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droprate "Ultimate Enchanting Stone"

hastati96hastati96 Member Posts: 498 Arc User
edited October 2017 in Player Feedback (PC)
I think the droprate is too low. After doing some TONG runs and wasting keys I got not even one enchanting stone. I know a lot of other people who have also done 10+ runs without getting one.
You will need roughly 90 Ultimate Enchanting Stones for upgrading your whole character from R13 to R14 but you can't really farm them. There is too much RNG. If you would get every 5th run 1 Enchanting Stone you would need 450 runs (each 30-40min; 250+ hours). You should get at least every 2nd tong run 1 Ultimate Enchanting Stone.
The only possiblity to ever get full R14 is the AH. No one has so much time to farm tong and the resources for legendary keys.
Nero - Palacetamol - Essence of Aggression

Comments

  • archangelzorak01archangelzorak01 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 324 Arc User
    This is reminiscent of Svardborg as far as drop rates are concerned. Except TONG is considerably more time consuming, considerably more difficult and we need CONSIDERABLY more of the marks that drop from it.



    Neverwinter Module 6: The only MMO expansion in the history of MMO's to remove more content than it added.


  • wizardlvl80#5963 wizardlvl80 Member Posts: 519 Arc User
    Sounds like Cryptic game design skills all over again.
  • oldbaldyoneoldbaldyone Member Posts: 1,840 Arc User
    Well after the hardcore TONG runners get done, those stones they no longer need will start floating down to the rest of the playerbase via the AH (which will lower the price). I would also assume that future content will drop the stones, but they seem to be making all content now as end game content, so I'm not sure thats going to help. The current people are just forgoing getting the upgraded stuff themselves hoping for a huge payday (and they will probably get it).

    I think they have basically said "Ok look, people are getting to BIS within weeks of new content. Lets ratchet that up to a few months for the top players".

    As it stands, I don't think many players will even bother with R14. Upgrading enchants has always been a poor way of increasing power (low ROI), and making it so extremely annoying to do isn't enticing for a small upgrade.
  • mcfobmcfob Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    8 tong runs+ zero Ultimates for me or anyone in party=really?
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    My data point: 3 ToNG runs yesterday - some opening one chest, others two. 2 reported getting a stone - that's around 10% drop rate. A bit low for me - I would have found 15% reasonable - that way it would only take me around 5 months to get the stones I need.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • hastati96hastati96 Member Posts: 498 Arc User
    They should atleast let us buy the stones for 200 / 300 / 400 seals each :neutral:
    Nero - Palacetamol - Essence of Aggression
  • sweetbreadssweetbreads Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 21 Arc User
    This problem is a real game changer for me. Currently 27 uEnchants on AH, cheapest is 1.2mil. I neither have the time or inclination to spam TONG. Its just a nerf by proxy and I for am not buying into it! PM when you've decided too address the problem because I'm letting this game take a back seat.
  • andorrabellandorrabell Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 437 Arc User
    This drop rate is really bad. Our most insane person has run 29 Tong runs, and gotten 2 stones.
    TWO.
    Assuming you change a weapon enchantment maybe once etc, you need over 90 PER CHARACTER (I run three now, it was four but my SW is now shelved ... ). That means if we think positive and assume the drop rate is 1/10 ( our data indicates so far its more like 1/15) thats 900+ TONG Runs per toon at 30 minutes a good run (more otherwise) for a minimum of 450 HOURS of running TONG. For most people a LOT more.

    This does not seem like good design. Up the rate for now, once people start selling THEN think about dropping it for long term market sustainability. Or add these to other places. Cause this is not cool guys, not at all.

    Add to that the horrible drop rate of stones from the lockbox artifact packs (i opened 67 and got Zero and that was the experience of most people n my guild) and... um... its just super depressing.

    HELP.
  • benyrbenyr Member Posts: 238 Arc User
    I have also found absolutely no ultimate stones from Tong yet, and for good measure i opened 54 lockboxes yesterday and guess what, i found no ultimates in them either.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    Still more data points from me - I am now estimating the drop rate as 5%.

    Is that in line with what others are seeing ?

    This is low enough to be demotivating, and considering that I actually don't *need* R14s, maybe I'll just stop chasing them altogether - spend less time and less money on the game, and stop chasing the "BiS" status.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • araxelvenaraxelven Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    adinosii said:

    Still more data points from me - I am now estimating the drop rate as 5%.

    Is that in line with what others are seeing ?

    This is low enough to be demotivating, and considering that I actually don't *need* R14s, maybe I'll just stop chasing them altogether - spend less time and less money on the game, and stop chasing the "BiS" status.

    Upgrading R13 Brutal enchants to R14 will give you exactly +90 power and +90 crit. That translates to less than 0.1% dps increase and about 0.25 crit%. You can upgrade ten of them and you'll gain 900 power (less than 1% dps) and 900 crit (2.5% crit chance increase).

    Is this worth 20 uMOPS (2M AD) AND 30 superior stones (currently 30M AD)? NO!

