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Class Update - Support Build and DPS Build

mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
With the introduction of loadouts it is high time for the devs to clearly modify our classes to allow us to build a pure DPS and a pure support build and the third build can be a mixture of the two with some feats doing better in PVP.

Now with that said I would like to see three unique support roles created...

Healer - includes some buffing but focus is on healing
Tank - focus is on holding threat but also includes some buffing
Buffers/Debuffer - This build is focused on group buffing and debuffing of enemies

With the update to have loadouts each class should be assigned one of the three support role listed and be able to create a DPS role that is focused on the character direct DPS and not buffing or debuffing enemies or the group. This would allow us to create builds and get into content based on our role.

The instance que system would have to be updated and allow us to select our role and it would only be available based on our loadouts and when we get into the instance, we would a campfire to change into the appropriate loadout to meet the role desinated to our character.

This would allow some GF to truly be DPS and SW to be healers, CW to be Buffers, etc...

I know the idea may step on toes a bit but the game has the tools in place to expand, why not do it.

Comments

  • santralafaxsantralafax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    I don't think anybody shoud be "assigned" anything. I already graduated high school, dontcha know.
  • ragequittingdc#8599 ragequittingdc Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    unless gwf can LEGIT tank any of the tier 3 content with this idea, I am strongly against it as a gwf main. 2 dc/2 gf fbi groups are already out of hand as is. I need my spot in groups solidified, not taken out of the equation.
    im actually the gwf carry
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,398 Arc User

    I don't think anybody shoud be "assigned" anything. I already graduated high school, dontcha know.

    If "homework" becomes an additional role, I'm outta here.



  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,514 Arc User
    Isn't this what loadouts are for? The ability to set up in different ways?
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Isn't this what loadouts are for? The ability to set up in different ways?

    Exactly...The thing is though not all classes offer true support role or truly have a tank or healer build that the system can use as said role.

    A great example is a Templock is considered a healer but if they q into content they are always consider a DPS. A GF is always a tank and a DC is always a healer.

    Now my idea would even modify GF and DC so they could be used as a controller/DPS role with modify feats, encounters and personals to remove the defender and leader benefits of group buffing that they offer in exchange for more damage focus builds.

    DC for example whatever path you pick now you do buffing and healing as a leader. With the update to the classes, one of the paragon feat path would change the buffing aspect to self instead of group and the personals would be focused on self buffing for added damage. Damage by this class with the damage build would be competitive against other DPS builds.

    A GF that goes DPS would have feats focused on damage resistance reduction for damage gain and any group buff would only be apply to the GF.

    Yes I am all for support builds first and foremost but this game seriously lack is a true DPS builds for those classes that mainly provide support. No matter how I build a GF or a DC they are first and foremost a support class as a defender and leader. They can never q into content as a Controller/DPS build.

    I picked a DC as my main as I like healing and controlling. Once I got to end game and started to learn that the controller role is mainly a AoE type of DPS I was happy I picked a DC but the more I dived into the game the more I realized that DC's are leaders only and not controllers/DPS no matter how I build my DC.

    I than wanted a tank and DPS class. I started the path down a GWF and found out early on prior to level 10 that GWF are not really tanks and I quickly deleted my GWF and created a GF and went about my way. Now the GF can do good DPS but it is and always will be considered a defender and never a controller for content run. Two classes that have off roles can never be considered as controller/DPS role no matter how I build them. Yes my GF and DC when build right can do good damage but they are not considered a controller/DPS roles in the q system. Also both of those classes typically provide some form of buffing to the group and it may improve overall DPS for the group but at the cost of it having a lower damage. So no matter what I will always have to be a defender and a leader in random pug groups.

    As for GWF, other than a PVP build I do not see any other build in PVE. Good to know that GWF are sidelined to two builds one for PVP and another for PVE.

    The only class I see that may run into some issues here is the OP. They have both a tank and healer build. It would be nice if the devs found a way to give it a DPS role, but if they did this would the OP class than lose it Healer or Tank roles or would the class be left as is since it already has the option to play two separate roles?

