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CW changes in mod 13:

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  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User

    The idea behind that specific change I think was modeled on the following logic:

    1) Previously Storm Spell had a base damage of ~1.3.
    2) Post change, Storm Spell has a base damage of 0.9.
    3) Previously, Smoulder had a base damage of 0.375 per tick.
    4) Now, Smoulder has a base damage of 0.5625.

    If you assume Storm Spell procs once every second, that is a base value of 0.9*1.3 = 1.17 per second.
    If you assume Smoulder procs once every second and that Swath of Destruction is slotted, it deals 0.5625*1.6= 0.9 per second.

    This is the same base value (before the storm spell rank bonus is applied) but in addition, there is also a 20% party wide debuff and there is no randomness involved. I think the devs used the following logic to in theory make the 2 paths "equal" however in practise I think the net result of this is just an overall nerf to CW damage, going from mod 12.5-13.


    Firstly, I dislike the changes to Storm Spell. I would not have made it crit. Compared to other class features, it was already good and it was contesting for the role as second class feature used by CW. By making it crit, they are essentially making it a complete no brainer in every single circumstance, it eliminates any choice between class features. I would rather they had increased the base damage of all CW powers then they make Storm Spell crit and then improve some of the other class features, so that CW has some choice. Furthermore, by making Storm Spell crit, it widens the gap in DpS between MoF and SS, essentially pushing 1 paragon quite a bit further ahead of the other. The change of CP working on Smoulder does not compare at all to this.

    That is yours they listened to some of your feedback now master of flame more close to spellstorm mage.
    I do believe the bolded section is what has not happened and was the important part.
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    TBH I never understood the necessity to balance the DPS of the two different paragons of a same class.

    In my honest opinion, and this is purely aesthetics, the MOF should do wonders with Flaming enchantment as well as the plaguefire enchantment. They should be there to compliment the MoF build. For instance, to boost the overall damage by 2-4-6-8-10% whenever the fire is used or to debuff the enemy by 2-4-6-8-10% whenever the plaguefire is used by encounters. And strictly encounters, not features. This increases the necessity to invest in recovery for the sake of more damage and the compensation for being an AOE/ranged class most of the time. That sounds like a class I'd gladly play anytime of a day.

    On another side the Vorpal/Lightning should be used to compliment the Spellstorm mage the most. The Proc galore! It should benefit more from using water-based elements. Unfortunatelly those are strictly connected to healing in this game so that sucks...

    Hard hitting / Healing / Debuffing enchantments should be used by melee classes such as damage reduction, armor reduction, things like that. By classes whose entire build depends upon constant hitting. Fast hitting classes should have a lot of benefit for bloodtheft! That is a very viable build in any RPG I've played. Attack speed + life steal.

    HRs should implement whatever they can. They should be and remain the most versatile/adapting class in the game.

    SWs should benefit the most from vampire type enchantments, bloodtheft. It shouldn't work on the skeletons and undeads at all.

    Clerics/Palis ofc Radiant enchantments.

    But MoF and Flaming enchantment should really be besties. If only there was a way to implement such relation between the weapon enchantments and the classes themselves / paragon paths themselves. Eh...

    I'll keep on dreaming.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    Here is an album that shows screenshots of the damage distributions at various bosses of several tong runs we did on preview. Runs with SS Thaum, SS Oppressor and MoF Thaum at bosses. You can see Smoulder damage is still non existent and SS damage is down to 9% of our damage.
  • ejziponkenejziponken Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 887 Arc User

    Here is an album that shows screenshots of the damage distributions at various bosses of several tong runs we did on preview. Runs with SS Thaum, SS Oppressor and MoF Thaum at bosses. You can see Smoulder damage is still non existent and SS damage is down to 9% of our damage.

    Maybe you should say something to the devs in the patchnotes thread or something. They probably listen to you.

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,363 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    Here is an album that shows screenshots of the damage distributions at various bosses of several tong runs we did on preview. Runs with SS Thaum, SS Oppressor and MoF Thaum at bosses. You can see Smoulder damage is still non existent and SS damage is down to 9% of our damage.

