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CW class feature / spells rework needed
hastati96
Member Posts: 498 Arc User
One of the devs has said once (maybe 2 years ago?) that the CW is the class that has the best balance and won't be touched in the future. A lot has changed until now. CW has so many spells that are simply not relevant due to a lot of reasons.
Every damage build uses the same spells and class features, probably because the most are pretty bad. A support build is the only way of getting a small variation in builds.
I don't want to call for a whole class rework, the CW is very solid in every kind of content in my opinion. Sadly we have tons of useless spells and especially class features thats the problem I see with the class. (refered to pve content, no pvp meant)
I just want to give a short list of spells and class features that I think are useless and can't compare to others and may need a rework or looked at:
1. Orb of Imposition:
I have never noticed a difference in the duration of my control powers tbh. The calculation isn't exactly +20% if you use this feature. Together with all the cc-immune foes in endgame content I doubt that this feature finds any use. I think increasing the % would help.
2. Evocation, Sturm Fury:
Unfortunately Evocation and Sturm Fury are simply bad compared to Storm Spell. Due to the enormouse damage storm spell deals these two class features aren't a pick in any build. They simply can't compare to Storm Spell. Increasing the damage would maybe help the class feature.
3. Eye of the Storm
Eots was a very strong class feature before m6. The 100% crit chance was definetly worth to use back in days. Nowadays people do already reach the 100% crit with equipment + companions so eots isn't usefull anymore and needs a rework. Maybe change the use to a +% stat or something.
4. Arcane Power Field:
I think everyone who has ever tested this class feature can tell me that it simply does awfully damage (around 3k proc / enemy). The idea of an AoE damage class feature is great but unfortunately the damage output is a joke.
5. Frost Wave:
The problem I see with this class feature is the duration of the cc. 1 sec is like nothing. The idea is great but is not good enough to be a pick in any cw build.
6. Shard of the Endless Avalanche:
This spell was amazing once and got a place in most builds back in days. Until the cooldown was increased and damage reduced that is probably the reason why no one uses it anymore. Disintegrate has 1/3 of Shard's cooldown and does roughly a similar amount of damage (of course depending on #enemys). In my opinion the cooldown should be recuded by at least 3 seconds and the damage increased by roughly 20-25%.
Every damage build uses the same spells and class features, probably because the most are pretty bad. A support build is the only way of getting a small variation in builds.
I don't want to call for a whole class rework, the CW is very solid in every kind of content in my opinion. Sadly we have tons of useless spells and especially class features thats the problem I see with the class. (refered to pve content, no pvp meant)
I just want to give a short list of spells and class features that I think are useless and can't compare to others and may need a rework or looked at:
1. Orb of Imposition:
I have never noticed a difference in the duration of my control powers tbh. The calculation isn't exactly +20% if you use this feature. Together with all the cc-immune foes in endgame content I doubt that this feature finds any use. I think increasing the % would help.
2. Evocation, Sturm Fury:
Unfortunately Evocation and Sturm Fury are simply bad compared to Storm Spell. Due to the enormouse damage storm spell deals these two class features aren't a pick in any build. They simply can't compare to Storm Spell. Increasing the damage would maybe help the class feature.
3. Eye of the Storm
Eots was a very strong class feature before m6. The 100% crit chance was definetly worth to use back in days. Nowadays people do already reach the 100% crit with equipment + companions so eots isn't usefull anymore and needs a rework. Maybe change the use to a +% stat or something.
4. Arcane Power Field:
I think everyone who has ever tested this class feature can tell me that it simply does awfully damage (around 3k proc / enemy). The idea of an AoE damage class feature is great but unfortunately the damage output is a joke.
5. Frost Wave:
The problem I see with this class feature is the duration of the cc. 1 sec is like nothing. The idea is great but is not good enough to be a pick in any cw build.
6. Shard of the Endless Avalanche:
This spell was amazing once and got a place in most builds back in days. Until the cooldown was increased and damage reduced that is probably the reason why no one uses it anymore. Disintegrate has 1/3 of Shard's cooldown and does roughly a similar amount of damage (of course depending on #enemys). In my opinion the cooldown should be recuded by at least 3 seconds and the damage increased by roughly 20-25%.
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The shard nerf makes no sense today anyway. CWs can achieve insane dps now, due to rapidly proc effects. Shard is just a one hit nuke that could hit twice depending on position. Plant growth is a lazy pop and forget attack. I'd rather have powerful attacks that require skill over this lazy dps meta.
