Official Feedback Thread: Bonding Runestone Changes

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  • gripnir78
    gripnir78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 374 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    Ok, I'm once again going to put in my 2 cents - and please everyone keep in mind that my opinions are my own and I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. In my opinion - the reason they are doing this is so that people have more options. Currently as it is on the live server, the only logical option for companions is to go with bondings as high rank as you can afford with the very best slots. With this state - what's the point of even having the augment companions? The only people who have been using augments at all are people who are either too poor to afford bondings, people who are total noobs or haven't done any research at all, or people who just don't care. While yeah, I disagree with them lowering them to the point where rank 14 is the new rank 12, I do agree that they did have to do SOMETHING with them. Having something that is BiS for every class and every build is just bad for everyone in the long run. Having them buff everything else to the point or even close to the point of bondings would be so very much more work, it would throw so much stuff off balance, more than people can generally even imagine. This was basically their only option at this point. I wish, along with a few people, that they had done this a long time ago, like last time they reworked bondings. I'm not sure why they didn't, but I do know that the devs that are working on it this time around are not the same devs that worked on it last time around.

    Basically, it is what it is. I do urge everyone to stick around and try the changes. Especially the ones who can't currently get on preview to test them.

    Thing is - peoples wont have more options as bondings remain BIS after a change. It was prooven here numerous times. Heck even if bondings were nerfed even more to runed augment level there would be still no reason not to use them for most players. Buffs/debuffs, heal or procing some insignia bonuses coming form active non augment companion, still make them better. Sure there would be more players switching to augments depending on class/build but majority would leave bondings as a first choice.

    And I will even tell you how that gona end - devs soon after release of 12b will announce a great victory - more players are using augments. But as always - devil gona be hidden in details. Sure more augments gona be on use - on alts runing clock towers - keeped from any hard content unlock to keep them getting AD form easiest possible, limited range of random que dungeons/skirmishes. But that would be also because players gona strugle to put their money/resources to bring back their mains to playable level again.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234
    gromovnipljesak#8234 Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    Ok, I'm once again going to put in my 2 cents - and please everyone keep in mind that my opinions are my own and I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. In my opinion - the reason they are doing this is so that people have more options. Currently as it is on the live server, the only logical option for companions is to go with bondings as high rank as you can afford with the very best slots. With this state - what's the point of even having the augment companions? The only people who have been using augments at all are people who are either too poor to afford bondings, people who are total noobs or haven't done any research at all, or people who just don't care. While yeah, I disagree with them lowering them to the point where rank 14 is the new rank 12, I do agree that they did have to do SOMETHING with them. Having something that is BiS for every class and every build is just bad for everyone in the long run. Having them buff everything else to the point or even close to the point of bondings would be so very much more work, it would throw so much stuff off balance, more than people can generally even imagine. This was basically their only option at this point. I wish, along with a few people, that they had done this a long time ago, like last time they reworked bondings. I'm not sure why they didn't, but I do know that the devs that are working on it this time around are not the same devs that worked on it last time around.

    Basically, it is what it is. I do urge everyone to stick around and try the changes. Especially the ones who can't currently get on preview to test them.

    Ehhhh.
    You know, that would be believable if augments were actually viable now.

    They're not. The power you lose from comps via power share is just too much. So that's definitely not it.
  • niadan
    niadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    @gabrieldourden
    You are completely right. We truely need a "State of the Game" blog post on where these changes are going. This would at least give the community an idea of why and where we are headed. My character is like an old classic car that I am constantly tweeking, but it is hard to properly plan those tweeks when change seems to be the norm and very frequent. I do not mind the change part, as long as I know where it is headed, and feel like it is proactive instead of reactive. The reason this looks reactive is that we just shuffled stats around for the new arp cap, and now this bonding nerf is on the horizon. Next we will be hit by a power share rework, causing another round of angst followed by a level cap increase...lol. (sry just venting).
    Post edited by niadan on
  • araxelven
    araxelven Member Posts: 72 Arc User

    The thing is, NO ONE wants more nerfs. Bonding nerf is already too much. And the fact that we have to spend MULTIPLE MILLIONS of AD (for me at 14.5k, it's about 44m) to upgrade our enchants, so we get to the same level I was before... yeah no thanks.
    A short song pops into my head every time I remember this nerf.
    Called "HAMSTER this HAMSTER, I'm out".