    I see in one of the screenshots 12 hit from rimefire smolder. So the battle lasted 12 to 17 sec?

    About storm spell is normal to drop % when you use shatter strike you cant compare it to live because we dont use on shatter strike on live.

    Also while is a boss fight as storm spell mage to achieve as much storm spells you can would be good to use or coi or terrain( very weird in that test especially with paladin none coi or icy terrain ).

    Post edited by mamalion1234 on
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,363 Arc User
    edited February 2018


    this one is 35 sec fight (note that you wait at middle when lostmauth flies).



    the rimefire smolders procs are 19 in 35 sec fight.

  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User

    Here is an album that shows screenshots of the damage distributions at various bosses of several tong runs we did on preview. Runs with SS Thaum, SS Oppressor and MoF Thaum at bosses. You can see Smoulder damage is still non existent and SS damage is down to 9% of our damage.

    And when using Dread?
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    Here is another album, this time MoF thaum and MoF Oppressor, in both cases using Swath+CP. These are the various boss fights in ToNG.

    What I think is more interesting however was Opp vs Thaum on trash fights, which you can see here.
  • shockerizershockerizer Member Posts: 71 Arc User
    Man, this has got me worried.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,363 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    Here is another album, this time MoF thaum and MoF Oppressor, in both cases using Swath+CP. These are the various boss fights in ToNG.

    What I think is more interesting however was Opp vs Thaum on trash fights, which you can see here.

    How comes mof without smolder?



    And general we see in your new tests rimefire smolder to be over 2% .
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,363 Arc User
    edited February 2018


    Also i have a question about this testing on targets i never saw something like this vs demons how comes this damage?



    a quick test in castle never i cant make my mark of demon slayer deal any damage.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    Here is another album, this time MoF thaum and MoF Oppressor, in both cases using Swath+CP. These are the various boss fights in ToNG.

    What I think is more interesting however was Opp vs Thaum on trash fights, which you can see here.

    How comes mof without smolder?



    And general we see in your new tests rimefire smolder to be over 2% .
    Idk, I was wondering myself. You can see he casts scorching burst 5 times there and yet smoulder was not applied. Either way it was not really intentional and is more likely a result of a bug and not malicious intent on our part. You can see the ability that applies smoulder is used in the combat log, but for some reason its not there.



    Also i have a question about this testing on targets i never saw something like this vs demons how comes this damage?



    a quick test in castle never i cant make my mark of demon slayer deal any damage.

    Here is a thread about an update to ACT that makes the mark damage register. It is in the combat log, the plugin was just out of date and never showed it.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,363 Arc User

    Here is another album, this time MoF thaum and MoF Oppressor, in both cases using Swath+CP. These are the various boss fights in ToNG.

    What I think is more interesting however was Opp vs Thaum on trash fights, which you can see here.

    How comes mof without smolder?



    And general we see in your new tests rimefire smolder to be over 2% .
    Idk, I was wondering myself. You can see he casts scorching burst 5 times there and yet smoulder was not applied. Either way it was not really intentional and is more likely a result of a bug and not malicious intent on our part. You can see the ability that applies smoulder is used in the combat log, but for some reason its not there.



    Also i have a question about this testing on targets i never saw something like this vs demons how comes this damage?



    a quick test in castle never i cant make my mark of demon slayer deal any damage.

    Here is a thread about an update to ACT that makes the mark damage register. It is in the combat log, the plugin was just out of date and never showed it.

    SO the glyphs are 10% of the damage dealt from encounter-attwill-daily power not a flat 10% against demons for this case?
  • d3cepti0n#1453 d3cepti0n Member Posts: 73 Arc User

    Here is another album, this time MoF thaum and MoF Oppressor, in both cases using Swath+CP. These are the various boss fights in ToNG.

    What I think is more interesting however was Opp vs Thaum on trash fights, which you can see here.

    How comes mof without smolder?



