Throne Thoon Hulks

darthtzarr
darthtzarr Member Posts: 1,003 Arc User
edited December 2017 in PvE Discussion
So, with random queues I was reminded of this issue. Thoon hulks in the throne of the dwarven gods skirmish are meant to shatter the gates or shield by having them dash through yourself into the target. Obviously this mechanic isn't grasped by everyone immediately, which is cool, however, since they are not CC immune, many players believe that the goal it to stun the hulks to prevent the dash. It is an attack after all. There should be no positive feedback or success result for doing this, since it is wrong. Additionally, many companions can auto-lose this skirmish for you, since their CC powers cannot be controlled and will ruin the skirmish for everyone.

My request is that the Thoon Hulks that dash through players should be made CC immune, so that the mechanic is more easily understood as their allies properly execute the mechanics, instead of allowing them to think they saved their allies from impending doom by stunning the hulks.

As an added note, the Thoon Hulks are remarkably squishy for enemies that aren't supposed to be killed. Some players actually have to unequip their lightning enchantments just so they don't kill the hulks while fighting other mobs.

Signature [WIP] - tyvm John

Post edited by darthtzarr on

Comments

  • just1rndmdad#7709
    just1rndmdad#7709 Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    I second this, as a new paladin i did not realize that my templars wrath and burning light were even an issue in regards to the mechanics. I and my many pug groups would have appreciated the above suggestion.
  • fealinchiron#3250
    fealinchiron#3250 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    That seems wise. Or at least add a halt, or to my side command for the companions so we can rein them in when they be causin trouble.
  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,459 Arc User
    Check the comps and those that have stun/root capability should be dismissed during the necessary phase.

    Had a GWF doing his first Throne. Slaughtered the hulks left and right.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • earlgreybeard
    earlgreybeard Member Posts: 394 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    Don't forget ,there are also trolls that love nothing better than intentionally killing these hulks while laughing their heads off at the frustration they are causing

    often by the time you realise they are intentionally doing it it is either too late to bother kicking them or too soon for the match timer that allows them to be kicked

    how about if you or your pet kill a Thoon Hulk in these 2 skirm variants.. insta- death and sent back to the fire with a 90s re-entry timer?

    if you did it by mistake you will learn ( turn pet off temporarily? ).. and if you are trying to do it intentionally the phase will be pretty much over by the time you re-enter.
    Guild Leader Den of the Misfits
  • darthtzarr
    darthtzarr Member Posts: 1,003 Arc User


    often by the time you realise they are intentionally doing it it is either too late to bother kicking them or too soon for the match timer that allows them to be kicked

    When we have to wait 15 minutes to kick someone who is afk or trolling in skirmishes that take less than 15 minutes to complete, it does get a bit annoying.

    Signature [WIP] - tyvm John

  • arazith07
    arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,442 Arc User
    I believe the vote timer for skirmishes is 5 minutes, there have been many times were I can initiate a vote to kick an afker in the 2nd phase.
  • darthtzarr
    darthtzarr Member Posts: 1,003 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    arazith07 said:

    I believe the vote timer for skirmishes is 5 minutes, there have been many times were I can initiate a vote to kick an afker in the 2nd phase.

    The ones I have had to sit through were PoM and IG, which were both 15 minutes. Both of which were at the starting gate.

    EDIT - well actually I think IG was a vote abandon because the afker was in our queue group.

    Signature [WIP] - tyvm John

  • mebengalsfan#9264
    mebengalsfan#9264 Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    So, with random queues I was reminded of this issue. Thoon hulks in the throne of the dwarven gods skirmish are meant to shatter the gates or shield by having them dash through yourself into the target. Obviously this mechanic isn't grasped by everyone immediately, which is cool, however, since they are not CC immune, many players believe that the goal it to stun the hulks to prevent the dash. It is an attack after all. There should be no positive feedback or success result for doing this, since it is wrong. Additionally, many companions can auto-lose this skirmish for you, since their CC powers cannot be controlled and will ruin the skirmish for everyone.

    My request is that the Thoon Hulks that dash through players should be made CC immune, so that the mechanic is more easily understood as their allies properly execute the mechanics, instead of allowing them to think they saved their allies from impending doom by stunning the hulks.

    As an added note, the Thoon Hulks are remarkably squishy for enemies that aren't supposed to be killed. Some players actually have to unequip their lightning enchantments just so they don't kill the hulks while fighting other mobs.

    Throne many CW or a companion can make a gold run bronze quickly if the damage dealer are not producing enough damage to take out the other enemies.
  • earlgreybeard
    earlgreybeard Member Posts: 394 Arc User
    Like a lot of things in this game when these skirms went live the Hulks probably much more resilent to companions and the odd bit off CC but with all these rings and fancy underwear that stun etc. they have become too weak over time. (like some armor ench I can think of)

    the idea for more DR and CC resist on them is probably a good one.
    Guild Leader Den of the Misfits
  • krymkac
    krymkac Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    Err to be fair we are shown a cutscene right before the phase which tells us exactly what to do with hulk. Player's laziness or/and stupidity plus occasional troll can be frustrating sure but that's not enough of a reason to make content easier. Braindead smashers must suffer. If its too much well there is always a premade option.
  • darthtzarr
    darthtzarr Member Posts: 1,003 Arc User
    krymkac said:

    Err to be fair we are shown a cutscene right before the phase which tells us exactly what to do with hulk. Player's laziness or/and stupidity plus occasional troll can be frustrating sure but that's not enough of a reason to make content easier. Braindead smashers must suffer. If its too much well there is always a premade option.

