@rgutscheradev I agree with @ejziponken points. The Trapper HR and oppressor CW might get the short end of the stick with the changes. How is courage breaker and smoke bomb affected by the control immunity changes?
The current state of pvp relies on piercing and high burst from GWF's and GF's because DC's (and to some extent OP's) make the team invincible. Empowered astral shield and gift of faith are the main culprits, both should be evaluated especially with the changes to CC.
Guild: Ruthless Character: Vendetta
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
@rgutscheradev Thank you for continued exemplary engagement with the players!
As the founder of a smaller guild oriented toward newer players, the private queue will be great for introducing new people to PVP. With the rewards entirely removed, however, new players aren't going to want to spend tons of time in that play mode. There will be no feeling of progress.
Have you given any thought to keeping the reward mechanism hooked up after all, perhaps with daily or weekly limitations?
I understand your concern about easy exploitation, but that's already a problem with the current system. I'm not sure the potential for more exploitation outweighs the benefit to legitimate players that want to play with guildies in a "safe" (if that word's ever appropriate to PVP) manner.
@rgutscheradev I agree with @ejziponken points. The Trapper HR and oppressor CW might get the short end of the stick with the changes. How is courage breaker and smoke bomb affected by the control immunity changes?
The current state of pvp relies on piercing and high burst from GWF's and GF's because DC's (and to some extent OP's) make the team invincible. Empowered astral shield and gift of faith are the main culprits, both should be evaluated especially with the changes to CC.
I agree here. I think its important to remember these are not going LIVE right now but will be going to the PTR to test.
So I too am leery of changes to CW and HR and the DC being hard to kill due to Emp AS... But we will see. This change to Crit Resistance -> now reduce merely crit severity its a REALLY good buff to crit damage. Meaning more classes SHOULD be running crit for higher burst damage. This also means that crits on an Emp DC are likely to not see 0,0,0,0 (maybe).
Also, the fact that CC resist is removed means that INITIAL CC will be stronger. So all this COULD mean that a GF saves his Bullcharge to punt DC out of AS for the right time, which then opens the DC up to be nuked by much more lethal crit damage than we have now.
This is all speculation. Again I am leery, but we will find out only through testing.
Also the CC change NERFED GFs damage. So people need to chill. GFs rely on combo chains to kill people. The combo was several moves long involving BC->GW(more than once)-> daily. Which now if a GF does BC->2x GW this would put them at what? immunity to CC making daily not CC... Point being there are too many changes to theory craft how this will affect everything.
I, for one, am excited to test the PTR after this. I am sure we will want to make adjustments to classes and #s etc. But we wont know till we test!!!
Omg im almost lost for words. Thank you so much for that last post developers. Really thank you so much for finally giving us attention to all the topics that have been bothering us for so long. When these changes go live i will be sure to give you all some money to the game.
Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
... This is a long-standing issue in the respect that all proc-on-deflect effects can trigger outside of a combat situation, even in a no-combat location like a town. I've often said it jokingly, but we apparently deflect absolutely everything all the time, right down to NPCs breathing on you. ...
The one thing that everyone did agree on was that the potion stuff is stupid. That also affects PvE -- it's just plain not fun to drink/eat/read 27 potions/foods/scrolls before every big fight (or to feel bad that you didn't). It's also something that's been messed up for a long time (and honestly it just annoys me!) so I am going to jump to that. I'll be making a pretty simple fix: all the various consumables will go into something like half a dozen categories, and you can have one thing from each category. Right now the groups I'm thinking of are Potion, Elixir (things like Wild Storm), Stronghold Food, Event Food, Invocation buff, Event non-food (mostly the scrolls), and reusables (Tymora Coin, etc.). That might change -- potion and elixir could be combined, or event and stronghold food. If people have strong opinions about having more vs. fewer categories, now is a good time to let me know. But in any case reducing from 25 things to a much smaller number (whether it be 5 or 7) should be a help.
I know most people are chiming in in favour of rolling all the foods (SH and event) into one category, but I'm side-eying that with the worthlessness of most of said food buffs. Paired with the fact that SH foods persist through death and event foods don't, this would trash the last bit of use for most event foods, except maybe the ones affecting X severity if players are strongly choosing to stack that over power. So many foods, so few of them actually practical.
