I gave up on my SW, played it for the last four years and finally got tired of a class that requires so many bandages to be viable. Now I just tank on my GF and hope I dont get bored of that class being that SW is the class that has kept me playing the game this long.
ScyLent PvE GF Main S C Y L E N T PvE DC Alt ScyLent Lux PvE OP Alt Unrepentantgaming.com
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
My HR is currently spec'd as archery and my HB SW still can't compete with it. Damnation got nerfed and the SW buffs weren't enough so the owlbear was the only option to gain back DPS.
Tried out the cub on my TR and really liked the AoE buff for mob clearing at the cost of single target. That's down the toilet as well.
Tired of hoping for fixes and actual content. Was tedious as hell and not fun grinding up 6 chars above 13k with my TR closing that gap. Nerf after unneeded rushed nerf. With this new enchantment grind incoming I can't do it anymore. The game has turned into 90% refinement and 10% content. They went overkill on enchantment ranks. It's just too one minded and boring now. Can't even trust them to deliver on anything other than completely unnecessary BS.
Or they still just dont give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ?
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pyrosorcererMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
@mamalion1234 Yeah, agreed, if regular pillar tick crits it can proc things like lesser curse, which it obviously should :P And yeah, power tick should remain non crit
Don't put much of hopes that the would respond in this thread.
As for PoP rework.. I would say,, No need add other changes toward this encounter.. Lets not make SW build around 1 power.. This mistake where with Tyrannical Threat.
But, I am curious about details how u guys would rework it..
Anyways,, Speaking about suggestions> I have some old ideas too.
Vampiric embrace - The power and it's mechanic is not bad. But it's dependence of dmg make it hard to get proper healing with it. Without high dmg/RI it's become nonsense to use it. So there are couple options/ways how make it viable. 1) boost up dmg, or restore Soul Bonding feat as where in mod 4, which healed everyone by 200% of VE dealt damage.
2) Add Damage resist ignorance feature while also adjusting dealt dmg by this power. Thats mean power itself would ignore DR/tenacity, restore lot of HP, yet dealt dmg would be too low to kill someone.. It would be good tool for either templock or other build SW's to restore HP. Downside would be due it's low dmg. So players in exchange gain ability restore own or group's Hp, but lose slot which could use for dmg power...
A lot of you would wondering whats problem with this power.
Well I still do think that Hellish rebuke should receive same mechanic as CW's master of flames> Scorching Burst By changing way how apply Hellish rebuke to Scorching Burst, Furry SW will get higher dmg performance due Gatekeepers Empowerment. And temptation finally could properly apply Hellish condemnation debuff. Current way to apply Hellish condemnation toward multiple targets is just mouse torment.
Also by providing Scorching Burst mechanic, SW would get some tactical advantage. Imagine if SW hold charged up this at will. and land in x position, where maybe TR hiding. That would bring new possibilities within pvp. Also within pve it would boost up performance about 20% when comes multi targets, yet same performance for single target..
Now you summon spheres, when enemy hit you, one sphere hit enemy, and by dealt dmg restore warlock HP. Now, Dmg dealt by sphere is low, = low HP restoration . Not mentioned enemy with slap take 70% your HP, and you send 1 sphere with take ~1% his HP. Thats silly.
My suggestion that spheres have 2 modes, 1) defensive, 2)offensive.
1) You summon infernal spheres in their defensive mode. Each sphere provide x flat amount shield, which absorbs incoming damage (Barkshield enchant mechanic.) After absorbing incoming hit, sphere expires. Spheres regenerates itself by x second interval. If all spheres are consumed in fight, power goes to cool down. Note>spheres don't hit, don't do dmg at all. Its as CW's barrier.
2) After summoning Infernal spheres, player hit spheres encounter again, Which convert spheres to offensive mode. Offensive mode = active, seek enemies, hit back attacker. Apply lesser curse. Now I would love to return back old infernal spheres feature to hit hidden targets.
Note> Spheres will seek out foes who are within 30' of the warlock. As old mechanic did, but release only 1 sphere per 1.8s.
Note2> possible options to add random minor debuffing elements as>slow, stun. After all spheres spent power goes to cool down mode.
Curse bite The power since warlocks introduction mod4, where useless and still remain that. The main reason is that, fully dependence on curse/lesser curse. And dmg itself is just bad.
Possible changes
1) curse bite dmg increased by 30%, extra receive Murderous flames like feature which make him AoE + reduce cool down by 20%( at least) 2) curse bite dmg boost up 30%, add chance stun enemies..
3) cut this power from game. its horrible. --------------------------------------------------------------
Wraith shadow.
Kinda nice power, yet to much ceremonies for getting 2s immobility effect.
1) Suggestion> when warlock hit enemy with wraith shadow, it expand instantly, and slow down enemies in it's effect area and dealing reduced DoT.
If hitting enemy affected by curse/lesser currse/TC> enemy or enemies inside WS got debuffed> their outgoing damage reduced by current Wraith Shadow value.
2) wraith shadow work as spider web, same mechanic as ones shoot Syndrith High Priestess of Lolth in eToS.
Thats mean you hit target, and upon hitting him spider web expand, and slow down enemies, + reduce enemies outgoing dmg. If target where affecter by TC, curse/lesser curse, spider web drain their HP(DoT) which restore caster health.
note> in suggestion 1 and 2. animations remain as current WS is, same goes for damage reduction values.
In close range this power should deal at least x2 more dmg than in range. To be worth go in hand2hand fight with enemies. Possible feature> shred part of enemies damage resist...
Eldritch Blast - This power need buff, because once player unlock new at wills, it's become pointless keep it... suggestion: make that at will would work in same manner as KF got buffed by Feat: Murderous Flames feat. Thats, mean for AoE it will get slight dmg increase and same for aoe. It will make power good for pvp, quick hits, and possibility add extra dmg,
Also other option add minor DoT effect.
