Tyrannical Curse Damage gets decreased by damage debuffs on Target

slyef#6396
slyef#6396 Member Posts: 33 Arc User
This bug means that your allies (and even yourself) can reduce your own damage.

TC link is supposed to do 30% of the (post-debuff) damage, but when paired with U. Fey that number goes down to 24%. It's possible that the damage debuff part of the enchant is also applied to it.

This bug is also on live (Which is why I'll move to Dread when dealing with trash)


Test Conditions

- No pets
- No Orcus set (On the preview test, Had it back on as you can see on live)
- Regular Weapon
- Unparalleled Fey
- Done on SH dummies

Link to the album

https://imgur.com/a/5nxAY


EDIT : What I found out is WAY worse --

The damage link gets reduced by damage debuffs on the TC'd Target,
so far tested
-Moderate Feytouched (From an ally)
-Break the Spirit (DC encounter)
-Aura of Despair
-Pillar of Power

Will probably edit/post screens later


Clarification : this is about DAMAGE debuffs, not resistance debuffs
Post edited by slyef#6396 on

Comments

  • jaime4312#3760
    jaime4312#3760 Member Posts: 844 Arc User


    TC link is supposed to do 30% of the (post-debuff) damage, but when paired with U. Fey that number goes down to 24%. It's possible that the damage debuff part of the enchant is also applied to it.

    This bug is also on live (Which is why I'll move to Dread when dealing with trash)


    Test Conditions

    - No pets
    - No Orcus set (On the preview test, Had it back on as you can see on live)
    - Regular Weapon
    - Unparalleled Fey
    - Done on SH dummies

    Link to the album

    https://imgur.com/a/5nxAY

    @balanced#2849
  • gromovnipljesak#8234
    gromovnipljesak#8234 Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    There also seems to be an issue with enchants getting procced but doing 0 damage.
  • slyef#6396
    slyef#6396 Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    Okay I did some further testing, and it DOES seem that what happens is that the damage link is indeed reduced by damage debuffs (not only from self) on target.
  • jaime4312#3760
    jaime4312#3760 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
    > @slyef#6396 said:
    > Okay I did some further testing, and it DOES seem that what happens is that the damage link is indeed reduced by damage debuffs (not only from self) on target.

    @balanced#2849
  • slyef#6396
    slyef#6396 Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    For testing Purpose I use Killing Flames once I use TC.

    The log should do
    Your ability does damage (pre-debuff damage)

    In TC's case (I'll make sure to edit images with the calculations)
    Killing Flames does A (....) to your target.
    Tyrannical Curse does .... (B) to your target.

    Where B/A = 0.3 (There are other factors that can make this change though)-- See first example
    it double-dip on debuffs too


    However It's a very clutch SW power (even in its current state), so if this gets fixed on top of all the fixes/buff, It'll become REALLY good (if mobs don't instantly melt), and probably get nerfed later.

    Post edited by slyef#6396 on
  • slyef#6396
    slyef#6396 Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    The only thing to test is the ratio between the damage you deal and the TC link, doesn't matter how much damage your first hit deals (the roll doesn't matter as well). -- There's no RNG involved.

    I just use KF since it's 'one big hit' and the TC tick from that is easy to spot.
  • slyef#6396
    slyef#6396 Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    *facepalm*


    Bts (not talking about empowered stuff buff here) and Feytouched also have debuffs that decrease the enemy damage by 40% and 20% (at u. rank).

    What I'm showing here, is that these debuffs which are supposed to make your ENEMY deal less damage, also make YOU deal less damage.

    Also penta-post is kinda overkill
  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    That´s what Bugtober talks of, not sure if all this is allready on preview.

    [info] Tyrannical Curse (SW daily) has some beneficial changes. Including bugfixes.

    [fixed] Tyrannical Curse (SW daily) deals less damage to level 73 enemies.

    [fixed] Tyrannical Curse (SW daily) causes an SW to deal less damage when used in single target.
    -it still does in a buffer group compared to WC, since it´s a debuff and no buff

    [fixed] Tyrannical Curse (SW daily) is double mitigated by higher level enemies.

    [fixed] Tyrannical Curse (SW daily) doesn't properly benefit from armor penetration.

    [fixed] Immolation of Spirits (SW daily) doesn't benefit from Warlock's Curse or Tyrannical Curse.

