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Official Feedback Thread: Bonding Runestone Changes

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  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    Devs stating that Bondings will still be the 'go to' runestone, this is such an ill considered statement.

    Bondings aren't just used to boost offensive capability, (as mentioned by others) they are used to balance stats that require 100% uptime, such as armor pen, defence & lifesteal.

    The 50% downtime will mean dangerous fluctuations and many players will need to switch to augments just for the reliability.

    The net result of this will most likely be all players (those that remain) running augments with Power or Crit runestones stacked with armor pen gear.

    So RI will balance, crit chance will drop by ~25% and power will remain the same (with 3x r14 empowered)
    or
    crit chance will drop by ~10% and power will drop by 6k (with 3x r14 Profane)

    This is excluding the powersharing from DC and OP which in dungeon groups could translate into a power loss of up to an extra 90k.

    Just going with 3xr14 Bondings (and gaining RI elsewhere) would result in an offensive stat loss of roughly the same, bearing in mind that offence bondings will have half the power of Empowered, multiplied by 1.45 then halved for 50% uptime.

    So 3xbonding = 2.28k power over 30 secs whereas 3xempowered = 6k power with 100% uptime. Adding the extra 22.5% stat boost from gear (45% divided by 2 to average out) means using bondings should equal a significant stat loss compared to augments.

    no they'll be running the bulette preferentially with the 3 eldrich for 175 percent or running a 2 defense for eldrich and one offense
    (just because that's going to be more widely available and affordable than the bulette)
  • vida44vida44 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 667 Arc User
    The changes killed alts. I finally started concentrating on my second toon and now I will have no time.
    The grind I need to go through to get my main back on track will take forever.

    Not to mention the end-game dungeons will not only need a specific, but a perfect setup to finish it.
  • wickedduck22#9795 wickedduck22 Member Posts: 100 Arc User

    I was SOOOO excited for this 2x refinement. like xmas it was gonna be. I was gonna get my toon tomb ready even if I had to break out the checkbook. on the radar was four mythic artis, getting all of my enchantments to r10 at least and my azures to 11. was gonna go for r12 bondings from r10. was gonna sell my black ice war horse come hell or high water to get that 6million dollar T dread... now meh. i'll do some enchantments. see how far I can easily get on my artis. bondings... i dunno. cheap enuff to get to 11.. i might.. but certainly not 12. i honestly don't know if I'll ever be geared enough to do Tomb now.

    normally I get on nw for an hour before bed and do a few quests. my heart isn't in it anymore. I'm bummed. I fell out of love tonight. Can I continue with the motions? time will tell.

    am I being overly dramatic? failed love affairs bring that out...

    destiny sure does have a handsome cover...

    So was I, I was planning to upgrade my HR but now I won't I was so hyped to do stuff today but all my hype died down.
  • vida44vida44 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 667 Arc User

    I was SOOOO excited for this 2x refinement. like xmas it was gonna be. I was gonna get my toon tomb ready even if I had to break out the checkbook. on the radar was four mythic artis, getting all of my enchantments to r10 at least and my azures to 11. was gonna go for r12 bondings from r10. was gonna sell my black ice war horse come hell or high water to get that 6million dollar T dread... now meh. i'll do some enchantments. see how far I can easily get on my artis. bondings... i dunno. cheap enuff to get to 11.. i might.. but certainly not 12. i honestly don't know if I'll ever be geared enough to do Tomb now.

    normally I get on nw for an hour before bed and do a few quests. my heart isn't in it anymore. I'm bummed. I fell out of love tonight. Can I continue with the motions? time will tell.

    am I being overly dramatic? failed love affairs bring that out...

    destiny sure does have a handsome cover...

    So was I, I was planning to upgrade my HR but now I won't I was so hyped to do stuff today but all my hype died down.
    I played my DC for three weeks straight (everday) to get him to unlock most of the campaigns. Bought him a SKT unlock also. Started playing the game again. But with this it's just bad. So bad.
    I have no idea how this will impact my game time.
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 932 Arc User
    edited August 2017

    mynaam said:

    There are only 2 relevant concerns with this.
    1) Existing content is balanced around current r12 bondings..
    2) people invested into BiS items -> refund of investment

    1) I don't believe content is balanced around BiS party. Yes, it might be harder to complete end game dungeons, but I don't see that as a problem (loot is a problem). There will still be enough power level to complete these dungeons no matter what. All dungeons can be completed by sub-optimal parties with waaaay sub-optimal stats. It's like you can beat mspc, tomb only in a BiS meta party.
    Loot is a problem though. If dungeons will take longer, we should get more out of them.

    You just need to craft new builds, or balance your gear out to get the stats you need, and keep stats like power for the companion. Yes, we all be weaker, but I don't see that as a bad thing.

    2) They should do some kind of a refund for bondings. Th nerf is massive, and people deserve some of their in game currency back, so that they can speed up the change if they want different items.

    Less than 1 % of the player base will now be able to play tomb of the nine gods ... this is bad it will widen the gap between bis and medium level players. and medium players will get agrevated because they are un able to progress due to inability to do t09g
    I don't know where this 1% stat is coming from. And I also don't understand how players who don't run tomb are held in progress. It's not like the gear or anything in to9g is essential to anything.
    If to9g is the most difficult dungeon in the game, I have no problem for it being exclusive. for time. It's not like everyone in GW2 is running fractal 100, and it's not like everyone in WoW is raiding everything.

    As I said, I see a problem there, and it's the loot. Now, more than ever, we need more loot in chests.
    The 1% is ment to indicate the very few that are BIS and if you NEVER get to run t09g you will never get 500IL gear and thus stall on your progress. It will not be exclusive for a time being it will be for months if not a year to about 1% of he population making mod 12 just as big a bust as mod 11
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    It has been 5 YEARS since last new class this is getting ridiculous
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Please do master/normal version of dungeons. This way content for all MOD 19 have nothing new for vast majority of player base. Giving an EVENT is not same thing as permanent content for non BIS. As we suggested in CDP
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • demolitioninc#2453 demolitioninc Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    The only issue I see here is the uptime of the bonding. They nerf the percentage they provide but give use R14 enchantments - sob basically no nerf there. Leave the uptime of the bondings at 100% - but nerf them to 60-85% fine. This will provide more options with augment and eldritch stones and still keep bonding viable.

    An augment with 3 R14 profanes runestones will for example provide 6000 crit = 15% plus the augment crit and equipment. I would just loose some power.

    For everybody else complanining and threatening to leave - changes are not even on preview yet, beginning of the year they made last minute changes to weapon enchantments, in May they made last minute changes to Mysterious Merchant vendor equipment - you can cry about leaving when it gets live like that. Maybe first tests on preview with new R14 enchantments show that the change is manageble (thx in advance to the guys testing that).

    So lets see, the last time after testing on preview they were adjustments after two weeks on preview and then again when it went live, no reason to overreact right now.
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  • vincentr6669vincentr6669 Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Everybody talking about "eldritch is the new meta". Did you guys see that Empowered Rank 14 gives 32000 hit points?

    Do you prefer a Bulette Pup with 3xEldritch for 176,5% of its stats?

    Or do you prefer a Bulette Pup with 3xEmpowered for 100% of its stats plus 96000 HP? That's an huge bonus to Aura of Courage damage plus the fact that Tenebrous Enchant does not have internal cooldown anymore.

    I'm really not so sure about Eldritch being the best here... If i am right then everybody will desesperately want Tenebrous Enchant and a Paladin on their party lol

    Pally the new AC DC.
  • treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    For everyone crying about bondings, look at the new r14 enchantments and think that right now on live you can get almost 40k stats from bondings, totally not powerful *facepalm*(sarcasm)

    @noworries#8859
    If bondings are getting a change then i think it should be totally for the better. By saying this i mean all companions being in a equivalent when it comes to speed of activating these stones and also a way to make them functional on augments. I don't believe cryptic will lose money making all companions good gift givers, true there are people that will like some cheaper companions, but there is a chance they'll want to upgrade them to legendary and there are also people that may want to wave their super expensive companions around.

  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    My main concern right now is at what point or what criteria in an internal discussion at Cryptic provoke a COMMIT response.

    These changes are going to happen, whenever Cryptic commit, they commit, they might placate our concerns with some tweaks but if they have underestimated player thinking that 3xEldritch looks like it is going to be more effective (more effective, not necessarily BiS) than any other meta, then anything they do to mitigate damage done to Bondings before this goes live is only going to hurt us down the line.
  • treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    FFS stop crying, with the new enchantments you'll barely feel the difference, in fact if the bondings are up 50% of the time and those 50% are in the beggining, most fights bondings wont even go down, which makes them even more powerful then now, and even more speed runs will appear =S. My opinion is, don't make them 50% chance, 100% is good, lower companion gift is good as well, but make something like "When you or your companion use a power" instead of being only 1 sided.

