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Official Feedback Thread: Refining Refinement

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  • poof00poof00 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    RE: refine all function.

    It would be good to be able to flag items in inventory to "exclude" them from the "refine all" functions. I keep seeing artifact equipment or higher level stones appearing in the list and they have to actively removed. You're going to have people converting to refinement points a lot of items by mistake. It's a great feature overall but just too dangerous at the moment.
  • onodrainonodrain Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    r000kie said:



    Edit: what I really resent is that in the tech notes they boast the fact the 2nd enchant needed for refining R7-R9 is gone. Well, you increased the amount of GM of Potency needed. For armor/weapon enchants, R8 needs 10 of them (up from 2) to be upgraded, R9 15, R10, 10 SUPERIOR marks, R11 15 of them, R12 10 ULTIMATE marks. With RNG. Consider slashing those in half

    With the current system, it costs more to go from R7 to R10 than from R10 to R12. The reason was all the coalescent wards needed. That was really a silly design from the beginning IMHO. So moving forward they changed the design so it is more inline with a rational upgrade...each upgrade is more expensive than the one before. Overall, it is a lot less expensive with the new system if you start from shards. But about same costs if you were starting with R8, due to the cost of the R8.
  • scathiasscathias Member Posts: 1,174 Arc User
    r000kie said:

    micky1p00 said:

    If you want, I can mail you R12 on preview, tomorrow. (write the handle)

    Much appreciated, but I made a new batch already
    onodrain said:

    For me on test, if I have an existing character, it did not update my marks properly. If I moved a character to test, it updated my marks automatically when I logged them in.

    You can manually convert the marks. Type this into your chat window

    /ConvertMarksToEnchantingStones

    Thanks. I realized in the end that only new chars will work, but at 4 am I just decided to call it a day.

    Edit: what I really resent is that in the tech notes they boast the fact the 2nd enchant needed for refining R7-R9 is gone. Well, you increased the amount of GM of Potency needed. For armor/weapon enchants, R8 needs 10 of them (up from 2) to be upgraded, R9 15, R10, 10 SUPERIOR marks, R11 15 of them, R12 10 ULTIMATE marks. With RNG. Consider slashing those in half

    It was answered previously in this thread that the reason for increasing the number of GMOPs/SMOPs used for weapon and armor enchants was so that trans enchants would hold more of their value. Overall the cost of a weapon or armor enchant is going to fall by quite a bit due to the reduction in coal wards needed and the fact that you don't need matching enchants to go up to the next rank. Cryptic doesn't want a 2 million AD trans enchant to be the first thing that a new player buys because that is the best upgrade they can make for their money... and I don't want all my trans enchants to go from being worth 6 mil down to 2 mil either.
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  • niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    @noworries#8859

    How about adding a chance to receive a Coal Ward and/or high level marks/ refining stones (in addition to the normal RP) whenever we refine items of a certain level? Such as maxed weapons, armor, etc.
    Post edited by niadan on
  • undepartedundeparted Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    Do we get a 2x RP one last time like the PC people got? Or are we getting cheated out of that one? Would be nice to know if one should continue hoarding, or just spend it as you pick it up.

    I think the changes overall is good. (Not counting bonding changes, guess you felt you needed to press people out of more money, before TERA and Black Desert will end Neverwinter's monopolistic market on Xbox).

    And the changes is not going to make it easier for new players. It will take it too long to upgrade artifacts without feeding. People will give up along the way.

    Btw why would you prioritize upgrading visuals on the water in PE. Instead of... I dunno, how about picking one out the thousands other things that annoy everyday players... like NOT censoring common words like - got - ???

    Also, I promised a friend to say - fix archery.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    r000kie said:

    So the last 3 mods are played by a bit over 400 players, in a weekend. Even if is not a peak hour, is way too low - and many myself included will stay in game for hours at end, changing between my 4 avas.

    TBH, it's an unfair weekend to be checking those locations and making a judgment. Anyone playing Portobello stuff can't be in a campaign zone. And it's also 2xXP, so you end up with a significant chunk of people focused on leveling content.