    And general we see in your new tests rimefire smolder to be over 2% .
    Idk, I was wondering myself. You can see he casts scorching burst 5 times there and yet smoulder was not applied. Either way it was not really intentional and is more likely a result of a bug and not malicious intent on our part. You can see the ability that applies smoulder is used in the combat log, but for some reason its not there.



    Also i have a question about this testing on targets i never saw something like this vs demons how comes this damage?



    a quick test in castle never i cant make my mark of demon slayer deal any damage.

    Here is a thread about an update to ACT that makes the mark damage register. It is in the combat log, the plugin was just out of date and never showed it.

    SO the glyphs are 10% of the damage dealt from encounter-attwill-daily power not a flat 10% against demons for this case?
    Slayer marks were always wheel-like attacks. 10% of your power damage, mitigated to 7.5% in any relevant content.
    Piece by piece.
  • metalicum1metalicum1 Member Posts: 200 Arc User

    Here is an album that shows screenshots of the damage distributions at various bosses of several tong runs we did on preview. Runs with SS Thaum, SS Oppressor and MoF Thaum at bosses. You can see Smoulder damage is still non existent and SS damage is down to 9% of our damage.

    You have 12 rimfire ticks there. That's a shocker it didn't do much dmg. 12 smolder ticks and 4 Ice Knifes so for every 3 rimfire procs in the test there was 1 Ice Knife daily. Also, you have 13 disintegrates. So you have 13 Disintegrates, 4 Ice Knifes, 11 Chill Strikes... and 12 Rimfire procs, which should proc once per second.
    Well Done
    And in some other "tests" you don't even have smolder despite it being MoF.
    Try to "test" Ice Knife than, go into the fight and don't use it, and then go on forums and post that Ice Knife sucks because it's a low percentage of your dmg. Even if you have encountered a bug, that doesn't explain why you guys don't secure good conditions for such tests first.

    I don't know what you guys are doing there, but just looking at your data it's clear you either don't know what you are doing, don't think about what you're doing, or trying to do something other than present the real state of control wizard.
    Aris Meyde CW MoF Renegade

    [PS4] Alliance - House Stargaryen
  • modlesiemodlesie Member Posts: 185 Arc User

    Here is an album that shows screenshots of the damage distributions at various bosses of several tong runs we did on preview. Runs with SS Thaum, SS Oppressor and MoF Thaum at bosses. You can see Smoulder damage is still non existent and SS damage is down to 9% of our damage.

    You have 12 rimfire ticks there. That's a shocker it didn't do much dmg. 12 smolder ticks and 4 Ice Knifes so for every 3 rimfire procs in the test there was 1 Ice Knife daily. Also, you have 13 disintegrates. So you have 13 Disintegrates, 4 Ice Knifes, 11 Chill Strikes... and 12 Rimfire procs, which should proc once per second.
    Well Done
    And in some other "tests" you don't even have smolder despite it being MoF.
    Try to "test" Ice Knife than, go into the fight and don't use it, and then go on forums and post that Ice Knife sucks because it's a low percentage of your dmg. Even if you have encountered a bug, that doesn't explain why you guys don't secure good conditions for such tests first.

    I don't know what you guys are doing there, but just looking at your data it's clear you either don't know what you are doing, don't think about what you're doing, or trying to do something other than present the real state of control wizard.
    Show us then, instead of talking :)
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    Here is an album that shows screenshots of the damage distributions at various bosses of several tong runs we did on preview. Runs with SS Thaum, SS Oppressor and MoF Thaum at bosses. You can see Smoulder damage is still non existent and SS damage is down to 9% of our damage.

    You have 12 rimfire ticks there. That's a shocker it didn't do much dmg. 12 smolder ticks and 4 Ice Knifes so for every 3 rimfire procs in the test there was 1 Ice Knife daily. Also, you have 13 disintegrates. So you have 13 Disintegrates, 4 Ice Knifes, 11 Chill Strikes... and 12 Rimfire procs, which should proc once per second.
    Well Done
    And in some other "tests" you don't even have smolder despite it being MoF.
    Try to "test" Ice Knife than, go into the fight and don't use it, and then go on forums and post that Ice Knife sucks because it's a low percentage of your dmg. Even if you have encountered a bug, that doesn't explain why you guys don't secure good conditions for such tests first.