  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,514 Arc User
    That isn't a problem with character structure. That's a problem with the game's recognition factor when going into a party.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • metalicum1metalicum1 Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    yeah this would be solved if we can select what do we wanna pug as. Categories as you presented them.
    I wholeheartedly support this.

    It would also force information on players what other classes actually do. There are too many people running around not knowing SW can heal, CW can buff/debuff, etc.
    Aris Meyde CW MoF Renegade

    [PS4] Alliance - House Stargaryen
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    Well I think Sentinel does need a rework - a GWF should be able to switch to a solid tanky build if they find themselves in a situation that warrants an increase in survivability at the expense of some dps output.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

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  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    armadeonx said:

    Well I think Sentinel does need a rework - a GWF should be able to switch to a solid tanky build if they find themselves in a situation that warrants an increase in survivability at the expense of some dps output.

    Sentinel is tanky. It is just that it can't hold aggro to actually tank, and it can't get Unstoppable enough to face-tank an enemy even if it could hold aggro. You spend most of your time inspecting the floor because you are proned. Unstoppable is our CC resist.
    Great points about the GWF needing reworking on the Sentinel build to be tanking.

    For DC's the Righteous build has the feat that grants power sharing to the group. This feat should be moved and the feat should be moved into another feat path that has a feat that is not used and another feat should be added to grant the DC an increase in only their power. There are other feats DC have that grant increase to damage by all sources, those feats in the Righteous should only increase the damage for the DC.

    The DC has two healing type of Paragon feat path and one that is a buffer/damage feat path build. If the devs updated Righteous to be DC damage focus only or modified one of the healing to be DC damage only with a bit of focus on increasing the control effects the DC has it would allow DC characters to play more as a DPS and not just a leader.

    The GF already has a good DPS build. They just need some modification so that if you take the capstone feat in the Conqueror path it removes threat from all your abilities, making it so you can run as a pure DPS even with Enforce threat in your tray and not worry about it causing threat. This would allow those GF that want to play as DPS play as a DPS and not a tank that does high damage.

    For SW, having the ability to select healer you can now play your Templock as a healer. Maybe some minor modification to strengthen it as a leader class.

    As for HR, their buff build should fall into the same damage rank as a full on blown CW buffer/debuff build to ensure balance and ensure that the HR buffing/debuffing offfers some similar benefits.

    As for the TR, this class should have a build to be a buffer/debuffer. This build would be similar to how a HR or CW buffer works to help the group.

    Buffers: CW, TR, and HR
    Tanks: GF, GWF, OP
    Leaders: SW, DC, OP

    If the devs did some modification to class to provide each class a support and DPS build than the devs need to add the role option to content.

    DPS, Buffer/Debuffer, Healer, Tank.

    For the Buffer/Debuffer class I would call the role Controller or Utility.

  • karvarekarvare Member Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    OP is more of a problem for this than you are considering. Power share, decrease cool down, increase movement, AP gain, damage reduction. Will you remove all this, as it is buff/debuff? AoC, defense, I know I am forgetting some others.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    karvare said:

    OP is more of a problem for this than you are considering. Power share, decrease cool down, increase movement, AP gain, damage reduction. Will you remove all this, as it is buff/debuff? AoC, defense, I know I am forgetting some others.

    I did not dive into the OP class as much for DPS as it is a unique class that can play and q into content as two roles already. If you look at how I am building the other classes, they will also be play and q into content as two roles, one role (Utility/Buffer) is not considered a role with the current q system. IMO the OP is unique in that it is the only class that can play two support roles. In fact, the OP reminds me a lot of how you can build characters in ESO that players can play almost any role with that class.

    Now imagine a CW as a tank in NW. You can do that in ESO but not in many other games where any class can play any role and it is due to the weapon used and focus on specific type of armor. ESO is another animal of a MMO game that is very unique in how it is played though combat is so slow by the time and attack is off I'm usually fast asleep, but that is not what I am focused on here with this thread.

    Since I do not know anything about OP I am open to hear other player thoughts. If the devs do modify the OP and give it a DPS role/build, what support role would the OP players be willing to drop to be able to q as a DPS? This would balance out the class and not make it unfair unless all classes got 3 roles to play instead of 2.

