    ambulates said:

    you people realize cw has like relatively been the same since the beginning of the game with minimal nerfs


    not really, there were several drastic changes, like Lostmauth set and SS crit nerf. That affected CW DPS a lot.
    MOF Smolder never worked right, it quiet recently got AP, only now it is getting Chilling Presence damage bonus, and still does not tick every second with refreshing from crit hit.
    The game evolved and now CC is pretty non-existent, dungeon mobs either immune to CC, or get frozen for fractions of a second, losing all stacks of Chill. And Chill stacks are crucial in CW damage (6 stacks = +48% damage/96% if target is frozen) with a must have Chilling Presence.
    Along with all that - CW is forced to be a melee DD, they need to refresh Chill stacks with Icy Veins or/and Icy Terrain. So basically if CW wants to deal some damage - he must be in a crowd. It worked well I guess, when mobs were controllable, but now it is more like a suicide urge - CW don't have that survivability like GW.
    This this this!
    +1


    Mobs are frozen for maybe 0,5 ssecond- i can't even land Ice knife with full stacks.
  • martelis1981martelis1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    ambulates said:

    you people realize cw has like relatively been the same since the beginning of the game with minimal nerfs

    Are you sure we're playing the same game? the CW has been the only class to be nerfed in every module. For example, the Arcane Singularity was progressively nerfed, first, the number of mobs affected then the control time, the same for other control powers like the Shard of Endless Avalanche.

    The changes to the Storm Spell cause the bug with the Lostmauth Set, the devs fixed the bug but they never put it back the way it was, only there was a reduction from 20 to 30% of dps depending of the build.

    First it was the progressive reduction of CC then dps. Not counting the large list of bugs that affect CW for a long time, such as the fact that the AoE powers don't proc the bonus from the Demogorgon set.


  • martelis1981martelis1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    Well? Storm Spell?

    image
  • fightdawalrus#5058 fightdawalrus Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    Enough is enough, there is plenty of feedback to suggest this is a bad idea. If you devs choose to ignore all of us worried players even with pages of feedback then I guess we know where you stand.

    Make positive changes that make us want to support you and go out of our way to recommend this game or company alike. If its just negative experiences constantly than people will never be interested in another game from you since they have been burned before. Look at a f2p like Warframe, the devs actually listen to the players concerns and feedback which results in a more healthy game where people want to spend cash on the game just to support the company.

    I enjoy Neverwinter and play it almost exclusively but my 16k CW is on the verge of becoming useless. That means all my companions, artifacts, legendary mounts I worked for will become useless as well. If you are going to continue with these nerfs, you should consider making some kind of one time token or something of that nature to unbound their items so they can at least transfer all their items to another character, if they decide to keep playing at all.
  • vordaynvordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User

    Enough is enough, there is plenty of feedback to suggest this is a bad idea. If you devs choose to ignore all of us worried players even with pages of feedback then I guess we know where you stand.



    Make positive changes that make us want to support you and go out of our way to recommend this game or company alike. If its just negative experiences constantly than people will never be interested in another game from you since they have been burned before. Look at a f2p like Warframe, the devs actually listen to the players concerns and feedback which results in a more healthy game where people want to spend cash on the game just to support the company.



    I enjoy Neverwinter and play it almost exclusively but my 16k CW is on the verge of becoming useless. That means all my companions, artifacts, legendary mounts I worked for will become useless as well. If you are going to continue with these nerfs, you should consider making some kind of one time token or something of that nature to unbound their items so they can at least transfer all their items to another character, if they decide to keep playing at all.

    I feel you. I started out playing this game as a DPS CW because I enjoy that playstyle. To be forced into an unnatural role, with practically ineffective control powers, and not filling the dps role as well as other fighter classes is beyond lame.

    There is a going to be a reddit AMA with the System Designers on Feb 20 11AM-12PM PT. It might be a chance to have our questions answered there.
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • fightdawalrus#5058 fightdawalrus Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    I actually tweeted Thomas Foss the Lead Designer and asked him to please look at the 6+ pages of feedback and look into the storm spell nerf and he replied and said they are looking into it. I have the screenshot but don't know how to put it up in this thread.

    I really hope they make things right.
  • c3rb3r3c3rb3r3 Member Posts: 277 Arc User

    I actually tweeted Thomas Foss the Lead Designer and asked him to please look at the 6+ pages of feedback and look into the storm spell nerf and he replied and said they are looking into it. I have the screenshot but don't know how to put it up in this thread.



    I really hope they make things right.

    but hey tweaking numbers takes lot of time ya know..
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,982 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    It does not hurt devs to arbitrarily tweak the SS nerf if you will by half(from 30% to 15%) just like you did with bondings proposal thread nerf "pretending" to read feedback seeminly by the community .. .when you intended only to nerf uptime / effectiveness by half as much all along despite the uproar
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    kalina311 said:

    It does not hurt devs to arbitrarily tweak the SS nerf if you will by half(from 30% to 15%) just like you did with bondings proposal thread nerf "pretending" to read feedback seeminly by the community .. .when you intended only to nerf uptime / effectiveness by half as much all along despite the uproar

    I guess you gotta argue now so they undo the offhand proc chance change. That would make SS very much worthwhile.
  • therealprotextherealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 502 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    That's what I'm talking about - them as supports. They finally have a viable role now. There are a few decent SW DPS but they're too few and far in between.

