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Mod 12 PVP is a Joke

architect40architect40 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 20 Arc User
Thanks for the changes.... Mod 12 pvp is a frickin' joke. Multiple DCs and OPs on everyteam. BIS HR can't even kill 10k DC. OPs dealing a ton of damage.
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Comments

  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    unless they can pull all the proposed changes on preview forums together in mod 12b its all over for Pvp
    just spent hours waiting in Q as my buffs and patience wore to 0
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    http://i.imgur.com/3lIzTaZ.png This is a list of how Pvp used to be from about a year ago...look how many matches played etc

    http://i.imgur.com/jm3DDxv.jpg
  • trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User
    Pallies shouldn't be killing anyone besides total pugs. DC's are crazy tanky and combats did wayyyy to much damage in mod 11.5. I personally cant wait to see how it is for a GWF when it comes out on xbox. But yes they still have a lot of work to do to balance the game more.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    5 years later...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • sh00termcl0vinsh00termcl0vin Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    A resurgence of troll classes was an inevitable outcome when piercing damage was nerfed. That coupled with the armor penetration changes gives classes with defensive buffs and high hp greatly increased survivability. Major offenders continue to be empowered astral shield and paladin temp hp.
    image
  • pinda055pinda055 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    The game is fine as it is now, nerfing damage dealers is only going to make pvp all cc and unkillable games premade vs premade.

    Ofcourse maybe minor changed to certain classes but the damage of hr, gf and tr are fine it brings a dynamic into the game, remove that damage and youll have silly cc games 24/7 and then people complain about askin for a cc nerf even then so, people will start about healings etc. Certain classes like Warlock and GWF just need a bit better tweak in their damage to compete better with the rest

    (Edit ; xbox )
    Post edited by pinda055 on
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    Powercreep + crazy PVE buffs + imbalanced classes = <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> PVP
    Take away tons of boons and gear, try to balance arround it.
    It is simply impossible to get this in line by one person, you needed an armada of develloper to fix it only for a dead branch of this game.
  • trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User
    You cant balance classes with piercing damage in PVP. They will try and it will never be right.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    pinda055 said:

    The game is fine as it is now, nerfing damage dealers is only going to make pvp all cc and unkillable games premade vs premade.



    Ofcourse maybe minor changed to certain classes but the damage of hr, gf and tr are fine it brings a dynamic into the game, remove that damage and youll have silly cc games 24/7 and then people complain about askin for a cc nerf even then so, people will start about healings etc. Certain classes like Warlock and GWF just need a bit better tweak in their damage to compete better with the rest



    (Edit ; xbox )

    GWFs can hit very hard already, not sure if buffing their dps would be a good idea, that would also increase their capacity to regain hp via lifesteal (some classes like thaum CW/GF usually can't keep up with BiS GWF because of that). Now warlocks do need a major rework, no striker class has limiations as bad as SW's.

    Combat HR/TR damage pre mod 12 is not fine (especially considering their survability is off the charts) but once we get it, should be at a reasonable level. I do agree all classes should have good clearing power though, like in a way that they can run different rotations without lossing a lot of dps. Pvp needs more deaths and less cc for sure. Problem is, people want their class to be able to deal massive dps and to have extremely high survability so as long as that's the case pvp will continue to be as it is now (I find it amusing dps classes complaining about GF/OP damage yet they run with both dps and tanking stats such as deflect through the roof, talk about double standard). If devs tweaked classes so they all can clear some of the others then people would be more likely to rock dps builds rather than cc ones.

    I guess most of you people can agree that if regardless of class we could make a dps build and hop on domintation to kill and to be killed that'd be something good for the pvp= make all classes able to clear others (like, some classes should be a hard counter to others and for this there should be no exceptions), nerf survability so no one can abuse stuff that helps them stay alive indefinitely.

    AP/stamina drains need to be nerfed to uselessness or flat out removed from the game.