Sophi's reference graphic also doesn't take into account that the Hero's Feast buff is applied by standing in it, not eating it, but overwrites other event foods, a complaint at public events when someone throws one down on top of players who have previously chosen their own buffs. Someone checked this for me recently, and it still did, unless there's a trick of doing it in a specific order to get both buffs at once.
On the subject of reusable "consumables", making it possible to only have one in effect at time is -1 inventory to anyone with both Coin and Pocket Pet (or throw out whichever you now consider less useful). There's also the Miniature Giant Space Hamster (which people want to use because it's cute, not so much because the regen buff is powerful) and the Endurent Permafrost Shard wotsit (currently causing loadout issues?). Be careful with these.
Only being able to have one invoke buff at a time, as long as you can chug them until you get the buff you want, oh well, it was good while it lasted.
I know the potion situation is collectively too much. I know that reducing the number of things that can be used concurrently will also reel in PvE facerolling to some degree.
There are also specific niche potions applying to fighting dragons, playing in Everfrost content, wearing gear with Black Ice charging, maybe others I am forgetting. Will these be excluded?
There will be economic fallout. Selling potions to PvPers (and other aggressively buff-stacking players) was accessible income for a lot of players who are less concerned with using every tool in the drawer all the time. That's more observation than complaint, but the nice thing about selling consumables was that they need to be replaced constantly. You don't get that from any other type of item.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE nerf Endless Consumption. .... This needs to be changed... Im not a fan of an ICD but if you need to put one, whatever. I would RATHER just see this provide like 5% more lifesteal CHANCE though....
This would be a much simpler boon but still strong. It would make it more useful for lower-geared players, much like the lifesteal chance boon choice in ToD. An alternative would be to change it to lifesteal severity, which is a fairly common option in later campaigns, making it boost the strength of whatever lifesteal you have, but taking out both the proc factor and the chance of massive random heals.
first thing please make sure that were are keeping PVE separate from PVP, I want t make sure nothing your doing is going to effect PVE players, you should make companions work inside PVP as well to make it more interesting lol, mess with PVP al you want lol that's were 90% of the crying comes from anyhow, I haven't PVPed really in like 2 years because of how unbalanced that is, last time im pvped was with paladin to exzact revenge on the whole pvp realm because Paladins were OP asf lol
Moderator removed mild flaming.
Companion bonuses should be *removed* entirely from all PVP modes. Their presence is one of the reasons why Siege Stronghold PVP is all but unplayable.
IS fine as it is with companions why not ?:) you have gg and domination without companions. HAve siege and icewind to be with companion what is the problem?
BUT i dont remember pvpers rejecting this place when released i saw pvpers to play with their companions " to get the gear" .
Edit: @ayroux : For me, Endless needs rework like adding a +15% to LSS instead of just +5% to be more on line with the new "last tier" boons. but well, that it needs a nerf for both PvP AND PvE is obvious... is one of those old relics from old mechanics...
Im fine either way, I have no commitment to lifesteal % or lifesteal Severity. the reason I suggested lifesteal % is that lower geared players have a hard time getting a reliable % super easy. So this could be a source of it. Life Steal Severity wouldnt be a bad option either at like 10% or 15%.
There are a TON of ways this could go. Could completely remake it altogether. A SIMPLE solution would be either pure lifesteal % or Lifesteal Severity though and call it good.
Can you please fix the stronghold group stats boon?
And once you die, you will loose the all the stats except the first one.
This is the big one. I dont know what limitations apply or how it works, but the group stat boon could get some love. Having it persist through death would be one nice improvement. Right now, you can have your entire team select it, but if you die, you lose all the benefits (except for just the solo benefit I believe). Its a very awkward boon atm.
I am a HUGE fan of keeping things simple though and would just advocate for them to nerf the overall stat # at 5 people using this, but then remove the wonky requirements to have people using the boon etc. I know the goal is to make this a "team" boon so IMO the best thing would be to just take the 2400 of each stat and divide that by 5 and then re-multiply that by the # of people in your party. This way, it only gives you the max benefit IN a party. So, If solo, you get 1/5th the stats (480 each). If you are in a group of 3 you would have 1440 each stat. If you are in a group of 5 you would get the full 2400 for each stat.