-----------------------------------------
Essence Defiler -
boost up soul sparks gaining via this at will. It should be dps + utility power.... While for pure dps purpose Eldritch Blast remain best option.
----------------------- Tyrannical Cure - I wondering why it's even had to work as mark/curse? Why it can't work as selfbuff? U buff yourself, and all your powers deal aoe Dmg(Lightning enchantment mechanic), Note: as u can see mechanic already is inside game, TC is just lightning enchantment for short time... Thats mean, for single target get small increase, but good for AoE..... Also warlocks will not suffer of daily powers lose if someone kill TC affected target too early... ---------------------
Harrows storm
Why It can't work as old Pillar of Power - u mark x area where land power.. Once u land there, Fire torando appear. And everyone who get inside got lift in air(CC element- mid range dps).
------------------------
Feats;
--------- Creeping death
my option remain since mod 6 introduction,. This feat should go away... DoT good for long time, but in short fights it always loose..
I prefer that SW Furry would get over all dmg boosting feat, which would proc similar as Rampaging madness.. <
---------------
Murderous Flames
Why it's bound to Killing flames only?? why this feat do not buff/chance all fire powers, which are burst based ones.. Thats mean, Sw could do as where in mod 4/ either build based on Necrotic (DoT + effect) or Fire(dps) build power sets..
Current. Compounded Soul - Striking Cursed foes has a chance to grant 1/2/3/4/5% of the Warlock's Max HP as Temporary Hit Points to allies near the Warlock.
Suggestion: Striking cursed/lesser curse affected foes has chance to grant shields, by ~10% of max warlocks HP.
Effect similar to DC's Warding Flare. Which grant shield and give shield for temporally time. Why do that. Well temp HP is OK, but don't give damage resist. Thats mean even if you have large HP pool and don't have decent Damage reduction you lose anyways.. You can have million HP, but if you can't can't survive impact then it's useless.
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Aura of Despair > boost up its current value from ~5% to up 10%. (2% per rank). --------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are just quick ones...
Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
As for PoP rework.. [snip].. I am curious about details how u guys would rework it..
Well, Icy Terrain is one of the most damaging CW powers, and it's a similar ground-effect damage over time which applies a debuff to enemies standing in it.
Maybe PoP shouldn't do *as much* dmg, since it also applies a buff to us/allies, but there's clearly room in there for a drastic damage increase and for allowing it to crit (which, hey, would also de-emphasize the OBC, problem solved).
As for PoP rework.. [snip].. I am curious about details how u guys would rework it..
Well, Icy Terrain is one of the most damaging CW powers, and it's a similar ground-effect damage over time which applies a debuff to enemies standing in it.
Maybe PoP shouldn't do *as much* dmg, since it also applies a buff to us/allies, but there's clearly room in there for a drastic damage increase and for allowing it to crit (which, hey, would also de-emphasize the OBC, problem solved).
ICY terrain is good, because not due it's dmg allone. But because icy terrain proc/triggers other CW powers/effects/feats.
And this is core of SW problems. powers alone are good, but they don't have as good interaction with each other and feats as other classes do have... also curse mechanic is one of problem why Furry bound toward TC daily power.. Because if for cursed u deal 100% dmg, then for non cursed u dealing ~60% dmg.. SW need replace curse dependence and had feats which would boost up warlocks outgoing dmg over all, regardless if targets cursed or not.. Then curse itself become more optional. Also as tool to extend dmg outcome for single or 3 targets...
As for PoP, well, personally I would like that, feat: PoNH get merged with PoP. Because all HB's are forced to either pick this feat or become DuckOnPlate in middle of hunting season or in other words u become easy target.
While for dmanation would provide other buffing element which would work around soul puppets.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
ICY terrain is good, because not due it's dmg allone. But because icy terrain proc/triggers other CW powers/effects/feats.
And this is core of SW problems. powers alone are good, but they don't have as good interaction with each other and feats as other classes do have...
I'm not sure that's fair, really. PoP is good not due to its damage alone, but because it reduces enemy dmg resistance and increases your dmg by a large amount, so it increases the damage of your other powers by 24% total. That's very close to in line with max CW dmg bonus from chilling presence, which I guess is part of why I think Icy Terrain is a valid comparison. Icy Terrain damage is far and away superior to PoP damage. It procs Lightning / other Wep% procs on a per-tick basis, can crit, and just generally deals significantly more damage than PoP does. It does not proc OBC per tick. Multi-proccing weapon enchants and allowing PoP to crit would close this gap considerably, but its damage would probably still need boosted a bit to actually match.
also curse mechanic is one of problem why Furry bound toward TC daily power.. Because if for cursed u deal 100% dmg, then for non cursed u dealing ~60% dmg.. SW need replace curse dependence and had feats which would boost up warlocks outgoing dmg over all, regardless if targets cursed or not.. Then curse itself become more optional. Also as tool to extend dmg outcome for single or 3 targets...
I don't disagree here. An easy solution would be to merge the concepts of Curse and Lesser curse, and make *all* curses both deal the damage over time *and* give the +20/30% dmg. There's enough feats and class features that apply lesser curse that this would make swiftly applying curse to everything in an aoe a non-issue, without de-emphasizing the importance of cursing.
As for PoP, well, personally I would like that, feat: PoNH get merged with PoP. Because all HB's are forced to either pick this feat or become DuckOnPlate in middle of hunting season or in other words u become easy target.
While for dmanation would provide other buffing element which would work around soul puppets.
I don't mind that. Even moving PoNH down to Temptation (since it's the buffing tree) would be okay. Their current feat in that slot is a very weak 5% dmg debuff on hellish rebuke.
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andorrabellMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 437Arc User
edited September 2017
Nothing devs, nothing? We have a massive enchantment upgrade coming, I need to know if I'm shelving my main and finally giving up on my class. We *care* about this stuff, please give us a heads up if we are getting a fix.