    I don't know what you guys are doing there, but just looking at your data it's clear you either don't know what you are doing, don't think about what you're doing, or trying to do something other than present the real state of control wizard.
    And you won't have any other outcome if you try and test smoulder with critical conflagration slotted, since, as was pointed out, critical conflagration causes cold spells to prevent smoulder from proccing. There are also logs without critical conflagration slotted if you bother to look through the thread, which were generated after the issue was pointed out. You can see in those logs it is 6-9% and in the image without smoulder, you can quite clearly see that scorching burst was used, more than once. Furthermore, don't expect to see many smoulder ticks in these logs, when the duration of the boss fights are pretty much all under a minute of actual combat (They were all like 30 seconds of actual fighting but the log starts recording from before fighting starts) and smoulder only ticks once per second. If you run in a slower group, yes, it is a larger portion of your damage as it has more time to tick, but in an end game group it won't have much opportunity. The length of all these runs ranged from 14 minutes to 16 minutes, with the shortest run being 14:03 and the longest being 16:20, with CW as main dps. The boss fight were pretty much all under a minute with most of the damage being dealt in bursts, so you can't expect smoulder to play a major roll regardless.

    Regardless of what happened in that particular image, feel free to discard it, if you wish. I included it because rather than show incomplete data, I thought I may as well include it and not try to hide the fact that something weird happened in that 1 specific boss fight. I could have been selective and left stuff out and you would be none the wiser.

    If you feel these logs are skewed or something, feel free to recommend some other CW come along. I did these runs with the person I feel plays the class best, rather than run on CW myself, since imo @itbls gets more dps out of CW than anyone else I have ran with who plays the class. However, if you are magically expecting Smoulder to beat Storm Spell that isn't going to happen, even on paper in the ideal situation, Smoulder does 30% less damage than Storm Spell assuming an identical proc rate and doesn't benefit from the Soul Sight Crystal, which means in short burst fights it will perform a lot worse. The paragons are however a lot closer than before and I *think* MoF Oppressor will be the go to path for mod 13 as a hybrid dps support.

    Here is another album, this time MoF thaum and MoF Oppressor, in both cases using Swath+CP. These are the various boss fights in ToNG.

    What I think is more interesting however was Opp vs Thaum on trash fights, which you can see here.

    How comes mof without smolder?



    And general we see in your new tests rimefire smolder to be over 2% .
    Idk, I was wondering myself. You can see he casts scorching burst 5 times there and yet smoulder was not applied. Either way it was not really intentional and is more likely a result of a bug and not malicious intent on our part. You can see the ability that applies smoulder is used in the combat log, but for some reason its not there.



    Also i have a question about this testing on targets i never saw something like this vs demons how comes this damage?



    a quick test in castle never i cant make my mark of demon slayer deal any damage.

    Here is a thread about an update to ACT that makes the mark damage register. It is in the combat log, the plugin was just out of date and never showed it.

    SO the glyphs are 10% of the damage dealt from encounter-attwill-daily power not a flat 10% against demons for this case?
    @mamalion1234 they have always worked that way.
    Post edited by thefabricant on
  • theraxin#5169 theraxin Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    I just want to note out that on most time, I like these precise discussions about CW. But in this case, it's really feels that the main importance is to 4 people bash each other in any minimal thing they can argue for and missing the main point. Which is at the moment very hard to find again.

    Because there's a full SW topic on why slow DoT-s are a pain in endgame content when everything else is built on burst, so this does not need proving. Storm Spell being highly superior to smolder in DPS neither. And if you have problem with the 12 ticks in that 1. test, multiply it with 3. Still 1% we talking about, so this part of your damage is doubtly significant.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    REVAMP!

    In other MMO games where bosses are not killed in a few hits, a DoT damage dealer does more damage than burst build on bosses and the burst damage dealer is your add killer. Due to how things stack for damage buffs and how groups run multiple support roles burst damage outshines DoT damage, regardless if it is work as intended or not.

