Hunts feedback

archangelzorak01
archangelzorak01 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 324 Arc User
It is an immense time-sink farming for rare spawns with rarely dropped items, just to summon 1 hunt critter; and at each tier above 1-star the amount of time compounds.

In THC we've taken what I consider an excellent approach. We form up a group of 5, send 2 people to farm T-Rex's and the remaining 3 off to farm Batiris/Crabs/Scorps etc. After a couple of hours we have enough materials to create a few lures.

The issue we're running into is the fact that Hunt's are RNG on top of RNG (later tiers are even more layers of RNG). First you need to find the rare mobs and then hope they drop the item to create a lure. Then when you summon the hunt critter you hope that they'll drop 'anything' at all. Either a decent ring or an item for a higher tier hunt. In the multiple hours spent hunting thus far, Clawgraze/Karkenos mostly, I have yet to get even a single drop. This is an ongoing issue in this game as I hardly run dungeons anymore because I know that 75% of the time I will walk out of a dungeon with less than I went in with, Hunts compound this due to the increased farm time involved.

The amount of time involved in these hunts does not even come close to giving acceptable rewards for the time spent farming them. In the amount of time we spent farming/hunting we could have run a couple dozen CN's or dozen or so FBI's/MSP's.

Note: I really like the idea of the Hunts, I consider it a great way for my guildies to spend their time farming things together and working together to get rings and other items of note. At this time however it pains me to advocate participation in hunting as I know that 90% of those participants will walk away with nothing after having farmed items for hours.

I understand the rarity of the enemies spawning, and I feel that is ok and balanced. However I feel the drop rate on the items from these rare spawns should be considerably higher, if not guaranteed. I also fail to see the rationale with the unique status of the items dropped by these rare spawns, these are consumable items and no consumable should ever be 'unique' unless its a one-time thing.
Neverwinter Module 6: The only MMO expansion in the history of MMO's to remove more content than it added.


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Comments

  • forumnamesuxs
    forumnamesuxs Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 490 Arc User
    I agree.
    Hunts failed miserably at being reasonable, in pretty much every way.
    The changes I would like to see, is to keep the rarity of the monster spawns, but make the drop chance at least 50%, and remove the rarity of both the dropped items, and the lures.
    I really want to like this hunting thing, but all it does now is demotivate me, and really regret taking that route towards extra totems.
    Wolves, big as a horse! I need new pants!

  • adinosii
    adinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    I totally fail to see the purpose of making the drops from the rare spawns unique.

    Seriously - why? How does it improve the game or make for a more entertaining game experience? That "feature" should be removed.

    Also, I would recommend revising the drops a bit. As it is, well...are hunts really worth the effort?
    Hoping for improvements...
  • hastati96
    hastati96 Member Posts: 481 Arc User
    If you farm in groups(3+) you can get easily a 1* hunt / 10-15min. Solo farming kills your farming in the first 30 minutes. The only thing I would change is the spawnrate of the Trex. Make it atleast 25% because you need it for EVERY 1* hunt.
    Nero - Palacetamol - Essence of Aggression
  • xinexix
    xinexix Member Posts: 248 Arc User
    I'm glad to see that Cryptic stuck to the RNG on top of RNG approach. The game has become so demoralizing I hesitate to even recommend it to anyone I know. I keep hoping that something will change, that even one dev will stand up and be like "this isn't fair to our players", but they do the same things over and over again!

    I take a look at the preview shard before a new mod drops and I see very detailed and consise posts about the various bugs and broken mechanics in the mod, but then I look at the forums after the mod drops and nothing has been changed!

  • jonkoca
    jonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    For me the real bottleneck is tyrannosaur fangs. These need to drop a lot more frequently from the king of spines, or even automatically, because right now, okay, everyone is farming the he'll out of the new zone, but later... the king of spines will become impossible to farm. So it'll be fishing, for I guess those fangs from the swimming t-rexs you see all the time bumping into submerged stumps and knocking their teeth out. Or chasing the rare spawn trexs who mainly seem to have no teeth at all.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • jonkoca
    jonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    Ok, couple of days hunting now.