I mean I know there are only like a handful of us left after the previous "fixes" that pretty well nerfed us all to hamster, but this will break our class completely.
andorrabellMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 437Arc User
edited September 2017
They've known our class is messed up since the last "fix" when they made the damnation tree unusable and made it very difficult to put out appropriate dps compared to all other dps classes. The ONLY thing that made us competitive given our broken state was the OWC. It's certainly appropriate to change that, as no class should have to rely on one companion, but to do so without remastering us so we can fulfill our proper role is inexcusable.
To ignore this thread is doubly so.
Fix us. We should be competitive with gwfs, which we haven't been since our last class "fix". If this change goes live with nothing we will be a detriment to any party in any role versus anyone who can press buttons.
Or give us a "change class" token and just delete SWs if they can't make them work. Sigh.
And this is core of SW problems. powers alone are good, but they don't have as good interaction with each other and feats as other classes do have... also curse mechanic is one of problem why Furry bound toward TC daily power.. Because if for cursed u deal 100% dmg, then for non cursed u dealing ~60% dmg.. SW need replace curse dependence and had feats which would boost up warlocks outgoing dmg over all, regardless if targets cursed or not.. Then curse itself become more optional. Also as tool to extend dmg outcome for single or 3 targets...
This. Which is why my rotation is BoVA, SS, and either fiery bolt or arms of hadar depending on if I can single rotation burst things down. High crit + ACC = minor curse spread like wild fire.
I'd love to see the duration of dark revelry buffed because the call for dc's "isn't about the healing, but the power sharing" and we do everything but.
Dear Devs, i commented on this thread earlier and have sat patiently waiting for a response, but alas, no communication.
I will leave you with this final thought. I've just downloaded FF XiV. Be warned, i will not be the only one.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Same for me wodewick. I spent more time on Kritika than NWO last days. I had fun with my Temptlock for a while but it will be over soon. Some montgs ago I posted on the forums a plead not to change the OBC without reworking the Temptlock first but they seem to have lost a global vision of the game and just change stuff here and there.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
If you have watched and read the recent developers comments, you will see they have a vision for the game. It is not your vision. It is not my vision. It is their vision. They have priorities with the game.
The biggest priority is that they create new content about every quarter. You might disagree with this concept. You might think it is better for them to fix the current game. But it does not matter what people think. They must come out with new content about every quarter. Some sharks die if they do not continue swimming. This is the metaphor for adding new content to an MMO.
Have you heard the story of the frog and the scorpion? You should read it and understand its meaning.
One of my favorite quotes from Blade is: "Some MF'ers just want to skate uphill!"
If you want to give the developers feedback, then focus on the current issues they are tackling. You can see the Official Developer Feedback threads.
If you create a feedback thread, like this one, you are trying to take the developer attention away from their current focus. You are skating uphill. You should never expect a response from them on a thread like this.
However, the developers did say that threads like this are important when they decide to focus on specific topics. The question is...do you want to spend your time chasing a changing target? Do want to spend your time today on a topic that may not be looked at for 6 months, 1 year, 2 years? How long have the TR been waiting for their update? That class has no viable specs compared to other DPS classes for PvE end game and the developers have conceded this.
If this thread was meant to bring up an issue with a current patch, then it should be a response to the patch notes, not a separate thread, IMHO.
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andorrabellMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 437Arc User
Give me a break, breaking a class completely is worthy of a thread and needs it's own thread. We know they do things without realizing the consequences, they need to understand what this change will do to scourge warlocks before we have no choice but to change mains (only possible for some) or give up entirely.
Give me a break, breaking a class completely is worthy of a thread and needs it's own thread. We know they do things without realizing the consequences, they need to understand what this change will do to scourge warlocks before we have no choice but to change mains (only possible for some) or give up entirely.
Unfortunately the headline of the thread is sensationalized BS. Warlocks overall did not have their DPS cut by 50% and the class was not completely broken. While those who use the owlbear cub are impacted, it is not a class wide problem. When you put a sensationalized title like that, any serious person will discount you for a whiney mamby pamby.
Be more specific in your issue and don't be sensational if you want to get their attention.
***edit** Maybe a more specific headline like:
"Were Owlbear Cub Changes Intended to Decrease Templock DPS by up to 50%?"
Unfortunately the headline of the thread is sensationalized BS. Warlocks overall did not have their DPS cut by 50% and the class was not completely broken. While those who use the owlbear cub are impacted, it is not a class wide problem. When you put a sensationalized title like that, any serious person will discount you for a whiney mamby pamby.
Be more specific in your issue and don't be sensational if you want to get their attention.
***edit** Maybe a more specific headline like:
"Were Owlbear Cub Changes Intended to Decrease Templock DPS by up to 50%?"
Do you play as warlock? I mean for real, not just having having created 70 lv SW within preview server, had 5 minutes of intense fight where u tried impress training dummy with poor dps..
I can bet u posting here because u are bored.
Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
> @onodrain said: > Give me a break, breaking a class completely is worthy of a thread and needs it's own thread. We know they do things without realizing the consequences, they need to understand what this change will do to scourge warlocks before we have no choice but to change mains (only possible for some) or give up entirely. > > Unfortunately the headline of the thread is sensationalized BS. Warlocks overall did not have their DPS cut by 50% and the class was not completely broken. While those who use the owlbear cub are impacted, it is not a class wide problem. When you put a sensationalized title like that, any serious person will discount you for a whiney mamby pamby. > > Be more specific in your issue and don't be sensational if you want to get their attention. > > ***edit** Maybe a more specific headline like: > > "Were Owlbear Cub Changes Intended to Decrease Templock DPS by up to 50%?"
The owlbearcub give you 50% of your power as damage every single tick of POP.
Instead of insulting people, try to prove your point with arguments.
If your ar 16k GS of course the owlbear is maybe 15% to 20% of overall damage with is huge, in fact huge enought to make the class useless. If you can't understand that there is not much to discuss...
BUT if you are a 11k gs, when your power get buffed in groups by dcs and such, POP owlbear then represent a huge part of overall dps, i wouldn't be surprised if it represent more than 40% dps for a low GS.
You need to understand, not all player have a vorpal or dread 12... or bondings r12 and enchants > 10 And overall not all players master theirs sw toons and rotations. Even the devs reconize that SW need a full rework, but every mod brings a nerf to sw "broken mechanic" but there is NEVER a compensation.
The problem is that these broken mechanics were the only thing that allowed us not be useless vs other dps class... You should at least understand that...
When your car have a few problems, you don't just remove the parts that make a weird sound, you do a full diagnosis and decide if it worth changing a few part or change the engine with a new one... We are in this situation, we need a new engine for our sws.
With Neverwinter, that's not how it works... They kill your class to the ground, then you make a gwf and spend again loads of money and time to make dps again...
There should be NO FIX AT ALL until the class is reworded as whole.
Give me a break, breaking a class completely is worthy of a thread and needs it's own thread. We know they do things without realizing the consequences, they need to understand what this change will do to scourge warlocks before we have no choice but to change mains (only possible for some) or give up entirely.
Unfortunately the headline of the thread is sensationalized BS. Warlocks overall did not have their DPS cut by 50% and the class was not completely broken. While those who use the owlbear cub are impacted, it is not a class wide problem. When you put a sensationalized title like that, any serious person will discount you for a whiney mamby pamby.
Be more specific in your issue and don't be sensational if you want to get their attention.
***edit** Maybe a more specific headline like:
"Were Owlbear Cub Changes Intended to Decrease Templock DPS by up to 50%?"
I wasn't going to post again, then i saw your post, i thought i'ld give a detailed answer, then i just decided that this should be my response:-
First of all I think warlock need some buffs/rework esp. templock. My owlbear deals about 20% as a 100% critbuild. I also run templock with 100% crit and deal respectable damage maybe 50% less than my dps build I would say. I will lose 10% dps if this nerf is real. I know that 100% crit is not easy to obtain but it is the meta in almost all dps-builds and classes. At 180% Critseverity your 1000 Hellish Rebuke deals 2800 damage, same as the dot deals +180%, same as Creeping death procs with +180%. We never saw a templock power build contesting a critbuild, maybe someone can get this done once.
The "low crit-high power" build using DT-POP-BoVA seems to be punished pretty much. I am not happy about it, but I am also not surprised that these changes came up. What exactly are the changes, less ticks, lower ticks on non crit?
Unfortunately the headline of the thread is sensationalized BS. Warlocks overall did not have their DPS cut by 50% and the class was not completely broken. While those who use the owlbear cub are impacted, it is not a class wide problem. When you put a sensationalized title like that, any serious person will discount you for a whiney mamby pamby.
Be more specific in your issue and don't be sensational if you want to get their attention.
***edit** Maybe a more specific headline like:
"Were Owlbear Cub Changes Intended to Decrease Templock DPS by up to 50%?"
I wasn't going to post again, then i saw your post, i thought i'ld give a detailed answer, then i just decided that this should be my response:-
You're wrong.
He really isn't, though. And another responder yelled at him for insulting people, which he isn't.
Is this a real problem? Yes. He doesn't dispute that. He's disputing both the 50% number and applying it globally and equally to all warlocks.
His entire point appears to be, "When you exaggerate the problem, you are less likely to be taken seriously or given an official response." And he's 100% correct.
This change affects (as far as we can tell so far) three warlock powers which previously procced OBC on every tick.
The last official statement regarding the OBC occurred the last time they nerfed OBC multiprocs, and stated rather plainly that they were aware that there were still a handful of powers which could multi-proc it and that those interactions would likely be adjusted in the future. In the time since, discussions around whether or not the OBC was BiS for HB almost universally contained arguments between people saying not to spend your money that way because it WAS going to get nerfed, and people (like me, frequently) saying, "It may or may not, but until it does it's BiS. No one can say certainly one way or the other or tell you how to react to the known risk."
So...now that nerf is coming (unless this is just a bug on the preview server, which is possible but unlikely). OBC is probably still BiS for HB SWs, even with fewer ticks, just by a less ludicrous degree.
It's probably possible to construct a high-power temptation build using BoVA/DT/PoP that loses 50% of its damage from this nerf.
It's also possible to construct a high-crit temptation build using KF/FB/PoP that loses somewhere around 20% of its damage from this nerf.
The average HB Fury SW using KF/FB/PoP looks to be estimating losses closer to 10%.
That is still a big problem, because SWs as a whole are already not in the best spot DPS-wise, and losing 10-20% will make that even more obvious, but this headline is inaccurate, and that's probably (part of) why there's no dev responses here.
Yes, this necessitates taking a look at adjusting SW damage. Yes, this largely renders low-crit builds obsolete (they were already eventually falling behind at 13-14k). Yes, this hits HB Templocks the hardest. Yes, hard sometimes to not feel insulted by Devs completely ignoring all of the SW state-of-class questions that 1) scrolled past during the last Dev livestream, 2) were posed during the reddit AMA, and 3) exist on these forums. The optimistic side of me feels like maybe they're working on something but it's not ready for our eyes yet. Even if that's not the case, lying about how drastically something negative hurts us doesn't help our cause.
Unfortunately the headline of the thread is sensationalized BS. Warlocks overall did not have their DPS cut by 50% and the class was not completely broken. While those who use the owlbear cub are impacted, it is not a class wide problem. When you put a sensationalized title like that, any serious person will discount you for a whiney mamby pamby.
Be more specific in your issue and don't be sensational if you want to get their attention.
***edit** Maybe a more specific headline like:
"Were Owlbear Cub Changes Intended to Decrease Templock DPS by up to 50%?"