    Yo people, pvp= player vs player= kill/die. All classes specced with their highest (or only) dps paragon tree should be able to send other players to valhalla and likewise if failing to use thier class mechanics (SW and GWF need some tweaks regarding shadowslip/sprint and/or unstoppable though) then being sent to the campfire is what should happen, no one should be exempt from this.
    Post edited by jaime4312#3760 on
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,387 Arc User

    pinda055 said:

    The game is fine as it is now, nerfing damage dealers is only going to make pvp all cc and unkillable games premade vs premade.



    Ofcourse maybe minor changed to certain classes but the damage of hr, gf and tr are fine it brings a dynamic into the game, remove that damage and youll have silly cc games 24/7 and then people complain about askin for a cc nerf even then so, people will start about healings etc. Certain classes like Warlock and GWF just need a bit better tweak in their damage to compete better with the rest



    (Edit ; xbox )

    GWFs can hit very hard already, not sure if buffing their dps would be a good idea, that would also increase their capacity to regain hp via lifesteal (some classes like thaum CW/GF usually can't keep up with BiS GWF because of that). Now warlocks do need a major rework, no striker class has limiations as bad as SW's.

    Combat HR/TR damage pre mod 12 is not fine (especially considering their survability is off the charts) but once we get it, should be at a reasonable level. I do agree all classes should have good clearing power though, like in a way that they can run different rotations without lossing a lot of dps. Pvp needs more deaths and less cc for sure. Problem is, people want their class to be able to deal massive dps and to have extremely high survability so as long as that's the case pvp will continue to be as it is now (I find it amusing dps classes complaining about GF/OP damage yet they run with both dps and tanking stats such as deflect through the roof, talk about double standard). If devs tweaked classes so they all can clear some of the others then people would be more likely to rock dps builds rather than cc ones.

    I guess most of you people can agree that if regardless of class we could make a dps build and hop on domintation to kill and to be killed that'd be something good for the pvp= make all classes able to clear others (like, some classes should be a hard counter to others and for this there should be no exceptions), nerf survability so no one can abuse stuff that helps them stay alive indefinitely.

    AP/stamina drains need to be nerfed to uselessness or flat out removed from the game.

    Yo people, pvp= player vs player= kill/die. All classes specced with their highest (or only) dps paragon tree should be able to send other players to valhalla and likewise if failing to use thier class mechanics (SW and GWF need some tweaks regarding shadowslip/sprint and/or unstoppable though) then being sent to the campfire is what should happen, no one should be exempt from this.
    sure and be fair if you are able to send me to campfire with 1 rotation at the same time you have to go down 1 hit for exchange not like now you are dps and you get regenerations from insignias + endless consumption.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,387 Arc User
    AND also if you play dps builds with valhalla set and defensive things dont come here and complain taht you cant deal damage.
  • sh00termcl0vinsh00termcl0vin Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    Piercing damage was broken and should not have ignored tenacity in the first place. One big step to fixing troll classes like paladins and clerics is changing the way their survivability powers work. Empowered astral shield is broken as all hell at the moment, effectively making clerics immune to damage as long as they sit inside their shield. Paladin HP pools are ridiculously high so their temp hp give insane levels of survivability. Changing the way AS works in PvP and limiting temp hp for paladins in PvP (like how unstoppable temp hp is cut in PvP) are a good start to fixing these issues.
    image
  • andre#8369 andre Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    AS is changed for new mod so that's done, but since I'm being nerfed gf and pally dmg really needs to be as well, which isn't. So congrats all, they're even more op. Lets continue complaining about things in the wrong order.
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
    No, as long as dps classes can tank then by all means tank classes should have high damage. You dps mains keep disregarding the fact you can stack as much deflection and hp as real tank classes do, unless you are suggesting to get a massive hp/deflect stats drop/penalty/debuff for dps classes in pvp leave GF/OP damage alone.
  • andre#8369 andre Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    Then change both. Done deal
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    > @trentbail21 said:
    > You cant balance classes with piercing damage in PVP. They will try and it will never be right.

    You can't balance pvp with current strongholds buff's or mount insignias
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • nezdin#5514 nezdin Member Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited August 2017


    You can't balance pvp with current strongholds buff's or mount insignias

    I still cannot understand how, in the current awful state that pvp is in, anyone would disagree with this comment.
    Nezdin (DC)
    Aelan Icebleed (CW)
  • sh00termcl0vinsh00termcl0vin Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    "since I'm being nerfed gf and pally damage needs to be as well..."