    I'm 100% okay with braindead smashers learning the hard way that they failed. What I am saying is that there is a positive feedback response for players that use stuns. They see an enemy attack, they stun the enemy, the enemy doesn't attack. This is a success in any other content.

    When I first started playing Neverwinter this skirmish had just released and me and my friend were already in the habit of skipping cutscenes. As much as I hate unskippable cutscenes, this might be one that needs at least a short section of unskippable status if it's your first time in the skirmish. Anyways, the first few times we ran it, we couldn't figure out how to dodge or otherwise avoid the hulk dash. We eventually found out we could stun the hulks and assumed this was the correct response. It took quite some time before anyone actually told us the correct way to run the skirmish. If the hulks were CC-Immune, this would be a bit less confusing, since there would be no way to prevent the dash.

    Additionally companions cannot be controlled, and having a companion ruin the skirmish for you is a bit hard to diagnose as a newer player. As a super experienced, overgeared player there is another issue. The issue where if you use any attacks on any mobs in the room, everything in the room dies. Some classes can't even use most of their powers in the general area of the Thoon hulks, since every power they use is a giant AoE CC.

    The skirmish is already on easy mode for most people, but that's not the point of the change. The point of the change would be to make it more understandable, and potentially friendlier to some classes (namely CW and OP).

    Signature [WIP] - tyvm John

  • enicegeo
    enicegeo Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    The companion issue is solved by simply moving far and away from the hulks, preferably towards the Illithilich, so they snap back to you. Might have to go to the edges on left or right if it's still not far enough. It'll then be out of any auto fight range. But you have to keep a look out for when the hulks appear and then move so your companion will follow you in time. This works with range class, not sure if it would work with melee as they would be positioned closer to the hulks approach.
  • fealinchiron#3250
    fealinchiron#3250 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    thats been my solution really, dash away and it follow you and then i longstride to a squid who i should be interrupting
  • teflons7
    teflons7 Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    greywynd said:

    Check the comps and those that have stun/root capability should be dismissed during the necessary phase.

    Had a GWF doing his first Throne. Slaughtered the hulks left and right.

    That shouldn't be the case, though. The devs being ok with whole groups of companions having a detrimental effect on the activity is ridiculous in my opinion. Especially since you have no control over what your companion actually does. I know that certain companions are definitely better than others in many different situations, but going in the complete opposite direction is just stupid. You can still fail if you kill them and/or have bad aim and, as they say, "2 out of 3 ain't bad."

    I'd be willing to bet that Earlgreybeard is right, that the hulks were probably more resilient to such attacks and as players and comps have gotten more powerful it seems to have backfired. I'm voting for CC immunity all the way here.
    Evolvent

    Tre'Huggar - 70 HR
    Beefthor Battlebeard - 70 GF
    Beefer Sutherland - 70 CW
  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,459 Arc User
    krymkac said:

    Err to be fair we are shown a cutscene right before the phase which tells us exactly what to do with hulk. Player's laziness or/and stupidity plus occasional troll can be frustrating sure but that's not enough of a reason to make content easier. Braindead smashers must suffer. If its too much well there is always a premade option.

    Cutscenes are all well and good if people, like, actually watch them and pay attention to what they're showing.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • darthtzarr
    darthtzarr Member Posts: 1,003 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    krymkac said:

    Err to be fair we are shown a cutscene right before the phase which tells us exactly what to do with hulk. Player's laziness or/and stupidity plus occasional troll can be frustrating sure but that's not enough of a reason to make content easier. Braindead smashers must suffer. If its too much well there is always a premade option.

    Cutscenes are all well and good if people, like, actually watch them and pay attention to what they're showing.
    My companion didn't watch the cutscene apparently.

    Signature [WIP] - tyvm John

  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,459 Arc User
    I did specify "people". That auto-excludes NPCs of any flavor.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • darthtzarr
    darthtzarr Member Posts: 1,003 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    I did specify "people". That auto-excludes NPCs of any flavor.

    I think you may have missed that it was simply a joke inspired by your comment. Obviously it wasn't a serious comment. I know full well that nobody watches the cutscene, since I don't think I have ever actually seen that one.

    Signature [WIP] - tyvm John

  • clericalist
    clericalist Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 595 Arc User
    I take the opposite view to what others say here - what this game needs is more content like this. Clearly Cryptic will never solve the power creep issue, so the next best thing is to create challenges that means that killing things too fast or not understanding how things work means you fail (because most don't tend to bother if everything dies so fast because of power creep).

    Regarding the CC specifically, what would be great is to create content that forces players to use CC on certain enemies, like on the bone golems, and try to avoid it on things like the thoon hulks, making for more challenging game play. Completely removing CC is just rewarding more DPS and making CC yet another game feature that is useless (along with healing, stealth, threat).
  • darthtzarr
    darthtzarr Member Posts: 1,003 Arc User

    I take the opposite view to what others say here - what this game needs is more content like this. Clearly Cryptic will never solve the power creep issue, so the next best thing is to create challenges that means that killing things too fast or not understanding how things work means you fail (because most don't tend to bother if everything dies so fast because of power creep).

    Regarding the CC specifically, what would be great is to create content that forces players to use CC on certain enemies, like on the bone golems, and try to avoid it on things like the thoon hulks, making for more challenging game play. Completely removing CC is just rewarding more DPS and making CC yet another game feature that is useless (along with healing, stealth, threat).

    They should at least be immune to companion CC. At the very least.

    Signature [WIP] - tyvm John