@terramak It appears that Rank 13 and Rank 14 Quartermaster enchants are still janky and are giving the worst quality RP when opening bags(spoils/abandoned/etc). Rank's 12 are still dropping R6 enchants (lower ranks probably are unchanged as well) so I'm assuming you guys haven't gotten around to changing the code to update Quartermasters to the new RP system. Just figured I'd at least mention this so it gets added to the whiteboard, if its not there already.
Also, the Primal chestpiece for Trickster Rogue still has less overall stat points than all other Primal chestpieces. I know that isn't a high priority, especially since most TR's should be going for Rex Amiculum, but thats besides the point. *Starts chanting* "Equal stats for equal gear, Equal stats for equal gear!" (same as above, just making sure you aware so it gets put on a to-do list at some point)
Good work (for the most part) so far for 12B, keep it up.
p.s. WTB weapon enchant proc's on Smokebomb and PotB, offering 3 kidneys. (the aforementioned kidneys may or may not be human, I am not at liberty to say)
Neverwinter Module 6: The only MMO expansion in the history of MMO's to remove more content than it added.
I noticed the GWF Steel Blitz/Weapon Master's Strike/Lightning bug is still present. I am hoping this is fixed before 12b goes live. It is still being abused heavily. There is the same bug with Steel Blitz/Wicked Strike/Bilethorn as well, but nobody uses Wicked Strike.
Uhm, not sure about what the bug is, but I have just tested on preview and Steel Blitz doesn't proc lightning at all
That is not how you test it. You test it with Sure Strike vs WMS. WMS causes SB to proc on outside targets that are hit with Lightning Arc. This is a known bug. It is why you see so many GWFs using SB and the SB offhand feature with Lightning.
Good to know, I was testing hitting all three targets with WMS, and this way it seems there is no bug. I'll test hitting only a few targets leaving some outside of WMS arc.
When using SS it seems that SB only procs from SS. When using WMS it seems that SB procs from everything except lightning arc.
So the question is, should it proc only from skills or from every damage source. Tooltip states "Every time you damage and enemy, you have a 25% chance...".
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andorrabellMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 437Arc User
@dupeks I can't speak for the team members making these changes, but given they were marked as experimental changes, I'd imagine they'd be interested in hearing continuing feedback about these changes. Thanks for adding your voice here!
@jaime4312#3760 I'll keep an eye out for any changes in the pre-M12b patch notes and see if the change was intentional. Regardless, your feedback about the viability of Scourge Warlocks (before and after this change) is still valid and worthwhile, whether or not this was an intended change. So thank you for calling it out.
Edit: Players who found out about OBC proc rate being cut by half mentioned that the change does not appear on patch notes.
Thanks for the answer, sir. The viability of the Scourge Warlock has been compromised greatly because of fixes to bugs whereby the class was able to deal competitive dps, I am talking about mod 10 of course, we all know mod 9 Murderous Flames was extremely broken and that needed to be fixed. Anyway, what was wrong about mod 10 dps wasn't its potential but how the SW dealt it (TC not WAI by scaling with power and other things) so in mod mod 10.5 it go fixed but! here comes the big but... there was no compensation for that change... the outcome? As per @thefabricant 's calculations, top tier SW's lost up to 40% of their dps so it gutted a lot of the class' damage potentiall, it affected all good players and the Hellbringer paragon took a heavy blow in dps. @tom#6998 and @fernuu (they are 2 of the most powerful Scourge Warlocks in the game) tested the changes on preview by running dungeons and comfirmed Sharp's calculations were right. If any of you 3 can comment on this that would be really appreciated, especially you, Sharpedge.
After the mod 10.5 TC fix that gutted a lot of the class' dps, there have been more nerfs + other classes got buffs (like power changes and/or enchantments rework), because of that, not only does SW underperform vs other striker classes, support classes that are able to HDPS can either give SW a run for its meal or flat out outperform it in certain situations. What purpose does a striker class that can't deal top tier damage serve especially if support classes can match it or beat it at what it is supposed to be its main role?
