Oathbound Paladin "Where is this power coming from?" [Tested on Preview]

ibz4ez · October 2017

How to repro the bug:

>Log into a level 70 Oathbound Paladin on preview shard
>Respec it with the following feats:

Heroic /
/Divine action 5
/Weapon Mastery 1
/Toughness 3
/Exemplar's Haste 3
/Impassioned Pleas 3
/Steadfast 5
Paragon /
/Swift Flash 5
/Flash of Light 5
/Radiant Champion 5
/Echoes of Light 5
/Prism 5
/Vengeful Judge 5
/Seraphim 5
/Warrior's Bastion 5
/Aura Gifts 5
>Slot the following class features:
Aura of Truth 4
Aura of Courage 4

>Slot 3 legendary companions

Water Archon [Active]
Fire Archon
Laughing Skull

>Slot 3x Bonding r14 on companion [Fire Archon]
>Slot 2x Ostorian ring of Dod

Both with Radiant r14 and Silvery r14 in offensive and defensive slots on the rings

>Slot Heroic Talisman of the companion + 3

With Brutal r14 in offensive slot

>Summon companion
>Go to the trade of blades
>Standing right next to your companion, strike a target dummy
>Observe power (increases with protector's camaraderie on mount insignia 3% 4 stacks)
>Whilst in combat with the Watermelon Sorbet Buff active, after standing next to companion and hitting target dummy I recorded 90031 (ish) power.

(25,806 in gear) (400 features) (64,325 in buffs)

>Now stand away from companion (In the other rooms of the Trade of blades)
>Observe power drops down from 84-90k down to 60-66k

I know that was a long repro.

The companion stats never suggest the fire archon has more that 7.8k power. However, I believe the feat Aura Gifts is buffing the companion's power (Resulting in this 84-86k power) then some unknown mechanic whilst actively in combat using encounters and at wills pushes power further to 90031.

I expect this is a bug... even if it favours me as a player.
Do let me know what you find.

majorcharvenak · October 2017

Shouldn't this be in the preview shard's bug reports and not the live bug reports page?

armadeonx · October 2017

You are aware that you share power with your companion and that it's returned to you by your bonding stones...?

armadeonx · October 2017

Just to be clear, you have 3x legendary companions plus 3x r14 bondings - that means your companion is returning (on preview) 223% of its stats - after you've buffed it with your pally including the protectors bonuses. So your companion has 7.8k power, plus the amount you share to him. Then multiply that figure by 2.23 and that should put you at around the figure you quoted.

ibz4ez · October 2017

majorcharvenak said:
Shouldn't this be in the preview shard's bug reports and not the live bug reports page?

It does the same thing on live as it does in preview. But I deliberately tested on preview to see if there was any difference.

ibz4ez · October 2017

armadeonx said:
You are aware that you share power with your companion and that it's returned to you by your bonding stones...?

Here's a thought: Am I supposed to be sharing power with my companion?
Just think it through with me.
I buff ally's power for 10,000. (No bondings)
If my companion has 223% stats to me with 7,800 (Base power no buffs) power I get + 17394.
So if I buff my companion for + 10k power, he then gets 17,800 power so I then get + 39694
With a base amount of 25,000 power , 400 features and 8,000 boon that comes to 73094 power. So 25% of that (Which is Aura Gifts) goes from 10k power to 18273. Companion now has 26073 power which gives me + 58142 grand total of 91542.
Now Aura gifts becomes 25% of that which is 22885 AND SO ON.

Point is if I buffed my companions power after 10 minutes of him proccing bondings I could have 1,000,000 power. Which clearly isn't the case because my power never exceeds 90,000 unless I'm being attacked by mobs (But that power I can account for).

The bug I'm pointing out is, yeah it's great I can buff my companion's power. But it's happening 2 times. So 10k and then around 18k power buff. Can you see how that is a bug rather than a mechanic?

dupeks · October 2017

ibz4ez#9773 said:

armadeonx said:
You are aware that you share power with your companion and that it's returned to you by your bonding stones...?
Here's a thought: Am I supposed to be sharing power with my companion?
Just think it through with me.
I buff ally's power for 10,000. (No bondings)
If my companion has 223% stats to me with 7,800 (Base power no buffs) power I get + 17394.
So if I buff my companion for + 10k power, he then gets 17,800 power so I then get + 39694
With a base amount of 25,000 power , 400 features and 8,000 boon that comes to 73094 power. So 25% of that (Which is Aura Gifts) goes from 10k power to 18273. Companion now has 26073 power which gives me + 58142 grand total of 91542.
Now Aura gifts becomes 25% of that which is 22885 AND SO ON.