    This game needs quite a bit of fixing, full revamp IMO, before things are balance for all classes and builds.

  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,363 Arc User

    I just want to note out that on most time, I like these precise discussions about CW. But in this case, it's really feels that the main importance is to 4 people bash each other in any minimal thing they can argue for and missing the main point. Which is at the moment very hard to find again.

    Because there's a full SW topic on why slow DoT-s are a pain in endgame content when everything else is built on burst, so this does not need proving. Storm Spell being highly superior to smolder in DPS neither. And if you have problem with the 12 ticks in that 1. test, multiply it with 3. Still 1% we talking about, so this part of your damage is doubtly significant.

    IN 1 Sec creeping death procs many times since you talked about sw and the creeping death is much stronger than smolder which tic 1 to 2 sec incosistent.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    I just want to note out that on most time, I like these precise discussions about CW. But in this case, it's really feels that the main importance is to 4 people bash each other in any minimal thing they can argue for and missing the main point. Which is at the moment very hard to find again.

    Because there's a full SW topic on why slow DoT-s are a pain in endgame content when everything else is built on burst, so this does not need proving. Storm Spell being highly superior to smolder in DPS neither. And if you have problem with the 12 ticks in that 1. test, multiply it with 3. Still 1% we talking about, so this part of your damage is doubtly significant.

    IN 1 Sec creeping death procs many times since you talked about sw and the creeping death is much stronger than smolder which tic 1 to 2 sec incosistent.
    What he was stating that even a SW does not do as much damage as it could do to how DoT works in NW because burst damage > DoT damage, even on bosses.

    If the devs were to level the playing field DoT damage would be the way to kill bosses and burst would be your add killer. This game it is all about the burst damage and if you cannot produce good burst damage you are a bad DPS. It is why MoF is inferior to SS for CW. It is also why Oppressor is going to be the single target king for CW soon, it will have higher burst damage on single targets; making the Thaum path the best way to play for multi targets and Renegade will be left for the MoF buff path.

    I personally like playing my CW as a MoF DPS but soon that will be forgotten.

    Just like the lighting will be an enchantment of the past for us CWs.



  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,363 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    I just want to note out that on most time, I like these precise discussions about CW. But in this case, it's really feels that the main importance is to 4 people bash each other in any minimal thing they can argue for and missing the main point. Which is at the moment very hard to find again.

    Because there's a full SW topic on why slow DoT-s are a pain in endgame content when everything else is built on burst, so this does not need proving. Storm Spell being highly superior to smolder in DPS neither. And if you have problem with the 12 ticks in that 1. test, multiply it with 3. Still 1% we talking about, so this part of your damage is doubtly significant.

    IN 1 Sec creeping death procs many times since you talked about sw and the creeping death is much stronger than smolder which tic 1 to 2 sec incosistent.
    What he was stating that even a SW does not do as much damage as it could do to how DoT works in NW because burst damage > DoT damage, even on bosses.

    If the devs were to level the playing field DoT damage would be the way to kill bosses and burst would be your add killer. This game it is all about the burst damage and if you cannot produce good burst damage you are a bad DPS. It is why MoF is inferior to SS for CW. It is also why Oppressor is going to be the single target king for CW soon, it will have higher burst damage on single targets; making the Thaum path the best way to play for multi targets and Renegade will be left for the MoF buff path.

    I personally like playing my CW as a MoF DPS but soon that will be forgotten.

    Just like the lighting will be an enchantment of the past for us CWs.



    Based on fabricant act i saw shatter to have on same bosses +- vs assailant. Damage wise they looked the same.
    Thaumaturge multitarget with single target capstone? creeping frost dont deal also serious damage aoe.
    I dont think so.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User

    I just want to note out that on most time, I like these precise discussions about CW. But in this case, it's really feels that the main importance is to 4 people bash each other in any minimal thing they can argue for and missing the main point. Which is at the moment very hard to find again.

