A full DPS GWF is as squishy as they come. The more crit and power you exchange for defense, lifesteal and deflect, the tankier you become. We do not have a dodge, or a shield. So, try again. Take your BIS DPS GWF into TonG solo, and see how long you survive going glass cannon.
A full DPS GWF a destroyer one,is more tanky than any striekr in game,cause of the broekn way the Unstoppable works,after mod6 rework. More damage you do ,more determination .So it makes you tankier the more damage you do.Add to that that faster att wiils =more LS procs and you have a problem. Exchange for defense? Steely defense says hi! " Grants power equal to your 20% of your defense". Disciple of war says hi! " Grants you power equal to 25% of your armpen and recovery" free stats everywhere....
You have a "dodge" it is called sprint and it has extra free 30% Dr since mod6.(and the epic whinning of GWF community to Genteleman Crush back then).
tong solo?Why has anyone done tong solo?comparison is moot
i am glad you brought into the light the roles of classes thing.Conq Gf has already being balanced since mod10.On the other hand your class evades-through endless noah arks type cataclysm crying -the long waited rebalance.
@armadeonx no, I meant that a fully dps specced GF is very squishy and depends on paladins to do the actual tanking and that while doing so, the paladin can hdps as well + buffing the team, you should do the comparison actually as you don't seem to aware of the massive survability differences between conqueror GF and Justice Paladin and the latter can still hdps and buff like a champion, you see the GF as overpowered but the OP as balanced even though the latter as per overall perfomance and utility blows the former out of the water. You seem quite biased against GF as usual.
in T3 content the only role GF gets is Tank or Support. In the current 4 Support 1 DPS meta you will never see 4 Support and a DPS GF as main dps.
Even a 'DPS GF' is actually just support. Its there to provide ITF and Commanders Strike Buffs, and Mark and Enforced Threat Debuffs, any DPS it brings is marginal to that of the Main DPS and any use of other DPS powers that may push the GF higher up the lolgiver chart comes at a reduction in overall group dps and is a sub-optimal choice unless you are purposefully trying to bait forum outrage into new subscriptions for your Youtube channel.
The one time it gets to use Knights challenge is TONG 2nd boss, any other time is a poor choice that will come at the cost of lower overall grp dps and more than likely end the GF in a quick death to boot.
Making GF a tank again, by toning down its damage, giving it more utility tools and maybe more survivability, will not kill GF. Instead, it will get rid of the many many FoTM GFs who are here defending and/or denying its brokenness. They can go back to playing DPS classes and let others, who want to play as a tank, make GF great again.
I have 1 question. Do you know what happens in a group when you take a GF's damage away?
0
jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
Making GF a tank again, by toning down its damage, giving it more utility tools and maybe more survivability, will not kill GF. Instead, it will get rid of the many many FoTM GFs who are here defending and/or denying its brokenness. They can go back to playing DPS classes and let others, who want to play as a tank, make GF great again.
I have 1 question. Do you know what happens in a group when you take a GF's damage away?
You have a tank, that actually plays GF to be a tank?
I have 3 GF's that play tank as tank, even my main is at best a hybrid dps who has gone back to using an augment because with the bonding changes I no longer care to chase BiS anymore, it's not even remotely fun. (Don;t ask for a good deal on my R12 Bondings, they sold within 5 minutes on AH :P).
Now, pls answer the question.
EDIT: Ok will update this post.
I don't mind if you want to argue that tanks should tank and nothing else. Personally I love tanking I'm good with it.
I would just like to know if you actually understand what happens in group content when you remove a GF's ability to do damage.
If you do not understand the inevitable consequences of a straight damage nerf will have on the class and on the class mechanics of most, but especially, high end group content, I will have to assume the devs and players that read this forum have better time with which to engage with amongst each other, rather than waste time on another simple nerf thread by someone who clearly does not have the necessary class knowledge with which to use as a platform.
GF will be just fine without HDPS. Right now it can outdamage all Striker classes. That is just stupid, for a Defender/Controller.
So your answer is no, you do not understand the fundamental mechanic of why a GF needs to be able to do damage.
Can you at least answer me why the following character will be unable to tank any group content should damage be radically reduced so a handful of players on the entire server can no longer HDPS.
GF will be just fine without HDPS. Right now it can outdamage all Striker classes. That is just stupid, for a Defender/Controller.
So your answer is no, you do not understand the fundamental mechanic of why a GF needs to be able to do damage.
Can you at least answer me why the following character will be unable to tank any group content should damage be radically reduced so a handful of players on the entire server can no longer HDPS.
You have a tank, that actually plays GF to be a tank? I already said make KC a hard taunt. Heck, SW and CW have more threat than OP and GF, for real. This is a rework thread, of course there needs to be a rework, not a flat nerf. I am not like the GFs, that just want flat nerfs to other classes, so they are the only viable class. --Quit trying to be funny, taunts can be added to the class to give it threat. DPS classes can have threat nerfed.
Before I post again, I'd like to point you to your profile, you have exactly 666 Disagrees
3
jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
in all fairness you probably should list the gf build types pros and cons the "tanky" one and the "dps" one they all dont have such high blocking DR do they ? there must be some weakness or HAMSTER in the armor lolz also might want to break down pvp gf vs pve gf or are they the same build as well ?
maybe pick a power so we can upvote it as over powered : D so the gfs get one "adjusted" just like the Tr courage breaker did...HAMSTER for tat as they say
I vote for gf prones respecting cc immunity / maybe toned down
The main overpowered power is Bullcharge. It needs to be a stun instead of a prone. It even gives 50% DR, like wait whut? Second is Knight's Challenge, it should be removed and replaced with a type of hard taunt. I think the problems are more of a feat and weapon damage thing though.
GF will be just fine without HDPS. Right now it can outdamage all Striker classes. That is just stupid, for a Defender/Controller.
So your answer is no, you do not understand the fundamental mechanic of why a GF needs to be able to do damage.
Can you at least answer me why the following character will be unable to tank any group content should damage be radically reduced so a handful of players on the entire server can no longer HDPS.
You have a tank, that actually plays GF to be a tank? I already said make KC a hard taunt. Heck, SW and CW have more threat than OP and GF, for real. This is a rework thread, of course there needs to be a rework, not a flat nerf. I am not like the GFs, that just want flat nerfs to other classes, so they are the only viable class. --Quit trying to be funny, taunts can be added to the class to give it threat. DPS classes can have threat nerfed. But, it seems like you are saying GF could not tank before the insane Mod 6 weapon damage increase, that is not true, I tanked on my GF just fine, as Protector.
Ok so what you propose is that GF's in group content is making KC a Hard Taunt. Which encounter out of the 3 we are allowed to use would you replace, Enforced Threat, KV or ITF? I assume you meant to include Enforced Threat should be a Hard Taunt aswell?
What do you suggest the cooldown on KC (and Enforced Threat) should be for a GF that has little to no damage threat?
What happens when a groups Hate takes over an X second Hard Taunt and I have to wait several seconds for an encounter to become available again?
How do you propose content such as SKT, maybe RD but definitely Chult be handled by a character that has no innate ability to do damage under your proposals to limit a handful of players with the resources and expertise in the game to create HDPS GF's?. Or do you propose that harder Campaigns should be skipped or only run with other players.
Let's take an hypothetical look in the future, and your crusade would be successfull, bc the devs are such impressed about your high posting numbers in the forum and they start to think: "Hey this guy must have the best insight of the game, more than we have have, bc he is posting 23.5h/day, (10 minutes sleep, 10 minutes for something to eat and 10 minutes play time), so he must speak the truth."
So whats next for you?
Even IF the devs make an rework/overlook on my class in PvE and bring back the Tr as Over the Top Single Target Dps, and no other class are able to beat them, i bet you would be the first, ranting about that.
