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Does anyone really like the Random Queues?

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  • rainer#8575 rainer Member Posts: 278 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    I know on the forums typically people who have a negative feeling supply feedback. Here some feedback from a player (with limited playtime) who is a bit more positive.

    Before I actually never did all the RAD runs (2x leveling eTos/CT) on all my playtoons, because 2 runs for 8 toons is a lot... And tbh I got sick of running the same dungeons over and over and over...... Now I have to run 8 dungeons - yes, some of them take twice as long but, I only need to run them once (so playtime on average has gone done). Other than that.. I get protectors seals from leveling dungeons! Simply simply lovely.
    On my one main (15k HR) I run a leveling dungeon, a skirm and an epic dungeon per day.. and that makes me already reach my RAD cap and give me a crazy amount of pseals (I think about 250-300 total BONUS apart from the pseals in the dungeons themselves). So for 8 toons, I'm done in about 1.5 hours and I have a crapton of pseals and about 144k AD.

    Also, about the abandoning, I haven't ever seen someone abandon the instance without even trying. Yes I got FBI one time, and we failed at the dragon turtle. We tried a couple of times but the tank wasn't that impressive :-) Can happen... I ended up kicking someone who wanted to leave so they didn't end up with a penalty and we abandoned ship.

    Overall - I'm fine with the change up until now. My 2 cts.
    Post edited by rainer#8575 on
  • ilmenirailmenira Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 269 Arc User

    ilmenira said:

    yes me! (i mean i like random dungeons queue) :)
    it gives my tr shorter queuing time and my dc more surprises!
    i admit i haven't been sent to FBI or ESP so far.

    improvement could be to let fresh 70ies do something beyond random levelling queue and maybe add FBI and ESP to heroes accord instead of normal dungeon random queue.

    Its a 30+ minute wait to pug the epic random q. This is shorter?
    maybe i was lucky so far... i waited something like 3-10 mn with my TR...
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User

    I know on the forums typically people who have a negative feeling supply feedback. Here some feedback from a player (with limited playtime) who is a bit more positive.

    Before I actually never did all the RAD runs (2x leveling eTos/CT) on all my playtoons, because 2 runs for 8 toons is a lot... And tbh I got sick of running the same dungeons over and over and over...... Now I have to run 8 dungeons - yes, some of them take twice as long but, I only need to run them once (so playtime on average has gone done). Other than that.. I get protectors seals from leveling dungeons! Simply simply lovely.
    On my one main (15k HR) I run a leveling dungeon, a skirm and an epic dungeon per day.. and that makes me already reach my RAD cap and give me a crazy amount of pseals (I think about 250-300 total BONUS apart from the pseals in the dungeons themselves). So for 8 toons, I'm done in about 1.5 hours and I have a crapton of pseals and about 144k AD.

    Also, about the abandoning, I haven't ever seen someone abandon the instance without even trying. Yes I got FBI one time, and we failed at the dragon turtle. We tried a couple of times but the tank wasn't that impressive :-) Can happen... I ended up kicking someone who wanted to leave so they didn't end up with a penalty and we abandoned ship.

    Overall - I'm fine with the change up until now. My 2 cts.

    Did you not pick up salvage previously?

    If the only thing you use to get RAD is/was the daily bonus from dungeons and skirmishes, then Random Queues are fine, but if you also previously took the rewards at the end of the dungeon you still have to go back and do the same amount of dungeons as before to get the same total RAD.

    Because leveling dungeons don't offer salvage, to get the same total RAD (including daily bonus and salvage) sub 11k players now have to run three dungeons intead of two. One leveling run for the daily bonus RAD, and 2 epic dungeons for the salvage.

    If you are running epic random queue its not so bad... you get salvage and daily bonus from the first dungeon, but still need to do the second dungeon exactly as before to get the ame amount of salvage. The only difference is, that for the daily bonus RAD dungeon you might end up in a 40 minute fail quest and get nothing.

    Basically, the only difference is that the bonus RAD is front loaded, and there is more potential for taking so long over completing that first dungeon that, for many people, running a second dungeon may be imposible due to daily time constraints.

    The idea that you have to use a random system becaue you got sick of running the same dungeon confuses me a little. The thing about having the choice is that you can chooe NOT to run the same dunegons you are getting tired of..

    By looking at the cleric quests I had in the journal, what keys I had, and which dungeons each character I play is equipped to help complete, I would tick the relevant boxes in public queue and see which one popped first. Kind of like "Random" dungeons, but without the chance of spoiling someone else's dungeon because at only scraping past the entry reqs for certain queues I know that I would be more of a hindrance than a help.

    The most positive response I've yet to see on Random Queues seems to be "Well, my experience wasn't AS BAD as some other people..."
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator
    WHY IS EVERYBODY QUEUING SOLO?!!

    You can make a full pre-made queue just as you used to. Just the dungeon you get will be a surprise, they group doesn't have to be.
    FrozenFire
  • taevannyataevannya Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    Okay, gonna throw it out there.

    Conceptually, I like the random queue. For a long time I struggled contributing to our SH in the dungeon power shard department because, well, there were no queues popping for places like CN, ECC, EGWD. Leaving me to only do EToS, VT, or ELoL (Never could get a Malabogs). Made it very slow going since I'd have to wait and check for the timer to see if they were popping from the Cleric at any time.

    I could have joined up with some people recruiting, but often people wouldn't even take a sub 11k (I was 10.8k) Paladin Tank into EToS (the player base that is actually recruiting has stupid gear expectations). So for me, being in a small guild, having limited play time, the way the queues were was my best option.

    So you maybe can imagine my excitement when they announced the Epic Dungeon Random queue! Hooray! Now I could be sure to generate 20 dungeon power shards/day. I had just popped over to 11k+ when it dropped, so I went to do it... and then realized I can't because I haven't finished RD and have barely begun Storm Kings. /Sigh.

    The ideas have been thrown out there. Personally, there's two things they could do.

    1.) Open the Random into the private queue system. That way, odd classes like Temp Locks and dps GFs can queue and not be penalized. Since the system has nothing to do with being with a random group anyways, I see no reason not to allow there to be a random epic dungeon option for the private queue. It would probably take the least amount of work on Cryptic's end to implement rather than trying to find a 'hamster' to run more wheels and contortions for the system to smartly recognize dps GFs and temp locks.

    2.) Take FBI/MSP/TONG out of the queue. Personally, I still think 11k is a little steep for ilvl for the other places, but I know it does make dealing with most pugs a little less painful if there's a solid gear expectancy. Most people that spend the effort to get to 11k are pretty well invested in the game on some level. Doesn't make them good players, but chances are the content will get done.

    So, there it is. My several cents on the subject. I am, I fear, one of the few who overall approves the changes that took place in 12b. But I think some things are not ideal and this is one of them. I don't want them to remove random queues, but I do want them to tweak it to be more friendly to a broader range of 70's.
    NW-DS9N7XBWI : Tel'met Beth'en Segreduin
    NW-DRSTZIHXU : The Silver Hand (needs reviews, RP map)
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11,152 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    taevannya said:

    Okay, gonna throw it out there.

    Conceptually, I like the random queue. For a long time I struggled contributing to our SH in the dungeon power shard department because, well, there were no queues popping for places like CN, ECC, EGWD. Leaving me to only do EToS, VT, or ELoL (Never could get a Malabogs). Made it very slow going since I'd have to wait and check for the timer to see if they were popping from the Cleric at any time.

    Wait! You couldn't form a party to do any of those with your guild and alliance?
    Even (say) if you are in different time zone from the rest of the guild/alliance, you can join some channel to form the party to do any of those.

    Many people got all the Cleric dungeon quests in the weekday and then did all these SH dungeon quest in a few hours in the weekend.

    What I am trying to say is: there were many ways to get to those dungeons. RQ is not the solution especially for those who are already in guild and are trying to build the SH.

    One more thing, why were CN, ECC, EGWD not popping? Because most people (especially guild/alliance) form their party to go in. They don't PUG.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    edited November 2017


    One more thing, why were CN, ECC, EGWD not popping? Because most people (especially guild/alliance) form their party to go in. They don't PUG.

    eGWD popped for me the first time yesterday. But I had to take the leavers penalty after the second mob group because it was obvious my DC would have to carry and the OP flinging mobs all over the place annoyed me. I wasn't in the mood to be main DPS and put up with that.

    CN does pops quite often for me. I think it is because the potential higher reward attracts people. But I think the only people doing eCC and eGWD is some low-geared person looking for the pirate hat or shirt.
  • rainer#8575 rainer Member Posts: 278 Arc User
    edited November 2017


    Did you not pick up salvage previously?

    On my 7 non-mains, I never did any epics or skirmishes. So no salvage to pick up.
    Funny enough, yesterday an artifact dropped in a non-epic for me....


    Because leveling dungeons don't offer salvage, to get the same total RAD (including daily bonus and salvage) sub 11k players now have to run three dungeons intead of two. One leveling run for the daily bonus RAD, and 2 epic dungeons for the salvage.

    Not enough time to do that, just 1 leveling dungeon for my 13.5k AD (per alt)
    Note that due to the changes, those alts that only run 1 leveling dungeon per day now get salvage from pseals.


    If you are running epic random queue its not so bad... you get salvage and daily bonus from the first dungeon, but still need to do the second dungeon exactly as before to get the ame amount of salvage. The only difference is, that for the daily bonus RAD dungeon you might end up in a 40 minute fail quest and get nothing.

    Well I agree there is a bigger risk that you might end up in a situation where you are having difficulty completing the dungeon. But on the other hand I hear people complaining that content is too easy. Take a challenge and try! You might like it.


    Basically, the only difference is that the bonus RAD is front loaded, and there is more potential for taking so long over completing that first dungeon that, for many people, running a second dungeon may be imposible due to daily time constraints.

    ... or only doing 1 dungeon in the first place because of timing constraints :-)


    The idea that you have to use a random system becaue you got sick of running the same dungeon confuses me a little. The thing about having the choice is that you can chooe NOT to run the same dunegons you are getting tired of..

    Well I guess that's a psychological thing. Why would someone purposely CHOOSE to do a dungeon that takes longer? If you can choose, you will always take the shortest one.


    By looking at the cleric quests I had in the journal, what keys I had, and which dungeons each character I play is equipped to help complete, I would tick the relevant boxes in public queue and see which one popped first. Kind of like "Random" dungeons, but without the chance of spoiling someone else's dungeon because at only scraping past the entry reqs for certain queues I know that I would be more of a hindrance than a help.

    The most positive response I've yet to see on Random Queues seems to be "Well, my experience wasn't AS BAD as some other people..."

    Well now, don't pick your own interpretation of what words to emphasize. I know there are some flaws in the new system but it's not as extreme as people make it out to be. Mostly the fact that new lvl70s are not able to participate in the epic/skirm random queues unless they fulfill all requirements. They have a problem there with people who could take off armor and then queue, and I think they should rethink their method.

    Maybe keep track of what queues your character was ever possible to run (?) and adhere to the requirements of those dungeons/skirmishes. That way people who have not done SKT (fresh level 70s without ER for instance) can still participate in dungeons up to CN. Same thing for skirmishes.
  • artifleurartifleur Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    IMO random epic would be fine if CN, FBI and MSP were in a different queue.

    Hero's accord is funny, you can't even queue for it with a team that actually has a chance of completing ToNG.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    artifleur said:

    IMO random epic would be fine if CN, FBI and MSP were in a different queue.

    Hero's accord is funny, you can't even queue for it with a team that actually has a chance of completing ToNG.

    Well, you *can* complete it with various weird class combinations, and for example a DC/OP/GWF/SW/CW team should not have issues, provided they are sufficiently well geared and (more importantly) skilled. It is perfectly possible to run ToNG with just a single DC - I have done that multiple times. It will be a bit slower (say, 5 additional minutes), but perfectly doable.

    Having a group with "DODC/ACDC/OP/dps/any" is no guarantee of a smooth, fast run. For example, I joined 3 ToNG runs yesterday. All of the groups were like this...2 DCs, one OP, one primary DPS and one "any"

    The first run was pretty much a disaster - the DPSer did basically not have enough DPS, the OP really did not know how to play his class and just kept blaming everyone else, asking people to switch powers, even when his orders made it clear he had no idea what he was talking about. Total time: 90 minutes.

    For the second run I joined a 4/5 group at the last boss - seems they had some problems with the person I replaced. We finished the boss easy enough in the first attempt - but then I saw the total time spent - over 4 hours. Ouch.

    For the third run, I joined an experienced group - a smooth run and we finished in 24 minutes. No issues whatsoever.

    Hoping for improvements...
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    dolrey said:

    It is the way how to make all dungeons live and to partly decide problem of group composition.

    I have NO idea what that is supposed to mean.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • intothegrooveintothegroove Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    Some thoughts:

    On my main toon (TR13300il) the main problem is being forced to try and run CN, FBI, MSP from the Elite Dungeons RQ. I've so far fallen into these 4 or 5 times and havn't once got close to completing the dungeon. Some people just bail out as soon as they appear, which while not being the right thing to do is often more sensible as you end up saving time. Running the leveling dungeons is a great way to get your AD's but its frustrating for you (as there's no challenge) and any lower levels in your group (who might actually want to explore and face the challenges).

    My main toon has unlocked pretty much everything apart from TONG so my SW (10300il) often gets thrown into Merchant Prince's Folly on the random skirmish which frequently results in numerous deaths and also means he has no access to the chest rewards at the end. Similarly my GF (9300il) doesnt have the required il for Merchants Princes Folly so he isnt eligible to run any of the Random Skirmishes for AD's where as before he was happily running Sharandar and Dead Ring to get his daily fix.

    Now i could queue all these skirmishes / dungeons individually but when you have limited time and want to get your daily AD's its not an option, you are forced into the RQ.

    As many people have said FBI, MSP and maybe CN should be pulled from the RQ for Elite Dungeons and given their own RQ.

    For the skirmishes rather than having your main character opening access to a skirmish for the whole account maybe it should be done individually and by item level.

    And things would be much more interesting with Elite versions of The Cloak Tower, The Frozen Heart, Temple of Idris and Pirate Kings Retreat and Caverns of Karrundax etc.

    The RQ is an ok idea so far but needs a bit of tweeking to get it right.
  • rainer#8575 rainer Member Posts: 278 Arc User


    On my main toon (TR13300il) the main problem is being forced to try and run CN, FBI, MSP from the Elite Dungeons RQ. I've so far fallen into these 4 or 5 times and havn't once got close to completing the dungeon.


    Running the leveling dungeons is a great way to get your AD's but its frustrating for you (as there's no challenge)

    So you don't want a challenge but you don't want it to be too easy? ;)
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11,152 Arc User
    edited November 2017


    Well I guess that's a psychological thing. Why would someone purposely CHOOSE to do a dungeon that takes longer? If you can choose, you will always take the shortest one.

    There are many reasons to choose a dungeon that takes longer.
    1. better loot (if it is better loot).
    2. more fun (if one enjoys it).
    3. ....

    Right now, the purpose of dungeon run is 'corrupted'. People run that for AD.
    When CN came back, what people complained was: it is not the original CN and this is too short.
    There are many rooms in CN that are now blocked. For the rooms that are not blocked, people would not even go into it because there is no loot for them to have a detour.
    Even now, in the channels I subscribe, people still keep posting 'fbi lf2m'. So, there are reasons.
    Post edited by plasticbat on
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • intothegrooveintothegroove Member Posts: 39 Arc User



    On my main toon (TR13300il) the main problem is being forced to try and run CN, FBI, MSP from the Elite Dungeons RQ. I've so far fallen into these 4 or 5 times and havn't once got close to completing the dungeon.


    Running the leveling dungeons is a great way to get your AD's but its frustrating for you (as there's no challenge)

    So you don't want a challenge but you don't want it to be too easy? ;)
    Maybe i should have made myself clearer. There is a big difference between a challenge and the impossible. I would love to have attempted these dungeons and with my item level and a competent team it would have been a great challenge (its why we play Neverwinter right?). However on almost every occasion i had the highest item level and was grouped together with people who were really not capeable (with a lower il) or they wanted a quicker and less challenging dungeon run just to get their ADs. We did make some valiant attempts at progressing but the outcome was predictable from the start. Throwing an underpowered unprepared group into FBI (or CN, MSP) is going to end in failure which can be frustrating because of the time wasted and if you see yourself in this situation and bail out you can not simply carry on queing because of the ban. So, you can end up losing out on playing time which kind of defeats the object of playing Neverwinter which is after all a game and supposed to be fun. and not everyone has the whole day to lard about playing video games.....
  • cattman5cattman5 Member Posts: 69 Arc User
    > @frozenfirevr said:
    > WHY IS EVERYBODY QUEUING SOLO?!!
    >
    > You can make a full pre-made queue just as you used to. Just the dungeon you get will be a surprise, they group doesn't have to be.