    You don't HAVE to spend AD on anything. This is an example but aside from enchants on your companion, someone upgrading his x7 Brutals R12 to R14 on his character would gain 1260 power and 1260 crit. That's like 1-2% of your damage and 3% crit. That's a ridiculous ROI for your investment and inluding Defense and Utilility enchants is absurd.

    Sure, we'll probably upgrade everything to R14 eventually but it's more of an ego thing than a real competitive need.
  • gabrieldourden
    gabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    > @gromovnipljesak#8234 said:
    > The thing is, NO ONE wants more nerfs. Bonding nerf is already too much. And the fact that we have to spend MULTIPLE MILLIONS of AD (for me at 14.5k, it's about 44m) to upgrade our enchants, so we get to the same level I was before... yeah no thanks.
    > A short song pops into my head every time I remember this nerf.
    > Called "<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, I'm out".

    I'm pretty much where you are (14.8k, would be 15.3k with full guild boons). As you say, without more insight about where the game is going to, it just seems a money grab, and a very expensive one, especially considering there are clearly other nerfs coming (dailies, dual-DC buffing, astral shield,...).

    Giving a clear statement about where they are heading would go a long way in terms of getting support from the player-base.

    Let's be honest, do we need damage in billions in dungeons? Are we happy about trivializing the second boss in TONG by DC power-spamming, so that you don't have to dodge or care about the dwarves? Are we happy about FBI bosses going down in seconds?
    DPS (and bosses HP-pools accordingly) has been overinflated too much by a never-ending stream of buffs and bonuses and whatnot, so that this game evolved from a control/dodge/tank/heal game to a burn-down-everything-while-enjoying-immunity that really reminds me the end of mod5 where lifesteal was so high that I could jump with my squishy HR into mob pools and never fear anything.
    The devs need to do something. The point is that as of today instead of doing it "together" with the player base, explaining where they want to get and how, they are doing it "against" the player base by doing it piece-by-piece and angering people at every step.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • hawkeyel
    hawkeyel Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    niadan said:

    @gabrieldourden

    You are completely right. We truely need a "State of the Game" blog post on where these changes are going. This would at least give the community an idea of why and where we are headed. My character is like an old classic car that I am constantly tweeking, but it is hard to properly plan those tweeks when change seems to be the norm and very frequent. I do not mind the change part, as long as I know where it is headed, and feel like it is proactive instead of reactive. The reason this looks reactive is that we just shuffled stats around for the new arp cap, and now this bonding nerf is on the horizon. Next we will be hit by a power share rework, causing another round of angst followed by a level cap increase...lol. (sry just venting).

    You would think this would not be to much to ask.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234
    gromovnipljesak#8234 Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    Meanwhile I'm trying to give the game a chance by grinding for the +5 dino ring. Killed dozens and dozens of hunts that are supposed to drop it (KoS drops all rings for some HAMSTER reason), and I literally only got the +2 dino ring. So this game treats me like HAMSTER usually, and now this? HAMSTER this HAMSTER, son.
  • eliybeats
    eliybeats Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    > @santralafax said:
    > Rather than ranting on an on, I now just go through this thread once a day to see what new words the devs have. I'm still waiting.

    Ha. You and me both
  • mat44444
    mat44444 Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    Exactly the comment above - basically the groups (players) I know will be limited to running ETOS, while the likes of FBI/MSP/TONG may as well just not be in the game. Then you also have the fact that upgrade stones are lock behind unplayable content - So big nerf to toons, big nerf to content - inability to upgrade; what the points in playing?

    As I said before - it NW chat forum to catch up on friends
  • polarp178
    polarp178 Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    polarp178 said:

    > darthtzarr said:

    As implemented on preview, it seems to not exactly be cooldown=duration like stated in the above dev post. It is, but there is a new mechanic at play. When bondings proc it gives a few seconds (or attacks) where the companion is allowed to proc bondings repeatedly for 3-8 seconds (about 3 attacks). This should remove some of that headache compared to a straight cooldown=duration, but is still obviously worse than the live version.



    > @dupeks said:

    > How interesting, thank you for sharing.

    >

    > @noworries#8859 Can we get an official statement on the intended proc behavior for the new and improved bondings? In general, having the stats "snapshotted" roughly every 15 seconds is a confusing mechanic. Is it intended to stay this way? Are there concerns with restoring the behavior that allowed bonding stones to be refreshed before their duration elapses?