Sir, here's a screenshot of an ACT log of @tom#6998 which again, is one of the most powerful SWs in the game
There you can see OBC makes up for 15% - 20% of his dps. As good as he is, other classes at BiS level, properly built and played can beat him rather often and it's not because he's bad, it is because of being a Scourge Warlock. With the changes on preview that cut down the OBC proc rate by half, the stimated dps loss for him is 10%, for lower level SWs is greater than that and for low crit templocks can exceed 50%. As you can see, the OBC changes, whether intented or not, further worsen a problem that's already pretty bad hence why the class does need a rework as soon as possible.
As per @tom#6998 feedback (sorry to quote you so much mate, if you can give your feedback that'd be awesome though), the best SW knows (so yeah, more powerful than him) gets outperformed by the best TR he knows and, considering he often runs with top tier players from all classes and is a top one himself, you need to keep that in mind: properly played and built TR > SW.
There you have it, the class that once was the top damage dealer became awfully underpowered, not only loses to other striker classes but hpds support classses can go toe to toe with it or flat out outperform it, it's both baffling and unacceptable. Needless to say, being a SW is not precisely convinient when trying to run endgame content, with most classes offering better dps perfomance, group and queue leaders will pick others instead.
Perhaps, when possible, could you consider starting a thread where you can gather information that can help you see the insane amount of weaknesses and problems the class does have? That way, it'd be much easier for you and/other developers to come up with a proper fix/rework.
All of this. Our class is dead without a rework if/when this change to OBC goes in. I'm glad to at least finally be able to confirm that the devs are aware of what they will be doing to us, but I don't see any option but leaving the class unless a rework happens first or at the same time, as I will be a detriment to any party after this change versus any other competent player.
It for sure should not proc from just certain skills, like WMS with Lightning and Wicked Strike with Bile. Either way, it is bugged. Fixing the OBC on SW, an underperforming class, while keeping a bug on a class, GWF, that does not need this bug to compete makes no sense to me.
By the way, yes, the (hidden) Owlbear Cub change on SW from last patch is present in last patch too. It procs once every two seconds instead of once every second, so yes it does half damage as before for SW. I do hope there is a rework coming so this change makes sense.
It was working that way originally, only one proc per whole Pillar of Power, but they added an official change so Owlbear Cub procced more that once on a few skills, being Pillar of Power one of them.
It was working that way originally, only one proc per whole Pillar of Power, but they added an official change so Owlbear Cub procced more that once on a few skills, being Pillar of Power one of them.
@terramak what about Owlbear Cub companion only proccing half what it does on live? Was that intended or is it just a bug? We SW's are concerned to see our class nerfed nonstop, it has left it behind the rest and it just keeps getting weaker. Numerous posts have been made by me and other SWs regarding the state of the class but every single one of them has been ignored completely, we haven't got any answer whatsoever from you, other devs nor from @kreatyve and @nitocris83 who can forward that to you guys. No plans to rework/fix the class at all? The numerous nerfs you devs put it through have left it awfully underpowered, that does need to be changed.
Did they break something else, then? Because on my OP, out of 100+non-crit Smite's and Templar's Wrath, I only got around a dozen proc's from the owlbear. Just tested this today.
PS - Lostmauth set still doesn't proc on most weapon enchants. 1k+ crit at wills with Trans Lightning, under 20 procs from LM.
Overall, nice list of updates! A couple of thoughts though:
A general thought on the Astral Shield and Courage Breaker changes (which others can judge the quality of much more effectively than I): I've seen this sort of thing frequently where powers are changed for pvp that gimp the pve viability of them. I'm sure you would like to keep powers consistent between modes where you can, but these kind of changes should be isolated to pvp. Splitting more powers' functionality to reduce effectiveness only in pvp would give you much more flexibility without playing whack-a-mole back and forth fixing problems in one mode by creating problems in the other.
Merchant Prince Wakanga O'tamu has cracked down on rooftop runners, and the wards preventing traversal of Port Nyanzaru's pristine buildings have been strengthened to try to counter teleportation and leaping style powers.