In spite of the name, Sophi is actually a he, but it's his own fault people keep thinking he's not.
LOL Did the dev just assume my gender? 2017, you are not allowed to do that anymore. I changed toon gender to male long ago because I was tired of my toon getting hit on in game (seriously) and changed name to Sopi and Haxbox and Froggy Kruegar but it wasn't enough. Perhaps I should send out more Dpics.
@rgutscheradev I give +1 to almost everything @macjae and @ejziponken said. Good experienced feedback there. Group stat boon should not rely on all others opting to use it. None of the other SHold boons do.
Thank you for your effort! Prayers answered finally!
I particular agree that GWF doesn't need a buff; most GWF players were just exaggerating the issues. Their only weakness now is CB spamming TRs, who can't even hurt them at all. The class that really is struggling is SW, who really has no place in PvP because nothing they do can't be done better by other classes.
CC needs to be looked at immediately tho, especially CC spamming builds like Trapper HR, Oppressor CW, and Courage Breaker spamming TR. Missed the part about immunity, we'll see how well it works!
Well since this is about pvp stuff, So I will mentioned old problem. @rgutscheradev,
The problem is simple. Temptation Warlocks aura of despair proc deflect and deflect related powers/items/mechanics insanely, and also triggers boons in high rates..
The situation in live server is kinda simple.. AFK player have 90% chance to beat templock in pvp... Either with templock you kill target with 1 or 2 hits. Or u die due procing deflect which lead toward stun due Shadowclad armor enchantment, > then comes deflect dmg boons> Fey Thistle
When you Deflect an attack you deal up to 3000 damage to your attacker. (Proc on every deflected attack. Debuff on attacker and his Damage Resistance affect damage)
Frozen Reflection
When you Deflect an attack you deal up to 5000/6000/7000 damage to your attacker.
And usually along deflect related stuffs comes dmg boons which got triggered due incoming hits.
Avalanche
When damaged by a foe, chance to gain a stack of Avalanche. At 20 Stacks, taking damage will clear the stacks and deal up to 15000 damage to nearby targets.
Also usually ended up with triggering
Elven Ferocity
When striking a foe you have a chance to deal up to 20000 Arcane damage
The problem where reported in bug forum.. But seems thread/post got ignored... Allso would not be surprised that other boons would be also triggered.. Didn't had chance to test properly.. Because templock could not last long. Died within seconds.....
So question. Is there plan to change debuffing auras interactions toward boons, and deflect mechanic?? Or we keep as it is....
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
* TR and HR have probably suffered the most, due to the piercing changes. They were pretty strong before the piercing change, and the actual legit armor pen part of piercing is still strong, so maybe it will be OK. * If it's not OK, TR have some potential easy fixes, like just increasing the base damage on Shocking Execution.
When it comes to TR and HR what i notice the most is a difficulty in applying at-wills in a fight 1vs1 or low control against the enemy, specially TR's since HR's have split strike that has a fairly good range, and there is one of the reasons why the use of courage breaker is a NEED to bring targets down(SW's and GWF) or lock players on a conquered base (other classes).
I don't disagree in buffing Shocking execution, damage is getting reduced around 3 times so i don't see anymore 1 shots, but don't forget hateful knives.
A solution to TR could be: Increase TR's close range at will's range a bit more so that the target doesn't need to be really slowed for they to be applied. Maintain Courage breaker damage reduction as it, increase the slow time and add a stun for the same duration as the slow but make both of these influenced by control resistance.
Trapper HR's can permanently stun a player but deal very little damage, the problem is crushing roots so it's crushing roots that need to be adressed.
Archery: Hum....can't keep bases can't kill....too many problems.
* GWF: Lots of people are saying GWFs are having big PvP problems. Based on our internal playtesting, the regular PvE GWF build isn't so great, but there are other builds that are quite strong. We need to keep watching, but I'm not yet convinced GWF is as terrible as people are saying.
1 thing i notice a lot about GWF's is the inferiority against numbers, for example a GF shielded, there can be 3, 4 people hitting and the player will hold well until a possible escape kill. When it comes to a gwf, the gwf may be able to escape by breaking free (with unstoppable) and in that case there wouldn't be many problems, problems come from prones or courage breaker. Sure there are powers that help like endless avalanche or mighty leap, but those powers are power that are not acceptable in the current meta rotation and they will take the place of another needed power.