  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,398 Arc User



    Now imagine a CW as a tank in NW. You can do that in ESO but not in many other games where any class can play any role and it is due to the weapon used and focus on specific type of armor. ESO is another animal of a MMO game that is very unique in how it is played though combat is so slow by the time and attack is off I'm usually fast asleep, but that is not what I am focused on here with this thread.

    I am legitimately curious: how would you make and play a CW tank?

    Would you just play the game as though you were playing a Bullet Hell game in 3rd person?

  • niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    > @rjc9000 said:
    > I am legitimately curious: how would you make and play a CW tank?
    >
    Very carefully.
  • fluffy6977fluffy6977 Member Posts: 291 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:



    Now imagine a CW as a tank in NW. You can do that in ESO but not in many other games where any class can play any role and it is due to the weapon used and focus on specific type of armor. ESO is another animal of a MMO game that is very unique in how it is played though combat is so slow by the time and attack is off I'm usually fast asleep, but that is not what I am focused on here with this thread.

    I am legitimately curious: how would you make and play a CW tank?

    Would you just play the game as though you were playing a Bullet Hell game in 3rd person?
    There's a guy on Reddit who does it and regularly tanks FBI. its really not that hard, has to do with building enough defensive stats and getting a head start with DPS to keep threshold.
  • spideymtspideymt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 710 Arc User


    There's a guy on Reddit who does it and regularly tanks FBI. its really not that hard, has to do with building enough defensive stats and getting a head start with DPS to keep threshold.

    No...there isnt. This guy does not tank like a GF or a OP. He just dodge a lot and try to CC as much as he can. He plays a MoF and uses lion. After he claimed he can tank fbi he made a video from Hatti "tanking"...we all know hatti isnt a real hard hitting boss, so still no proofe he tanks FBI. I think tanking is different. Run around mobs, try to CC them and dodge everything is not tanking.
    And if you watch the vid where he "tanks" hatti, you can see this is a 5 Minute fight and sometimes he lost aggro. So thats not a good build for a CW and there is no such good thing as a "CW tank".

  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:



    Now imagine a CW as a tank in NW. You can do that in ESO but not in many other games where any class can play any role and it is due to the weapon used and focus on specific type of armor. ESO is another animal of a MMO game that is very unique in how it is played though combat is so slow by the time and attack is off I'm usually fast asleep, but that is not what I am focused on here with this thread.

    I am legitimately curious: how would you make and play a CW tank?

    Would you just play the game as though you were playing a Bullet Hell game in 3rd person?
    If you notice my message it states by weapon and armor type used. In ESO for example heavy armor gives you more Hit Points and if you use a sword and shield, it is the only weapon that has an ability that is a taunt.

    In NW a CW simply do not have the tools to tank but in a game like ESO, there magic wielding classes do have the tools.
  • spideymtspideymt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 710 Arc User


    In NW a CW simply do not have the tools to tank but in a game like ESO, there magic wielding classes do have the tools.

    So we agree there is no sucht thing as a CW Tank in NW and no one cares about ESO in NW? Thx

  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    spideymt said:


    In NW a CW simply do not have the tools to tank but in a game like ESO, there magic wielding classes do have the tools.

    So we agree there is no sucht thing as a CW Tank in NW and no one cares about ESO in NW? Thx
    That is right but in NW can your GF be considered a DPS when you using the q system? Oh yeah that is a big fat no. Same with your DC, cannot be a DPS and your SW is always a DPS. A GWF is always a DPS even if they are setup as a tank.

    What I was trying to make a point about is this game is very limiting in roles for classes. It is sad really that most classes have ONE defined role. Most other games are well beyond this game in design as they realize that giving players more options is always a better thing. The only class in this game that has any option is a OP and if we step back and look at from a broader prospective they really only do one thing and that is provide support but at least OPs has the option to play more than one role.

    Maybe you enjoy being pigeonholed into one role in a MMO. I don't and I hope the devs take a serious look at this game and work toward creating multi roles for each class, similar to how the OP can be a healer or tank.

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