    And personally, I'm planning on getting back into the more recent campaign zones after we get some of these QoL changes and I have more room for the associated quest tat. Not sure if many people feel the way I do, but I don't really want to junk up my bags more than necessary right now, knowing it'll be easier to cope with soon(tm).
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

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  • habeeb#2206 habeeb Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    Can anyone tell me what r the cost for coal wards gone to ? Thx
  • onodrainonodrain Member Posts: 334 Arc User

    Can anyone tell me what r the cost for coal wards gone to ? Thx

    Coalescent and preservation wards are zen store items. The price is unchanged.
  • habeeb#2206 habeeb Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    > @onodrain said:
    > Can anyone tell me what r the cost for coal wards gone to ? Thx
    >
    > Coalescent and preservation wards are zen store items. The price is unchanged.


    Thx. Some ppl been saying here about coal wards so thought prices changed
  • tazquebectazquebec Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    What will happen to are enchantments and stones in character personal and share inventory on are first connection?
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    tazquebec said:

    What will happen to are enchantments and stones in character personal and share inventory on are first connection?

    Presumably they will be converted to the gem equivalent. Hope they remember to get the stuff in mail also
  • preechr#2215 preechr Member Posts: 488 Arc User

    tazquebec said:

    What will happen to are enchantments and stones in character personal and share inventory on are first connection?

    Presumably they will be converted to the gem equivalent. Hope they remember to get the stuff in mail also
    OOH that's an interesting point... What's stored in mail or in shared bank space is considered private and not backed up, so it does fall into a separate category
    I would think most likely the conversion happens at a base item level, replacing one thing with another, no matter where it exists, so the old items just won't be in the game, only the new ones
    But if the conversion were an active item per item swap, that might be a concern
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User

    tazquebec said:

    What will happen to are enchantments and stones in character personal and share inventory on are first connection?

    Presumably they will be converted to the gem equivalent. Hope they remember to get the stuff in mail also
    The answer is actually DIDDLY SQUAT. No change to item types except the marks to enchanting stones. No change to bind statuses.

    Don't fire up fearmongering over things you haven't tried. Nothing in the refinement system will happen until you want it to, except for the auto-replacement of items that will no longer have any function at all.

    Discontinued RP stones will convert into global RP at the normal rate (10% of their current highest value) when and where you decide to crunch them, though any that were character-bound will have to be crunched on the character they're bound to.

    The exception appears to be the relic refinement from SoMI, which I have not really done anything with.
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  • noworries#8859 noworries Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 651 Cryptic Developer

    Gems from Sea of Moving ice content (Rough Emerald/Amethyst/Sapphire/Ruby and their restored counterparts) are curently converting to lower than expected RP values in the new system. E.g. Lustrous Cloud Amethyst is worth 250 RP, when going by the 10% conversion rate it should be worth 1250 RP, assuming it is deliberate that these gems are simply losing their match bonus.

    Also, some small feedback for the new system, may be a little rambly, I apologise in advance.

    The existing inventory icons for the SOMI emerald and amethyst are much prettier than the ones made for the new gems, have you considered just reusing those? It'd be nice to see those visuals stick around in the new RP system.

    Now that there are 2 new gap-filer stones between peridot and flawless sapphire (black pearl and emerald) the aquamarine now seems a little redundant. Also as it's a multiple of 3 compared to the previous stone, where you usually do multiples of 2 or 5 it seems weird and offends my sense of symmetry.

    Finally: a lot of people seem to want a way to make it easier to send RP to alts. While it's easy to use bound RP on one character to upgrade enchants, we will also have some character bound items we can't transfer, and therefore need to send over gems to put in that particular character's RP pool. Personally I find it a little tedious sending over 20 stacks of peridot because I want to upgrade an alt's weapon so I'd like to suggest a QoL change to make it easier. Add a "gem trader" merchant that will allow us to buy higher-value RP stones using smaller ones. So for example I can "buy" a flawless sapphire using 10 peridot, or trade 2 sapphires for a black opal. that way if we need to send over RP to a specific character we can do so fairly quickly.