    The good. It's great quest design, you can essentially get your dailies and totem cap done in a day or so, which leaves you the rest of the week to hunt. Or do whatever you like.

    It's also nice to have the hidden monster trope going on, always loved this idea since ff7 and the weapon monsters.

    The not so good. Levels of rng.

    1. Find a rare mob
    2. Hope they drop their lure mat.
    3. Farm KoS, fishing, or wild t-rexes, hope for a tooth.
    (Make lure and bait your monster).
    4. Kill monster hope for next lvl loot mat.

    That's 8 layers of "if" (you need two lure mats) already, before you get to 2-star hunt.

    Plz note. Although you can't have more than 1 unique item in your inventory, you can stack them in your guild bank. My advice, make a pool of mats for your hunters.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • archangelzorak01
    archangelzorak01 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 324 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    Just imagine the levels of RNG involved with getting any loot from the King of Spines Hunt.

    RNG for loot from KOS
    RNG for lure item from Tier 2 Hunt (x3)
    RNG for lure item from Tier 1 Hunt (x2)
    RNG for fang from T-Rex
    RNG for T-Rex to spawn
    RNG for lure item from random spawn
    RNG for mob to spawn as rare

    thats what? 10? 10 layers of RNG? Some of which appear to obscenely low drop rates.

    Think of the amount of time it will take to farm that much stuff. Its absurd. Would appreciate a dev comment concerning this.

    *edited for spelling
    Neverwinter Module 6: The only MMO expansion in the history of MMO's to remove more content than it added.


  • jonkoca
    jonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    To continue, yesterday I finally got the 2 mats to make a 2star lure. Took me 2 days of farming batiri masks and trex teeth and hunting clawgaze, after a lucky drop with the big crab had given me the first mat.

    Ofc. I can't make the 2star lure without doing the next campaign task.

    Looking at the collections pages, I find that for my build the 2 armor pieces from hunting the king of spines with a 3star lure are the best. This leaves me with a dilemma. Next week, and the third week, do I unlock the two further tiers of hunting..? Or progress through the campaign towards the new dungeon like the majority of players..?

    If I do the dungeon tasks, I'm gonna be bored, because already, (unless I farm a few more materials for the 2 star hunts), without the ability to make 2star lures, hunting is kinda dead in the water, and will be for another week, or longer, if I go for opening the dungeon. Meanwhile, without hunting, the new mod is a bit light on stuff to do.

    However, given my luck with demo pve the last year or so, and knowing the king of spines rng will most probably be absolutely horrendous... will hunting prove doubly frustrating in that I won't be able to do the dungeon with the rest of the guild, and that the king of spines is going to stiff me every. single. time.

    Lol. Argh.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • blur#5900
    blur#5900 Member Posts: 490 Arc User
    Personally not a fan of the Hunts. I wanted to go after Rex Amicilum chest piece but since its a drop from tier 3 Hunt i am going to pass on it. Considering the higher RI needed in new mod the Executioners Black Attire seems good enough.
    I started unlocking the middle part to free the dungeon since i want to replace Relic head and arm piece with the Primal gear which comes from the new seals.
    Rings from Hunts are something i might get involved with at some point.
    image
  • tstrong21#4991
    tstrong21#4991 Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    The hunts are extremely aggravating, but why would they make them easier and the gear more common? The unique gear that drops is 480IL and pretty decent. I think it was meant to be harder to obtain. In all of the other zones, when you were done with your quests, daily, and weekly, there wasn't much left to do, at least they gave us something in this new mod that you can still do after your quests are all done.
  • oldbaldyone
    oldbaldyone Member Posts: 1,840 Arc User
    I agree. I like the go at your own pace of the quests, but the hunts seem overly rng. I will probably just go straight to the dungeon and try for seals.
  • wintermurloc
    wintermurloc Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    yup, I dont like the hunts myself.. I managed to get it all set up and my party nearly 1 shot killed it and I didn't even land a hit or more so i couldn't, before it died.. the experience was terribad ;) I know my wife would love to get that rex corona simply because she always wanted valindra's crown for a transmute.. not quite close but still good enough.. I've always wondered why they never gave us valindra's crown as a transmute and I know it was a promotional giveaway to their employees but it's been way past time they made it available ingame
  • panteleelee
    panteleelee Member Posts: 289 Arc User
    Just need make the items sellable to AH....i prefer to buy them from grind.
    I see ppl were trade 1 trex fang for 6-7 gmops, this is ridiculous, these items do not even 5k...i talk about only for rare hunts items.

    Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
    May the Torm of Understanding guide us!
  • jonkoca
    jonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    Definitely the rng on the king of spines Bhe should be adjusted, I spent pretty much the whole day running KoS, at least 20-30 runs, and zero fangs. Didn't have any luck fishing or finding/killing rare t-rexs either.

    I'm not surprised fangs are selling well on the trade-market, farming them is extremely frustrating.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • panteleelee
    panteleelee Member Posts: 289 Arc User
    jonkoca said:

    Definitely the rng on the king of spines Bhe should be adjusted, I spent pretty much the whole day running KoS, at least 20-30 runs, and zero fangs. Didn't have any luck fishing or finding/killing rare t-rexs either.

    I'm not surprised fangs are selling well on the trade-market, farming them is extremely frustrating.

    You have in invetory another fang? If yes then you never get another fang.


    Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
    May the Torm of Understanding guide us!
  • adinosii
    adinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    jonkoca said:

    Although you can't have more than 1 unique item in your inventory, you can stack them in your guild bank. My advice, make a pool of mats for your hunters.

    You can also have one in your shared bank, and mail extra copies to yourself.

    Seriously - it's a silly workaround for something that should never have been put in. Please, get rid of the "unique trophy" nonsense, and allow the items to stack. Having to work around a pointless limitation like this does not benefit anyone in any way.

    I pretty much consider the hunts a good idea, suffering from a design failure that makes them not really worth doing. They are kind-of like the Stronghold Marauders in that respect - feels like those things were designed by someone who doesn't play the game but just looks at a spreadsheet.

    Hoping for improvements...
  • darthtzarr
    darthtzarr Member Posts: 1,003 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    My view on the topic:

    I found that the task of getting 25 hunts in a week to actually be one of the most difficult "dailies" of all time. I somewhat enjoyed the difficulty, but it was sometimes difficult for some very silly reasons.

    1. Trex fang is required for all hunts, so you need like 125 T-Rex kills. This alone is fairly excessive. Even a 100% drop rate (I think it's somewhere around 15-30%) might not solve how hard this one is.

    2. Trophies and lures are unique. I am not really sure what the design decision was behind this one, since the only thing it does is make it artificially harder to get more than one hunt. There is a workaround to this involving mailing trophies to yourself, which made this "okay" but still very annoying.

    3. An alternate solution to the 125 T-Rex kills would be to make 1 star hunts give more totems (1 star = 2 totems, 2 star = 5 totems, 3 star = 10 totems or something), which would cut down on the very large number of T-Rex kills, but wouldn't solve the ratio where T-Rex trophies are almost identically easy to get, except you need 3x as many

    4. As far as rewards go, I am not currently upset about what was dropping, but rather how much was dropping. Currently only one items drops for everyone involved when you summon a hunt. This means that if you have one piece of the lure, and a friend has the other, you still cannot summon the hunt unless someone agrees to give the other ALL of the loot. This doesn't kindle friendships, teamwork, or kindness. Having the hunt randomly drop the item to different people wouldn't solve this either, it would just make lure owners hunt solo.

    5. I feel like some days I could kill 30 rare creatures in a row and get no drops, which makes people begin to doubt they are killing the correct creature. It wouldn't hurt to add a system that set a maximum number of times a rare needs to be killed before someone is granted a drop. Other games have such systems to prevent people from getting unfairly treated by the game RNG, since in theory it is still POSSIBLE to kill 2,000 Batiri Braves and never get a drop. Not likely, but possible (unless you already have such a system in place, which I didn't notice). Another solution could be to add a flashy notification each time you killed a rare creature to confirm you were killing the right enemy, but that removes some of the mystery and doesn't solve the RNG being mad at you problem.

    6. Overall I absolutely love the system of searching for rare creatures. I am sad now that I have found them all. I cannot wait to search out 25 more hunts this week. If only I didn't need 25 T-Rex fangs :'(

    PS: Please fix Split-Ti

    Signature [WIP] - tyvm John

  • jonkoca
    jonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User

    jonkoca said:

    Definitely the rng on the king of spines Bhe should be adjusted, I spent pretty much the whole day running KoS, at least 20-30 runs, and zero fangs. Didn't have any luck fishing or finding/killing rare t-rexs either.

    I'm not surprised fangs are selling well on the trade-market, farming them is extremely frustrating.

    You have in invetory another fang? If yes then you never get another fang.

    Nope, just massively unlucky.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • tstrong21#4991
    tstrong21#4991 Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    Yesterday I spent over an hour running back and fourth between the four spawn points killing giant scorpions. Two Ventomtails would spawn randomly at one of the same locations, and I would kill them. After over an hour of doing this, not a single thing dropped from the Venomtails. This must be the rarest one to obtain. The others drop at an okayish rate, and you can obtain the fangs, femur, and the claw through fishing, but the venomtail seems impossible! I've fished quite a bit, not seen anything but the fang, femur, and the claw, so not sure if the other mats are possible from fishing yet.

    By the way, I agree that the unique item work around is a joke. There is absolutely no reason to not allow more than 1 to be in your inventory, when you can mail them to yourself and keep one in the shared bank. If they know this work around exists, and are fine with it, they should just remove the frustration all together.

    I am perfectly fine with not allowing them to be sold in the AH and agree with the Developer's statement on that matter.
  • beckylunatic
    beckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    jonkoca said:

    Plz note. Although you can't have more than 1 unique item in your inventory, you can stack them in your guild bank. My advice, make a pool of mats for your hunters.

    If this works, you can likely also place the items in your shared bank to sort out later. Since accessing this doesn't require leaving the map with VIP.

    Ed: Mentioned by others as I caught up on the thread.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • darthtzarr
    darthtzarr Member Posts: 1,003 Arc User

    Yesterday I spent over an hour running back and fourth between the four spawn points killing giant scorpions. Two Ventomtails would spawn randomly at one of the same locations, and I would kill them. After over an hour of doing this, not a single thing dropped from the Venomtails. This must be the rarest one to obtain. The others drop at an okayish rate, and you can obtain the fangs, femur, and the claw through fishing, but the venomtail seems impossible! I've fished quite a bit, not seen anything but the fang, femur, and the claw, so not sure if the other mats are possible from fishing yet.

    I have farmed each of the trophies fairly extensively. Venomtails do not spawn 4 at a time. You will notice that two of them are Venomtails, and the others are normal Poisonous Scorpions


    The two neon green ones in the middle are Venomtails. Now I actually think they are one of the more common trophies to drop (possibly just the same drop rate), but rather they spawn less frequently (with only 4 spawn locations). I have even had Venom drop from both Venomtails in the same group twice now (the key is to not pick one up till both are dead). I have currently farmed:

    8x Ogre Femurs (before I started discarding them and stopped counting)
    7x Batiri Brave Necklace
    8x Venomtail Venom
    3x Eotyrannus Talon
    5x Smilodon Tooth
    0x Bigclaw Pincer (haven't even tried)
    10x T-Rex Fang

    My route farms 4 scorpion spawns, 4 tiger spawns, and 2 deinonychus spawns; and I was farming the batiri camp exclusively for the first 2 days.

    Signature [WIP] - tyvm John

  • beckylunatic
    beckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    Between my husband and myself, I think we've got 7-8 trophy items (a mere 1 T-Rex fang) just from very casual play. I do kill the special mobs when I see them.