Even IF the devs make an rework/overlook on the SW with faster Animations, a little tweak her and an little tweak there, so that this class is an more than an viable option as dps again, i bet you would be the first, ranting about that.
Even IF the devs make an rework/overlook on CW (which is for me not in that bad shape), i bet you would be the first, ranting about that.
Even IF the devs "nerf" some "meta groups compositions", what would it lead to?
Some classes are then in that bad shape, some are now and i could still remember the time like Mod 4 and the so called "Kindergarden Mod 5", when noone where searching for an Tank, Dc (if the party was able to outgear the content).
Is it that what you want back?
Are you tired, to wait for an Tank class/Heal Class in the queue? Are you tired, to post every 10 seconds in the PE or lfg chat begging for an Gf/Dc, meanwhile other dps classes do the same and you start thinking, "Hell no, if these classes were not neccessary anymore i could invite some dps classes and try to start the run."
Sorry to say, but i really can't understand your behavior.
You say: " A Gf should be an Tank, nothing more."
I say: "Yes maybe, up to an point, when it is not neccessary anymore."
For me it depends of the knowledge of each class, the insight of game mechaniks, experience and gear.
Are all of them (or most) has reached an specific point, there is no need anymore to go as Dc as full heal, there is no need to be an defensive Gf, and that is the point (in my opinion), when "support classes" could try, if there are other ways to play the class, such as buff/debuff/dps.
3
jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
This class is broken and overpowered. It had been for a while, but powercreep and design flaws have skyrocketed it to levels beyond GF's intended design. The class can buff itself and others, while also dealing out insane levels of damage and having an 80% Reduced Incoming Damage shield. It has a daily that heals it. It fills every role at once, except healer. Other classes have to sacrifice damage for survivability, GF just has to press Shift. With high stamina, this shield can almost always be up. As soon as you approach, SMASH, you are dead. Then it goes back behind its shield. In PVE, it can match all DPS classes. A tank that is top tier DPS, that is absurd on its face. Fix this mess, make GF a tank again.
Well, the class is apprently broken and too powerful.
- He doesn't like that a handful of players can do insane damage with GF.
- He doesn't like that GF's have a shield as it reduces too much damage.
- He doesn't like our buffs.
- He thinks we have the potential to have too much stamina.
- He doesn't like our Dailies. I mean, he doesn;t like Fighter's Recovery which he says can be used to instantly heal a GF using it so I assume he doesn't like Villain's Menace because it gives a "massive" damage buff + 100% CC Immunity. If we can spam Fighter's Recovery then we can spam Villain's Menace.
I don't think he wants GF nerfed, more like removed.
---
I'll post again listing all of our buffs in a minute so he can tell us why he believes our buffs should be included in any nerf he proposes.
2
jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
in all fairness you probably should list the gf build types pros and cons the "tanky" one and the "dps" one they all dont have such high blocking DR do they ? there must be some weakness or HAMSTER in the armor lolz also might want to break down pvp gf vs pve gf or are they the same build as well ?
maybe pick a power so we can upvote it as over powered : D so the gfs get one "adjusted" just like the Tr courage breaker did...HAMSTER for tat as they say
I vote for gf prones respecting cc immunity / maybe toned down
The main overpowered power is Bullcharge. It needs to be a stun instead of a prone. It even gives 50% DR, like wait whut? Second is Knight's Challenge, it should be removed and replaced with a type of hard taunt. I think the problems are more of a feat and weapon damage thing though.
GF will be just fine without HDPS. Right now it can outdamage all Striker classes. That is just stupid, for a Defender/Controller.
So your answer is no, you do not understand the fundamental mechanic of why a GF needs to be able to do damage.
Can you at least answer me why the following character will be unable to tank any group content should damage be radically reduced so a handful of players on the entire server can no longer HDPS.