I wasn't going to post again, then i saw your post, i thought i'ld give a detailed answer, then i just decided that this should be my response:-
You're wrong.
He really isn't, though. And another responder yelled at him for insulting people, which he isn't.
Is this a real problem? Yes. He doesn't dispute that. He's disputing both the 50% number and applying it globally and equally to all warlocks.
His entire point appears to be, "When you exaggerate the problem, you are less likely to be taken seriously or given an official response." And he's 100% correct.
This change affects (as far as we can tell so far) three warlock powers which previously procced OBC on every tick.
The last official statement regarding the OBC occurred the last time they nerfed OBC multiprocs, and stated rather plainly that they were aware that there were still a handful of powers which could multi-proc it and that those interactions would likely be adjusted in the future. In the time since, discussions around whether or not the OBC was BiS for HB almost universally contained arguments between people saying not to spend your money that way because it WAS going to get nerfed, and people (like me, frequently) saying, "It may or may not, but until it does it's BiS. No one can say certainly one way or the other or tell you how to react to the known risk."
So...now that nerf is coming (unless this is just a bug on the preview server, which is possible but unlikely). OBC is probably still BiS for HB SWs, even with fewer ticks, just by a less ludicrous degree.
It's probably possible to construct a high-power temptation build using BoVA/DT/PoP that loses 50% of its damage from this nerf.
It's also possible to construct a high-crit temptation build using KF/FB/PoP that loses somewhere around 20% of its damage from this nerf.
The average HB Fury SW using KF/FB/PoP looks to be estimating losses closer to 10%.
That is still a big problem, because SWs as a whole are already not in the best spot DPS-wise, and losing 10-20% will make that even more obvious, but this headline is inaccurate, and that's probably (part of) why there's no dev responses here.
Yes, this necessitates taking a look at adjusting SW damage. Yes, this largely renders low-crit builds obsolete (they were already eventually falling behind at 13-14k). Yes, this hits HB Templocks the hardest. Yes, hard sometimes to not feel insulted by Devs completely ignoring all of the SW state-of-class questions that 1) scrolled past during the last Dev livestream, 2) were posed during the reddit AMA, and 3) exist on these forums. The optimistic side of me feels like maybe they're working on something but it's not ready for our eyes yet. Even if that's not the case, lying about how drastically something negative hurts us doesn't help our cause.
Ok then, i'll make it simple. I am not willing to play a broken class for the next 6 months, in the hope that i will eventually hit 14-15k ilevel to build a 100% crit and 150% crit severity build. Because that's the only other option right now.
For everyone under that number, OBC makes up a huge (easily 50% depending on ilevel) part of the damage and heals. or run a pretty useless SW.
Show me a SW build with say 12k ilevel without OBC that can hold it's own against other similar class levels and ill happily switch.
Ok then, i'll make it simple. I am not willing to play a broken class for the next 6 months, in the hope that i will eventually hit 14-15k ilevel to build a 100% crit and 150% crit severity build. Because that's the only other option right now.
For everyone under that number, OBC makes up a huge (easily 50% depending on ilevel) part of the damage and heals. or run a pretty useless SW.
Show me a SW build with say 12k ilevel without OBC that can hold it's own against other similar class levels and ill happily switch.
Why are you making ultimatums to me? I'm not arguing with you.
I'm arguing with using hyperbole when facts would suffice.
Fact: SW dps was already requiring way more effort for less return than CW, HR, GF, and GWF dps. Honestly even skilled TRs were already generally beating SWs of equal skill level. Fact: The average skill level of a random player of any class is absolutely terrible. This makes it actually much harder to actually determine where class balance is the issue, and where skill floors/ceilings are misaligned. Skill floors and skill ceilings are still an important thing to balance, but are often way more complicated. On my 13k templock i'd say I have a 50% record of beating other DPS classes within 2000 il above me. That trend started literally at 7k the day I hit 70 with him. I'm not saying you're bad, I'm saying that other bad players losing to warlocks dilute whatever data they can collect about where warlocks need improvement. Fact: This nerf has been verified by zero devs as intentional. Fact: The build on preview is in no way final (yet). Fact: when @asterdahl made the last round of OBC changes, he said he wasn't done making OBC changes. Fact: While devastating to many SWs of many item levels and many builds, reaching a 50% loss requires selecting Hellbringer, selecting all three of the powers affected by this nerf as your encounter powers (bonus fact: BoVA is almost indisputably, unforgivably awful. OBC can cover for until maaaaaaybe 11-12k, but honestly, outside of letting Sharandar trash mobs die on it, it has no use on your bar. All those squishy minions that die to BoVA in 4-5 seconds? They also die to one Fiery Bolt crit.), being temptation, and focusing solely on power. Fact: For so long as the OBC procs on every tick of DT, BoVA, and PoP, Cryptic is utterly unable to buff those powers as part of reworking SWs to make them more competitive. Yeah, I agree, any change to the OBC interaction should have been made simultaneously to SW buffs, but for all we know this was an internal proof of concept change meant as part of a larger set of SW adjustments that erroneously got merged onto the preview server.
Hyperbole: "Scourge Warlock DPS reduced by 50% on preview server" Really easy adjustment to make that a fact instead: Honestly I can't beat @onodrain 's recommendation of "Were Owlbear Cub Changes Intended to Decrease Templock DPS by up to 50%?"
It in no way diminishes the urgency or severity of the problem to be honest about it.
This is HAMSTER. No one is saying it isn't. Arguing amongst ourselves is kind of pointless. I'm just trying to help you communicate better, so that your valid concerns won't be ignored.
Comments
ScyLent PvE GF Main
S C Y L E N T PvE DC Alt
ScyLent Lux PvE OP Alt
Unrepentantgaming.com
Tried out the cub on my TR and really liked the AoE buff for mob clearing at the cost of single target. That's down the toilet as well.
Tired of hoping for fixes and actual content. Was tedious as hell and not fun grinding up 6 chars above 13k with my TR closing that gap. Nerf after unneeded rushed nerf. With this new enchantment grind incoming I can't do it anymore. The game has turned into 90% refinement and 10% content. They went overkill on enchantment ranks. It's just too one minded and boring now. Can't even trust them to deliver on anything other than completely unnecessary BS.
Or they still just dont give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ?
Yeah, agreed, if regular pillar tick crits it can proc things like lesser curse, which it obviously should :P
And yeah, power tick should remain non crit
As for PoP rework.. I would say,, No need add other changes toward this encounter.. Lets not make SW build around 1 power.. This mistake where with Tyrannical Threat.
But, I am curious about details how u guys would rework it..
Anyways,, Speaking about suggestions> I have some old ideas too.
Vampiric embrace -
The power and it's mechanic is not bad. But it's dependence of dmg make it hard to get proper healing with it. Without high dmg/RI it's become nonsense to use it.
So there are couple options/ways how make it viable.
1) boost up dmg, or restore Soul Bonding feat as where in mod 4, which healed everyone by 200% of VE dealt damage.
2) Add Damage resist ignorance feature while also adjusting dealt dmg by this power. Thats mean power itself would ignore DR/tenacity, restore lot of HP, yet dealt dmg would be too low to kill someone.. It would be good tool for either templock or other build SW's to restore HP.
Downside would be due it's low dmg. So players in exchange gain ability restore own or group's Hp, but lose slot which could use for dmg power...
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HB's hellish rebuke.
A lot of you would wondering whats problem with this power.
Well I still do think that Hellish rebuke should receive same mechanic as CW's master of flames> Scorching Burst
By changing way how apply Hellish rebuke to Scorching Burst, Furry SW will get higher dmg performance due Gatekeepers Empowerment.
And temptation finally could properly apply Hellish condemnation debuff.
Current way to apply Hellish condemnation toward multiple targets is just mouse torment.
Also by providing Scorching Burst mechanic, SW would get some tactical advantage. Imagine if SW hold charged up this at will. and land in x position, where maybe TR hiding.
Also within pve it would boost up performance about 20% when comes multi targets, yet same performance for single target..
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Infernal spheres
Now you summon spheres, when enemy hit you, one sphere hit enemy, and by dealt dmg restore warlock HP. Now, Dmg dealt by sphere is low, = low HP restoration . Not mentioned enemy with slap take 70% your HP, and you send 1 sphere with take ~1% his HP. Thats silly.
My suggestion that spheres have 2 modes, 1) defensive, 2)offensive.
1)
You summon infernal spheres in their defensive mode.
Each sphere provide x flat amount shield, which absorbs incoming damage (Barkshield enchant mechanic.)
After absorbing incoming hit, sphere expires. Spheres regenerates itself by x second interval. If all spheres are consumed in fight, power goes to cool down.
Note>spheres don't hit, don't do dmg at all. Its as CW's barrier.
2) After summoning Infernal spheres, player hit spheres encounter again, Which convert spheres to offensive mode.
Offensive mode = active, seek enemies, hit back attacker. Apply lesser curse.
Now I would love to return back old infernal spheres feature to hit hidden targets.
Note> Spheres will seek out foes who are within 30' of the warlock. As old mechanic did, but release only 1 sphere per 1.8s.
Note2> possible options to add random minor debuffing elements as>slow, stun.
After all spheres spent power goes to cool down mode.
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Curse bite
The power since warlocks introduction mod4, where useless and still remain that.
The main reason is that, fully dependence on curse/lesser curse. And dmg itself is just bad.
Possible changes
1) curse bite dmg increased by 30%, extra receive Murderous flames like feature which make him AoE + reduce cool down by 20%( at least)
2) curse bite dmg boost up 30%, add chance stun enemies..
3) cut this power from game. its horrible.
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Wraith shadow.
Kinda nice power, yet to much ceremonies for getting 2s immobility effect.
1)
Suggestion> when warlock hit enemy with wraith shadow, it expand instantly, and slow down enemies in it's effect area and dealing reduced DoT.
If hitting enemy affected by curse/lesser currse/TC> enemy or enemies inside WS got debuffed> their outgoing damage reduced by current Wraith Shadow value.
2) wraith shadow work as spider web, same mechanic as ones shoot Syndrith High Priestess of Lolth in eToS.
Thats mean you hit target, and upon hitting him spider web expand, and slow down enemies, + reduce enemies outgoing dmg.
If target where affecter by TC, curse/lesser curse, spider web drain their HP(DoT) which restore caster health.
note> in suggestion 1 and 2. animations remain as current WS is, same goes for damage reduction values.
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Hand of Blight
In close range this power should deal at least x2 more dmg than in range. To be worth go in hand2hand fight with enemies.
Possible feature> shred part of enemies damage resist...
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Eldritch Blast -
This power need buff, because once player unlock new at wills, it's become pointless keep it...
suggestion: make that at will would work in same manner as KF got buffed by Feat: Murderous Flames feat.
Thats, mean for AoE it will get slight dmg increase and same for aoe.
It will make power good for pvp, quick hits, and possibility add extra dmg,
Also other option add minor DoT effect.
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Essence Defiler -
boost up soul sparks gaining via this at will. It should be dps + utility power.... While for pure dps purpose Eldritch Blast remain best option.
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Tyrannical Cure -
I wondering why it's even had to work as mark/curse? Why it can't work as selfbuff?
U buff yourself, and all your powers deal aoe Dmg(Lightning enchantment mechanic),
Note: as u can see mechanic already is inside game, TC is just lightning enchantment for short time...
Thats mean, for single target get small increase, but good for AoE..... Also warlocks will not suffer of daily powers lose if someone kill TC affected target too early...
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Harrows storm
Why It can't work as old Pillar of Power - u mark x area where land power..
Once u land there, Fire torando appear. And everyone who get inside got lift in air(CC element- mid range dps).
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Feats;
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Creeping death
my option remain since mod 6 introduction,. This feat should go away... DoT good for long time, but in short fights it always loose..
I prefer that SW Furry would get over all dmg boosting feat, which would proc similar as Rampaging madness.. <
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Murderous Flames
Why it's bound to Killing flames only?? why this feat do not buff/chance all fire powers, which are burst based ones..
Thats mean, Sw could do as where in mod 4/ either build based on Necrotic (DoT + effect) or Fire(dps) build power sets..
Current.
Compounded Soul - Striking Cursed foes has a chance to grant 1/2/3/4/5% of the Warlock's Max HP as Temporary Hit Points to allies near the Warlock.
Suggestion: Striking cursed/lesser curse affected foes has chance to grant shields, by ~10% of max warlocks HP.
Effect similar to DC's Warding Flare. Which grant shield and give shield for temporally time.
Why do that. Well temp HP is OK, but don't give damage resist. Thats mean even if you have large HP pool and don't have decent Damage reduction you lose anyways.. You can have million HP, but if you can't can't survive impact then it's useless.
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Aura of Despair > boost up its current value from ~5% to up 10%. (2% per rank).
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These are just quick ones...
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Maybe PoP shouldn't do *as much* dmg, since it also applies a buff to us/allies, but there's clearly room in there for a drastic damage increase and for allowing it to crit (which, hey, would also de-emphasize the OBC, problem solved).
And this is core of SW problems. powers alone are good, but they don't have as good interaction with each other and feats as other classes do have...
also curse mechanic is one of problem why Furry bound toward TC daily power.. Because if for cursed u deal 100% dmg, then for non cursed u dealing ~60% dmg..
SW need replace curse dependence and had feats which would boost up warlocks outgoing dmg over all, regardless if targets cursed or not..
Then curse itself become more optional. Also as tool to extend dmg outcome for single or 3 targets...
As for PoP, well, personally I would like that, feat: PoNH get merged with PoP. Because all HB's are forced to either pick this feat or become DuckOnPlate in middle of hunting season or in other words u become easy target.
While for dmanation would provide other buffing element which would work around soul puppets.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
I mean I know there are only like a handful of us left after the previous "fixes" that pretty well nerfed us all to hamster, but this will break our class completely.
https://www.theholycrusaders.com/
To ignore this thread is doubly so.
Fix us. We should be competitive with gwfs, which we haven't been since our last class "fix". If this change goes live with nothing we will be a detriment to any party in any role versus anyone who can press buttons.
Or give us a "change class" token and just delete SWs if they can't make them work. Sigh.
https://www.theholycrusaders.com/
I'd love to see the duration of dark revelry buffed because the call for dc's "isn't about the healing, but the power sharing" and we do everything but.
So... Any insight, response, or thoughts, at all to this?
I will leave you with this final thought. I've just downloaded FF XiV. Be warned, i will not be the only one.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
The biggest priority is that they create new content about every quarter. You might disagree with this concept. You might think it is better for them to fix the current game. But it does not matter what people think. They must come out with new content about every quarter. Some sharks die if they do not continue swimming. This is the metaphor for adding new content to an MMO.
Have you heard the story of the frog and the scorpion? You should read it and understand its meaning.
One of my favorite quotes from Blade is: "Some MF'ers just want to skate uphill!"
If you want to give the developers feedback, then focus on the current issues they are tackling. You can see the Official Developer Feedback threads.
If you create a feedback thread, like this one, you are trying to take the developer attention away from their current focus. You are skating uphill. You should never expect a response from them on a thread like this.
However, the developers did say that threads like this are important when they decide to focus on specific topics. The question is...do you want to spend your time chasing a changing target? Do want to spend your time today on a topic that may not be looked at for 6 months, 1 year, 2 years? How long have the TR been waiting for their update? That class has no viable specs compared to other DPS classes for PvE end game and the developers have conceded this.
If this thread was meant to bring up an issue with a current patch, then it should be a response to the patch notes, not a separate thread, IMHO.
https://www.theholycrusaders.com/
Be more specific in your issue and don't be sensational if you want to get their attention.
***edit** Maybe a more specific headline like:
"Were Owlbear Cub Changes Intended to Decrease Templock DPS by up to 50%?"
I can bet u posting here because u are bored.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
> Give me a break, breaking a class completely is worthy of a thread and needs it's own thread. We know they do things without realizing the consequences, they need to understand what this change will do to scourge warlocks before we have no choice but to change mains (only possible for some) or give up entirely.
>
> Unfortunately the headline of the thread is sensationalized BS. Warlocks overall did not have their DPS cut by 50% and the class was not completely broken. While those who use the owlbear cub are impacted, it is not a class wide problem. When you put a sensationalized title like that, any serious person will discount you for a whiney mamby pamby.
>
> Be more specific in your issue and don't be sensational if you want to get their attention.
>
> ***edit** Maybe a more specific headline like:
>
> "Were Owlbear Cub Changes Intended to Decrease Templock DPS by up to 50%?"
The owlbearcub give you 50% of your power as damage every single tick of POP.
Instead of insulting people, try to prove your point with arguments.
If your ar 16k GS of course the owlbear is maybe 15% to 20% of overall damage with is huge, in fact huge enought to make the class useless.
If you can't understand that there is not much to discuss...
BUT if you are a 11k gs, when your power get buffed in groups by dcs and such,
POP owlbear then represent a huge part of overall dps, i wouldn't be surprised if it represent more than 40% dps for a low GS.
You need to understand, not all player have a vorpal or dread 12... or bondings r12 and enchants > 10
And overall not all players master theirs sw toons and rotations.
Even the devs reconize that SW need a full rework, but every mod brings a nerf to sw "broken mechanic" but there is NEVER a compensation.
The problem is that these broken mechanics were the only thing that allowed us not be useless vs other dps class...
You should at least understand that...
When your car have a few problems, you don't just remove the parts that make a weird sound, you do a full diagnosis and decide if it worth changing a few part or change the engine with a new one...
We are in this situation, we need a new engine for our sws.
With Neverwinter, that's not how it works...
They kill your class to the ground, then you make a gwf and spend again loads of money and time to make dps again...
There should be NO FIX AT ALL until the class is reworded as whole.
I wasn't going to post again, then i saw your post, i thought i'ld give a detailed answer, then i just decided that this should be my response:-
You're wrong.
My owlbear deals about 20% as a 100% critbuild. I also run templock with 100% crit and deal respectable damage maybe 50% less than my dps build I would say. I will lose 10% dps if this nerf is real.
I know that 100% crit is not easy to obtain but it is the meta in almost all dps-builds and classes.
At 180% Critseverity your 1000 Hellish Rebuke deals 2800 damage, same as the dot deals +180%, same as Creeping death procs with +180%.
We never saw a templock power build contesting a critbuild, maybe someone can get this done once.
The "low crit-high power" build using DT-POP-BoVA seems to be punished pretty much. I am not happy about it, but I am also not surprised that these changes came up.
What exactly are the changes, less ticks, lower ticks on non crit?
Is this a real problem? Yes. He doesn't dispute that. He's disputing both the 50% number and applying it globally and equally to all warlocks.
His entire point appears to be, "When you exaggerate the problem, you are less likely to be taken seriously or given an official response." And he's 100% correct.
This change affects (as far as we can tell so far) three warlock powers which previously procced OBC on every tick.
The last official statement regarding the OBC occurred the last time they nerfed OBC multiprocs, and stated rather plainly that they were aware that there were still a handful of powers which could multi-proc it and that those interactions would likely be adjusted in the future. In the time since, discussions around whether or not the OBC was BiS for HB almost universally contained arguments between people saying not to spend your money that way because it WAS going to get nerfed, and people (like me, frequently) saying, "It may or may not, but until it does it's BiS. No one can say certainly one way or the other or tell you how to react to the known risk."
So...now that nerf is coming (unless this is just a bug on the preview server, which is possible but unlikely). OBC is probably still BiS for HB SWs, even with fewer ticks, just by a less ludicrous degree.
It's probably possible to construct a high-power temptation build using BoVA/DT/PoP that loses 50% of its damage from this nerf.
It's also possible to construct a high-crit temptation build using KF/FB/PoP that loses somewhere around 20% of its damage from this nerf.
The average HB Fury SW using KF/FB/PoP looks to be estimating losses closer to 10%.
That is still a big problem, because SWs as a whole are already not in the best spot DPS-wise, and losing 10-20% will make that even more obvious, but this headline is inaccurate, and that's probably (part of) why there's no dev responses here.
Yes, this necessitates taking a look at adjusting SW damage. Yes, this largely renders low-crit builds obsolete (they were already eventually falling behind at 13-14k). Yes, this hits HB Templocks the hardest. Yes, hard sometimes to not feel insulted by Devs completely ignoring all of the SW state-of-class questions that 1) scrolled past during the last Dev livestream, 2) were posed during the reddit AMA, and 3) exist on these forums. The optimistic side of me feels like maybe they're working on something but it's not ready for our eyes yet. Even if that's not the case, lying about how drastically something negative hurts us doesn't help our cause.
For everyone under that number, OBC makes up a huge (easily 50% depending on ilevel) part of the damage and heals. or run a pretty useless SW.
Show me a SW build with say 12k ilevel without OBC that can hold it's own against other similar class levels and ill happily switch.
I'm arguing with using hyperbole when facts would suffice.
Fact: SW dps was already requiring way more effort for less return than CW, HR, GF, and GWF dps. Honestly even skilled TRs were already generally beating SWs of equal skill level.
Fact: The average skill level of a random player of any class is absolutely terrible. This makes it actually much harder to actually determine where class balance is the issue, and where skill floors/ceilings are misaligned. Skill floors and skill ceilings are still an important thing to balance, but are often way more complicated. On my 13k templock i'd say I have a 50% record of beating other DPS classes within 2000 il above me. That trend started literally at 7k the day I hit 70 with him. I'm not saying you're bad, I'm saying that other bad players losing to warlocks dilute whatever data they can collect about where warlocks need improvement.
Fact: This nerf has been verified by zero devs as intentional.
Fact: The build on preview is in no way final (yet).
Fact: when @asterdahl made the last round of OBC changes, he said he wasn't done making OBC changes.
Fact: While devastating to many SWs of many item levels and many builds, reaching a 50% loss requires selecting Hellbringer, selecting all three of the powers affected by this nerf as your encounter powers (bonus fact: BoVA is almost indisputably, unforgivably awful. OBC can cover for until maaaaaaybe 11-12k, but honestly, outside of letting Sharandar trash mobs die on it, it has no use on your bar. All those squishy minions that die to BoVA in 4-5 seconds? They also die to one Fiery Bolt crit.), being temptation, and focusing solely on power.
Fact: For so long as the OBC procs on every tick of DT, BoVA, and PoP, Cryptic is utterly unable to buff those powers as part of reworking SWs to make them more competitive. Yeah, I agree, any change to the OBC interaction should have been made simultaneously to SW buffs, but for all we know this was an internal proof of concept change meant as part of a larger set of SW adjustments that erroneously got merged onto the preview server.
Hyperbole: "Scourge Warlock DPS reduced by 50% on preview server"
Really easy adjustment to make that a fact instead: Honestly I can't beat @onodrain 's recommendation of "Were Owlbear Cub Changes Intended to Decrease Templock DPS by up to 50%?"
It in no way diminishes the urgency or severity of the problem to be honest about it.
This is HAMSTER. No one is saying it isn't. Arguing amongst ourselves is kind of pointless. I'm just trying to help you communicate better, so that your valid concerns won't be ignored.