I know it's already done, so be it, but why? I've always adored playing NW parkour! These kind of changes over the years just feel kinda mean and stuffy. I mean, I get closing gaps where people can fall into and never get out, but being able to run the roofs or trees or cliffs was something that was really charming to me when I first started playing here.
If nothing else, it just seems like a lot of unnecessary work.
@terramak , please, please, PLEASE remove the sound effect from Shadowclad. Words cannot express how unbelievably annoying it is to be around someone with it on.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
I noticed the GWF Steel Blitz/Weapon Master's Strike/Lightning bug is still present. I am hoping this is fixed before 12b goes live. It is still being abused heavily. There is the same bug with Steel Blitz/Wicked Strike/Bilethorn as well, but nobody uses Wicked Strike.
Uhm, not sure about what the bug is, but I have just tested on preview and Steel Blitz doesn't proc lightning at all
It's not that Steel Blitz procs of the arcs it that it procs twice from the initial hit. Once from the attack and once from the bonus damage from the lightning proc. Your testing methodology was wrong, what you need to do to test it is use Steel Blitz with lighting and with out. Then see if Steel Blitz procs more with than without.
In your initial test you had 304 Steel Blitz strike out of 582 attacks 25% would be 145.5. You had 50% proc because it was also proc'ing off the lightning damage. I belive this result will be the same for any enchant that strikes it's main damage effect as an extra direct attack.
Im usually the one commenting about the state of SW's on these posts, its nice to see more SWs coming forward and finally getting a reply from the devs. Its been way to long now, and with the OBC changes which does account for 10-20% if not more of a warlocks DPS, its seriously time to step up. With OBC we're still close to the lowest DPS if not the lowest, nurf OBC and we won't even compete in the slightest.
Im a 16k SW and I agree with everything said about SWs in this post, being out-dpsed by random 13ks is not right. The amount of effort to get to 16k and a random 13k can beat you. We know you're aware of it now (although its been present since mod10). If it doesn't change soon, might aswell just delete the class from the game, because once these changes go live there'll be no point in playing as a SW.
I am a BIS TR... i am sorry but i am more then tired. I have not touched my character since the bonding nerf announcement. I love this game but all i see for months are nerf to TR PVP capabilities... and no love whatsoever for our PVE life... nerf on the bondings... nerf on our AOE dmg... nerf on barkshield for PVE... like really? that was the only thing allowing me to survive more then 2 seconds beside the GWFs of this world... So now i realise... i have been ''rowing against the current'' for years... outgearing the majority of people just to be a limited 50-70%dmg version of other dps classes... and on top of it all starting soon.. i wont even be able stay alive in PVE anymore... I appologies but i tried to comment on the forum for months now... hoping something would change soon before my broken heart decides to just go far far away and never look back at all that money i spent in here. So i am down to begging for a reply that will give me back some little hope for fairness... TR is super fun to play... the game is super fun to play. But the feeling of uselessness that i have playing my TR just completely turn me off. When i see a GWF tanking a boss while doing 2x my dmg while having the same or even worst gear then me. I got nothing against GWF btw... i just want TR to be relevant.
Trickster Rogue: Courage Breaker now applies a slow for 5 seconds, reduced from 10 seconds.
Slow reduced from 10 to 5s, but how about damage debuff - does it remain for 10s? I sometimes use this skill in PvE to debuff boss when my party lacks survivability, would be sad to see it got nerfed too.
Im usually the one commenting about the state of SW's on these posts, its nice to see more SWs coming forward and finally getting a reply from the devs. Its been way to long now, and with the OBC changes which does account for 10-20% if not more of a warlocks DPS, its seriously time to step up. With OBC we're still close to the lowest DPS if not the lowest, nurf OBC and we won't even compete in the slightest.
Im a 16k SW and I agree with everything said about SWs in this post, being out-dpsed by random 13ks is not right. The amount of effort to get to 16k and a random 13k can beat you. We know you're aware of it now (although its been present since mod10). If it doesn't change soon, might aswell just delete the class from the game, because once these changes go live there'll be no point in playing as a SW.