You have a tank, that actually plays GF to be a tank? I already said make KC a hard taunt. Heck, SW and CW have more threat than OP and GF, for real. This is a rework thread, of course there needs to be a rework, not a flat nerf. I am not like the GFs, that just want flat nerfs to other classes, so they are the only viable class. --Quit trying to be funny, taunts can be added to the class to give it threat. DPS classes can have threat nerfed. But, it seems like you are saying GF could not tank before the insane Mod 6 weapon damage increase, that is not true, I tanked on my GF just fine, as Protector.
Ok so what you propose is that GF's in group content is making KC a Hard Taunt. Which encounter out of the 3 we are allowed to use would you replace, Enforced Threat, KV or ITF? I assume you meant to include Enforced Threat should be a Hard Taunt aswell?
What do you suggest the cooldown on KC (and Enforced Threat) should be for a GF that has little to no damage threat?
What happens when a groups Hate takes over an X second Hard Taunt and I have to wait several seconds for an encounter to become available again?
How do you propose content such as SKT, maybe RD but definitely Chult be handled by a character that has no innate ability to do damage under your proposals to limit a handful of players with the resources and expertise in the game to create HDPS GF's?. Or do you propose that harder Campaigns should be skipped or only run with other players.
You guys are REALLY scared. I am glad. It means that I am correct. Make GF a tank again is a success. Maybe you will think twice about trying to get other classes nerfed. When you are the target, it doesn't feel very good, does it?
I'm still waiting for my answer pls.
2
jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
edited September 2017
GF's have a Buff Tree, Tactitian, but it's so unbelievably useless I cringe every time I hear someone ask for a buff GF.
Tactian have available to themselves 2 buffs which Prots and Conc Capstones cannot have access to.
Inspiring Leader: 5% ITF dam buff.
Martial MAstery Capstone: Dubious AP Gain.
Rousing Speech is Tier 3 and as such can be used easily with Conc (many of it's feats are trash anyway) and with a little sacrifice those with Prot capstone. It gives 5% AP gain to the party.
Crushing Pin is a Tier 1 Tactitian feat giving 10% debuff that can be a very good debuff if the GF invests in it. To get the most out of it, you must run Knight Valor, Guarded Assault and have the OH Gauarded Assault enabled.
I'm not sure why, if this is the debuff he most dislikes, noone has more that 2 class features, ideally a DPS GF would run Combat Superiority and Steel Grace, since although it is possible to hit 100% crit, GF's in general are crit starved, even with the GF Conc Capstone. Only people hitting 100% crit in PvE without Steel Grace would have to be absolutely BiS and that means R12 everything and R12 bondings pet.
---
That's it feat wise, everything else is pretty much a self buff, self mob debuff.
---
All GF's have Mark which is incredible which increases damage against a target and grants everyone attacking it their CA + CHA bonuses. GWF marks work in the same manner, also, GWF Daring shout, unlike Enforced Threat, is not removed from targets if they damage the GWF who cast it.
Every GF has access to ITF, a damage buff for everyone in the party, including the GF casting it.
Comander's Strike, buffs the damage of everyone in the party on their next encounter use.
---
That's all I can think of at 6am.
1
jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
That is all you guys can do, insult and try to belittle. You have no rational reason that GF should do such high damage as a tank class, so now you are making them up. This makes me stronger, makes me more determined to see this campaign through. Make GF a Tank again is not going anywhere. You can't stop the train, full steam ahead!
@armadeonx no, I meant that a fully dps specced GF is very squishy and depends on paladins to do the actual tanking and that while doing so, the paladin can hdps as well + buffing the team, you should do the comparison actually as you don't seem to aware of the massive survability differences between conqueror GF and Justice Paladin and the latter can still hdps and buff like a champion, you see the GF as overpowered but the OP as balanced even though the latter as per overall perfomance and utility blows the former out of the water. You seem quite biased against GF as usual.
You did actually read my first line didn't you? Here it is again: "lol actually I do, my GF runs a conqueror build when soloing, he can't take nearly as much damage as my OP. I really don't need to do a comparison to learn that."
Pallies speccing for DPS is the required meta because it improves team buffs, threat & survivability. Pally buffing is less than a DC (of either path) or MoF so I wouldn't get too carried away with the exaggerations and as I stated on numerous previous occasions, a Pally typically does 40-70% of the DPS of a striker of equal IL.