When it comes to unstoppable, if a temporary solution turning DR into less damage damage take i can't see why not. Sentinels won't be viable in PVE but a troll tank for PVP taking 80% less damage and dealing none seems interesting at least there will be variability.
About GWF sprint, this one definitively needs to be looked at. The worst case i can tell where this is FBI, using a virtuous build high protection focused, wards against giants etc i cannot maintain GWF's alive, it's a bit due to EF damage, not saying it isn't, but i'm talking of GWF that where for sure at 80% DR and being 1 shoted, i know this is not relative to pvp but a solution fitting both pvp and pve would be the ideal.
* GF: Lots of people are saying this class has too much of everything in PvP. I also don't like where the class is -- burst damage is just not the right role for this class. But nerfing their damage and leaving them with nothing would not be good either. I think GF needs a more thorough revamp. Long term, I'd hope they have a more interference/harassment type role (along, of course, with being tough), but with moderate damage rather than extremely high burst. * If too much of current PvP damage is coming from piercing, we may have a problem with it just being too hard to kill players in PvP. We have a number of options for handling this: lowering the "players take less damage" amount, making AP or Crit Sev more effective, increasing healing depression, or adjusting specific defenses if the problem is limited to just a few defensive powers. This will be another area where your feedback will be very helpful.
If i understand right:
Full DPS vs Full DPS -> Fast fight, wins the best; Full DPS vs Tanky -> Longer fight, wins the best; Tanky vs Tanky -> Very long fight. wins the best;
Well this may be what happens in "beggining game" but surely is not what happens in end game, lowering GF's damage wouldn't be "leaving them with nothing" if the other player's HP wasn't all the way back up by the time of another rotation. So step 1 increasing the healing depression as battle goes on and "linearizing" everything including healing sources that are not affected by healing depression yet. Step 1 won't fix one rotations, one rotations come mainly from prone chains, attack the prone chains and one rotation's get solved. If the 25%/50%/75% immunity includes this, nvm this comment Step 3 there would be even more cases of immortal fights on situation's like GF vs GF where only 1 rotation's now can solve the match otherwise is back to turtle another minute, solution attack stamina regeneration
Another thing that seriously needs attention are powers like Astral shield (i know i am repeating what many people already said, but this really needs to be done) that can mitigate much more damage than equivalent powers in their category, like warding flare for example.
The one thing that everyone did agree on was that the potion stuff is stupid. That also affects PvE -- it's just plain not fun to drink/eat/read 27 potions/foods/scrolls before every big fight (or to feel bad that you didn't). It's also something that's been messed up for a long time (and honestly it just annoys me!) so I am going to jump to that. I'll be making a pretty simple fix: all the various consumables will go into something like half a dozen categories, and you can have one thing from each category. Right now the groups I'm thinking of are Potion, Elixir (things like Wild Storm), Stronghold Food, Event Food, Invocation buff, Event non-food (mostly the scrolls), and reusables (Tymora Coin, etc.). That might change -- potion and elixir could be combined, or event and stronghold food. If people have strong opinions about having more vs. fewer categories, now is a good time to let me know. But in any case reducing from 25 things to a much smaller number (whether it be 5 or 7) should be a help.
Great, just 1 thing i don't agree is reusables, if i have tymora's lucky coin buff i won't be able to use a potion or use a champion's battle horn? I don't think there is a need to adjust this.
Thank you @rgutscheradev!!! Not enough exclamation points to express how happy we are with where this is going! From one programmer to another - I know how extremely tough it is to rig up somebody else's code to even respond to these balance requests. Kudos to everything!
That said, if I could take a little more of your time with my thoughts about these changes -
The crit sev reduction is the requested replacement for the old Tenacity-based Critical Strike Resistance.
This is perfect! As a general buff to crit damage overall, builds will evolve on their own to accommodate or take advantage of it. Healing and DC (specifically their absorption mechanic) may end up being just right, granted everyone will be doing better damage. PvE players will have a larger presence in PvP and my hope is that assimilates more DPS into fights, also taking note that PvE builds are almost always crit builds.
Note control resistance has gone away. It's being replaced by a building immunity as you get hit by control effects (currently 25%/50%/75%/Immune, but we're still tuning it on our end). It's not in the tooltip described above because it will have its own immunity-stack tooltip.
Hands down awesome! If my stacking proposition has, in any way, influenced this or if it's all YOU, want you to know that I and a lot of others completely support this change. It sounds even better! It may be too early at this point, but I'm already curious to know if it's a looping effect that goes 75-100~ back to 0 with no cooldown intervals, or a toggle effect to last for Y seconds with an ICD.
systemic changes are big and should shake up the meta. When we see where things land, we can think about more class-specific tweaks.
I would say so! Changes at the core level of damage and control call for entirely new builds. Classes that are either supposedly weak or supposedly strong may wind up on opposite poles entirely. And until such things are up on preview for experiments, I'd definitely hold off on ANY AND ALL class-specific changes.
Again, so many great things to come! Really excited that there are so much of these changes going on in the background. And just knowing that means the world! Thank you so much!
This is false as hell. If CB were the only problem that the class would faceon PvP... even i would be happy. This is pure and clear BIAS towards the class.
GWF has a greater chance of killing & surviving a GF than other DPS classes. They can also kill CW, HR in 1v1 more easily than the other way around especially how combat HR is getting nerfed soon. Damage and survivability wise they are absolutely fine; it's just that they lack CC but you just can't have the whole package.
The problem with "damage" is that, to reach those amounts, the class needs "some" stacks from certain feat... which: A: last for 4 secs. B: The chances of getting them are 25%... which would make the target player a bad one if he stays for that much time on the GWF's range... C: The actual "healin" system. The survivality of almost all other classes (TRs' 'deflection and CC, GFs' Shield, OPs' Sanctuary... etc)
On THEORY, you're right. In game, the theory is not viable.
The 2 biggest issues GWFs are faced with is a VERY clunky un-reliable stacking system. At max damage their damage is pretty good, maybe even a tad too high (ill leave that up to DEV judegement) but without the "stars alligning" their damage SUCKS.
Also they have zeor dodge mechanic.
So lack of dodge, lack of CC, and a very very stupid "stacking" system ALL leads the GWF to be extremely gear dependent, as well as it removes the ability for the GWF to counterplay counterplay.
What I mean is that if someone knows how GWF works, if they see "this GWF has 2 destroyer stacks up let me merely DODGE and he will lose them" then GG. You just countered GWF.
A GWF needs to stack: 1) Daggers (+40% damage) 2) Destroyer's Purpose (+50%) 3) Destroyer + Focused Destroyer (+46%) 4) Double Mark (+20%+12%) (Note: Or Battle Fury damage % buff)
ALL of these, can be countered. Daggers - we get 3 stacks. So this one isnt BAD it just ruins GWF "variety" in that Daggers is 100% mandatory for all GWF builds. Period.
Destroyers Purpose - we can only gain these in Unstoppable. This is a bit of a "catch 22" because in order to get unstoppable we either need to TAKE a lot of damage or DEAL alot of damage. Well, if GWF isnt being "focused" he cant get this, and without this, he cant deal damage. So if you want to win a node, feel free to ignore the GWF (assuming no current stacks) and he wont do much damage for a while. Now the GOOD about this is these stacks last a long time, so once a GWF does get them he can now deal damage -> get unstoppable again to refresh them.
Double Mark - again "forces" GWFs into 1 build: Iron Vanguard so we can apply Mark via Threat Rush. Then must use Daring Shout (which is a long CD and can be dodged) and/or use Battle Fury + Threat Rush Mark)
THEN FINALLY - The crux of all this: Destroyer and Focused Destroyer. These stacks are the bane of the existence of GWF. They can only apply off an actual HIT (not DOTS - unlike almost any other stacking mechanic in the game), they only have a 25% chance to hit, and they only last 4 seconds.
So a GWF has to be running around, FACETANKING damage, and trying to set up a perfect combo of all these +damage pieces to have a CHANCE (if hits arent deflected) to kill someone.
Now, you might say "you make it sound more complicated than it is! I see GWFs all the time critting for huge numbers and being tanky etc"
Yes - GOOD GWFs have learned to manage all this stuff, but sub-par GEARED GWFs and "mediocre player GWFs" cant do this.