    Because we don't always have the Heals, tank and 3 DPS. This mod has totally taken the wind out of the sails of our guild. Our core players don't like the RQ and hate the nerfed bonding/rank 14 enchants to get to where you already where with the ultimate enchant stones never dropping. It has been an epic fail. We have been going strong for 2 years now and it fells like we just went off a cliff.
  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User

    WHY IS EVERYBODY QUEUING SOLO?!!

    You can make a full pre-made queue just as you used to. Just the dungeon you get will be a surprise, they group doesn't have to be.

    Because some people are in small guilds who don't have a lot of members online at one time in order to form full premades to go dungeon running.

    Because some people aren't in guilds at all.

    Because some people are new players who don't have a well-developed friends' list.

    Because some players have a circle of friends who refused to do SKT, or otherwise don't qualify for the random queue.

    Because some people are old players who prefer playing solo and always relied on solo queueing to get stuff done anyway.

    Because some people aren't aware of, or don't get invited to, all these private channels that form premades outside of alliance chat.

    I think there are more of these types of players than most people realize. Hence one reason why there are so many complaints about super-hard dungeons like FBI and TONG.
  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User


    Wait! You couldn't form a party to do any of those with your guild and alliance?
    Even (say) if you are in different time zone from the rest of the guild/alliance, you can join some channel to form the party to do any of those.

    And how exactly do people get access to these private elitist channels? They are private for a reason.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11,152 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    chemjeff said:


    Wait! You couldn't form a party to do any of those with your guild and alliance?
    Even (say) if you are in different time zone from the rest of the guild/alliance, you can join some channel to form the party to do any of those.

    And how exactly do people get access to these private elitist channels? They are private for a reason.
    I don't know how it works these days. In the old day, from forums, from normal chat channel, zone chat, search the game channel, send a mail to the channel admin to request to join, ....
    Most the channels I joined was because I was recruited from normal channel or in some PUG party (I don't do PUG anymore).
    Channel does not have to be for elite. Again, I don't know now but there were channels aimed for new players, etc.
    You can start a channel to recruit people for the similar goal too. I did that when I was new but I did not go too much further.

    That was my comment for a person who had problem to do dungeon for guild contribution BEFORE mod 12b.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,556 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    chemjeff said:

    WHY IS EVERYBODY QUEUING SOLO?!!

    You can make a full pre-made queue just as you used to. Just the dungeon you get will be a surprise, they group doesn't have to be.

    Because some people are in small guilds who don't have a lot of members online at one time in order to form full premades to go dungeon running.

    Because some people aren't in guilds at all.

    Because some people are new players who don't have a well-developed friends' list.

    Because some players have a circle of friends who refused to do SKT, or otherwise don't qualify for the random queue.

    Because some people are old players who prefer playing solo and always relied on solo queueing to get stuff done anyway.

    Because some people aren't aware of, or don't get invited to, all these private channels that form premades outside of alliance chat.

    I think there are more of these types of players than most people realize. Hence one reason why there are so many complaints about super-hard dungeons like FBI and TONG.
    chemjeff said:


    Wait! You couldn't form a party to do any of those with your guild and alliance?
    Even (say) if you are in different time zone from the rest of the guild/alliance, you can join some channel to form the party to do any of those.

    And how exactly do people get access to these private elitist channels? They are private for a reason.
    First, if you are going to generalize and use elitist in negative connotation, or simply as derogatory term, please do tell how other people should refer to you in the same spirit. Noob ? Scrub ? Insert_Something_Creative_Here ?

    Two: If you are not in any channels, how the hell you know the criteria to be in one ? How the hell you detrimend that they are elitist ? Or I misunderstand and you want to join only the elitist channels ?

    Now for the rest:

    1. This is why there are channels, if a guild is too small, people took and found other smaller guilds, groups, and joined into channels. Also guilds can be grown, or changed. It's not catholic marriage.

