The new "gaming" of the solo queue?

chestnut13
chestnut13 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 176 Arc User
I was very much looking forward to the solo queue as I always do but it seems there is some serious gaming going on and it's pretty pathetic.

1. Three days in a row now, I come up against a toon that is nearly BIS and is destroying people. I am 13.8K IL WK TR and I'm not great but I can hold my own against most opponents. (that means it's a while before I eventually die!) After gg is called, I check the toons to see their build, etc. In all three cases, the toon's IL is in the 11.5K range. One was a GF that was faster than any toon I've ever seen and continually one shot me. 4 mystics, all legendary arti equip, and mod 11+ weapons, and all rank 12's.

2. The queue constantly resets on player declines. Over and over before you can get in.

My assumption is that the premade contingent is gaming the queue but I could be wrong. Anyone else experience this? If it is people gaming, they really are disgusting wanks.
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Comments

  • trentbail21
    trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    I love solo que when its actually solo que too man.. but ya people always try to do fishy things.

    1. Guardian fighters are just blatantly overpowered and will probably be fixed mod 12b or 13.. which is WAYYYYY TO long to fix it in my opinion.

    Here is a link to a jpg that i put on imgur showing what one of the developers said about it. http://imgur.com/a/LplKS

    2. Some xbox players do this too when the event is out. they attempt to sync their ques so they all get into the same match while secretly hoping they all get on the team so they can get an easy win. For some reason they think this is fair.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • chestnut13
    chestnut13 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    etelgrin said:

    it looks like learn2play issue from what its written,

    Even @morenthar retired his WK TR from PvP and eventually respecced into MI, while I think this guy stood really well on his WK build (I always respected unpopular builds, curious minds).

    You should be able at this gear to keep the GF perma-CBed and in Smoke Bomb to the point where he isn't threatening anymore to the party as a whole even, which means if you disable the GF your other allies also won't die, spite the fact that you could just play 1 game and come here crying, it isn't that bad, play more and some games are really nice.

    (sigh) Sometimes you wonder if people actually read a post. (learn2play issue? more like learn2read) This isn't about the deficiencies of a WK or any crying, or how to deal with a GF, or how to use CB. I've played since beta. I know what I'm doing. With the GF in question, my team won.

    This is about deliberate cheating and gaming the system. I want to be very clear. The three instances I experienced all had toons (2 TR's and 1 GF) that were BIS or darn close and yet had IL's in the mid 11K range. Ostorian rings, Trans enchants, ... the works. I know what it is like to play against an 11K toon. It's not normally a challenge. The only intent for these players is to deceive.

    PVP, which once was an enjoyable and exciting part of the game, became an absolute joke quite some time ago. Why? Because the devs allowed certain guilds and premades to ruin the casual gamers experience. I stopped playing for this reason. The solo queue, although not well thought out from a dev perspective, was a step in the right direction to level the playing field and allow the casual player to find some semblance of fun playing against other humans.

    It amazes me that individual players actually seek out ways to cheat and deceive the system in order to ruin fair gameplay. The selfishness and stupidity of these players is appalling. The regular queue is always there. Go team up with your premade buds and stomp anyone foolish enough to play there. I have no issue with there being an elite team level. This is about general disgust for those who actively seek to ruin other player's experiences by abusing the system.
  • emilemo
    emilemo Member Posts: 1,718 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    GFs are huge offenders in my mind as long as balance is concerned. Very tough, fast, capable of stun-lock and dishing out a burst second only to the top 1-hit killl rogues and some PB crazy rangers. Add to that their awesome, party wide buff and you have to ask where is the balance. They have no weak poitns. GWFs who built tough need some time to build up their damage and even then its not rly dangerous to bis toons, Paladins are only dangerous in troll premades ( 2dc + 2 op).

    Class balance overall is a joke so I've pretty much given up on taking pvp seriously
    Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
    Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
  • toadi86#6315
    toadi86#6315 Member Posts: 3 New User
    Hope solo queue get up and add some balance so i dont get premades so use exploits to kill me and make our team stand at our bonefire while i fighting down.there and get killed.and jumped on
  • chestnut13
    chestnut13 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 176 Arc User
    This is NOT a nerf GF thread. That's not the point. Although they should be nerfed .... LOL.

    After chatting with a reluctant abuser, more info on what's occuring (in theory):

    It seems since the change in the way Item Level is calculated, your actual gear only makes small changes in your IL, but your boons make a much larger difference. So it appears that hi level toons that normally are in premades are creating a new Loadout for Solo and Duo Q. Let's assume you are a top geared toon 14.5K and above. You keep all your BIS armor, arti's, enchants, etc. You purposely do NOT take many of your boons, especially ones that have little effect in PVP. You now have a toon that fools the IL algo and gives you a score in the 11K range, while you only have marginally diminished your fighting abilities.