SECOND - It relies more on who you are playing, than the GWF himself. Again, most "average" players dont understand all these mechanics. Once you find someone that does, that knows how to PREVENT you from getting all these "pieces" then you become much much less of a threat.
Nobody wants "EZmode GWF" again like in mod 3 or the Roar GWF we saw in mod 1-2 etc. But I will say the single "crux" of this entire thing is 1 feat: Destroyer/Focused Destroyer.
The fact that these stacks are so easy to counter. They only last 4 seconds, they are hard to GAIN. is the problem. Again I will spell this out - you fight against BAD players who dont understand this mechanic and they DONT COUNTER IT and then GWF can build these easily and BAM they get crit for a ton.
You play against GOOD players who know how to counter this - and the GWF cannot "counter play" that counterplay MEANING the entire "strength of a GWF" ENTIRELY depends on WHO YOU PLAY - not your own "skill level".
This has FOREVER been an issue with balance. QA teams (who dont play to counter GWF) test it, and say "GWF is fine!" Lower skilled players who dont play to counter GWF say "I see no problem" but at the highest skill level of players - they can counter GWF.
My only ask is that we remove this troubling balance mechanic, so that what QA team tests, and what "average players" see is ALSO what high skill players can do.
Increase the duration of Destroyer/Focused Destroyer stacks. To be brutally honest, and I know I will get flame from the PVE players for this, I would be MORE than happy if Focused Destroyer did NOT increase damage, but merely gave you like: 10/20/30/40/50% chance to gain a stack off ANY hit AND increased the duration of destroyer by 1/2/3/4/5 seconds. (I am not committed to these numbers, this is merely to give an example).
Overall this isnt a big damage loss (3.5% * 3 stacks) but this makes destroyer much more reliable across the board. And to the PVE players - this frankly wont be a huge loss of damage, you will still be wanted in parties.
But what this does is helps the QA team BALANCE THE CLASS moving forward. What they experience in "low tier" and "mid tier" PVP will be more similar to what "top tier" is.... this addresses just ONE issue of the GWF - the stacking mechanics.
It doesnt address "no dodge mechanic" and this is where frankly, I think Sprint should reduce incoming damage - rather than provide DR. It doesnt make it as good as a dodge mechanic, but it does allow you to mitigate SOME damage (right now piercing will still cut through the DR).
Lastly: Wanted to split this up to avoid even bigger wall-o-text.
Many complain GWF is "too tanky" and frankly this ISNT from the GWF class himself but from lifesteal + endless consumption.
The GWF has no self heal mechanics like other classes (HR/CW just to name 2) so the GWF is EXTREMELY reliant on high Lifesteal % + Endless Consumption (which doubles your lifesteal).
So the SINGLE BIGGEST impact to nerf lifesteal's self healing (and make GWF less tanky) is to ADJUST/NERF Endless Consumption.
At this point. I would even take an ICD (although I am not a fan of this). I would be 100% in favor of making it pure 10%-15% more lifesteal severity. I would be 100% behind making it instead maybe just 5% more lifesteal. I would be 100% behind giving it like a 20 second ICD or something.
Fact of the matter is - there are MANY ways to rework this, but this single boon is FAR FAR too powerful.
nerf this, and it will nerf GWF "tankiness" that people complain about.
So now what have we done overall? Destroyer stacks - easier to get and maintain Sprint - reduces Inc Damage (gives it more of a "dodge function") Lifesteal - nerfed endless which nerfs GWFs "tankiness" a tad (their ability to self heal).
Comments
The current state of pvp relies on piercing and high burst from GWF's and GF's because DC's (and to some extent OP's) make the team invincible. Empowered astral shield and gift of faith are the main culprits, both should be evaluated especially with the changes to CC.
Character: Vendetta
As the founder of a smaller guild oriented toward newer players, the private queue will be great for introducing new people to PVP. With the rewards entirely removed, however, new players aren't going to want to spend tons of time in that play mode. There will be no feeling of progress.
Have you given any thought to keeping the reward mechanism hooked up after all, perhaps with daily or weekly limitations?