People play TR still. People will play SW too. I agree, your class needs some love. The TR needs love, too. I have one of each class at level 70 (8 characters). Actively leveled each of them up to level 60, then leveled most of them to 70 through questing. So I am at least familiar with all the classes.
While I do not agree with everything that is happening in NWN development, it is apparent the designers/developers have a plan for the game. As they roll out changes to the game, these changes will have unintentional consequences. Currently, the developers seem to be taking the long term approach to correcting issues. This will create temporary problems, but long term, it should be fine.
If you surround yourself with friends who enjoy playing with you, they don't really care if you are the top or bottom of the paingiver charts. They just enjoy playing with you. The SW was flavor of the month at one time. Now it is not. At some point, it may be flavor of the month again. You should play what you enjoy. My guild and our alliance help each other out. We play what we like and we figure out how to beat the content.
And for this thread...Fey Enchants seem to be dropping gemstones instead of enchants. It is the same RP as before, just in a gemstone wrapper.
Overall I like that they are taking time to improve quality of life issues in PvE and fixing bugs. And I understand that the next mod will be PvP focus hence the need to relook into class balance. I haven't PvP since mod 6 so I'm not really sure what's the favor of the month in term for each class. I am concerned with the Astral Shield nerf and the impact of diminishing effect on Break the Spirit. I'm also concerned that they view 2 DCs in a party as the main source of the meta problem - beside stats transfer from bondings, uncapped dps, huge dps divide between striker and "support" - when the DC multiplier effect is in fact made worse not by DC but by the runaway dps classes. Why not put a cap on dps instead of nerfing DC again and again?
However I'm more interested to know what plan is installed for the Devoted Cleric. What's the roadmap and what type of roles are DC players expected to play, if at all, in PvP? The message sent with DC getting constant nerfs are quite unsettling.
Empowered bonuses for Break the Spirit, Forgemaster's Flame, Sunburst, and Warding Flare are once again properly applied and provide the proper buff / debuff values.
Experimental change: Astral Shield's Empowered bonus no longer reduces the damage taken from attacks by a fixed number.
Experimental change: Astral Shield's Empowered bonus now increases incoming healing by 10% for each stack consumed.
Developer Note: Even after nerfs, Astral Shield continues to be far and away one of the most game-changing powers in PvP. While we still want it to be effective, the flat damage reduction often results in 0-damage hits. This is an experimental attempt to make the power more reasonable in PvP, and prevent it from further trivializing PvE content, while still remaining useful.
Probably with control immunity cleric is a monster in PVP. cause idk how you reached the conclusion DC is THE problem of PVP.
ask any DC that play PVP, he will tell you he heal cause there is no other way. we are not trying to avoid double and triple kills, and i am not sure most clerics are pacifist. righuous DPS is hamstery build for pvp. sure i buff my party damage by 25% but i die in 3 sec.
reduicng heals by addtional 50% and removing AS will effect rightuous as well as healer. allmost every power got heals, every crit heals.
if you want to cahange astral shield at least make it worth something. 1) if its to buff heals, radius should be bigger. 2) give slience for 1 sec per stack. total of 3 sec of only at wills. 3) bring back the early modes of small ticks. heals per stack.
So.... after the TR nation rises up and begs for a fix (not even a power boost just a fix)... People put together pages of well thought out documentation on what it would take to make the class viable.
The Devs respond with ignoring all of that and they get nerfed again.
Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold" Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
Comments
Also, the Primal chestpiece for Trickster Rogue still has less overall stat points than all other Primal chestpieces. I know that isn't a high priority, especially since most TR's should be going for Rex Amiculum, but thats besides the point. *Starts chanting* "Equal stats for equal gear, Equal stats for equal gear!" (same as above, just making sure you aware so it gets put on a to-do list at some point)
Good work (for the most part) so far for 12B, keep it up.
p.s. WTB weapon enchant proc's on Smokebomb and PotB, offering 3 kidneys. (the aforementioned kidneys may or may not be human, I am not at liberty to say)
Good to know, I was testing hitting all three targets with WMS, and this way it seems there is no bug. I'll test hitting only a few targets leaving some outside of WMS arc.