    Since there is no more matching, the gems from the Sea of Moving Ice had to be adjusted to not destroy the overall RP economy. They were set so high previously since they were just an accelerant for specific items. It is a change that had to happen with this switch over. We do expect overall players will find RP as a whole easier to acquire now, which should help mitigate that change.

    We wouldn't want to reuse the icons to avoid confusion between the two different items.

    The gap filler stones were used to allow for more options when giving out rewards and in some cases to make sure there was a direct replacement for where enchantments no longer dropped. I wouldn't expect to see any of them go away at this point.

    We certainly had talks about making RP easier to move around alts before putting this system out. The main concern is if there is a bound to character source of RP that could be exploited/farmed in some way. So we decided to proceed with caution at first and let the system play out on live first and then we have no problems revisiting the topic of allowing RP to go into the shared bank to make it easier to move around if it looks safe to do so.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User

    Since there is no more matching, the gems from the Sea of Moving Ice had to be adjusted to not destroy the overall RP economy. They were set so high previously since they were just an accelerant for specific items. It is a change that had to happen with this switch over. We do expect overall players will find RP as a whole easier to acquire now, which should help mitigate that change.

    Have the restoration costs for SoMI refinement gems been adjusted? Seems to me some of them might be excessive depending on the final RP value of the item being restored, but I haven't had opportunity to check these out specifically. Some of them use reagents that are still rare and some use items that have ended up really common due to maps. I was under the impression lanolin for seals didn't help here as restoration of items using lanolin also required moults.

    Also, does it still feel reasonable for those particular gems to always be BtA? I don't have strong feelings about it either way, but in the general economic sense, I could see that they were BtA previously because of their very high value. Reduced, do they still need that same limit?

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    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    pitshade said:

    The problem with SoMI RP stones is that unless a change has been made, they are giving 1/50 rather than 1/10 of their *non matching* value, not the very high value for relic weapons. It is understandable that the new value not be based on the matching number, but this doesn't seem right.



    I looked at one stone that on live is worth 2500 RP for 'other items' so it is the value of 5 Peridots. On Preview, it is giving a value of 50 RP, or ONE Peridot. Even if you can't or won't preserve the Relic Weapon interaction, the stones shouldn't be losing their standard values.

    You've looked at it in far more detail than I have. This seems reasonable. It's not like they're doing anything such that SoMI RP is any less work or expense to acquire than currently.
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    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • noworries#8859 noworries Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 651 Cryptic Developer
    pitshade said:

    The problem with SoMI RP stones is that unless a change has been made, they are giving 1/50 rather than 1/10 of their *non matching* value, not the very high value for relic weapons. It is understandable that the new value not be based on the matching number, but this doesn't seem right.



    I looked at one stone that on live is worth 2500 RP for 'other items' so it is the value of 5 Peridots. On Preview, it is giving a value of 50 RP, or ONE Peridot. Even if you can't or won't preserve the Relic Weapon interaction, the stones shouldn't be losing their standard values.

    They've been adjusted to be 1/10 of their non-Relic value on live.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    Thank you.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • noworries#8859 noworries Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 651 Cryptic Developer
    Bloodtheft enhancement:

    We were looking at this today and are going to make the following changes to it:

    Unparalleled: When below 75% health you have a 35% chance upon receiving damage to deal 175% of Weapon Damage as Necrotic damage to your attacker and heal yourself for that amount. This will happen again once a second for the next 4 seconds at 35% of Weapon Damage. This can only occur once every 18 seconds.

    Transcendent: 75% health, 30% chance, 150% damage, 25% periodic damage, 20 seconds

    Pure: 60% health, 25% chance, 125% damage, 22 seconds

    Perfect: 50% health, 20% chance, 100% damage, 24 seconds

    Greater: 50% health, 15% chance, 75% damage, 26 seconds

    Moderate: 50% health, 10% chance, 50% damage, 28 seconds

    Lesser: 50% health, 5% chance, 25% damage, 30 seconds


    The damage will scale with power.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited September 2017

    Bloodtheft enhancement:

    We were looking at this today and are going to make the following changes to it:

    Unparalleled: When below 75% health you have a 35% chance upon receiving damage to deal 175% of Weapon Damage as Necrotic damage to your attacker and heal yourself for that amount. This will happen again once a second for the next 4 seconds at 35% of Weapon Damage. This can only occur once every 18 seconds.

    Transcendent: 75% health, 30% chance, 150% damage, 25% periodic damage, 20 seconds

    Pure: 60% health, 25% chance, 125% damage, 22 seconds

    Perfect: 50% health, 20% chance, 100% damage, 24 seconds

    Greater: 50% health, 15% chance, 75% damage, 26 seconds

    Moderate: 50% health, 10% chance, 50% damage, 28 seconds

    Lesser: 50% health, 5% chance, 25% damage, 30 seconds


    The damage will scale with power.

    @noworries#8859 to clarify, will it also scale with buffs and debuffs (as I am thinking it will) or just power? Just want to know exactly what is intended for it.
  • noworries#8859 noworries Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 651 Cryptic Developer

    Bloodtheft enhancement:

    We were looking at this today and are going to make the following changes to it:

    Unparalleled: When below 75% health you have a 35% chance upon receiving damage to deal 175% of Weapon Damage as Necrotic damage to your attacker and heal yourself for that amount. This will happen again once a second for the next 4 seconds at 35% of Weapon Damage. This can only occur once every 18 seconds.

    Transcendent: 75% health, 30% chance, 150% damage, 25% periodic damage, 20 seconds

    Pure: 60% health, 25% chance, 125% damage, 22 seconds

    Perfect: 50% health, 20% chance, 100% damage, 24 seconds

    Greater: 50% health, 15% chance, 75% damage, 26 seconds

    Moderate: 50% health, 10% chance, 50% damage, 28 seconds

    Lesser: 50% health, 5% chance, 25% damage, 30 seconds


    The damage will scale with power.

    @noworries#8859 to clarify, will it also scale with buffs and debuffs (as I am thinking it will) or just power? Just want to know exactly what is intended for it.
    It will scale in all of the ways that other scaling enchantments which use weapon damage as a multiplier scale.
  • sofffftailsofffftail Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4 Arc User

    Edit: what I really resent is that in the tech notes they boast the fact the 2nd enchant needed for refining R7-R9 is gone. Well, you increased the amount of GM of Potency needed. For armor/weapon enchants, R8 needs 10 of them (up from 2) to be upgraded, R9 15, R10, 10 SUPERIOR marks, R11 15 of them, R12 10 ULTIMATE marks. With RNG. Consider slashing those in half

    So using the (inflated due to dbl refining days, granted) prices on the market today, it looks like upgrading a gem from 11 to 12 today costs about 325K AD worth of refining agents - not including wards. Using the same prices, it will cost about 1.125 Million AD after this change - not including wards. OMG.
  • nisckisnisckis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 655 Arc User
    edited October 2017

    As a note, the Bonus RP event should be active on Preview today, so feel free to go try it out and give us some feedback.

    I have been testing the new event at preview and right now I must say that I don't quite like it.

    The event is stated as


    so you should get an amount of RP depending of your level.

    Right now it doesn't work as stated in text because most of the kills will not grant you any RP at all.

    In conclusion, the event is not working as the text says so I don't know what it is supposed to do. Anyway, when you finally get a RP reward from the event it's very low, ranging from 28 RP to 31 RP.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    I also tried the new Bonus RP on preview and was similarly underwhelmed. I ran a patrol in Chult and earned nothing at all and wondered if the event simply wasn't working, then went to Sharander and just ran in a circle killing stuff. I earned more RP from the green equipment I picked up than from the event. For it to really qualify as an event that can help with progression, the quantity of RP it gives as kill bonuses should be cranked up.

    The lack of visible event feedback is also an issue, imo. I had to keep opening my Riches tab to see whether or not the counter was going up. I imagine the event "drop" is on a cooldown like any event that drops bonus loot from kills (Tymora, Waukeen), but those you can see and be aware of the timing of them.
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