Point is if I buffed my companions power after 10 minutes of him proccing bondings I could have 1,000,000 power. Which clearly isn't the case because my power never exceeds 90,000 unless I'm being attacked by mobs (But that power I can account for).

The bug I'm pointing out is, yeah it's great I can buff my companion's power. But it's happening 2 times. So 10k and then around 18k power buff. Can you see how that is a bug rather than a mechanic?

Aura Gifts only shares "base" power. The power you get back from companion does not get looped back and shared. So your claim here is incorrect and misleading.

Base power is not easily identifiable or intuitively defined, but we have been able to infer which components contribute to base power based on extensive testing.

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1227832/reference-power-sharing

Notably, Oath of Protection mechanic contributes to base power (so as you take damage, you gain shareable power up to 10% of your max HP)

There are some known issues with the legendary active bonus fluctuating (both on live and preview), which may be related to the fluctuations you are seeing.

There are also other effects happening here (like the 10% stat bonuses from "Expert" and "Master" companions) which are not reflected on the companion stats sheet.

Please make sure you are not spreading misleading information throughout the community.

Edit: Upon rereading, I'm not sure I understood your post correctly. Either way, I'm fairly confident that there is not any kind of looping double buff happening with Aura Gifts. There are a variety of complicated elements contributing to the power sharing, and those make it difficult to draw straightforward conclusions about the functionality.

Furthermore, it was emphasized in the bonding runestone change feedback thread that it might make sense to remove the mechanic that amplifies and transfers buffed companion power. But the devs didn't respond, leading me to believe that either the power transfer is technically difficult to untangle / remove, or that the sharing of buffed companion power is intended, and they want to balance content around that mechanic. As you can probably tell, I was hoping for a different resolution but it is what it is, right?

armadeonx · October 2017

The devs are very aware of how power sharing works and it has been discussed on the various threads on the upcoming changes, most specifically on the one relating to bonding stones.

Power sharing via companions is a major source of buffing by paladins and clerics and is one of the reasons for the devs reducing the effectiveness of them from 285% to 195%. They may well decide to make further changes but you can rest assured that this is a well known mechanic and is not a bug - it works as intended.

Dupeks is right in pointing out that only stats that add to base power are shared via aura gifts and this is deliberate to prevent the spiralling increase you spoke of. Base power (in this case) is your gear plus the 10% boost from the HP mechanic plus protectors mount bonuses. Power from external sources is not re-shared.

You clearly don't have a very good understanding of the mechanics yet and as such I would suggest you refrain from calling for changes to aspects of the game you don't fully understand.

dupeks · October 2017

armadeonx said:
The devs are very aware of how power sharing works and it has been discussed on the various threads on the upcoming changes, most specifically on the one relating to bonding stones.

Power sharing via companions is a major source of buffing by paladins and clerics and is one of the reasons for the devs reducing the effectiveness of them from 285% to 195%. They may well decide to make further changes but you can rest assured that this is a well known mechanic and is not a bug - it works as intended.

That's not the sense that I got. They definitively said that they considered bonding runestones out of line with other sources of stats in game, but to the best of my knowledge stopped short of commenting on the power sharing interaction. I may have missed it of course, but I was actively looking for it because I was hoping for / anticipating a rework that didn't come.

armadeonx said:
Base power (in this case) is your gear plus the 10% boost from the HP mechanic plus protectors mount bonuses. Power from external sources is not re-shared.

Just a small comment: protector's mount bonuses (I'm assuming you mean Protector's Friendship and Camaraderie) do not contribute to base power. The insignia bonuses rely on base power (the % bonus you get is calculated using only your base power, not including buffs), but do not contribute to it. The +power stat on the insignia (of dominance) themselves do count towards base power though.

Like I mentioned above, I think that the current design is somewhat problematic, and makes it difficult to balance around. Furthermore, it's opaque and unintuitive in it's current form, and the only way you know whether something contributes to "base" power is by testing it in isolation. Bleh.

armadeonx · October 2017

@dupeks yes sorry I should've said insignias are shared & returned but not protectors camaraderie and friendship.

Noworries was definitely light on feedback but the topic was certainly discussed to death. Some (myself included) went as far as to suggest they leave bondings at the current values, remove power sharing via bondings and compensate by increasing other buffs such as aura of courage.

Buffs that are linked to stats are always a contentious subject as stats increase as the game progresses and they force the buff classes to put everything into those areas, making it very hard to get decent stats for other purposes. The change they made to ITF is (to my mind) the way they should handle these things - changing it from the previous Defence linked scaling to a flat 30% buff.

hypnoticbeast · October 2017

So after all the Nerfing that was done to the Pally. Some one finds a long way to restore it to its former glory, then reports it? WTF?

Oathbound Paladin "Where is this power coming from?" [Tested on Preview]

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