    [info] Soul Scorch (SW encounter) should not have it's curse effect triggered by Tyrannical Curse.


    When I log on preview completey boonless gearless etc. the following happens.
    No weapon enchant: TC damagelink works 30%

    Slotting Trans-Feytouched: The damagelink seems completey broken for AT Wills , only the WE-proc from feytouched is linked with a pittyfull 24.6%.
    Damagelink does not work for Vampiric Embrance somehow, but works with other encounter and it´s 24% from what I can tell.
    But when you multiplie that damagelink x 1.18 you get your 30%, looks like that damagelinks simply does not benefit from you Feybuff (18%).
    The linked damage seems to be calculated prebuff and does not benefit from feybuff.
    24,6% : 30 = 0.82
    slotting an Unparalled Fey it´s like 24 :30 = 0.8 , the damage on the main target is more , the links stays the same. You miss a 1.2 multiplier on that TC link.

    @balanced#2849
    My statement is:
    1. TC's damagelink does not benefit from Fey-buff, it´s calculated prebuff.....maybe other buffs too? Aoe is punisehd by that.
    2. TC damagelink seems to bug out for At wills by slotting Fey Enchant, wich is a big issue ... at least in my setup, zero damagelink, nada
    -> looks like this is an issue for other enchants too? Maybe someone likes to check this, if I am correct, at least flaming enchant does not work with At Wills and TC link too
    3. And TC's damagelink does not work with Vampiric embrance at all using Feyenchant and others

    In the sum Feytouched enchant is a completely bugged weaponenchant, nothing new honestly.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • slyef#6396
    slyef#6396 Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    @schietindebux

    - TC doesn't benefit from buffs (since it scales with your original hit which already benefits from them), so this is intended, though there are some exceptions. (and at times your damage will just go kaboom)

    - TC works bad with Terror too (see @rjc9000 post on enchants), since it has a damage debuff too. (But the essential part is, damage debuffs that are used to reduce the damage your team takes also happen to reduce TC's damage)

    By the way to test this, you don't need to get a naked character, test weapon etc... you just need to remove pets (some of them are part of the aforementionned exception) and get the weapon enchant you want to test. Also on live, don't take lvl 73 enemies.

    If you want test with other stuff, feel free (Feytouched has been fixed to match the tooltip)

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1228140/pve-debuffs-that-reduce-enemys-damage



    Some Enchants procs are still inconsistant with some of class' powers, while some 0 are procs that shouldn't happen, there are legit proc that do 0. It is not that big of an issue because enchants (other than Fey/Vorpal/Dread) are generally bad with the class, and for Lightning the arcs seem to still do damage

    Post edited by slyef#6396 on
  • naoqueroforum
    naoqueroforum Member Posts: 225 Arc User

    @schietindebux

    - TC doesn't benefit from buffs (since it scales with your original hit which already benefits from them), so this is intended, though there are some exceptions. (and at times your damage will just go kaboom)

    - TC works bad with Terror too (see @rjc9000 post on enchants), since it has a damage debuff too. (But the essential part is, damage debuffs that are used to reduce the damage your team takes also happen to reduce TC's damage)

    By the way to test this, you don't need to get a naked character, test weapon etc... you just need to remove pets (some of them are part of the aforementionned exception) and get the weapon enchant you want to test. Also on live, don't take lvl 73 enemies.

    If you want test with other stuff, feel free (Feytouched has been fixed to match the tooltip)

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1228140/pve-debuffs-that-reduce-enemys-damage



    Some Enchants procs are still inconsistant with some of class' powers, while some 0 are procs that shouldn't happen, there are legit proc that do 0. It is not that big of an issue because enchants (other than Fey/Vorpal/Dread) are generally bad with the class, and for Lightning the arcs seem to still do damage

    From @schietindebux post, it seems he understands that it is not supposed to benefit from damage buffs a second time since it is a percentage of the original hit. What he is saying is that the damage it is dealing is not based on the final damage you deal with the fey buff, but the pre fey buffed damage. The fey buff part is just thrown out. 1k damage deals 300 TC proc, unless that 1k damage has been buffed by fey, in which case the pre fey buff damage would have been 833 (U.Fey) and the TC damage 30% of that, so only 250, not 300 as it should.