    It's kind of funny and sad to see people torturing themselves over this. I personnally this it's a good move from Cryptic to keep people from being "absolutely BiS" and encouraging them to continue playing, but looking at this rationally IT'S A TRAP!
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    araxelven said:


    It's kind of funny and sad to see people torturing themselves over this. I personnally this it's a good move from Cryptic to keep people from being "absolutely BiS" and encouraging them to continue playing, but looking at this rationally IT'S A TRAP!

    It's a psychological thing.... many MMORPG players are competitive, and one way to compete is to basically have newer/shinier/fancier/rarer or more expensive stuff than the next guy.

    (Which actually is not so different from "real life", is it?)
    Hoping for improvements...
  • oldbaldyoneoldbaldyone Member Posts: 1,840 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    araxelven said:


    It's kind of funny and sad to see people torturing themselves over this. I personnally this it's a good move from Cryptic to keep people from being "absolutely BiS" and encouraging them to continue playing, but looking at this rationally IT'S A TRAP!

    It's a psychological thing.... many MMORPG players are competitive, and one way to compete is to basically have newer/shinier/fancier/rarer or more expensive stuff than the next guy.

    (Which actually is not so different from "real life", is it?)
    Carrot on a stick. First it was +5 rings. Then marks in MSVA. Now its Marks from TONG.

    I fully agree - the benefit of being full rank 12 was only minimal over full rank 11. Rank 13 is really not that much of a benefit over 12...you can get the same benefit just hitting a potion before combat (yes, I know, hitting a potion and R13 is better...i get it).

    At this point, I'll slowly work towards R13s but I'm not going head over heels for it. I haven't tried TONG yet since 12b but I assume if I can still do that, what's the point in spending millions for a pittance?
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User


    At this point, I'll slowly work towards R13s but I'm not going head over heels for it. I haven't tried TONG yet since 12b but I assume if I can still do that, what's the point in spending millions for a pittance?

    I have run ToNG quite a bit since 12B (in fact, that's what I have spent most of my playtime on), and I find it slightly harder than before - Mu fastest pre-nerf run was 24 minutes. My fastest post-nerf one was 29. This is only because the bonding nerf gives everyone lower stats, so boss fights take a bit longer....that's all.

    However, groups that previously were struggling or took over an hour to complete ToNG might now be unable to finish. The primary bottleneck would be the first boss - if you cannot bring Orcus down before the TempHP of the person handling the balls runs out then you will simply wipe...no question.

    A second bottleneck exists with the last boss - a group that has a problem taking down the souls in a timely manner will find the bar filling up and that will result in a wipe.

    Quite frankly, I don't think a group barely meeting the requirements has any chance of finishing ToNG, but a 15+K IL group should not have any issues....the run will just take a few minutes longer.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    I upgraded my bondings to 13, but like old and baldy I'll slowly stroll towards rnk 13 on my other enchants. Rnk 14 can go hang. I've had a couple invites from people on the friend list for tong, but hmm, dunno, haven't been able to work up the motivation really. Sorry friendlist people.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • c3rb3r3c3rb3r3 Member Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited October 2017

    This is reminiscent of Svardborg as far as drop rates are concerned. Except TONG is considerably more time consuming, considerably more difficult and we need CONSIDERABLY more of the marks that drop from it.



    And the problem that comes from it is the vicious circle which is it becomes much more elitist, only elits people are accepted and farm it, with very high demand and low offer, price increasing and only elits and rich people selling it.
  • muratttimurattti Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 417 Arc User
    drop rate all to time hard nw i dnt knw why youare adding new patch ppl going to dungeon seal collecting leaving.

    :+1:
  • hastati96hastati96 Member Posts: 498 Arc User
    I am counting more then 15 runs now and still no stone ._. I think I will keep my enchants R13. The whole RNG is not really motivating me to farm tong <.<
    Nero - Palacetamol - Essence of Aggression
  • ilmenirailmenira Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    adinosii said:



    It's a psychological thing.... many MMORPG players are competitive, and one way to compete is to basically have newer/shinier/fancier/rarer or more expensive stuff than the next guy.

    (Which actually is not so different from "real life", is it?)

    so true!
    and this is what i dislike most about our world in neverwinter -- though it's not specific to this game...
    i stupidly oppose against it
    on and on!

    it's our drive to a distorted, unsustainable world...

    edit: in real and unreal life :)
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    hastati96 said:

    I am counting more then 15 runs now and still no stone ._. I think I will keep my enchants R13. The whole RNG is not really motivating me to farm tong <.<</p>

    got my first stone in run number 47... this is HAMSTER xD
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    Yea. I am running Tong for the seals - have already a full set of Primal gear for my main, and a few extra pieces - sure, I can continue to run it to gear up my less-played alts, but with a max of 400 seals/week, I probably will not run Tong more than just to reach that max ... not running it for a %1 chance of getting an ultimate stone.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • luks707luks707 Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    The stones should be purchasable for seals of the brave. That way there's at least minimum progress being made.
    But yeah, same joy-killing experience at MSVA, although at least here you can't end up with 12 of the wrong kind of mark (like I have!)
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