    And that exactly is the danger of complaints on the forums. Nerf x class buff my class is not how balance is achieved. As someone said earlier in the thread, at the moment tank classes do too much damage and dps classes are too tanky.

    Balance is achieved by looking at all sides of the equation not just one. Non tank classes are way too tanky at present. Astral shield was just one of those powers that needed adjustment. Survivability for HR and TR need adjusting along with GF and OP damage adjustments if this every happens. Wilds medicine and 100% deflect is not ok. Impossible to catch granting near damage immunity and cc immunity with near 100% uptime is not ok. GWFs with high hp pools and high lifesteal getting full health back in a few swings is not ok. Need I continue?

    Bottom line a non-tank class should never have better damage mitigation than a pure tank class, but that is what we have at present. If you want to be a glass cannon that's ok, but a titanium one is not.
    Post edited by sh00termcl0vin on
    image
  • andre#8369 andre Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Is what I said not true...lmao. And since when was DC a good dps class? If it is to you, you're just a pug player I take it...


    Edit: and with the changes and upcoming changes I agreed the empowered AS nerf did need to happen before someone goes there...
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited August 2017


    You can't balance pvp with current strongholds buff's or mount insignias

    I still cannot understand how, in the current awful state that pvp is in, anyone would disagree with this comment.
    Let me take a stab at it (maybe their prioritise or order for Pvp balance / dev resources are different then yours / ours
    just like some people get selfish and only want class balance / fixes for thier class and fail to see the big picture ...
    here is the big picture how I see and how i thiink the devs / people running the game like a business see it

    premises
    REMOVE ALL BOONS AND MOUNTS FROM PVP ??
    data collection from players..


    average guild level in game is what 10-12?
    average player item level is what 8-12k?
    average cost of a cheap 2 insignia bonus mount ? 50k ads
    average cost of a cheap blue or green insignia ? 1k-20k ads
    likely hood that some one has at least 1 or 2 purple mounts ?
    inginias and packs dropping like water even purple ones are cheap
    events/ coupon codes that give away mounts
    players ability to transfer / share resources between characters notibily equipment and bound to account gear
    tenacity is being removed form gear next mod ....no barrier to entry
    crit works better in pvp next mods pve specs with high crit can threaten vet players (with less adjustments of enchants and such )
    armor pen is high needed in pve .. therefore automatically they will have a moderate amount for pvp
    powers points/ specs that are available cheap on the zen market so no excuses about limited points and power selection
    potions/ run away power sources being limited and adjusted for balance
    new maps being added (stated in dev stream)

    to get an average geared player in pvp with the average population level should be achievable and not a balance issue for some/ no need to remove mounts / strongholds is the premise for some
    provided proper rewards incentive and scene of fairness is restored

    well/lesser geared people with better/worse stuff would / /should not be facing maxed out guys with proper matchmaking / leaderboard fix

    not really a huge gear gap in average population and what they can grind and achive.. they just need to be separated from the pvp Elites

    also we dont want pveers complaining yet again how pvp broke or effected their pve and that they cant use their stronghold boons that they worked for blah blah

    or have a diminishing return graph as proposed so said boons are less pronounced / less effective
    maybe just like healing depression 50% in pvp boons / mount stats bonus should be half

    the devs also take into account average player level items wealth etc when accounting for things
    also who is likely to be more effected/ impacted or complain ....

    just to play devils advocate
    should pvp really be balanced for a 4k item level guy in greens with no boons no mounts and no guild
    that is just starting the game ? will this player make a meaningful impact to matches or their bottom line ?