    Now you can fool the matching algo to place you with low level players that you can poon.

    If you do this kind of thing, own it and tell us why you get your jollies out of destroying gameplay for casual players?
  • vinceent1
    vinceent1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,264 Arc User
    so we get customizable que next week if i remember correctly? what will happen? premades start to use customizable que or not? my bet is regular que will be the same as always, almost noone seeks challenge, they want farm kills and get some reward from pvp. i want to be wrong, but i doubt that
  • dsn1118
    dsn1118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    I dont think there is an item level bracket for matching players.I think there was some sort of matching algorithm a long while back(pre-mod EE) but they removed it since it took too long for BIS players to enter with their own matchups. Lowering your item-level will only work to dupe players who jumps to the game looking for ilevel before starting.

    There is an easy way to work around the solo queue system though.All you have to do synchronize your entry time. 4 people will accept together and 5th one will wait to make sure all of their friends in the same match or decline the queue and start from scratch again.All you have to do is to sit at campfire if you end up in the other team. That is probably the same declines @chestnut13 was talking about.

    Easy way to stop this abuse to not show whether other players accepted or not.They should only pop accept/decline buttons

    Edit:I havent seriously played PVP since mod5 so I am not one of abusers
  • pando83
    pando83 Member Posts: 2,562 Arc User
    Most toons with lower ilvl But BoA rings and trans enchants are simply alts of geared players. It's easy to get mounts and insignias for them too. Zen mounts and unbound insignias from AH. Plus many players have alts in their guild too. There you have massive guild boons. Get a few boons and you're 11k ilvl, but stronger than a regular 11k. This is the best way to have a decently strong alt.
    so you might simply meet such alts, going to solo queue for the reduced chance to meet a premade, compared to normal queue.
    Matchmaking is based on elo, so ilvl should not factor right now.

    A part of the pvp community trying to game The solo q system, is another issue. First 2 solo q events got tons of positive feedback from casuals. They were fun for most casuals, based on feedback. Then sync attempts and linked annoying mass declines started ruining it. The accept-decline system should be reworked to be jerk-proof...
  • kalina311
    kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,079 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    EXACT QUOTE FROM @rgutscheradev PVP DOES NOT READ ITEM LEVEL
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/12946904

    "A few other issues:
    * PvP doesn't "read" item level, so there's no need for a separate PvP item level. Of course, if we ever did start caring about item level for PvP, we'd have to make some adjustments -- just not counting any of the companion-related stuff might be enough. In any case, not a problem for now."
  • kalina311
    kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,079 Arc User
    pando83 said:

    Most toons with lower ilvl But BoA rings and trans enchants are simply alts of geared players. It's easy to get mounts and insignias for them too. Zen mounts and unbound insignias from AH. Plus many players have alts in their guild too. There you have massive guild boons. Get a few boons and you're 11k ilvl, but stronger than a regular 11k. This is the best way to have a decently strong alt.

    so you might simply meet such alts, going to solo queue for the reduced chance to meet a premade, compared to normal queue.

    Matchmaking is based on elo, so ilvl should not factor right now.



    A part of the pvp community trying to game The solo q system, is another issue. First 2 solo q events got tons of positive feedback from casuals. They were fun for most casuals, based on feedback. Then sync attempts and linked annoying mass declines started ruining it. The accept-decline system should be reworked to be jerk-proof...


    +1
    thanks for unraveling this conspiracy theory and explaining
  • sh00termcl0vin
    sh00termcl0vin Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    "Gfs have no weakpoints"

    I loled.

    I guess you have never seen a TR perma cb perma smoke before.
    image
  • deathklaat666
    deathklaat666 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 61 Arc User
    I too was looking forward to the Solo Queue being Permanant.
  • wintersmoke
    wintersmoke Member Posts: 1,632 Arc User
    kalina311 said:

    EXACT QUOTE FROM @rgutscheradev PVP DOES NOT READ ITEM LEVEL
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/12946904

    "A few other issues:
    * PvP doesn't "read" item level, so there's no need for a separate PvP item level. Of course, if we ever did start caring about item level for PvP, we'd have to make some adjustments -- just not counting any of the companion-related stuff might be enough. In any case, not a problem for now."