    2. People who are not in guild, can join one.

    3. Context menu has "Add to friend list", don't abuse it, but it's there. Usually it's polite to ask first. Or this is why there are channels....

    4. Circles can be broadened, or that's why channels are for, so you don't need to hunt for friends.

    5. If you prefer to play solo, don't complain to the rest of us of this preference, it has it's upsides, and has it's negatives. The major negative is the reliance on the queue. And it's such in every game.. And not in games...

    6. And what is the solution to that? To complain ? How about posting in the forums that you are looking for channels? Asking around? Posting on reddit / searching on reddit? Joining some of the public discords (chat only, not voice needed) and asking there ?
    Searching the forums? There were several posts about channels and people looking for them.

    BTW, channels are mostly private due to technicality, in which you can't reliably mute people or perma kick in public channel. It doesn't mean the channels have gear requirements.


    I truly understand that it's easier to complain, I like to complain too, honestly, it's one of my favorite pass times. But at some point a person should actually take active action to solve simple issues instead of complaining about them. Especially when, ironically, the complaints and actions are exactly the same, e.g. posting at the forums.

    One doesn't like the channels ? They are evil and elitist? Make a channel to your liking.
    The guild is dying ? Help recruit people that fit in.
    Can't find who invites to channels? F'ing ask.
    Don't like groups? Make a group.
    Recognized a problem in finding channel names and contacts? How about trying to make a thread and list all those. Channel names, requirements, and contacts. Maybe it will work, maybe it wont, but never know until someone tries.
    I need to continue?

    Yes not everything is simple, and yes it's a game, but there is so much that can be done with little effort to make the gaming expiriance so much easier. Yet, people choose not to do the minimal effort, and instead complain about all the 'evil' people who actually did.
    What next, everyone who is in a channel, in a guild, or can make a group, is an elitist ?


    AH, and to the topic, no I don't like RQ either.




  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator
    And, this is an MMO. No reason to be playing this game if you don't want group play even for a dungeon. Go play Skyrim.
    FrozenFire
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    After over a week of RQ, I think it's ok. Queues certainly been popping faster. And have a bit more variety in runs.

    In ERQ, the quality of toons is noticeably higher. Usually at most, only one min-iLvL toon in the run. Probably the one who direct queued the dungeon. I haven't had to do a run where it was a hard carry.

    I tried the LRQ, but I won't be doing it any more. The walk in some of the dungeons is just too damn long. ERQ has eSoT and KR. When you get them, its like doing another skirmish. CN pops often. But not much of a problem with the higher quality toons in ERQ.

    A few times I got FBI/mSP. I just take the leavers penalty and switch toons. Don't think any one minds. They get a free get-out-of-jail card on me.

    And best of all, I've been spending less time in the game and still able to hit the daily AD cap. Though I think part of the time-saving came from the refinement change. No more hoarding and managing RP. Every toon spends 30 seconds to convert all RP at the end of the night. It is just HAMSTER awesome.
  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    1. You asked for reasons why people might queue solo. I gave you reasons. I didn't say all of them applied to me personally. I didn't say they were all terrific reasons. But they are legitimate reasons and they exist. Not everyone plays the game like everyone else does. The mostly-solo player should understand that some people like to play in groups all the time. The mostly-group player should understand that some people like to do most things solo. There is nothing inherently right or wrong with either approach. No one should be shamed or belittled for either approach.
    2. I dislike the overuse of private channels, yes. Clearly our experiences with private channels are different. Other than the Legit channel, Weaver's now-defunct SKT channel, and guild-specific channels, I am not aware of private channels that aren't snobby and exclusionary. Yes I am a member of a few private channels, which I was only able to join due to connections with another guildie - if they had public invitations to join, I did not see them - and only in order to progress through SKT content, because it was nearly impossible for DPSers to find a group for Svardborg otherwise. Believe me, if I thought I could have advanced in any other way, I would have. But such is the state of the game. Condemn me for being a filthy hypocrite if you want, I do not care. I am nostalgic for the days when the content allowed players to form groups in PE LFG chat and tackle even hard content and have a reasonable chance of success. Which is also why it's difficult for me to form my own groups - I tend to be an egalitarian minded guy. My natural inclination is to take the first applicants for the group who qualify. Whenever I solicit a group for any content in Alliance chat, I am never demanding ilvl requirements. Alas, the newer content basically requires ilvl/gear snobbery in order to have a reasonable chance of success. I'm not blaming others for this. It is my own fault, of course. But people ask, "For the harder content, why not just form your own groups?" This is why. It is difficult for me to say "no" to people who otherwise qualify, just because their gear or IL might be lower than what I was expecting. And this is fine for the easier content. It doesn't work for the harder content.
    3. Evidently I struck a nerve with my comment about private channels. I am not accusing anyone specifically of being some evil elitist jerk, and I apologize if that is how my comments came across. After all I am a member of a few channels myself, even ones with IL requirements. And as I said, I wish they weren't necessary.
    4. Yes I do complain a lot, evidently too much. I see this game as taking a wrong turn back in Mod 10 with the super-hard dungeons which encourages players to form these exclusionary groups just in order to beat the dungeon in the first place.

