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What do we know about plans for GF so far?

jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
I haven't had my ear to the ground for quite some time. Last I heard the Devs weren't happy with GF damage.

Have they said anything else regarding their views on GF's in the last 6 months?

I would really just like to know what has been said by the Devs to get a clearer understanding of any impending nerf. I don't want this thread hijacked by pro/con nerf replies pls.

Comments

  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,997 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    hmmm perhaps a search of the forums may lead to some results ...but most are in the lower depths already lol


    you will get arguent that a gf cannot block/be tanky and be dps at the same time ( in pve )
    yoU will get arguments they shoUld be a "TANK" role
    you will also get arguments that they are too good at burst prone and blocking in pvp
    you will get arguments that said player was not best in slot blah blah whee is your data blah blah here is a vide o link
    you will get oh but this special spec or combo or courage breaker nullifies the gf blah blah
    yoU will get a link froM the devs in the previews section saying he does not like where they are at

    yoU will get the gfS role should be based on/ defined by his powers / or his feat tree / or his class

    yoU will get my pvp / pve gf got nerfed gOt buffed because of "THOSE GUYS" keep pvp and pVe powers separate (regardless if the change came fRoM the devs or pLAyer feedback or vocaL minorities or was in the pipeline already
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,997 Arc User
    @defiantone99

    oh i got another one .. I invested x y z into the class...how am i going to go do dailies with my 3 rank 12 bonding and full rank 12s if my dps gets nerfed and I am a tank
    dont nerf /adjust me.... just buff others : D
  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    @kreatyve @zebular Would it be possible to send a request up the chain for planned balance changes to the GF, or perhaps an ETA on such communication?

    When previous class balance changes were announced, there were some pretty solid blog posts detailing the background context and objectives of the re-balance, as well as select snips of data to help.

    @jumpingmorks has a point that GF damage was mentioned by devs as potentially over-performing, so it would be helpful to hear what the thoughts are about any changes coming down the pipeline, or whether other balance changes are planned first (for instance buff rework)
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    dupeks said:

    @kreatyve @zebular Would it be possible to send a request up the chain for planned balance changes to the GF, or perhaps an ETA on such communication?

    When previous class balance changes were announced, there were some pretty solid blog posts detailing the background context and objectives of the re-balance, as well as select snips of data to help.

    @jumpingmorks has a point that GF damage was mentioned by devs as potentially over-performing, so it would be helpful to hear what the thoughts are about any changes coming down the pipeline, or whether other balance changes are planned first (for instance buff rework)

    Ty Dupeks.

    As a reminder, I just really want to know what or if anything the devs have said regarding GF. Player speculation will not answer my question.

  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,997 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    rgutscheradev the DEV said REgarding GF
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12971383

    * GF: Lots of people are saying this class has too much of everything in PvP. I also don't like where the class is -- burst damage is just not the right role for this class. But nerfing their damage and leaving them with nothing would not be good either. I think GF needs a more thorough revamp. Long term, I'd hope they have a more interference/harassment type role (along, of course, with being tough), but with moderate damage rather than extremely high burst.
    * If too much of current PvP damage is coming from piercing, we may have a problem with it just being too hard to kill players in PvP. We have a number of options for handling this: lowering the "players take less damage" amount, making AP or Crit Sev more effective, increasing healing depression, or adjusting specific defenses if the problem is limited to just a few defensive powers. This will be another area where your feedback will be very helpful.


    FYI Player "SPECULATION "is also read as well as their feedback (and is what contributes to changes) and i was summarising general forums feedback and what player say / debate about such a subject ... you could always also read all the posts yourself .. its important "PLAYERS" understand the reason for such changes and devs need thier input as well

    Is not knowing what players say / how they feel unimportant in order to tie it into the devs proposed solutions ?? to which in the intern they asked for our feedback anyways ,,

    or maybe you want to know about impending nerfs to plan the new flavor of the month class ..*shrugs*

    also identifying the player consensus of problems i listed pros / vs cons is NOT "speculation" those are valid schools of thought for and against nerfs / changes / perspective
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    kalina311 said:

    rgutscheradev the DEV said REgarding GF
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12971383

    * GF: Lots of people are saying this class has too much of everything in PvP. I also don't like where the class is -- burst damage is just not the right role for this class. But nerfing their damage and leaving them with nothing would not be good either. I think GF needs a more thorough revamp. Long term, I'd hope they have a more interference/harassment type role (along, of course, with being tough), but with moderate damage rather than extremely high burst.
    * If too much of current PvP damage is coming from piercing, we may have a problem with it just being too hard to kill players in PvP. We have a number of options for handling this: lowering the "players take less damage" amount, making AP or Crit Sev more effective, increasing healing depression, or adjusting specific defenses if the problem is limited to just a few defensive powers. This will be another area where your feedback will be very helpful.


    FYI Player "SPECULATION "is also read as well as their feedback (and is what contributes to changes) and i was summarising general forums feedback and what player say / debate about such a subject ... you could always also read all the posts yourself .. its important "PLAYERS" understand the reason for such changes and devs need thier input as well

    Is not knowing what players say / how they feel unimportant in order to tie it into the devs proposed solutions ?? to which in the intern they asked for our feedback anyways ,,

    or maybe you want to know about impending nerfs to plan the new flavor of the month class ..*shrugs*

    also identifying the player consensus of problems i listed pros / vs cons is NOT "speculation" those are valid schools of thought for and against nerfs / changes / perspective

    Ty too Kalina, and yes, I'm primarily interested in what the line of thinking the devs are currently at. Am not against valid schools of thought regarding nerf pro/cons, I just want to focus on what the devs have said.

