Assuming that the changes made to FBI and MSP chests worked, it should be the case that all of the 'Epic' dungeons (not just level 70 but also MC) will have guaranteed salvage, assuming you have a key for at least one of the chests.
If you don't have a key, KR and ESOT would still be guaranteed salvage with only a chance at boss drops in ths others.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,373Arc User
I like the Random Skirmish very much. But honestly the 12+ Dungeon for 7900 ad really is kind of dumb; like no skill or challenge even the slightest for any end game player.
They need to make Random 12+ Dungeon a 2000-2900 AD reward, for mostly new players.
Add Random (Endgame) Dungeon to be 7500 Dungeon's exclusively for the 7900 ad reward with chance of decent drops if a key is used.
Make Random Epic Dungeon's equal to / higher than 8400 at the least.
I just don't like having to do mostly 7 Cloak Tower dungeon's across my various toons to earn 7900 AD. It's just a silly way to waste an hour doing something which gives no reward's or even earns end game currency toward's campaign's...
I am not a kid and I don't need to be punished if I want to play the game the way I enjoy it. Now if I want to run epics I am literally forced to give up on AD reward and only go for salvage because if I am time pressed often and can't waste an hour in a dungeon. I have to afk often due to real life circumstances. Yes I can RQ with Guild / Alliance mates. But yet again, I can't waste too long in a dungeon. So I am forced to mess up 4 other people's game or just avoid RQ epics.
Then the whole fail thing of high geared lvl 70's still being forced to run leveling dungeons to get their bonus AD from there is also something they should have fixed ages ago. Everyone knows it's bullcrap.
Epic dungeons and skirmishes should have had a tier grouping, so you could RQ for different tiers. Same for skirmishes. But it's too much work to make the game fun to play and instead of making older content worthwhile playing still they come up with this idea just so their old failures still get played instead of ignored due to the fact they are as boring as hell in it's simplicity. Divide epics into tier groups, same for leveling dungeons, the higher the tier group the better the bonus AD so if you want to hit that sweet spot of bonus AD you have to sign up for the harder stuff. If you want the easier stuff you also take the lesser AD bonus. But no AD bonus? Really? Which Chimp rolled it's behind over a keyboard and came up with that idea?
If you want people to play content, don't give em an "do it or else no desert' kinda nonsense but make the content more attractive.
5
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
edited November 2017
random queue are firing faster for random epic dungeons if you are a tank or a healer, otherwise if ur a dps class, it takes too long, in private queue sw temptation +tank and 3dps we can survive t1 and t2 dungeons, idk about fbi/msp/tong, this random queue had so little data/info about classes builds/roles, the random queue bonus for healer role only is given if ur class is a dc or devotion pally, but not if you r1 on healer at the end of the dungeon xD, really dissapointing.
I remember when you had to run Regular Dread Vault for your Daily AD bonus from Rhix and thats all you got. Most people didn't do that either.
I don't mind random Skirmishes, I just wish Shores and Kessels were actually skirmishes again >_>
Random epic dungeon is a waste of time because anyone who is geared well enough to run it without sweating bullets at getting MSP or FBI random would be better served by just farming TONG instead.
There is no reason to do random epics unless you're really bored. T9G interests me because i can sell UES.. and I'm a DC so I'm never that bored anymore.
Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
I wanted to quit the game tonight. I was running as fast as I could, despite the two Speed Runners leaving me the monsters to deal with as the dashed toward the end of the dungeon. I died several times as I struggled to deal with the monsters they left for me. I sent both a message and spoke out loud that if they wanted this to go as quickly as possible they needed to not leave me to deal with everything. They just went to the end and then the real fun started. The comments started. I was too slow. Why was I in their dungeon. I didn't belong it the dungeon. I didn't need the AD, bu tthey needed to get moving beause they had things to do and I was holding them up. Keep in mind this was me in a leveling dungeon rated for my level.
Funny thing is, I am not really angry with them, disappointed yes, but not angry. What I am angry about is how did the Devs not see this was going to become the norm when they first began to plan the RQs. And how is it they still will not admit the RQ, as structured now is a mistake, and not good for the game.
If the amount of AD you received scaled with the length and difficulty of the dungeon then some of the speed folks would be drawn to the Epic dungeons for the larger payout. It just seems that would have been a better way to draw folks into underused content.