You also completely ignored my point that only a BiS OP has very high buffing capability - and it is only fully effective when buffing other BiS players whereas a GF can do this to full effect as soon as they hit L70 & is not scaled to the recipients gear.
I know this goes against your (stated) goal of getting (yet) another round of nerfs for the OP as well as deflecting the debate away from the GF.
In response to your last comment of "You seem quite biased against GF as usual." I would remind you of my previous summary:
"Here's the thing though, I am actually pretty cool with where the GF is in general. It is pretty well balanced in most cases - but I stand by the point that when specifically built as a dps, it's damage multipliers take it into the realms of a Striker class. This is why I listed them."
So yeah, you can hype the pally and play down the GF all you like. You can take my words out of context and imply meaning where I gave none, or just simply ignore any valid observations by insinuating "but the pally is an immortal striker!". But all of these tactics just avoid the basic question: Should GFs be able to spec to GWF level DPS?.
I know you won't address the point seriously as any attempt I've made to debate reasonably has met with obscuring facts & diversion.
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1
jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
@armadeonx no, I meant that a fully dps specced GF is very squishy and depends on paladins to do the actual tanking and that while doing so, the paladin can hdps as well + buffing the team, you should do the comparison actually as you don't seem to aware of the massive survability differences between conqueror GF and Justice Paladin and the latter can still hdps and buff like a champion, you see the GF as overpowered but the OP as balanced even though the latter as per overall perfomance and utility blows the former out of the water. You seem quite biased against GF as usual.
You did actually read my first line didn't you? Here it is again: "lol actually I do, my GF runs a conqueror build when soloing, he can't take nearly as much damage as my OP. I really don't need to do a comparison to learn that."
Pallies speccing for DPS is the required meta because it improves team buffs, threat & survivability. Pally buffing is less than a DC (of either path) or MoF so I wouldn't get too carried away with the exaggerations and as I stated on numerous previous occasions, a Pally typically does 40-70% of the DPS of a striker of equal IL.
You also completely ignored my point that only a BiS OP has very high buffing capability - and it is only fully effective when buffing other BiS players whereas a GF can do this to full effect as soon as they hit L70 & is not scaled to the recipients gear.
I know this goes against your (stated) goal of getting (yet) another round of nerfs for the OP as well as deflecting the debate away from the GF.
In response to your last comment of "You seem quite biased against GF as usual." I would remind you of my previous summary:
"Here's the thing though, I am actually pretty cool with where the GF is in general. It is pretty well balanced in most cases - but I stand by the point that when specifically built as a dps, it's damage multipliers take it into the realms of a Striker class. This is why I listed them."
So yeah, you can hype the pally and play down the GF all you like. You can take my words out of context and imply meaning where I gave none, or just simply ignore any valid observations by insinuating "but the pally is an immortal striker!". But all of these tactics just avoid the basic question: Should GFs be able to spec to GWF level DPS?.
I know you won't address the point seriously as any attempt I've made to debate reasonably has met with obscuring facts & diversion.
I have no issues with Pallies other than they have Hard Taunts and increased survivability with Temp Hit Points. On the flip side, GF has neither of those things but does have the capacity to do more damage.
I would argue that comparing OP and GF would be like comparing apples and oranges.
0
jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
That is all you guys can do, insult and try to belittle.
Well, before you leave this thread you have stated you know what is broken with GF and how to fix it but you are neglecting any details on how you would fix it and any you do give just warrant more questions. An answer to my last question would be appreciated.
Comments
More damage you do ,more determination .So it makes you tankier the more damage you do.Add to that that faster att wiils =more LS procs and you have a problem.
Exchange for defense?
Disciple of war says hi! " Grants you power equal to 25% of your armpen and recovery" free stats everywhere....