    That thread looks very interesting, have bookmarked it for later, ty :)
  • azaylin#1903 azaylin Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    I main a GF 15.x GS if your in a end game group with competent players that are near your same gear investment and boons. GF will not out dps the dps classes. You will not beat them. This is what gets classes nerfed. Sure when I go into a pug CN and the closest gs is 12k or such I out dps everyone while face tanking the whole thing. But when I run with my guild mates etc. I come in 4th at best and that is with me pulling out all the tricks Knights challenge for double dmg etc.

    The reason for this. Is that nearly every buff we get to increase our dmg is shared to the party to take advantage of those same buffs. Conq spec'ed tanks are where we should be.

    Now there might be a discussion that conqs do more dmg from the 11k rang to 14 k gs range etc. But endgame when the dust settles.
    HR>GWF>SW>CW>TR*>GF>OP>DC

    That is the dps ladder I think the TR needs some work way more than any GF tune up. And Piercing dmg still needs a better solution a feat or function to ignore defense does not seem like a good idea (maybe thats the tank in me talking).
  • mistermayham#5291 mistermayham Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    Lol at all the nerf gf posts. I wish everyone saying gf is op or needs nerfed would make 1 and see what's really going on.

    1st we are squishy when we build for dps. Taking double damage from knights challenge and sacrificing def stats for offense makes us not op.. we die easy without someone else tanking.

    2nd we don't do the damage everyone thinks we do. Yes we can put up good damage, but we need buffs and debuffs from the group to do massive damage.. any real dps class will beat us if in the same group.

    I hope the devs realize this and take it into consideration if they decide to rebalance our class
  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Another thread that has degenerated into mass of nerf requests. Really, same ppl, same arguments

    I only play PvE, so I can't talk about PvP.

    I have a 13K GF

    I can out DPS all others when my Ilevel is significantly higher than theirs - say 1-2K IL. But when I am doing that I am doing a horrible job at tanking and usually I am picking up the squishies from the floor because I'm not making sure I have aggro on all of the mobs.

    When I am DPSing, I am not highest on immovable object, sometimes I am in the bottom 2 (even if I have aggro on 75% of the mobs). In other words, I am doing a HAMSTER job at Tanking. I am not doing both jobs well, and the only reason I am DPSing "ok" is cause I outlevel the other players.

    When I am playing with the other similarly geared CW's in my guild. I do about 60% of the damage that they do (when I am trying to DPS). I never beat them. Admittedly I am not 100% built for DPS because I lack a companion or two and I still have some defence based artifacts

    To tank properly, I need to use aggravating strike, which means blocking. I need to be constantly marking (which means not attacking), I need to be running class features that generate aggro not DPS or mitigate the damage others are taking. When I am tanking properly (even in Conq) build, I am never top on paingiver or top DPS, even when I outlevel other players by a long way.

    My second "main" is a DC - approx. 12K IL. I virtually never (i.e. you could count on one hand in total) see GFs in PvE pug groups that are out DPSing the DPS classes. 100's of pug runs, virtually never seen it.

    This is a non issue, except to a small handful of ppl that have been complaining about the same thing for years.

    Every single video of a DPS GF in a buff run shows them coming in first or second place.

    Every single Video ???? Really, proof please. Or is this just more flame baiting?


    My guild mates don't complain about GF DPS, they complain about the ability to hold aggro or threat. Personally I don't care if they nerf GF (I can swap to DC or CW as they are both mains) damage as long as we keep the ability to get threat away from the DPS classes. At the moment it is a nightmare trying to get threat in pug runs - aggro stealing pets, lightning enchants etc. make it more difficult that it ever has been imo (not sure if lifesteal adds to the issue). The only reason I am chasing DPS atm, is to help me get and hold threat.

    //edit - removed / altered reference at the start that unfairly accused the OP of creating a nerf request, apologies.
    Post edited by lantern22 on
  • cilginordekcilginordek Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    OP can be more tanky than a GF.
    OP can do more damage than a GF.
    OP can also be a healer.
    What do you guys have against GF?
  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    We're just too sexy to pass by, that's the main thing!
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    I have forwarded this thread to Julia to forward to the devs. I can't promise a response. I have also cleaned up quite a bit of flaming and rule violations. If you want a response, I do suggest you knock it off with that kind of behavior. Thanks. Please do not reply to this comment.

    Thank you @kreatyve it looks likes this thread has run it's course and I thank those that have answered my question in the spirit in which it was aksed. I don't think I'll get any more answers regarding any official statements the devs have made on the subject and to prevent any more flaming maybe it is best to close the thread.

    I very much love GF's, I have several and my main is very much loved by myself so I am very interested in what the Devs think of the class and how they see our class going forward.
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    I don't foresee any changes to the class itself that would change much, apart from a respec which we have plenty of.

    The biggest change that could happen is of the made regen good again, making us have to change gear/enchants
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