Im not sure how many useless powers CW has compared to other classes. I can imagine that this problem isnt CW specific.
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
2) Evocation is a decent class feature, imo it can be left as is, all that really needs to be changed is consistency with regards to what is considered AoE and what is considered single target. The gap between Evocation and Storm Spell is not as large as some may think (it is actually quite small). Storm Fury needs the condition to be changed, it is simply not feasible to expect players to remain below a certain HP threshold in a meta with so many forms of self healing, where 1 shot attacks are what players are expecting. Not sure what I would do with it, but it would definitely involve changing the condition.
3) Only bad due to current stat curves. If the devs wish to stick with linear stat curves, I would have it give critical severity, if in future they are going to go back to a system where crit chance has an effective hard cap, I would leave it as is.
4) It is hard to evaluate this class feature when it doesn't scale with a lot of buffs (doesn't even benefit from its own offhand bonus). I would fix its buff scaling before trying to rework it and see how it performs when it actually functions as intended.
5) Would probably be bad even if CC was viable in the current meta, as CW as enough sources of control without it and 1 source of control (Oppressive Force) has a longer duration than Frost Wave anyhow.
6) Would be nice.
Useless power are definetly a huge problem. If I remember rightly every class, except CW, had smaller or huger changes to useless power in the last years. DC was even reworked how many times, 3 times?
GWF is a really powerfull class in PVE but it only has 4 powers and by that i mean you will always use 2 and sometimes change daring shout out if you have a GF that marks targets for you...
Is not a CW problem is for most classes and is really hard to fix it, people will serach the "best" power for each style and soon everyone will be using those same powers again... is a really hard fix
(if is possible to fix without making all powers look the same...)
I Just gave it a try in pvp on each daily i saw enemies to walk without problem not immobilized at all.
As a CW I have to work and gear ultra hard and upgrade to start seeing returns on my DPS. While I'd like to do something different than CP and SS as my class features and the rotation COI - IT - SS - SP - DIS - it is what it is.
Instead of buffing the other features/powers - as well as the MOF path as I dont believe they fully get the 20% extra Crit Severity from CC and smoulder is sometimes broken - CS will nerf the above. I would not like to see that happen as I worked way too hard and too long finally seeing the DPS I been striving for. If there were alternate ways to it - Im more than happy with that for a sense of variety.
However - getting back to PVPers making suggestions on class adjustments - STOP! Just STOP! You people have been systematically ruining PVE experience due to all the nerfing borne out of you people's saltiness!
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Imprisonment
we actually could use a single target lightning power instead
as we dont have one to use with elemental empowerment / synergy with single target speced cws
we have cold./ arcane and fire single target but no lightning single target (only procs from other effects spell storm)
a very big misconception that every adjustment to a pve power is because of pvp the devs are not stupid you know
@trieper47 said
"However - getting back to PVPers making suggestions on class adjustments - STOP! Just STOP! You people have been systematically ruining PVE experience due to all the nerfing borne out of you people's saltiness!"
so full of hampster this statement I dont even know where to start with you.. what pve player dont get salty? lol ....like you right now lol ??? so they devs dont adjust/ balance any pve powers on thier own right ?????
could easy argue the reverse that all the pve nonsence pilled on power and pve over buffs ruin pvp
if you look some of the best balance power suggestion by decent players they account for pvp and pve balance or dual use / duration .. you are the one that is salty lol
I remember reading a couple mods ago a comment from a clueless Pve Pally that they nerfed his bubble cause of pvp .. and i linked him the direct dev comment that said the exact opposite !!!!!
ignorant pve players love to use pvp players as a scape goat why thier powers or rotations suck or are weak so they can feel better about themselves
lol @ GFs got nerf-neutered in 10.5 comment omg dude really lolz
you forget all pvp players still have to do pve.... so they secretly advocate to get nerfed in pve so they can get buffed in pvp right ??? just lol dude
While I do still use Eye of the Storm because my Crit is not even approaching 50%, it can still be relevant for many. Still my larger issue is I notice my Wizard struggles far more than my HR or even my Palladin around the same gear score cause their extremely squishy. I'd wish some of their control powers were enchanced which your post clearly attempts to address or even extending Ray of Enfeeblement to better reducing enemy damage or armor resistance more.
One thing I'd like to see to considered to address Arcane Power Field or Frost Wave a 'little bit' is to extend the time for Arcane Stacks or Chill Stacks out another .75s per rank to a maximum of 3 seconds depending the class power used being used in addition to the temporary buff given when a daily power is utilized.