I wanted to quit the game tonight. I was running as fast as I could, despite the two Speed Runners leaving me the monsters to deal with as the dashed toward the end of the dungeon. I died several times as I struggled to deal with the monsters they left for me. I sent both a message and spoke out loud that if they wanted this to go as quickly as possible they needed to not leave me to deal with everything. They just went to the end and then the real fun started. The comments started. I was too slow. Why was I in their dungeon. I didn't belong it the dungeon. I didn't need the AD, bu tthey needed to get moving beause they had things to do and I was holding them up. Keep in mind this was me in a leveling dungeon rated for my level.
Funny thing is, I am not really angry with them, disappointed yes, but not angry. What I am angry about is how did the Devs not see this was going to become the norm when they first began to plan the RQs. And how is it they still will not admit the RQ, as structured now is a mistake, and not good for the game.
If the amount of AD you received scaled with the length and difficulty of the dungeon then some of the speed folks would be drawn to the Epic dungeons for the larger payout. It just seems that would have been a better way to draw folks into underused content.
It shouldn't reall matter whether they saw the problem coming, as it was pointed out that this would be the case, many, many, many times on the preview shard thread before it went live. The only people who benefit from this system over any other are people running sub 11K alts, which probably includes the muppets you encountered.
But, because so many people only care about themselves, it seems that greed and selfishness are now the prefered model, since nothing was even considered to overcome this problem.
As long as FBI and MSP pop faster, they don't really care. They will offer platitudes of sincere concern, and will "listen" and "take on board" and possibly even throw in quick fixes for issues that do not involve moving FBI and MSP out of Epic Queues, (which would see 8.4K+ characters able to enter ERQ and taking many away from leveling dungeons) but the closest they come to even aknowledging the problem of FBI and MSP is blaming the fact that they can't move up because Heroes Accord is only for the top gateway. Without explaining why that has to be the case considering how much grief would be avoided by moving FBI and MSP up a tier.
What I am angry about is how did the Devs not see this was going to become the norm when they first began to plan the RQs. And how is it they still will not admit the RQ, as structured now is a mistake, and not good for the game.
There is no way they didn't see this coming as they were warned by the community that this would be the outcome.
The fact of the matter is that they do not care what your experience is. What they care about is making the queues pop faster because that is a quantifiable result they can chart for someone.
The fact that one of them even had the audacity to say that "We believe the older players will step up and help the newer guys and build a better community" (i'm paraphrasing) just shows the level of arrogance that went into the design of the system.
Here's a fact, when your own community tell you that people will not help lower level players you might want to listen. The people stating this are the ones playing the game regularly. They know the community far better than the devs ever will. And this isn't even a neverwinter exclusive issue. This is a gaming issue.
When you get people on a tight timeline they are going to try to speed through.
When you put BiS level players into runs with lowbies, they are going to feel slowed down even if they want to help. The first 5-10 times maybe they say "I don't mind going slower" but on run number 11 it's going to be more like "I cant believe this is what i've spent all my time doing, lets hurry up here".
Sure, you're going to get some helpful players. But for the most part, you're not. You're going to get people that want to get the AD and move on.
All issues that would have been minimized by removing FBI and MSP from the queue they don't belong in.
All issues that would have been minimized by removing FBI and MSP from the queue they don't belong in.
And they seem unwilling to do that because of some arbitrary internal mindset that they want to hold to rather than admit they need to make this change.
Like I said in another thread, it would be a huge improvement if FBI and mSP were just taken out of the ERQ and left out of all RQs like Folly is. I think they can do even better than that, but I'll take what I can get.
Like I said in another thread, it would be a huge improvement if FBI and mSP were just taken out of the ERQ and left out of all RQs like Folly is. I think they can do even better than that, but I'll take what I can get.
And this is the worst part of it. They could do better but they stubbornly refuse to even bend on what is a logical fix to many problems with RQ. We're basically saying "hey, even though a lot of us think the RQ system was just poorly designed and has a shoddy implementation, we'll settle for removing MSP & FBI from REpicQ as a solution that would help us swallow using the system."
But there's some stubborn refusal to see logic when it's being plastered about your face repeatedly. This just reeks of someone with an attitude of "I'm the expert and you guys will do it this way because I know best and you're just players".