    I remember when the SW class was introduced. The introduction contained a term that was like this (not literal): "If you want to deal REAL damage, the SW is the class you were looking for!"

    A shame what it has become...
  • unq#3642 unq Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    Actualy current situation is:
    PVP died. Died just about 2 reasons. The first on PVP remained the dominating two classes TR and GF. And the second after cut of HP regeneration and increased damage. When it became possible to kill even the top player just by luck and without having given the chance something to undertake then PVP turned into chaos of mass killing. The "thinking players" were gone! Need to build strategy and to gather a team was gone. The need was gone to improve the character only for PVP because even the beginners who are badly equipped without PVP equip can accidentally kill.
    Further after a nerf of control need to build strategy in group for example who kills and who controls at this time was gone. As result "Thinking players" gone twice. And result was here.

    About PVE. I hope that SW realy will return in PVE with m13 after your changes, but wizards i think are destroyed finaly. in fact wizards in all games is strong DD but not in this))

    ps: not everything is so bad but you really have some problems
    Drider // guild "The Wolves" // (GF, TR, DC) = 25к gear+
  • rafaeldarafaelda Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 661 Arc User
    to be honest that why i dont have a really good Toon, all mines are almost at the same level (between 12 and 13k) because i know that this kind of stuff will happen soon or later...

    My CW is dead in this mod, and my Pure Lightning is going back to my GF tank to build agro... i will change his rings to my HR and let him stay with the rtash stuff till (if) some change comes...

    I like my CW Mirage set soo much that i dont think i will botter with the loss of dps by not having the new set for him, he is useless atm anyway...
  • therealprotextherealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 502 Arc User
    And still no statement from the devs about the CW nerf...
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    There is no cw nerf and fixed some issues storm spell had.
    1: IT wasnt normal storm spell to have so many procs single target when : the player played only single target powers the amount of storm spells was out of control. Good they fixed the offhand bug. Also the offhand hit as rank 4 good one .

    2: Now storm spell critical.
    ON live storm spell cannot critical ( or only can with a bug from offhand but around 9% of the dungeon run).
    Lets put down some numbers and assume the player has 50% combat advantage damage and severity 167%( the player has ca on critical too with severity 117% ).

    base hit live : 200000x1.50(ca non crit) = 300000.
    base hit preview 200000-30%=140000 x2.67%( severity+ca on critical) = 373800.

    or and with base values another example 15% ca 90% severity ( 75% +15% ca on critical).

    200000x1.15= 230000.
    140000 x 1.90=266000.

    or without ca example with base 75% critical severity.
    200000 live .
    140000 x1.75=245000 preview.

    IN all examples even if the base hit got a reduction -30% because storm spell can critical ( where on live cannot ) is a buff for cw damage from this feat and not a nerf.


    Now what about shatter strike-blighting power-control momentum( tooltip errors devs never answer about them) and the rimefire-smolder still stacking ??

    And general issues like macros allowed like bane-exaltation available for pc only for more "easy gameplay in a easy game" like neverwinter.


    Post edited by mamalion1234 on
  • ejziponkenejziponken Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 887 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    From AMA:

    One of the things we saw requested quite often in our rocktober threads, and on Control Wizard threads in general, was to allow Storm Spell to critically strike (as it did in the past). The problem with this was that Storm Spell would always critically strike if this was enabled. Because of some tweaks, we were able give Storm Spell its own chance to critically strike, which was great, but we did not make any adjustments until later in the development cycle, which is why you’re seeing the damage reduction now.

    This meant that Storm Spell became incredibly powerful on high-end crit builds. Which is okay, but it had the potential to be 25-35% of your total damage, which is incredibly high for a class feature, especially one that was tied to a paragon path. We did not mean for the Storm Spell change to directly compensate for the Weapon Enchantment changes, if CWs are hit especially hard by that then we'll make adjustments in the future.

    The 30% damage nerf that we applied to it was compensation for it being allowed to critically strike. While low-end / fresh 70 builds will see a decrease in effectiveness for Storm Spell, mid-high geared players should see an increase. If you were curious to see what the breakpoints are like, with rank 4 of Storm Spell, a character who has 60% Critical Strike Chance and 75% Critical Severity should see a small increase in damage. A character who has 45% Critical Strike Chance and 100% Critical Severity should see a very similar increase in damage. If you get more Critical Strike Chance, or Critical Severity, from either of these points then the changes to Storm Spell are a buff.

    One thing you mentioned was that the Off-hand bonus now causes it to proc less. This shouldn't be the case (it should be the same), so if you have any other information on that I'd be happy to know!


    The weapon enchantment nerf did hit CW fairly hard, and while we want to compensate them for it, we didn't want Storm Spell to be the sole taker of what that compensation is.

    For the off-hand bonus, I think it's still just a 5% separate chance to proc, but it's possible that something is messed up. I'll take a look when I get back to my desk, but the intent for the off-hand bonus was to keep it the same as it was (power-wise).


    https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/7yydgo/we_are_systems_designers_for_neverwinter_ask_us/
    Post edited by ejziponken on

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