    And yeah, TC bugs some other ways too, sometimes for more damage. So, no consistency anywhere TC is concerned.

    The part where the devs think that on single targets TC won't be a decrease in damage worries me as well. Did they consider a high debuff group for that scenario? If you are at the 200% effectiveness area (which isn't hard at all to achieve), the extra 25% debuff of TC is nothing compared to regular WC 20% damage buff. So TC is a total damage loss if it overwrites WC. I'm worried because I really believe the devs don't understand that (given similar assumptions from the devs in the past). Would love to have one dev assure me that he understands it is a damage decrease in most cases, even with the increase to 25% debuff, or to show me that I am wrong. @balanced#2849 . Before the debuff changes, it at least had the slight advantage over other debuffs of being an uncapped one, though still not as good as WC 20% buff

    Just make TC a buff. Changing it to 25% debuff isn't much of an upgrade and doesn't make it desirable over WC in single targets. Well, that is if you actually want to make it non detrimental to single target fights as it seemed to be the intention on some of your notes.
  • slyef#6396
    slyef#6396 Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    The bug has been acknowleged by devs \o/.

    As for Fey Im afraid the statement is still wrong (it doesn't match the percentage shown in the tests).

    TC does take into account the fey-buffed damage of the enchant (intended), but the issue is that this damage gets reduced by the debuff part of the enchant (which is intended for enemies not you).

    Lacking a 20% buff (TC would link 25% as you stated) is different from getting debuffed by 20 % (TC actually links 24% with u.feytouched).

    Also about TC being a debuff, that's not an issue IMO, there's no reason to use TC on a T3 boss (and if you use it on single target, i'll just laugh). You could use it to clear Orcus zombies, but meh. And it's awful to clear souls at ras nsi. And for what it should do it's no big deal if you loose a bit of damage on the main target.

    What I'm worried about though is how they'll change this power, But I do agree it's super inconsistent in its current form.
  • naoqueroforum
    naoqueroforum Member Posts: 225 Arc User

    The bug has been acknowleged by devs \o/.

    As for Fey Im afraid the statement is still wrong (it doesn't match the percentage shown in the tests).

    TC does take into account the fey-buffed damage of the enchant (intended), but the issue is that this damage gets reduced by the debuff part of the enchant (which is intended for enemies not you).

    Lacking a 20% buff (TC would link 25% as you stated) is different from getting debuffed by 20 % (TC actually links 24% with u.feytouched).

    Also about TC being a debuff, that's not an issue IMO, there's no reason to use TC on a T3 boss (and if you use it on single target, i'll just laugh). You could use it to clear Orcus zombies, but meh. And it's awful to clear souls at ras nsi. And for what it should do it's no big deal if you loose a bit of damage on the main target.

    What I'm worried about though is how they'll change this power, But I do agree it's super inconsistent in its current form.

    Yeah, I agree it's not good for single targets and I have no objections to that. The problem is that devs are stating that it won't be detrimental to single target damage. That's my concern. If it is detrimental to single targets (as has been for quite a while) that's absolutely fine, but to have the people taking care of the changes stating things which aren't true about some powers should worry us about their understanding of the skills. It happened before when hadar's grasp was changed for example.
  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    @schietindebux

    - TC doesn't benefit from buffs (since it scales with your original hit which already benefits from them), so this is intended, though there are some exceptions. (and at times your damage will just go kaboom)

    Maybe read my post again.
    That feybuff is not transfered towards the TC link.
    I hit that TC´d target with let´s say 1000 damage (buffed by 18% from Trans fey)
    The linked damage should be 30% -> 300... but it is not.
    The damage is 18% less, calculated from the unbuffed damage 820 -> 246
    At least that´s how the numbers look like, why should the Fey-debuff towards a target afflict the incoming damage?

    I think TC is taking into account the "unbuffed" or "undebuffed" damage.
    There obviuosly is an error in the damage calculation for the linked damage, that´s what things look like to me, since buffs and debuffs are not carried towards the linked targets, but I did not test everything, only that Feyenchant.

    There are so many errors in damagecalculation, thinking about SoD that is claculated premitigation in PVP, leading to deadly 100k procs even though you dodged 80% of that incoming damage away.. bad coding I would say.