You have a "dodge" it is called sprint and it has extra free 30% Dr since mod6.(and the epic whinning of GWF community to Genteleman Crush back then).
tong solo?Why has anyone done tong solo?comparison is moot
i am glad you brought into the light the roles of classes thing.Conq Gf has already being balanced since mod10.On the other hand your class evades-through endless noah arks type cataclysm crying -the long waited rebalance.
Even a 'DPS GF' is actually just support. Its there to provide ITF and Commanders Strike Buffs, and Mark and Enforced Threat Debuffs, any DPS it brings is marginal to that of the Main DPS and any use of other DPS powers that may push the GF higher up the lolgiver chart comes at a reduction in overall group dps and is a sub-optimal choice unless you are purposefully trying to bait forum outrage into new subscriptions for your Youtube channel.
The one time it gets to use Knights challenge is TONG 2nd boss, any other time is a poor choice that will come at the cost of lower overall grp dps and more than likely end the GF in a quick death to boot.
Do you know what happens in a group when you take a GF's damage away?
Now, pls answer the question.
EDIT:
Ok will update this post.
I don't mind if you want to argue that tanks should tank and nothing else. Personally I love tanking I'm good with it.
I would just like to know if you actually understand what happens in group content when you remove a GF's ability to do damage.
If you do not understand the inevitable consequences of a straight damage nerf will have on the class and on the class mechanics of most, but especially, high end group content, I will have to assume the devs and players that read this forum have better time with which to engage with amongst each other, rather than waste time on another simple nerf thread by someone who clearly does not have the necessary class knowledge with which to use as a platform.
Can you at least answer me why the following character will be unable to tank any group content should damage be radically reduced so a handful of players on the entire server can no longer HDPS.
https://imgur.com/a/remO2
https://imgur.com/a/XjyhU
Ok so what you propose is that GF's in group content is making KC a Hard Taunt. Which encounter out of the 3 we are allowed to use would you replace, Enforced Threat, KV or ITF? I assume you meant to include Enforced Threat should be a Hard Taunt aswell?
What do you suggest the cooldown on KC (and Enforced Threat) should be for a GF that has little to no damage threat?
What happens when a groups Hate takes over an X second Hard Taunt and I have to wait several seconds for an encounter to become available again?
How do you propose content such as SKT, maybe RD but definitely Chult be handled by a character that has no innate ability to do damage under your proposals to limit a handful of players with the resources and expertise in the game to create HDPS GF's?. Or do you propose that harder Campaigns should be skipped or only run with other players.
I thought nerf threads arent allowed on the forums?
Let's take an hypothetical look in the future, and your crusade would be successfull, bc the devs are such impressed about your high posting numbers in the forum and they start to think: "Hey this guy must have the best insight of the game, more than we have have, bc he is posting 23.5h/day, (10 minutes sleep, 10 minutes for something to eat and 10 minutes play time), so he must speak the truth."
So whats next for you?
Even IF the devs make an rework/overlook on my class in PvE and bring back the Tr as Over the Top Single Target Dps, and no other class are able to beat them, i bet you would be the first, ranting about that.
Even IF the devs make an rework/overlook on the SW with faster Animations, a little tweak her and an little tweak there, so that this class is an more than an viable option as dps again, i bet you would be the first, ranting about that.
Even IF the devs make an rework/overlook on CW (which is for me not in that bad shape), i bet you would be the first, ranting about that.
Even IF the devs "nerf" some "meta groups compositions", what would it lead to?
Some classes are then in that bad shape, some are now and i could still remember the time like Mod 4 and the so called "Kindergarden Mod 5", when noone where searching for an Tank, Dc (if the party was able to outgear the content).
Is it that what you want back?
Are you tired, to wait for an Tank class/Heal Class in the queue?
Are you tired, to post every 10 seconds in the PE or lfg chat begging for an Gf/Dc, meanwhile other dps classes do the same and you start thinking, "Hell no, if these classes were not neccessary anymore i could invite some dps classes and try to start the run."
Sorry to say, but i really can't understand your behavior.
You say: " A Gf should be an Tank, nothing more."
