NOOB Question: Paladin Tank. Why Justice?

thwaite81 · September 2017

Hello, I recently came back to the game (~2 weeks ago or so) and created a new character, obviously an OB Paladin with being a tank in mind.

Now that I sprinted to level 70 and began looking at builds, I noticed a lot of builds (if not all) using the Justice skills and nothing into protection. Talking about AP cap and critical caps instead of damage mitigation. Coming from other MMOs, this is just weird as all get out. I am down with it, but my question is WHY? None of the builds really explain the why... Is the end game so horridly easy that the tanks don't even need to worry about damage mitigation and defense, that they can just tank-dps?

I am seriously not trolling, I am seriously trying to learn the mechanics and understand why everyone is going this way with their builds. I have a free respec and want to use it wisely.

hirogarde · September 2017

As I see it, there's two main factors at play.

Defense caps at an easily accessible level
- Getting as little 30-40% resistance on your character sheet will easily cap your defense in combat – meaning you’re taking as little (raw) damage as possible.
- Realistic values of Actual and Temporary HP far exceed any single attack a boss can hit you with.
- Those two things mean that without any extra defenses we’re already pretty close to unkillable.
Threat
- Oath of Protection gives us 500% threat for damage done. That means more damage = more threat. This extra threat is necessary to tank with any kind of fighter in the group – GF and GWF can strip a boss off an OP in a heartbeat if the pally isn’t careful.
- More threat means we take more damage -> which gives us more power -> which converts to even more damage. If you’re used to the standard “tank” from other games (all armor no gun), you’ll need to rethink the role in Neverwinter. Paladins can have it both ways here.

There’s also the issue of the other trees… Although neither is completely “gimped,” they don’t add much to the capabilities we already have. Justice adds a bunch of “toys” that boost our group’s offensive capabilities as well as our own - which makes it very appealing, no matter your role in the group.

All of that being said: The paladin can fill almost any roll, so long as you’re flexible in your playstyle. I personally play in the Light tree and have no issues. I've also built into the Bulwark line to try it out - though it heps a bit, there's no real reason to take it to the capstone.

armadeonx · September 2017

To expand on the temporary health - this is our shield, far more so than anything else. Even with only 50% DR (damage reduction) in combat, we can easily survive most hits by relying on HP. If the fight is with a really hard hitting boss, change one skill (to CoP) and you're sitting at 75% DR and get an extra 30% temp HP on top of that.

Temp HP from Templars Wrath is increased by only one stat - Power.

On top of this, if your AP gain is sufficient, you can perma SoF and everyone gets another 30% of reduced incoming damage.

trzebiat · September 2017

Short answer - GF is the classic tank (lowering damage of enemies and healing himself after being hit) and OP is not. OP tanks by eating all the damage with high HP, not mitigating it. And it's done by dealing damage to hold aggro and get huge amounts of Temporary HP. OP relies on powers to tank, while GF on mechanic of shield reducing damage and gear to increase Damage Resistance. OP gets a lot Damage Resistance from powers instead.

Because of that Justice is the only viable path in PvE as it achieves few things. First - increased damage from capstone so more aggro and Temp HP. Second - all cooldown reduction buffs - using powers more often and refreshing Temp HP. Bullwark is the path created around GF tanking mechanics which is mitigating damage and self heals which is exactly opposite to the way OP tanks. It's good only for PvP where you don't get as much Temp HP as in PvE and need those heals.

thwaite81 · September 2017

Thanks all for the replies! I respec'ed and already notice a huge dps difference, just base on the spec and abilities being used. I don't think I hold aggro a good anymore though because my striker companion during quests was pulling it off of me.

I copied the following build:
http://mmominds.com/2017/08/31/paladin-protection-prism/

armadeonx · October 2017

Just make sure your Resistance Ignored is high enough in combat. Your RI needs to be higher than enemy DR (Damage Resistance) for your strikes to have full impact - this significantly affects your threat output.

Non-chult open world content - 55% RI
Dungeons - 60% RI
Chult - 75% RI

Note: skills with taunts/forced threat: you can use Relentless Avenger for solo but not in teams due to it throwing enemies everywhere. For groups you can use Binding Oath. For your at-will I would recommend always using Oath Strike unless you're dealing with a really hard hitting boss, in which case you can use Shielding Strike.

Always start off with Radiant Strike.

thwaite81 · October 2017

armadeonx said:
Just make sure your Resistance Ignored is high enough in combat. Your RI needs to be higher than enemy DR (Damage Resistance) for your strikes to have full impact - this significantly affects your threat output.

Non-chult open world content - 55% RI
Dungeons - 60% RI
Chult - 75% RI

Note: skills with taunts/forced threat: you can use Relentless Avenger for solo but not in teams due to it throwing enemies everywhere. For groups you can use Binding Oath. For your at-will I would recommend always using Oath Strike unless you're dealing with a really hard hitting boss, in which case you can use Shielding Strike.

Always start off with Radiant Strike.

How do you get more Resistance Ignored? (Assuming this is RI) Armor Pen? I was just looking at mine and it is 20%

armadeonx · October 2017

There are a few boons that boost it, such as Dread Ring 'Forbidden Piercing' which gives 3% RI and Tyranny 'Draconic Armorbreaker' which gives about 4%.

Armor Pen increases RI by about 1% to 100 points but decreases a little as it goes higher, to about 1% for every 130 points.

You also get 5% RI for using Radiant Strike and that lasts for 15 seconds, so be sure to use it more frequently than that in fights and should always be your opening attack going into combat.

Companions are very useful for filling gaps in RI, especially if you use bonding stones. As you'll want to have all Radiants in Offence slots on your personal gear you won't have any space for Darks (in offence slots these give armor pen) but you can pad out gear on your companion with them.

E.g. until you get high level gear you can use the new rings from the vendor for crit & recovery but put Dark enchantments in their offence slots as needed.

Enemies at lower levels have no defence so you don't need RI but they gain defence as you progress to L70. By the time you hit IWD you'll need 50% RI and 55% for most T2 dungeons but there are a couple of T2 bosses that require 60% (e.g. Tiamat). Chult breaks this norm by requiring 75%.

Here's a list of all boons so you can work things out:
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Boon

niadan · October 2017

Chult actually goes as high as 85%.

NOOB Question: Paladin Tank. Why Justice?

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