    We haven't had time to even try hunting though, so we didn't bother to unlock it.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • rifter1969
    rifter1969 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 516 Arc User
    I'm not sure about hunts just yet....

    I mean... I get a few hours a night to play... and I tried doing these over the weekend, but... me and a friend in my alliance tried hunting Batiri braves, and we found a number of the mobs... but they didn't drop anything for either of us.

    I don't know, it feels like your spinning a wheel to get the mobs that drops these items... and then rolling the dice to see if they actually drop something.

    I have only gotten a ogre femur... but haven't even got any more of those.
  • darthtzarr
    darthtzarr Member Posts: 1,003 Arc User
    edited July 2017

    I'm not sure about hunts just yet....

    I mean... I get a few hours a night to play... and I tried doing these over the weekend, but... me and a friend in my alliance tried hunting Batiri braves, and we found a number of the mobs... but they didn't drop anything for either of us.

    I don't know, it feels like your spinning a wheel to get the mobs that drops these items... and then rolling the dice to see if they actually drop something.

    I have only gotten a ogre femur... but haven't even got any more of those.

    If you have a good lawnmower toon that can just wipe out the entire Batiri camp, you should be able to get about 1 Brave Necklace every 15-30 minutes by repeatedly wiping out the whole camp. I see a lot of people running around searching for just the rare monsters, but they won't get to them first if I am killing the whole camp as it spawns. Obviously you should still prioritize the rares if you spot them while mowing your lawn.

    EDIT - also note that Batiri Necklace seems to be one of the rarer drop rates, since the Brave itself has a high spawn rate (often 1-5 braves per entire Batiri camp respawn). The easiest to farm seems to be the useless Ogre Femur due to Split-Ti being unspawnable. Sadly all hunts require the T-Rex Fang, so you still need to go hunt the T-Rex to get a hunt going. The other trophies are fairly easy.

    Signature [WIP] - tyvm John

  • darthtzarr
    darthtzarr Member Posts: 1,003 Arc User
    Except with no entrance fee

    Signature [WIP] - tyvm John

  • jonkoca
    jonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Lol, that just makes it worse. At least an entrance fee is fixed, and guarrentees an outcome, i.e.. you enter.

    Ok, let's say your end goal is the rex armor and head from the final king of spines hunt.

    The entrance fee for that is three second tier hunt mats. Which requires 6 first tier mats. Which requires 12 rare drops.

    First tier hunts you can reasonably solo, if you have good gear. Second tier hunts, I don't know, but guessing hmm, difficult to the point of foolishness, given the grind to get the 2nd tier lure. So there's also the necessity of having a party of trustworthy friends/guildies for the higher level hunts.

    I don't really have to point out the levels of rng involved, both intrinsic to the system, and player imposed via party dynamic.

    The zone trade market for trex fangs has taken off already in the past couple of days, and slowly, or maybe not so slowly, the market for 2nd tier mats and lures will join it, and eventually the last tier market for spines mats and lures will follow. Maybe. Each layer involves near-exponential grind. Most likely, since people are running hunts for the extra 25 totems per week, the trade market will level out at 2nd tier lure mats. Depending on the prices, some will essentially start a business farming and selling second tier lures and third tier mats.

    Realistically, hunts have just created a new industry.

    The icing on the whole cake though, is that all these trade goods are just lottery tickets. Without a guarrentee. Essentially, barring a wink from Rngesus, worthless.

    I remember the old dungeon delves, run 3 times in an hour with a decent group, for a couple of days or weeks, and you got your bis, top tier gear. Then you went back and helped you guildies or channel mates get theirs. Guarrenteed. Press bar x number of times, get reward.