2
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited November 2017
Well, they are lucky there is a real lack of PvE-focused, casual/solo-friendly, F2P, fantasy-themed RPGs right now - otherwise I am sure many players would have left for something else.
As I have said before - I am feel annoyed and demotivated. the RQs annoy several large groups of players and basically reward undesirable behavior. There are so many things they could have done to accomplish their stated goals without introducing this pile of smelly HAMSTER, but all our suggestions were ignored.
Add to that the abysmal drop rate for the UES, and that fact that I will need to grind ToNG for 2500 hours to get back to BiS status, and yea...no wonder my enjoyment has dropped.
Is anyone surprised I am not buying Zen this time around? No, I'm not calling for a general boycott - but for me, the game is a way to have fun, and if the developers make decisions that take the fun away, the game will not get my money - as simple as that.
I now run this workaround: do the skirmish, levelling dungeon and then join the ERQ and so far [touch wood] its been something we can complete. I did die in VT when the boss was at half hit points, but the last two toons alive saw it through. if I get FBI or MSP then I will just offer to leave so no one else takes the hit.
SO I get some RAD and then its a gamble on the last bit of ERQ
UPDATE: last two Epic Random Dungeons have been FBI.
First time we were 3 c13kiL and 2 c11.5iL we failed epickkly with the first MOB group..
We tried a handful of times and I was almost interested in trying new tactics rather than CHARGE IN AND TRY AND DPS EVERYTHING but I realised that through the typed party chat system that wasnt going to work. There was a player who seemed to know what to do but otherwise it was a sad experience all round.
Second time I just lolled at the iL while the rest of the party swore a bit so I took the hit and left. 1 c14.5kiL, 1 c13k iL and 3 c11.5iL.
I get master of the hunt if my team has plenty of DPS, PoM if it doesn't, ToDG randomly.
I love Master of the Hunt. It's the fastest one to run now and over in just a few minutes. Starting to HATE Illusionist Gambit, esp. when the leavers get out voted 3/2 to stay longer.
0
forumnamesuxsMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 490Arc User
Ok, where to begin. Imagine this: you go to a restaurant, it looks nice and has a nice atmosphere. The waiter show you to your seat, and hands you a menu. When you open it up, you see that most of the items are marked in red, so you ask what that is about, and the waiter replies: "Oh, those are all the dishes you can't have yet. You can only have fish the first 40 times to are here."
Please consider taking msp and fbi out of the epic queue.
Comments
We are on the same page now though.
If you don't have a key, KR and ESOT would still be guaranteed salvage with only a chance at boss drops in ths others.
They need to make Random 12+ Dungeon a 2000-2900 AD reward, for mostly new players.
Add Random (Endgame) Dungeon to be 7500 Dungeon's exclusively for the 7900 ad reward with chance of decent drops if a key is used.
Make Random Epic Dungeon's equal to / higher than 8400 at the least.
I just don't like having to do mostly 7 Cloak Tower dungeon's across my various toons to earn 7900 AD. It's just a silly way to waste an hour doing something which gives no reward's or even earns end game currency toward's campaign's...
I am not a kid and I don't need to be punished if I want to play the game the way I enjoy it.
Now if I want to run epics I am literally forced to give up on AD reward and only go for salvage because if I am time pressed often and can't waste an hour in a dungeon. I have to afk often due to real life circumstances.
Yes I can RQ with Guild / Alliance mates.
But yet again, I can't waste too long in a dungeon. So I am forced to mess up 4 other people's game or just avoid RQ epics.
Then the whole fail thing of high geared lvl 70's still being forced to run leveling dungeons to get their bonus AD from there is also something they should have fixed ages ago.
Everyone knows it's bullcrap.
Epic dungeons and skirmishes should have had a tier grouping, so you could RQ for different tiers. Same for skirmishes.
But it's too much work to make the game fun to play and instead of making older content worthwhile playing still they come up with this idea just so their old failures still get played instead of ignored due to the fact they are as boring as hell in it's simplicity.
Divide epics into tier groups, same for leveling dungeons, the higher the tier group the better the bonus AD so if you want to hit that sweet spot of bonus AD you have to sign up for the harder stuff. If you want the easier stuff you also take the lesser AD bonus.
But no AD bonus? Really? Which Chimp rolled it's behind over a keyboard and came up with that idea?
If you want people to play content, don't give em an "do it or else no desert' kinda nonsense but make the content more attractive.