    All I ask is that you try to look at the game from other players' points of view. Comments like "If you don't play the way I think you should play, you should quit" aren't helpful.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11,152 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    chemjeff said:


    All I ask is that you try to look at the game from other players' points of view. Comments like "If you don't play the way I think you should play, you should quit" aren't helpful.

    I think I did. The person I replied is in a guild and was trying to do SH dungeon quest to provide shard to contribute to the guild and he/she had problem (BEFORE mod 12b) to go to MC to fulfill SH MC quest. It is not TONG, FBI, etc. He/She could not do MC because it appears he/she did not form any party through guild/alliance/channel (which includes lfg channel) and just public queued alone and waited forever. Since he/she was willing to contribute to the guild (a good thing), I expect he/she is willing to work with others.

    My comment was:

    Wait! You couldn't form a party to do any of those with your guild and alliance?
    Even (say) if you are in different time zone from the rest of the guild/alliance, you can join some channel to form the party to do any of those.


    My suggestion of "joining channel" was after a big "if".
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User

    chemjeff said:


    Wait! You couldn't form a party to do any of those with your guild and alliance?
    Even (say) if you are in different time zone from the rest of the guild/alliance, you can join some channel to form the party to do any of those.

    And how exactly do people get access to these private elitist channels? They are private for a reason.
    I don't know how it works these days. In the old day, from forums, from normal chat channel, zone chat, search the game channel, send a mail to the channel admin to request to join, ....
    Most the channels I joined was because I was recruited from normal channel or in some PUG party (I don't do PUG anymore).
    Channel does not have to be for elite. Again, I don't know now but there were channels aimed for new players, etc.
    You can start a channel to recruit people for the similar goal too. I did that when I was new but I did not go too much further.

    That was my comment for a person who had problem to do dungeon for guild contribution BEFORE mod 12b.

    chemjeff said:


    All I ask is that you try to look at the game from other players' points of view. Comments like "If you don't play the way I think you should play, you should quit" aren't helpful.

    I think I did. The person I replied is in a guild and was trying to do SH dungeon quest to provide shard to contribute to the guild and he/she had problem (BEFORE mod 12b) to go to MC to fulfill SH MC quest. It is not TONG, FBI, etc. He/She could not do MC because it appears he/she did not form any party through guild/alliance/channel (which includes lfg channel) and just public queued alone and waited forever. Since he/she was willing to contribute to the guild (a good thing), I expect he/she is willing to work with others.

    My comment was:

    Wait! You couldn't form a party to do any of those with your guild and alliance?
    Even (say) if you are in different time zone from the rest of the guild/alliance, you can join some channel to form the party to do any of those.


    My suggestion of "joining channel" was after a big "if".
    I personally think you did too. Seems to me that your friend's experience is a pretty typical one. After all that is what the queue finder is supposed to do, match you with other people willing to group up to run that dungeon WITHOUT having to go through the trouble of forming your own group. There is precious little guidance from the game itself which leads newish players into the idea that they should be responsible for forming their own groups. And there is zero guidance about the existence of private channels. So when it comes to public queueing for random queues, I think it is less about people unwilling to work with others, and more about people unaware or unsure of the best way to form their own groups, or just generally being nervous about taking responsibility for forming a group.
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