    You are right, PvP doesn't read Item Level. But it DOES read something. There is some reason why in a random queue, some players end up being matched together more often than not. The current theory ( no proof on either side ) is that the queue respects Guild/Alliance membership & friends lists. I would test this, but the truth is, I don't really want to go out of my way to make friends with a bunch of pug-stompers 0,o

  • plavia
    plavia Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    1) now i see more premade than before. its not clear how this new Q system will work but we need to give it some time.
    there are many PVP channels you can join now, it might help you get a better match

    2) with all complains TR, HR, GWF... it is clerics and warlockss that got nerf.
    all the classes got boost to the damage.
    CW and HR trapper are very dangerous now with both control and DPS.
    GF and OP are even stronger than before, and even GWF burst me if i give thema a sec.
    i play cleric and now every class can kill me in 1:1. last wekk it was not possible



    *i think astral shield absorb piercing damage now, not sure but i think its a bug
  • mamalion1234
    mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,379 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    plavia said:

    1) now i see more premade than before. its not clear how this new Q system will work but we need to give it some time.
    there are many PVP channels you can join now, it might help you get a better match

    2) with all complains TR, HR, GWF... it is clerics and warlockss that got nerf.
    all the classes got boost to the damage.
    CW and HR trapper are very dangerous now with both control and DPS.
    GF and OP are even stronger than before, and even GWF burst me if i give thema a sec.
    i play cleric and now every class can kill me in 1:1. last wekk it was not possible



    *i think astral shield absorb piercing damage now, not sure but i think its a bug

    astral shield always absorbed all kinds of damage( the empowered one).
    piercing ignores deflect and damage resist nothing else.

    Question half as effective penetration in pvp means : if i have 10000 penetration in pvp is 5000? .
    . 2nd question does armor penetration can penetrate buffed dr like bull charge-unstopable-negation- villain menace etc. etc.?
    3rd question armor penetration can penetrate tenacity damage resist? .
    thanks.



    Post edited by mamalion1234 on
  • wdj40
    wdj40 Member Posts: 1,958 Arc User

    I was very much looking forward to the solo queue as I always do but it seems there is some serious gaming going on and it's pretty pathetic.

    1. Three days in a row now, I come up against a toon that is nearly BIS and is destroying people. I am 13.8K IL WK TR and I'm not great but I can hold my own against most opponents. (that means it's a while before I eventually die!) After gg is called, I check the toons to see their build, etc. In all three cases, the toon's IL is in the 11.5K range. One was a GF that was faster than any toon I've ever seen and continually one shot me. 4 mystics, all legendary arti equip, and mod 11+ weapons, and all rank 12's.

    2. The queue constantly resets on player declines. Over and over before you can get in.

    My assumption is that the premade contingent is gaming the queue but I could be wrong. Anyone else experience this? If it is people gaming, they really are disgusting wanks.

    I have personally seen a couple of Guild's queue manipulate unfortunately, when you get 3-4 of a Guild on the same side and one on your side who does exactly naff all the whole game. Also the queue declining is a good indicatior a group is doing that.

    I have had a few games today where 2-3 of my group are just sitting at the camp and it winds me up so much. Just get out of the game if you are not going to play it, who care if you die 20 times. I have had a lot of games with a lot of kills and no deaths... at the same time I have had my HAMSTER handed to me a few times etc.

    I have to admit the very last game I played it was me against 5 and I ended up rage quitting for the very 1st time. The 5 (some well known players) literally ganged up on me and even though I posted in chat to try to make my team move... they still ganged up on me lol.

    Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only
    Alts :
    Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)

    Member of Q-Snipe
  • wdj40
    wdj40 Member Posts: 1,958 Arc User

    kalina311 said:

    EXACT QUOTE FROM @rgutscheradev PVP DOES NOT READ ITEM LEVEL
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/12946904

    "A few other issues:
    * PvP doesn't "read" item level, so there's no need for a separate PvP item level. Of course, if we ever did start caring about item level for PvP, we'd have to make some adjustments -- just not counting any of the companion-related stuff might be enough. In any case, not a problem for now."

    You are right, PvP doesn't read Item Level. But it DOES read something. There is some reason why in a random queue, some players end up being matched together more often than not. The current theory ( no proof on either side ) is that the queue respects Guild/Alliance membership & friends lists. I would test this, but the truth is, I don't really want to go out of my way to make friends with a bunch of pug-stompers 0,o

    I dont believe this at all, at least on the xbox... I fought a few of my Guild mates and Alliances mates in various games today. I only got matched up randomly with 1 of my Guild. I fought them and Alliance members waaaaaaay more than they were Allies today. I literally played for about 8hrs today in solo PvP I think. I even fought against a few players on my friends list.
    Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only
    Alts :
    Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)

    Member of Q-Snipe
  • wdj40
    wdj40 Member Posts: 1,958 Arc User

    @wdj40



    Alot times you see people at the campfire because the other team is full of 14k il players with PvP gear, while your team has 6k il players missing artifacts and wearing green gear from the elemental evil leveling zones.