    what is the cost benefit analysis of ignoring / not catering to these players / complainers
    or having different modes with and without mounts bonuses / barebones pvp

    also diminishing the validity of feedback on the forums
    (small sample size ) from players and simply discounts that as a minority opinion in the population as well ...most hamsters in the system are happy satisfied and fine where they are .. ignorance is bliss
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User
    PvP has been a joke since at least mod 7 for GWF's. We have been getting one hit for at least 75% of the time this games been out LOL. If you guys cant recognize that's why a lot of GWF's and SW's don't play PvP then I'm not sure what to tell you. You will see a big increase to the number of people participating in PvP when or IF the game is eventually balanced out.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • crollaxcrollax Member Posts: 255 Arc User
    kalina311 said:

    http://i.imgur.com/3lIzTaZ.png This is a list of how Pvp used to be from about a year ago...look how many matches played etc

    http://i.imgur.com/jm3DDxv.jpg

    http://imgur.com/a/sDIXx
    http://imgur.com/a/fZ54G
  • finalfantasyac7finalfantasyac7 Member Posts: 582 Arc User
    Piercing is op... especially when it's buffed by gf/dc or both !

    In pvp, anyone who has crazy dps such as gf/hr/tr/sw/gwf should be especially killed and by that i mean it shouldn't be tanky af lolol.

    All classes should be balanced like SW.
    Choose Soulbinder to be tank but have low dps or Hellbringer for high dps but be less tanky.

    As it already been mentioned here somewhere... You can't be both dps and tank !!
    Warlock- Lv80. || Rogue - Lv80. || Wizard - Lv80. || Paladin - Lv80. || Cleric - Lv80. || Ranger - Lv70. || Barbarian - Lv70. || Fighter - Lv70.

    ¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨

  • andre#8369 andre Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    Dc heals are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in pvp so I was meant to tank :)
  • sh00termcl0vinsh00termcl0vin Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    I would like to say a couple of things before this thread gets moderated. The arguments here are circular, with the same people posting the same tired old complaints.

    @andre#8369
    DCs have ridiculous healing in pvp, especially self healing. They are not meant to be a tank class, they are meant to be a buff/support class. Anyone that thinks otherwise has gotten so used to relying on one broken encounter power, that they have no idea how useful all the other powers are. Break the spirit, sunburst, and bastion are all great powers that can be used in PvP fully empowered for both healing buffing, and support. Healing from bastion is extremely high if fully empowered, and stacks up gift of faith as well. Sunburst is great for cc on a node as a knock back. Break the spirit gives anyone nearby a 30 percent damage increase if fully empowered and lowers the damage of an attacker. No class should be able to survive 3 or 4 v 1 versus equally skilled and geared players, or make their entire team effectively immortal, and that is exactly what is being fixed. I play with a great DPS cleric (top 1-5) that doesn't even use AS and he has no problem surviving unless he gets overwhelmed. DC post AS nerf will be just fine, just adapt and move on.

    As for all this talk about removing all boons, mounts, etc. from pvp let me just say, this will NEVER happen. For one PW is running a business and these things entice individuals to spend money. So either you grind for stuff that you need to compete, or you can opt for the easy way out and just open your wallet. That is how free to play games work. If you don't like it find a new game. As harsh as this sounds that is the truth. Some aspects of the game can be a bit too grindy (relic weapons and armor anyone?) and there are valid complaints concerning these things. But complaining about everything in the game will get you nowhere fast and will be ignored.

    This game is also all about progression. Progression involves advancing through the game and building your character to be competitive. I, like other players have put a lot of hard work and time into attaining the gear, enchants, and mounts that I have. But you don't have to be maxed out to be competitive. You can get enjoyment out of the game by advancing far enough to get PvP gear, completing the campaigns, having a good PvP build, and getting artifacts and artifact weapons ranked up. All of these things can be achieved with time. Complaining does nothing and wastes everyone's time, especially when it's the same people complaining in every thread that says "PvP" about the same thing every mod. If you spent less time complaining and more time researching how to make AD, researching a good PvP build, and running pve content you would have caught up with the players you loathe so much.

    Tldr;

    Bottom line PvP needs fixing. Complaining about free to play, play to win does nothing. So far so good on the current changes, and I'll reserve judgement untill we see the end result.
    image
  • andre#8369 andre Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Where did I say DC didn't have other greater skills...I also run BtS and used to have bastion as well. And only dc I know like that you could be talking about is krispy. Stats higher than mine :(


    If we're going off how classes are meant to be played, then gf and pally damage need to be <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> then. That's fair right?
This discussion has been closed.