I understand your concern about easy exploitation, but that's already a problem with the current system. I'm not sure the potential for more exploitation outweighs the benefit to legitimate players that want to play with guildies in a "safe" (if that word's ever appropriate to PVP) manner.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
So I too am leery of changes to CW and HR and the DC being hard to kill due to Emp AS... But we will see. This change to Crit Resistance -> now reduce merely crit severity its a REALLY good buff to crit damage. Meaning more classes SHOULD be running crit for higher burst damage. This also means that crits on an Emp DC are likely to not see 0,0,0,0 (maybe).
Also, the fact that CC resist is removed means that INITIAL CC will be stronger. So all this COULD mean that a GF saves his Bullcharge to punt DC out of AS for the right time, which then opens the DC up to be nuked by much more lethal crit damage than we have now.
This is all speculation. Again I am leery, but we will find out only through testing.
Also the CC change NERFED GFs damage. So people need to chill. GFs rely on combo chains to kill people. The combo was several moves long involving BC->GW(more than once)-> daily. Which now if a GF does BC->2x GW this would put them at what? immunity to CC making daily not CC... Point being there are too many changes to theory craft how this will affect everything.
I, for one, am excited to test the PTR after this. I am sure we will want to make adjustments to classes and #s etc. But we wont know till we test!!!
I started a new thread about this topic, since it's not specifically a PvP thing. If people want, we might be able to make some quick progress on this problem, although as becky points out the ideal long-term solution is a systemic one:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1232826/deflect-procs-that-go-off-without-deflects-and-mysteriously-entering-combat
Sophi's reference graphic also doesn't take into account that the Hero's Feast buff is applied by standing in it, not eating it, but overwrites other event foods, a complaint at public events when someone throws one down on top of players who have previously chosen their own buffs. Someone checked this for me recently, and it still did, unless there's a trick of doing it in a specific order to get both buffs at once.
On the subject of reusable "consumables", making it possible to only have one in effect at time is -1 inventory to anyone with both Coin and Pocket Pet (or throw out whichever you now consider less useful). There's also the Miniature Giant Space Hamster (which people want to use because it's cute, not so much because the regen buff is powerful) and the Endurent Permafrost Shard wotsit (currently causing loadout issues?). Be careful with these.
Only being able to have one invoke buff at a time, as long as you can chug them until you get the buff you want, oh well, it was good while it lasted.
I know the potion situation is collectively too much. I know that reducing the number of things that can be used concurrently will also reel in PvE facerolling to some degree.
There are also specific niche potions applying to fighting dragons, playing in Everfrost content, wearing gear with Black Ice charging, maybe others I am forgetting. Will these be excluded?
There will be economic fallout. Selling potions to PvPers (and other aggressively buff-stacking players) was accessible income for a lot of players who are less concerned with using every tool in the drawer all the time. That's more observation than complaint, but the nice thing about selling consumables was that they need to be replaced constantly. You don't get that from any other type of item. This would be a much simpler boon but still strong. It would make it more useful for lower-geared players, much like the lifesteal chance boon choice in ToD. An alternative would be to change it to lifesteal severity, which is a fairly common option in later campaigns, making it boost the strength of whatever lifesteal you have, but taking out both the proc factor and the chance of massive random heals.
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BUT i dont remember pvpers rejecting this place when released i saw pvpers to play with their companions " to get the gear" .
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
There are a TON of ways this could go. Could completely remake it altogether. A SIMPLE solution would be either pure lifesteal % or Lifesteal Severity though and call it good.
This is the big one. I dont know what limitations apply or how it works, but the group stat boon could get some love. Having it persist through death would be one nice improvement. Right now, you can have your entire team select it, but if you die, you lose all the benefits (except for just the solo benefit I believe). Its a very awkward boon atm.
I am a HUGE fan of keeping things simple though and would just advocate for them to nerf the overall stat # at 5 people using this, but then remove the wonky requirements to have people using the boon etc. I know the goal is to make this a "team" boon so IMO the best thing would be to just take the 2400 of each stat and divide that by 5 and then re-multiply that by the # of people in your party. This way, it only gives you the max benefit IN a party.
So, If solo, you get 1/5th the stats (480 each). If you are in a group of 3 you would have 1440 each stat. If you are in a group of 5 you would get the full 2400 for each stat.