    Could we get a word on current preview bonding proc and refresh behaviors please?

    What's the intention of this frustrating behavior? Right now on preview, power sharing is extremely unreliable. You need to sneak in both BoB and AA before companion finishes 1st round of attack(1-2 sec window with a sellsword), or else you need to wait 30 sec for the refresh to try again.
  • gabrieldourden
    gabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    > @spideymt said:
    > Let's be honest, do we need damage in billions in dungeons? Are we happy about trivializing the second boss in TONG by DC power-spamming, so that you don't have to dodge or care about the dwarves? Are we happy about FBI bosses going down in seconds?
    >
    > Lets be honest:
    > Powersharing has nothing to do with dwarfes in TONG and....
    > this description from you is NOT the majority! The majority is struggling with hard fights and hours in FBI/MSP/TONG. I never understood why devs and a lot players thinks that overpowered grps running 15 minutes FBI and 25mites TONG are the standard in NW.
    > So the 5-6% absolutely BIS players will deal with all that dumb nerfs and still can do smooth runs, but the majority cant do that.
    > Its getting harder and harder for them. "Great job, NW"!!!!

    I said DC-power spamming, not power-sharing. Namely spamming Astral Shield, as it happened before with Anointed Army in MSVA

    Content will have to be adjusted for sure. That's why a State of the Game would be really good to have.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • spideymt
    spideymt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 710 Arc User




    I said DC-power spamming, not power-sharing. Namely spamming Astral Shield, as it happened before with Anointed Army in MSVA

    My fault. Sry. But also power spamming has nothing to do with dwarfs.

  • ultimatefgt123
    ultimatefgt123 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 96 Arc User
    45 pages now... where's the dev acknowledgement?
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    destiny doesn't have anything to grind for atm other than at the beginning of the week. lol. even so. even though I don't have any other gripping daily games to play I find myself just not wanting to play neverwinter. it used to be obsessive. it's all gone. will to log in.. missing. in the past changes even if I was pissed I'd still obsessively log on. I'm logging on once every other day or so maybe for keys. I can't even be bothered wiht that now. I thought it was a temporary quit for me but Im beginning to think i'm honestly done here.

    yes yes this will be banished to the depths.. but really I hope the devs are reading these because for every one posted another 20 are silently just doing it.
  • rickcase276
    rickcase276 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,399 Arc User
    Its on page 32. That is probably the only one that is going to happen.
  • dukeguard#8158
    dukeguard#8158 Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    Almost nobody on my friends list is playing this game. I'm just logging in to claim keys that's it. When another old mmo launches on ps4 I'm heading over there. It's pointless putting time into this game there's no progress at the end of the tunnel. This game is getting too expensive for my taste.
  • eliybeats
    eliybeats Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    > @tjajd1 said:
    > next nerf will be game client cant open,NW nolonger exists

    Lol! Paint.exe will open instead
  • gromovnipljesak#8234
    gromovnipljesak#8234 Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User

    This is the only feedback page that has 40+ page with players putting in their suggestions and devs are still ignoring some really good suggestions here.

    Still not seeing a very good reason to nerf bonding except more money grab from players.

    Also just a shower thought, if devs wants to put the bonding stones at the same level with other runestones, can we have the bonding stones drop on regular mobs also?

    EXACTLY. Bondings are an item you grind or pay for. Not a random drop from an epic chest. There's a reason one R12 bonding was 3.5-4.1m AD
  • treesclimber
    treesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    @gabrieldourden


    1) High end content will become harder.

    2) People will start to focus on the meta even more than today in order to do TONG, as progress is gated behind it

    3) More people will feel excluded, especially those playing non-meta classes (TR, SW,..)

    4) Bondings will still be the meta so no change on that side

    1: I did the math, endgame players that change straight from r12 to r14 in all slots will get around the same stats that will eventually become more visible.
    2: True;
    3;Maybe true in endgame, i have no way to prove it but not for started since they'll be receiving a great punch up in stats that they can afford.
    4. Not true, if loadouts with companions becomes a thing some people will run augments for trash and tanks will most likelly change to empowered runestones in defense slots since only at 400k HP profane become better.

    1 thing i totally agree with you is those questions, if devs had answer them in the begging it would solve lots of complication.