1. Orb of Imposition as you suggest is rarely used by Anyone and I'd fully support this being boosted more.
2. Evocation, Storm Fury would be NICE to see improved.
3. Eye of the Storm I'd say can still be relevant for many lower gear score wizards <13.5k who Crit is far less
4. Arcane Power Field is rarely if ever used, it should extend arcane stacks by .75s for each Rank or 3s at IV..
5. Froze Wave is another that aside from daily usage buff also extend chill stacks .75s for each Rank or 3s at IV.
6. Shard of the Endless Avalanche I think almost no one uses anymore so I agree with you cause it's a shame.
I now you didn't mention it but also Arcane Presence I'd also love to see a better focus on boosting the Arcane Damage per stack rather than cold damage. We already have Chilling Presence and if a Wizard wants to focus more on Arcane skills that should be a viable option.
On topic I would say if CW features etc were modified, these are the ones that should be changed:
Orb of Imposition: Simply because it is worse than control pets.
Storm Fury: Change the condition to proc.
Frost Wave: Invent a new class feature, there is nothing about this mechanic that will ever make it good.
Arcane Power Field: Fix the bugs related to it and then we can see how it should function, before deciding what other reworks it needs.
Arcane Presence: The mechanic is kind of clunky. Due to hastening light/aura of wisdom/spell twisting the recharge speed increase is bad. The damage bonus doesn't do much since you need to have arcane powers slotted to generate arcane stacks and so it is a really small boost over all. I would either change the condition or double the damage bonus to cold powers.
Offhand bonuses:
Fix all related bugs.
What I would not change:
- Storm Spell
- Evocation
- Swath of Destruction
- Critical Conflagration
- Combustive Action
What I would consider nerfing:Chilling Presence: Would reduce to 1/2/3/4% not 2/4/6/8%. Would then buff the base damage of every CW ability by 20%. (This results in a very slight DPS increase for CWs using CP, but means that it is no longer necessary to slot CP if you want to do DPS. Currently CP is more than twice as good as its closest competitor for DPS.)
What is fine as is but could maybe be reworked:
Eye of the Storm.
I would also fix all bugs related to each feature.
ON topic arcane presence: disintegrate is enough i think to build arcane stack pretty fast to get advantage of this feature.
A spellstorm mage can remove the storm spell vs a boss in exchange for more boost on cold powers?
Can storm spell have the same proc rates with single target encounters to make it superior to arcane presence vs a boss?
About recharge speed even better even if you have spell twisting and hastening light and aura of wisdom. That means you pay lesser attention to cast an att will to consume a spell twisting stack and you focus to cast more hard hit encounters due the increased recharge speed.
MoF Renegade can actually debuff itself and Oppressor doesn't always seem to add the extra chill stacks for it's Sudden Storm as it should along with a few others... All wizard's would also be well served if Arcane Stacks were extended by 1-2s to the base mechanic before being required to refresh.
Then with 2 of the class powers at 60+: One for Arcane and the other for Chill each should also further extend the length of Arcane or Chill stacks another .5-2s depending on which class power is chosen.
Wizard's have too many class powers that most don't use because their aren't enough benefit's to aid them in their fight. I've long believed Wizard's need a 'slight' boost. While I still hope their day is coming I'm at least glad Cleric's finally after the 2nd or 3rd attempt finally got a real increase after several reviews.
I would like to see something like this again for the CW class:
I am sure at this point, most people playing the game looking at this video have no idea what they are seeing. (Ignore the fact that it is from a DC PoV, you can sort of see what the CWs are doing since there are 3 of them.) Yes, it is a Control Wizard, not a Proc Wizard, which we have been ever since.
And why do we have so many CC immun mobs?
Funyn video ^^. Reminds me to the "good" ole times where my TR was used to stealth from campfire to campfire and only thing you needed was enough CWs with Singu and repell. Wasnt that a exploit to push the adds over this edge?
But check how long the bossfight was
And i loved the fact that a CW could CC mobs. Why did they change that?
Or karrundax....or frozen heart or all the other old dungeons. Every boss got adds and you have be very carefull. Now? It looks like " OK. Enough buff / debuff in group? Just burn the boss down!" except SP...there some mechanics but easy ...where are the old good mechanics?
Bring back adds that need controlling and add an extra tier of dungeons normal, epic and effin freaking hard
@asterdahl
Any chance that devs will have a look on the CW class?