I say: "Yes maybe, up to an point, when it is not neccessary anymore."
For me it depends of the knowledge of each class, the insight of game mechaniks, experience and gear.
Are all of them (or most) has reached an specific point, there is no need anymore to go as Dc as full heal, there is no need to be an defensive Gf, and that is the point (in my opinion), when "support classes" could try, if there are other ways to play the class, such as buff/debuff/dps.
- He doesn't like that a handful of players can do insane damage with GF.
- He doesn't like that GF's have a shield as it reduces too much damage.
- He doesn't like our buffs.
- He thinks we have the potential to have too much stamina.
- He doesn't like our Dailies. I mean, he doesn;t like Fighter's Recovery which he says can be used to instantly heal a GF using it so I assume he doesn't like Villain's Menace because it gives a "massive" damage buff + 100% CC Immunity. If we can spam Fighter's Recovery then we can spam Villain's Menace.
I don't think he wants GF nerfed, more like removed.
---
I'll post again listing all of our buffs in a minute so he can tell us why he believes our buffs should be included in any nerf he proposes.
Tactian have available to themselves 2 buffs which Prots and Conc Capstones cannot have access to.
Inspiring Leader: 5% ITF dam buff.
Martial MAstery Capstone: Dubious AP Gain.
Rousing Speech is Tier 3 and as such can be used easily with Conc (many of it's feats are trash anyway) and with a little sacrifice those with Prot capstone. It gives 5% AP gain to the party.
Crushing Pin is a Tier 1 Tactitian feat giving 10% debuff that can be a very good debuff if the GF invests in it. To get the most out of it, you must run Knight Valor, Guarded Assault and have the OH Gauarded Assault enabled.
I'm not sure why, if this is the debuff he most dislikes, noone has more that 2 class features, ideally a DPS GF would run Combat Superiority and Steel Grace, since although it is possible to hit 100% crit, GF's in general are crit starved, even with the GF Conc Capstone. Only people hitting 100% crit in PvE without Steel Grace would have to be absolutely BiS and that means R12 everything and R12 bondings pet.
---
That's it feat wise, everything else is pretty much a self buff, self mob debuff.
---
All GF's have Mark which is incredible which increases damage against a target and grants everyone attacking it their CA + CHA bonuses. GWF marks work in the same manner, also, GWF Daring shout, unlike Enforced Threat, is not removed from targets if they damage the GWF who cast it.
Every GF has access to ITF, a damage buff for everyone in the party, including the GF casting it.
Comander's Strike, buffs the damage of everyone in the party on their next encounter use.
---
That's all I can think of at 6am.
Pallies speccing for DPS is the required meta because it improves team buffs, threat & survivability. Pally buffing is less than a DC (of either path) or MoF so I wouldn't get too carried away with the exaggerations and as I stated on numerous previous occasions, a Pally typically does 40-70% of the DPS of a striker of equal IL.
You also completely ignored my point that only a BiS OP has very high buffing capability - and it is only fully effective when buffing other BiS players whereas a GF can do this to full effect as soon as they hit L70 & is not scaled to the recipients gear.
I know this goes against your (stated) goal of getting (yet) another round of nerfs for the OP as well as deflecting the debate away from the GF.
In response to your last comment of "You seem quite biased against GF as usual." I would remind you of my previous summary:
"Here's the thing though, I am actually pretty cool with where the GF is in general. It is pretty well balanced in most cases - but I stand by the point that when specifically built as a dps, it's damage multipliers take it into the realms of a Striker class. This is why I listed them."
So yeah, you can hype the pally and play down the GF all you like. You can take my words out of context and imply meaning where I gave none, or just simply ignore any valid observations by insinuating "but the pally is an immortal striker!". But all of these tactics just avoid the basic question: Should GFs be able to spec to GWF level DPS?.
I know you won't address the point seriously as any attempt I've made to debate reasonably has met with obscuring facts & diversion.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
I would argue that comparing OP and GF would be like comparing apples and oranges.