    Because there's a full SW topic on why slow DoT-s are a pain in endgame content when everything else is built on burst, so this does not need proving. Storm Spell being highly superior to smolder in DPS neither. And if you have problem with the 12 ticks in that 1. test, multiply it with 3. Still 1% we talking about, so this part of your damage is doubtly significant.

    IN 1 Sec creeping death procs many times since you talked about sw and the creeping death is much stronger than smolder which tic 1 to 2 sec incosistent.
    What he was stating that even a SW does not do as much damage as it could do to how DoT works in NW because burst damage > DoT damage, even on bosses.

    If the devs were to level the playing field DoT damage would be the way to kill bosses and burst would be your add killer. This game it is all about the burst damage and if you cannot produce good burst damage you are a bad DPS. It is why MoF is inferior to SS for CW. It is also why Oppressor is going to be the single target king for CW soon, it will have higher burst damage on single targets; making the Thaum path the best way to play for multi targets and Renegade will be left for the MoF buff path.

    I personally like playing my CW as a MoF DPS but soon that will be forgotten.

    Just like the lighting will be an enchantment of the past for us CWs.



    Based on fabricant act i saw shatter to have on same bosses +- vs assailant. Damage wise they looked the same.
    Thaumaturge multitarget with single target capstone? creeping frost dont deal also serious damage aoe.
    I dont think so.
    Agreed. I think maybe SS Oppressor on trash and MoF Oppressor on bosses is more likely.
  • dairyzeusdairyzeus Member Posts: 304 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    I just want to note out that on most time, I like these precise discussions about CW. But in this case, it's really feels that the main importance is to 4 people bash each other in any minimal thing they can argue for and missing the main point. Which is at the moment very hard to find again.

    Because there's a full SW topic on why slow DoT-s are a pain in endgame content when everything else is built on burst, so this does not need proving. Storm Spell being highly superior to smolder in DPS neither. And if you have problem with the 12 ticks in that 1. test, multiply it with 3. Still 1% we talking about, so this part of your damage is doubtly significant.

    IN 1 Sec creeping death procs many times since you talked about sw and the creeping death is much stronger than smolder which tic 1 to 2 sec incosistent.
    What he was stating that even a SW does not do as much damage as it could do to how DoT works in NW because burst damage > DoT damage, even on bosses.

    If the devs were to level the playing field DoT damage would be the way to kill bosses and burst would be your add killer. This game it is all about the burst damage and if you cannot produce good burst damage you are a bad DPS. It is why MoF is inferior to SS for CW. It is also why Oppressor is going to be the single target king for CW soon, it will have higher burst damage on single targets; making the Thaum path the best way to play for multi targets and Renegade will be left for the MoF buff path.

    I personally like playing my CW as a MoF DPS but soon that will be forgotten.

    Just like the lighting will be an enchantment of the past for us CWs.



    Based on fabricant act i saw shatter to have on same bosses +- vs assailant. Damage wise they looked the same.
    Thaumaturge multitarget with single target capstone? creeping frost dont deal also serious damage aoe.
    I dont think so.
    Agreed. I think maybe SS Oppressor on trash and MoF Oppressor on bosses is more likely.
    I'm assuming this talking pure dps build?

    For a full debuff build (CA + SoD) I'd think renegade would win in the damage department over oppressor since there's no damage bonus for freezing enemies. The buffs would be less consistent however.

    Unless I'm undervaluing shatter strike's damage on mobs, which is quite possible since I don't have preview access.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    I just want to note out that on most time, I like these precise discussions about CW. But in this case, it's really feels that the main importance is to 4 people bash each other in any minimal thing they can argue for and missing the main point. Which is at the moment very hard to find again.

    Because there's a full SW topic on why slow DoT-s are a pain in endgame content when everything else is built on burst, so this does not need proving. Storm Spell being highly superior to smolder in DPS neither. And if you have problem with the 12 ticks in that 1. test, multiply it with 3. Still 1% we talking about, so this part of your damage is doubtly significant.