    They start begging for caps and run around trying to get their caps calling "gg" and asking to trade caps. There is really no point in trying to play a match like that because you get 5v1 while your teammates get sneezed on and die. Then they get on alts and rinse and repeat because they usually end up back in your team again......



    I don't begrudge anyone for sitting at the campfire in a situation like that, and it happens quite frequently during the solo q because people think they are being nice by giving them points. However all this does is make people think it is ok to q and beg for points when you have no gear and no interest in trying to upgrade your character prior to entering pvp.

    Yeah I understand why some people do it but it is so frustrating still. I mean I have played the game to death and earned all my gear and runes through grinding. I am not daft and did not jump in to PvP until I was pretty well equipped and others should really do the same. At least Rank 10 Runes, Legendary equipment, Boons and Mythic Artefacts.

    But some people have a pretty decent IL and once their team starts to lose or they die a few times then they just sit at the fire. I actually kicked one of my Guild members twice today lol, once for not even attempting to play the game literally sat at the fire from the start... then another game they got killed 10 times (even though the scores were 400 each and I was doing well) then sat at the fire.

    I came up against your GWF in one of the games I played yesterday, have to say dude you hit like a truck... very painful indeed ha ha :)
    Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only
    Alts :
    Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)

    Member of Q-Snipe
  • wintersmoke
    wintersmoke Member Posts: 1,632 Arc User

    @wdj40



    Alot times you see people at the campfire because the other team is full of 14k il players with PvP gear, while your team has 6k il players missing artifacts and wearing green gear from the elemental evil leveling zones.



    They start begging for caps and run around trying to get their caps calling "gg" and asking to trade caps. There is really no point in trying to play a match like that because you get 5v1 while your teammates get sneezed on and die. Then they get on alts and rinse and repeat because they usually end up back in your team again......



    I don't begrudge anyone for sitting at the campfire in a situation like that, and it happens quite frequently during the solo q because people think they are being nice by giving them points. However all this does is make people think it is ok to q and beg for points when you have no gear and no interest in trying to upgrade your character prior to entering pvp.

    So, at what Item Level should players be allowed to queue for PvP?

  • wdj40
    wdj40 Member Posts: 1,958 Arc User
    edited August 2017

    @wdj40



    Alot times you see people at the campfire because the other team is full of 14k il players with PvP gear, while your team has 6k il players missing artifacts and wearing green gear from the elemental evil leveling zones.



    They start begging for caps and run around trying to get their caps calling "gg" and asking to trade caps. There is really no point in trying to play a match like that because you get 5v1 while your teammates get sneezed on and die. Then they get on alts and rinse and repeat because they usually end up back in your team again......



    I don't begrudge anyone for sitting at the campfire in a situation like that, and it happens quite frequently during the solo q because people think they are being nice by giving them points. However all this does is make people think it is ok to q and beg for points when you have no gear and no interest in trying to upgrade your character prior to entering pvp.

    So, at what Item Level should players be allowed to queue for PvP?

    That is not for me to decide or tell people really. IL still does not reflect every single thing that effects your character anyway.

    All I suggest is play the PvE and grind like everyone else. Then when you have completed all the Campaigns (or at least 2 out of the 3 final Boons of some of them like ToD), got yourself competitive Weapons (also PvE Campaigns etc) and max them out, all Enchants up to Rank 10 and preferably Trans Weapon & Armour mods and finally some PvP equipment.

    Only then are you ready for PvP, but dont fool yourself into thinking it will be easy to be competitive.

    If you dont have at least all of the above you will probably just get smacked around and be a liability.
    Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only
    Alts :
    Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)

    Member of Q-Snipe
  • wintersmoke
    wintersmoke Member Posts: 1,632 Arc User
    wdj40 said:


    So, at what Item Level should players be allowed to queue for PvP?



    That is not for me to decide or tell people really. IL still does not reflect every single thing that effects your character anyway.

    All I suggest is play the PvE and grind like everyone else. Then when you have completed all the Campaigns (or at least 2 out of the 3 final Boons of some of them like ToD), got yourself competitive Weapons (also PvE Campaigns etc) and max them out, all Enchants up to Rank 10 and preferably Trans Weapon & Armour mods and finally some PvP equipment.

    Only then are you ready for PvP, but dont fool yourself into thinking it will be easy to be competitive.

    If you dont have at least all of the above you will probably just get smacked around and be a liability.

    If PvP unlocked at lvl 70, I could almost go along with that. The problem is... PvP unlocks @ lvl 12. Level. Twelve. PvP is obviously not meant to be only for the BIS gearz/bewnz monsters. It has become that, but that is obviously not WAI.

  • grampyrulz#4209
    grampyrulz#4209 Member Posts: 95 Arc User
    Seems I remember a brief period of time recently on PS4 when you did not get to see accepts and declines for the queues and I'm pretty sure there was very little warning as to when the map was loading. Don't know if it was intended or not, but seems like that might help alleviate ppl trying to go around the solo queue.
  • wintersmoke
    wintersmoke Member Posts: 1,632 Arc User

    Seems I remember a brief period of time recently on PS4 when you did not get to see accepts and declines for the queues and I'm pretty sure there was very little warning as to when the map was loading. Don't know if it was intended or not, but seems like that might help alleviate ppl trying to go around the solo queue.

    It happened on PC too... I don't have any idea whether it was planned or not. It WAS reported as a bug & there was ... not outrage, that would be the wrong word. But, enuff players complained that it was fixed pretty darn quick. It would absolutely be worthwile, if it is reproducible to add this mechanic to solo-queue.
  • khandran#2092
    khandran#2092 Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    1 - yes GF discussions have been on for a long time. Most agree that it overperforms +
    emilemo said:

    GFs are huge offenders in my mind as long as balance is concerned. Very tough, fast, capable of stun-lock and dishing out a burst second only to the top 1-hit killl rogues and some PB crazy rangers. Add to that their awesome, party wide buff and you have to ask where is the balance. They have no weak poitns. GWFs who built tough need some time to build up their damage and even then its not rly dangerous to bis toons, Paladins are only dangerous in troll premades ( 2dc + 2 op).

    Class balance overall is a joke so I've pretty much given up on taking pvp seriously

    this! I liked idea of pvp but left the game a couple of times because it caused me so much frustration. Came back. Never satisfying though and I agree that class balance is in the gutter.

    2- Does not surprise me. My experience has been like that too.
    pando83 said:


    A part of the pvp community trying to game The solo q system, is another issue. First 2 solo q events got tons of positive feedback from casuals. They were fun for most casuals, based on feedback. Then sync attempts and linked annoying mass declines started ruining it. The accept-decline system should be reworked to be jerk-proof...

    haha yes jerk proof is needed ;) Good luck with that, but post pretty much sums up the sad state.
  • miyanaa
    miyanaa Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 72 Arc User
    pando83 said:


    A part of the pvp community trying to game The solo q system, is another issue. First 2 solo q events got tons of positive feedback from casuals. They were fun for most casuals, based on feedback. Then sync attempts and linked annoying mass declines started ruining it. The accept-decline system should be reworked to be jerk-proof...


    Quite a few games have this thing where if you decline too many times in a row (or too often in general), it bans you from queue for 30mins, few hours, 24hrs or perma ban from pvp for the whole module/season/whatever. Same with people who leave matches.
    But I guess Neverwinter cant really afford that, would lose even more players ^^

    It still amazes me that some people enjoy so called "pug stomping"... we have a private queue now, people can do 5v5s there or 1v1s, really anything they want.
    Leaderboard is broken as hell, so good stats dont even prove anything anymore. Well, did they ever prove anythin? Nope.

    So my advice, to whoever wants to PvP, would be to try and find people within your gear or just some nice people and do pvp in private queue.
    Its so much more fun this way, and it can be casual too. Try to pvp with people from guild or alliance.




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  • hirogarde
    hirogarde Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    miyanaa said:

    Quite a few games have this thing where if you decline too many times in a row (or too often in general), it bans you from queue for 30mins, few hours, 24hrs or perma ban from pvp for the whole module/season/whatever. Same with people who leave matches.
    But I guess Neverwinter cant really afford that, would lose even more players ^^

    I don't think a 1-5min penalty would "break" the system, but it would allow (in most cases) for actual solo-queue-ers to have an opportunity to not be in a perpetual cycle of accept-wait-reaccept-rewait-etc.

    On a side note: If you're a solo player, try queueing in the open queue system. While Pug-stompers are trying to sync in solo-queue, the "fun" PvPers are still queueing in the open queue. Since the Solo queue started, I've filled in a few times for a team of four that turned into some good (seemingly balanced) PvP experiences.
  • tripsofthrymr
    tripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
    Feature suggestion: If you decline the solo PVP queue X times in Y minutes, you're either gaming the system or wasting other people's time. Remove the ability to solo queue PVP for an hour.
    Caritas Guild Founder (Greycloak Alliance)

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