    These days. Lol. Not a chance. These days it's press bar x number of times for a chance to press another bar y number of times for a chance to press yet another bar z number of times for the (possibilty of a) reward. Of course, we don't know the actual values of x, y and z, nor if values of x, y, and z can actually be known at all. On top of that, the drastically reduced chances of getting what you want within a reasonable time frame means you are in direct compatition with the people in your party, because whereas in the older model you knew that if your party-mate won the drop, sooner or later you'd get yours too, plus you also knew they would help you, because the effort and time involved was not prohibitive.... and this is no longer the case if we are honest. Psychological poison.

    So, who, in the near future is actually going to get the hunt armor, before later mods make it obscelete..? There will ofc. be "that one guy" the guy who just flat out was favoured by the gods, and rolled 50 sixes in a row. The free-to-play posterchild whom the developers can hold up and say "look, it is possible, just look at this guy here !!!" And there will be small groups of people who basically had enough capital to buy a large pool of materials for the king of spines lures, and farmed the hell out of it.

    Mr. Solo, unless, Mr. Solo is gob-smackingly rich, can forget it.

    Much as I love this game, there are aspects of it that are very easy to despise. Plus of course the irony of participating in an activity supposed to take us away from the frustrations of our real lives, and then simply re-creating all the mundane insanities we experience day to day anyway.
    Post edited by jonkoca on
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • spideymt
    spideymt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 710 Arc User
    Kudos to the Devs. Hunt is the main reason why NW is fun again for me. Searching, killing, looting, calling Bosses...thats awesome designed. I dont mean it sarcastic. Thats my real opinion. I love that hunt.

  • darthtzarr
    darthtzarr Member Posts: 1,003 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    jonkoca said:

    The entrance fee for that is three second tier hunt mats. Which requires 6 first tier mats. Which requires 12 rare drops.

    No, that is the requirement for the final most expensive hunt. You can start much sooner than that. Masterwork comes with many entrance fees including a Mythic Forgehammer, and a lot of materials just to be allowed to finish the entrance quest. Hunting can be immediately started as soon as you unlock the Hunts Tier 1 task, which only takes a weeks worth of campaign currency. I would set the time required to get your first hunt (from someone who actually knows how hunts work) at 1 hour. That's if the RNG really just tries to kill you, and you don't have very good gear.
    jonkoca said:


    First tier hunts you can reasonably solo, if you have good gear. Second tier hunts, I don't know, but guessing hmm, difficult to the point of foolishness, given the grind to get the 2nd tier lure. So there's also the necessity of having a party of trustworthy friends/guildies for the higher level hunts.

    I am really not sure how hard they are to solo, but a party kills 2-star hunts in about 3-10 seconds (and I am talking about a party that does FBI in 25-30 minutes). Also, you do not need a trustworthy party. The lure owner should demand party lead, and switch the loot mode to Determined By Party Leader. This prevents anyone from stealing your loot.
    jonkoca said:


    I don't really have to point out the levels of rng involved, both intrinsic to the system, and player imposed via party dynamic.

    You aren't wrong on this one, but the lures aren't all that rare, and getting hunts aren't all that hard. Although getting 25 in a week may be difficult for people with less time due to how the T-Rex Fang drops work (I will most definitely be complaining about this mechanic later)
    jonkoca said:


    Realistically, hunts have just created a new industry.

    Just curious... how is this even bad?
    jonkoca said:


    The icing on the whole cake though, is that all these trade goods are just lottery tickets. Without a guarrentee. Essentially, barring a wink from Rngesus, worthless.

    Yes, and yes. These are lottery tickets. I personally won't be buying them, at least not en masse from strangers, because I have too much fun hunting them down myself with my friends and guildies. They can basically be thought of as dungeon keys for a minidungeon, which are also lottery tickets. I am mainly doing them for the totems at this time though, so any loot so far is just an added bonus. I got 10 lures that I got to take the loot from last week, and got 2, plus 4 rings, and 3, 2-star trophies, so based on an extremely limited sample size the drop rates don't seem horrible.

    I do plan on going after some of the 3-star gear, since it is easily BiS for DCs, but hey I haven't gotten that far yet. I will form my opinion on it when I get there. :)


    Signature [WIP] - tyvm John