    IN 1 Sec creeping death procs many times since you talked about sw and the creeping death is much stronger than smolder which tic 1 to 2 sec incosistent.
    What he was stating that even a SW does not do as much damage as it could do to how DoT works in NW because burst damage > DoT damage, even on bosses.

    If the devs were to level the playing field DoT damage would be the way to kill bosses and burst would be your add killer. This game it is all about the burst damage and if you cannot produce good burst damage you are a bad DPS. It is why MoF is inferior to SS for CW. It is also why Oppressor is going to be the single target king for CW soon, it will have higher burst damage on single targets; making the Thaum path the best way to play for multi targets and Renegade will be left for the MoF buff path.

    I personally like playing my CW as a MoF DPS but soon that will be forgotten.

    Just like the lighting will be an enchantment of the past for us CWs.



    Based on fabricant act i saw shatter to have on same bosses +- vs assailant. Damage wise they looked the same.
    Thaumaturge multitarget with single target capstone? creeping frost dont deal also serious damage aoe.
    I dont think so.
    Agreed. I think maybe SS Oppressor on trash and MoF Oppressor on bosses is more likely.
    Huh..that is good to know. Would CoA be selected for both builds?

    We all know how feats can impact DPS builds and I wondering what feats were picked.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    I just want to note out that on most time, I like these precise discussions about CW. But in this case, it's really feels that the main importance is to 4 people bash each other in any minimal thing they can argue for and missing the main point. Which is at the moment very hard to find again.

    Because there's a full SW topic on why slow DoT-s are a pain in endgame content when everything else is built on burst, so this does not need proving. Storm Spell being highly superior to smolder in DPS neither. And if you have problem with the 12 ticks in that 1. test, multiply it with 3. Still 1% we talking about, so this part of your damage is doubtly significant.

    IN 1 Sec creeping death procs many times since you talked about sw and the creeping death is much stronger than smolder which tic 1 to 2 sec incosistent.
    What he was stating that even a SW does not do as much damage as it could do to how DoT works in NW because burst damage > DoT damage, even on bosses.

    If the devs were to level the playing field DoT damage would be the way to kill bosses and burst would be your add killer. This game it is all about the burst damage and if you cannot produce good burst damage you are a bad DPS. It is why MoF is inferior to SS for CW. It is also why Oppressor is going to be the single target king for CW soon, it will have higher burst damage on single targets; making the Thaum path the best way to play for multi targets and Renegade will be left for the MoF buff path.

    I personally like playing my CW as a MoF DPS but soon that will be forgotten.

    Just like the lighting will be an enchantment of the past for us CWs.



    Based on fabricant act i saw shatter to have on same bosses +- vs assailant. Damage wise they looked the same.
    Thaumaturge multitarget with single target capstone? creeping frost dont deal also serious damage aoe.
    I dont think so.
    Agreed. I think maybe SS Oppressor on trash and MoF Oppressor on bosses is more likely.
    Huh..that is good to know. Would CoA be selected for both builds?

    We all know how feats can impact DPS builds and I wondering what feats were picked.
    I cannot think of a single CW feat or power that abbreviates to CoA. If you mean abyss of chaos (which is the closest I could get, with the letters swapped) neither spec would take it.

    I am still waiting for someone to volunteer their CW as a better representation than freedom's, since it seems there is much upset about the percentage of his damage being smoulder but it appears like nobody here who plays a mof dps exclusively wants to show us how it "should" be done. The offer above was dead serious, if someone wants to be in the exact same group with the exact same supports on preview, now is your chance.
  • itblsitbls Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 121 Arc User
    @thefabricant
    I can guarantee that Anri will outdps them even with exalt and bane on them.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,363 Arc User
    itbls said:

    @thefabricant
    I can guarantee that Anri will outdps them even with exalt and bane on them.

    who is anri?
  • designedbyrng#4319 designedbyrng Member Posts: 102 Arc User

    itbls said:

    @thefabricant
    I can guarantee that Anri will outdps them even with exalt and bane on them.

    who is anri?
    One of their "supports"
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