I don't mind random Skirmishes, I just wish Shores and Kessels were actually skirmishes again >_>
Random epic dungeon is a waste of time because anyone who is geared well enough to run it without sweating bullets at getting MSP or FBI random would be better served by just farming TONG instead.
There is no reason to do random epics unless you're really bored. T9G interests me because i can sell UES.. and I'm a DC so I'm never that bored anymore.
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.
Funny thing is, I am not really angry with them, disappointed yes, but not angry. What I am angry about is how did the Devs not see this was going to become the norm when they first began to plan the RQs. And how is it they still will not admit the RQ, as structured now is a mistake, and not good for the game.
If the amount of AD you received scaled with the length and difficulty of the dungeon then some of the speed folks would be drawn to the Epic dungeons for the larger payout. It just seems that would have been a better way to draw folks into underused content.
But, because so many people only care about themselves, it seems that greed and selfishness are now the prefered model, since nothing was even considered to overcome this problem.
As long as FBI and MSP pop faster, they don't really care. They will offer platitudes of sincere concern, and will "listen" and "take on board" and possibly even throw in quick fixes for issues that do not involve moving FBI and MSP out of Epic Queues, (which would see 8.4K+ characters able to enter ERQ and taking many away from leveling dungeons) but the closest they come to even aknowledging the problem of FBI and MSP is blaming the fact that they can't move up because Heroes Accord is only for the top gateway. Without explaining why that has to be the case considering how much grief would be avoided by moving FBI and MSP up a tier.
The fact of the matter is that they do not care what your experience is. What they care about is making the queues pop faster because that is a quantifiable result they can chart for someone.
The fact that one of them even had the audacity to say that "We believe the older players will step up and help the newer guys and build a better community" (i'm paraphrasing) just shows the level of arrogance that went into the design of the system.
Here's a fact, when your own community tell you that people will not help lower level players you might want to listen. The people stating this are the ones playing the game regularly. They know the community far better than the devs ever will. And this isn't even a neverwinter exclusive issue. This is a gaming issue.
When you get people on a tight timeline they are going to try to speed through.
When you put BiS level players into runs with lowbies, they are going to feel slowed down even if they want to help. The first 5-10 times maybe they say "I don't mind going slower" but on run number 11 it's going to be more like "I cant believe this is what i've spent all my time doing, lets hurry up here".
Sure, you're going to get some helpful players. But for the most part, you're not. You're going to get people that want to get the AD and move on.
All issues that would have been minimized by removing FBI and MSP from the queue they don't belong in.
But there's some stubborn refusal to see logic when it's being plastered about your face repeatedly. This just reeks of someone with an attitude of "I'm the expert and you guys will do it this way because I know best and you're just players".
As I have said before - I am feel annoyed and demotivated. the RQs annoy several large groups of players and basically reward undesirable behavior. There are so many things they could have done to accomplish their stated goals without introducing this pile of smelly HAMSTER, but all our suggestions were ignored.
Add to that the abysmal drop rate for the UES, and that fact that I will need to grind ToNG for 2500 hours to get back to BiS status, and yea...no wonder my enjoyment has dropped.
Is anyone surprised I am not buying Zen this time around? No, I'm not calling for a general boycott - but for me, the game is a way to have fun, and if the developers make decisions that take the fun away, the game will not get my money - as simple as that.
SO I get some RAD and then its a gamble on the last bit of ERQ
First time we were 3 c13kiL and 2 c11.5iL we failed epickkly with the first MOB group..
We tried a handful of times and I was almost interested in trying new tactics rather than CHARGE IN AND TRY AND DPS EVERYTHING but I realised that through the typed party chat system that wasnt going to work. There was a player who seemed to know what to do but otherwise it was a sad experience all round.
Second time I just lolled at the iL while the rest of the party swore a bit so I took the hit and left. 1 c14.5kiL, 1 c13k iL and 3 c11.5iL.
FBI, Master of the Hunt 80% of the time
Would be better if it actually was random
Imagine this: you go to a restaurant, it looks nice and has a nice atmosphere. The waiter show you to your seat, and hands you a menu.
When you open it up, you see that most of the items are marked in red, so you ask what that is about, and the waiter replies:
"Oh, those are all the dishes you can't have yet. You can only have fish the first 40 times to are here."
Please consider taking msp and fbi out of the epic queue.