2 targets hit with WMS and two more targets reachable by lightning
1 target hit with Sure Strike and three more targets reachable by lightning
When using SS it seems that SB only procs from SS.
When using WMS it seems that SB procs from everything except lightning arc.
So the question is, should it proc only from skills or from every damage source. Tooltip states "Every time you damage and enemy, you have a 25% chance...".
https://www.theholycrusaders.com/
PS - Lostmauth set still doesn't proc on most weapon enchants. 1k+ crit at wills with Trans Lightning, under 20 procs from LM.
Edit to include the original quote I missed.
A general thought on the Astral Shield and Courage Breaker changes (which others can judge the quality of much more effectively than I): I've seen this sort of thing frequently where powers are changed for pvp that gimp the pve viability of them. I'm sure you would like to keep powers consistent between modes where you can, but these kind of changes should be isolated to pvp. Splitting more powers' functionality to reduce effectiveness only in pvp would give you much more flexibility without playing whack-a-mole back and forth fixing problems in one mode by creating problems in the other.
--- I know it's already done, so be it, but why? I've always adored playing NW parkour! These kind of changes over the years just feel kinda mean and stuffy.
If nothing else, it just seems like a lot of unnecessary work.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
It's not that Steel Blitz procs of the arcs it that it procs twice from the initial hit. Once from the attack and once from the bonus damage from the lightning proc. Your testing methodology was wrong, what you need to do to test it is use Steel Blitz with lighting and with out. Then see if Steel Blitz procs more with than without.
In your initial test you had 304 Steel Blitz strike out of 582 attacks 25% would be 145.5. You had 50% proc because it was also proc'ing off the lightning damage. I belive this result will be the same for any enchant that strikes it's main damage effect as an extra direct attack.
Is the uptime change only for the slow or for the damagedebuff and the powerbuff as well?
Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
Im a 16k SW and I agree with everything said about SWs in this post, being out-dpsed by random 13ks is not right. The amount of effort to get to 16k and a random 13k can beat you. We know you're aware of it now (although its been present since mod10). If it doesn't change soon, might aswell just delete the class from the game, because once these changes go live there'll be no point in playing as a SW.
Slow reduced from 10 to 5s, but how about damage debuff - does it remain for 10s? I sometimes use this skill in PvE to debuff boss when my party lacks survivability, would be sad to see it got nerfed too.
Yes ofc is bound if u post enchantment from wondrous bazaar......
Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
While I do not agree with everything that is happening in NWN development, it is apparent the designers/developers have a plan for the game. As they roll out changes to the game, these changes will have unintentional consequences. Currently, the developers seem to be taking the long term approach to correcting issues. This will create temporary problems, but long term, it should be fine.
If you surround yourself with friends who enjoy playing with you, they don't really care if you are the top or bottom of the paingiver charts. They just enjoy playing with you. The SW was flavor of the month at one time. Now it is not. At some point, it may be flavor of the month again. You should play what you enjoy. My guild and our alliance help each other out. We play what we like and we figure out how to beat the content.
And for this thread...Fey Enchants seem to be dropping gemstones instead of enchants. It is the same RP as before, just in a gemstone wrapper.
However I'm more interested to know what plan is installed for the Devoted Cleric. What's the roadmap and what type of roles are DC players expected to play, if at all, in PvP? The message sent with DC getting constant nerfs are quite unsettling.
Probably with control immunity cleric is a monster in PVP.
cause idk how you reached the conclusion DC is THE problem of PVP.
ask any DC that play PVP, he will tell you he heal cause there is no other way.
we are not trying to avoid double and triple kills, and i am not sure most clerics are pacifist.
righuous DPS is hamstery build for pvp. sure i buff my party damage by 25% but i die in 3 sec.
reduicng heals by addtional 50% and removing AS will effect rightuous as well as healer.
allmost every power got heals, every crit heals.
if you want to cahange astral shield at least make it worth something.
1) if its to buff heals, radius should be bigger.
2) give slience for 1 sec per stack. total of 3 sec of only at wills.
3) bring back the early modes of small ticks. heals per stack.
The Devs respond with ignoring all of that and they get nerfed again.
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP