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Illogical and inconsistent endgame

ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
Back in the early days of the game, progression and endgame challenges had some common sense to them. Liches and dracoliches. A beholder in the endgame of endgame dungeons. Another hellhole of a dungeon infested with mindflayers.

Then came Icewind Dale. The twist to it made it work. Magically charged black ice. But then, wtf? Now IWD has been reduced to near baby content. The once ugly but magically charged gear isn't even used today. How is this new primal armor the endgame of endgame armor now? It makes no sense. It's like a US marine becoming a caveman with a club and rags. Relic armor makes sense. Rediscovered from an ancient past.

Then came Tyranny of Dragons. Dragons, you can't go wrong with that. With a Demi-God slapped on top. That freakin sounds like endgame. But then another wtf. A titanic big wtf. Dragons are assembly line slaughter houses now. Even beholders and mindflayers recieved the same treatment. A demi-God reduced to the baby of raids.

The demon campaign. Well since their introduction they instantly became slaughter house factories. Demons never even needed to be in physical contact to be dangerous. Demon princes reduced to being meh.

SKT, at least Giants aren't pushovers, yet.

Mages from the far realm. It works out. Dunno why a dryad and human enemies require thousands of bullets to kill, but it all seems to work for endgame. Dragons are still dropping like flies, but w/e.

Dinosaurs. Not only that but they have skin so thick you need better penetration. How is a peanut brain T-Rex so much more powerful than a dragon. We be slaughtering those dragons like baby dwarves but not no dinosaur. Look, a T-Rex.... So scary, after I got done killing 300 dragons. Why am I running away again? Maybe if it was the one a from Turok I'd have an excuse to run. After committing practically demon genocide, I'm really scared of some much smaller velociraptors. Holy #%$ sauce batman, I need a .45 magnum to put these things down. I'm getting smashed over the head by Giants and I won't flinch but these things just tap me and I start convulsing.

Maybe the monster manual was flipped over and you just start out at level 1 murdering dragons and HAMSTER from the underdark. Is that what happened? I don't remember it being radically altered in any way.

Comments

  • clericalistclericalist Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 595 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    In terms of lore, yes its illogical, but nobody can realistically plan ahead so far in any MMO game to make sure each new released content has the correct level of difficulty compared to the previous one AND also matches the the D&D lore. If they only decided to put in super hard dragons in module 16, that would be a much bigger problem.

    With regards to Tiamat specifically, they had to make Tiamat easier because otherwise new players would never be able to have success there, one solution is to have different levels of difficulties like they do for Demogorgon and Svarbard, they need to however somehow create incentives for the BIS speed runners to stay away from the easier levels because its really annoying for new players to not be able to do anything in those dungeons.
  • fizgigtiznalkie#4436 fizgigtiznalkie Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    Yeah, what would you have them do? Retread old content? Only add new content if it's more powerful according to the old manuals? Only make new content as tough as it should be fitting into the current content? We already hate all the level 60 events where you walk around one-shotting everything.
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,093 Arc User
    in terms of end content this games sucks, theres no such thing as end game, noticed that end game player in preview can easily melt tomb of the nine Gods(they have good party synergy, they just need dragon keys and unlock it from campaign, like underdark(demogorgon to unlock on campaign), skt(Fbi and sva to unlock from campaign), cloack ascendancy(msp need to be unlock from campaign), how about upgrade for higher ranks tier etos/ecc/egwd or the other dungeons that were removed from game, dont wait for new modules and have differennts mobs to revamp the dungeons, those one shots that ecc had from the archer could be add to higher tier dungeon making it challenging (that was not good for newly lvl70 back then, but good for nowadays end game player).
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,388 Arc User
    -
    arcanjo86 said:

    in terms of end content this games sucks, theres no such thing as end game, noticed that end game player in preview can easily melt tomb of the nine Gods(they have good party synergy, they just need dragon keys and unlock it from campaign, like underdark(demogorgon to unlock on campaign), skt(Fbi and sva to unlock from campaign), cloack ascendancy(msp need to be unlock from campaign), how about upgrade for higher ranks tier etos/ecc/egwd or the other dungeons that were removed from game, dont wait for new modules and have differennts mobs to revamp the dungeons, those one shots that ecc had from the archer could be add to higher tier dungeon making it challenging (that was not good for newly lvl70 back then, but good for nowadays end game player).

    arcanjo86 said:

    in terms of end content this games sucks, theres no such thing as end game, noticed that end game player in preview can easily melt tomb of the nine Gods(they have good party synergy, they just need dragon keys and unlock it from campaign, like underdark(demogorgon to unlock on campaign), skt(Fbi and sva to unlock from campaign), cloack ascendancy(msp need to be unlock from campaign), how about upgrade for higher ranks tier etos/ecc/egwd or the other dungeons that were removed from game, dont wait for new modules and have differennts mobs to revamp the dungeons, those one shots that ecc had from the archer could be add to higher tier dungeon making it challenging (that was not good for newly lvl70 back then, but good for nowadays end game player).

    DO they have good party synergy or gear now lead to success by 80% of the times?

    We do understand that some groups may be geared enough to largely ignore these effects, but we hope plenty of you enjoy learning to master the fight. We will continue to watch the data and consider making adjustments. THAT is the dev comment in tomb of the nine thread.

    IF you are geared you can ignore mechanics which never was the case until module 3.
  • bawkrubawkru Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    ya i can contest to this we need a button that says "legendary" versions of each of the current skirmish and dungeons. as of right now a 14.5k dc can solo all 5 man dungeons except for fbi and msp and in all honesty it has been about like that sense mod 4 and that kinda sad i need something that says the dungeon i am entering or queuing for is fit for my skill / gear and we dont have that atm. i mean what u have to do double mob stats and add 25% chance at higher tiered loots so that i dont get rank 5's but i get rank7-8's and not a peridot but epic rp, or boss have a chance of dropping current end game items like relic armors and rd weps would be probably the most extreme loots. even if no one can do it, it is still worth the try.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,612 Arc User
    ...level 73 kobolds...
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    Originally just a joke.

    But why didn't they just level out all of endgame and make them even? It's pretty bad design to make a single campaign with equipment that reduces everything else to trivial levels.

    You finish it.... and that's it. That single thing is your endgame. Everything else you done is now a walk in the park, and you're begging for more endgame... which will just be another grind + single dungeon.

    How backwards has the game become where 12 modules later, and the original launch of the game provided more endgame challenges to pick from?

    For @#$%s sake at least give us an option to be able to scale up mob damage or hitpoints while soloing or as a party leader. THAT would be a nice feature if they have zero time to actually make multi-tier dungeons.
  • xinexixxinexix Member Posts: 248 Arc User
    To late their already working on mod 13. By the time they put a mod on preview it's pretty much already in maintenance mode and they are working on the next one.

  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,612 Arc User
    That would be 12b, then. Not 13.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    If the next threat are Gnomes with dwarfism, I'll happily accept the nonsense. If the TR makeover freakin comes with it.
  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,542 Community Moderator
    greywynd said:

    That would be 12b, then. Not 13.

    There have been enough hits from certain devs on here that they are already working on Mod 13.
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  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,612 Arc User
    kreatyve said:



    There have been enough hits from certain devs on here that they are already working on Mod 13.

    Without a mini-mod first? Madness!

    Seriously, they need to do something that isn't driven by WotC, like get back to the Elemental Eye story.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,612 Arc User
    If you're already past it, why?

    I want to know what Devir is doing with Vanifer.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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