  • araneaxaraneax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 639 Arc User

    FFS stop crying, with the new enchantments you'll barely feel the difference, in fact if the bondings are up 50% of the time and those 50% are in the beggining, most fights bondings wont even go down, which makes them even more powerful then now, and even more speed runs will appear =S. My opinion is, don't make them 50% chance, 100% is good, lower companion gift is good as well, but make something like "When you or your companion use a power" instead of being only 1 sided.

    meanie....

    let people cry a bit, it is good for their soul and overall health of their body.
    They need to get it out. Better this then keeping it in.

    :P
    d7d81448-df6b-48cf-94a0-cf1ba87d861a_zpsish6zr2v.jpg

  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    <
    araneax said:

    It is like all the other nerfs and stuff before ...

    Why do i even get surprised any more.

    I wonder if we will get any reply .
    And if there is going to be one i already know what it is going to be .

    " We are looking into your concerns "

    Then that will last for a few weeks. People will rage in here, post on the forum, until the silence before the storm.

    And the solution is going to be :

    " We decided our approach is right for the current model of the game. You may not see it but we are improving over all experience of the game and adding more fun into the mix, it is good for you ! "

    Bam, the change will go as written in here.

    Just like with AA , bubble , key change, coalwards and all other beautiful changes that so helped with our experience of the game.
    I sell that kind of speeches to my customers all the time.

    But usually the truth is , it is already a done deal.

    I agreed with your post but I couldn't bring myself to like it, mostly because we know it's happened before and that it'll happen again.

    I do also disagree that they won't listen, I think those who are going to have the most impact with this change rollout will be very interested in this thread. How they address our concerns is another matter.

    I also do think that some of the changes they introduced, like the mount system, the revamped journal to name but a couple of some very good changes have had little to no input from us from the beginning. They are very good at coming up with improvements that we all enjoy immensely.
  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 332 Arc User
    araneax said:

    It is like all the other nerfs and stuff before ...

    Why do i even get surprised any more.

    I wonder if we will get any reply .
    And if there is going to be one i already know what it is going to be .

    " We are looking into your concerns "

    Then that will last for a few weeks. People will rage in here, post on the forum, until the silence before the storm.

    And the solution is going to be :

    " We decided our approach is right for the current model of the game. You may not see it but we are improving over all experience of the game and adding more fun into the mix, it is good for you ! "

    Bam, the change will go as written in here.

    Just like with AA , bubble , key change, coalwards and all other beautiful changes that so helped with our experience of the game.
    I sell that kind of speeches to my customers all the time.

    But usually the truth is , it is already a done deal.

    Maybe there is some hope.
    The main concern is the uptime of the bondings.
    When Cryptic did the changes to the weapon enchants, there were some last minute adjustments: hopefully they will go backwards on the decrease of the uptime.
    Our voice can count if we all shout together.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    <

    araneax said:

    It is like all the other nerfs and stuff before ...

    Why do i even get surprised any more.

    I wonder if we will get any reply .
    And if there is going to be one i already know what it is going to be .

    " We are looking into your concerns "

    Then that will last for a few weeks. People will rage in here, post on the forum, until the silence before the storm.

    And the solution is going to be :

    " We decided our approach is right for the current model of the game. You may not see it but we are improving over all experience of the game and adding more fun into the mix, it is good for you ! "

    Bam, the change will go as written in here.

    Just like with AA , bubble , key change, coalwards and all other beautiful changes that so helped with our experience of the game.
    I sell that kind of speeches to my customers all the time.

    But usually the truth is , it is already a done deal.

    I agreed with your post but I couldn't bring myself to like it, mostly because we know it's happened before and that it'll happen again.

    I do also disagree that they won't listen, I think those who are going to have the most impact with this change rollout will be very interested in this thread. How they address our concerns is another matter.

    I also do think that some of the changes they introduced, like the mount system, the revamped journal to name but a couple of some very good changes have had little to no input from us from the beginning. They are very good at coming up with improvements that we all enjoy immensely.

    they'll listen but they won't actually do anything to change anything other than extreme superficial items.

    coal wards.. we all got some free coal wards then things went forward as planned.
    keys change they changed the drop rate for like a week adn then it silently reverted back.


    being thrown a itsy bitsy tiny bone isn't really enough though.

    the problem is it isn't the devs making these decisions. it's coming from much higher up the food chain. from people who have already sold it to the ceo or whatever as the next big money maker since sliced bread. they're in a corner.



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