Just an idea.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
Group stat boon should not rely on all others opting to use it. None of the other SHold boons do.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
Thank you for your effort! Prayers answered finally!
I particular agree that GWF doesn't need a buff; most GWF players were just exaggerating the issues. Their only weakness now is CB spamming TRs, who can't even hurt them at all. The class that really is struggling is SW, who really has no place in PvP because nothing they do can't be done better by other classes.
CC needs to be looked at immediately tho, especially CC spamming builds like Trapper HR, Oppressor CW, and Courage Breaker spamming TR.Missed the part about immunity, we'll see how well it works!Mod 12.5 PvP Power/Crit/Arp Optimization
Youtube channel (PvE/PvP)
The problem is simple. Temptation Warlocks aura of despair proc deflect and deflect related powers/items/mechanics insanely, and also triggers boons in high rates..
The situation in live server is kinda simple.. AFK player have 90% chance to beat templock in pvp...
Either with templock you kill target with 1 or 2 hits. Or u die due procing deflect which lead toward stun due Shadowclad armor enchantment, > then comes deflect dmg boons>
Fey Thistle
When you Deflect an attack you deal up to 3000 damage to your attacker. (Proc on every deflected attack. Debuff on attacker and his Damage Resistance affect damage)
Frozen Reflection
And usually along deflect related stuffs comes dmg boons which got triggered due incoming hits.
Avalanche
Also usually ended up with triggering
Elven Ferocity
The problem where reported in bug forum.. But seems thread/post got ignored...
Allso would not be surprised that other boons would be also triggered.. Didn't had chance to test properly.. Because templock could not last long. Died within seconds.....
So question. Is there plan to change debuffing auras interactions toward boons, and deflect mechanic?? Or we keep as it is....
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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I don't disagree in buffing Shocking execution, damage is getting reduced around 3 times so i don't see anymore 1 shots, but don't forget hateful knives.
A solution to TR could be:
Increase TR's close range at will's range a bit more so that the target doesn't need to be really slowed for they to be applied.
Maintain Courage breaker damage reduction as it, increase the slow time and add a stun for the same duration as the slow but make both of these influenced by control resistance.
Trapper HR's can permanently stun a player but deal very little damage, the problem is crushing roots so it's crushing roots that need to be adressed.
Archery: Hum....can't keep bases can't kill....too many problems. 1 thing i notice a lot about GWF's is the inferiority against numbers, for example a GF shielded, there can be 3, 4 people hitting and the player will hold well until a possible escape kill.
When it comes to a gwf, the gwf may be able to escape by breaking free (with unstoppable) and in that case there wouldn't be many problems, problems come from prones or courage breaker. Sure there are powers that help like endless avalanche or mighty leap, but those powers are power that are not acceptable in the current meta rotation and they will take the place of another needed power.
When it comes to unstoppable, if a temporary solution turning DR into less damage damage take i can't see why not. Sentinels won't be viable in PVE but a troll tank for PVP taking 80% less damage and dealing none seems interesting
About GWF sprint, this one definitively needs to be looked at. The worst case i can tell where this is FBI, using a virtuous build high protection focused, wards against giants etc i cannot maintain GWF's alive, it's a bit due to EF damage, not saying it isn't, but i'm talking of GWF that where for sure at 80% DR and being 1 shoted, i know this is not relative to pvp but a solution fitting both pvp and pve would be the ideal. If i understand right:
Full DPS vs Full DPS -> Fast fight, wins the best;
Full DPS vs Tanky -> Longer fight, wins the best;
Tanky vs Tanky -> Very long fight. wins the best;
Well this may be what happens in "beggining game" but surely is not what happens in end game, lowering GF's damage wouldn't be "leaving them with nothing" if the other player's HP wasn't all the way back up by the time of another rotation.
So step 1 increasing the healing depression as battle goes on and "linearizing" everything including healing sources that are not affected by healing depression yet.
Step 1 won't fix one rotations, one rotations come mainly from prone chains, attack the prone chains and one rotation's get solved. If the 25%/50%/75% immunity includes this, nvm this comment
Step 3 there would be even more cases of immortal fights on situation's like GF vs GF where only 1 rotation's now can solve the match otherwise is back to turtle another minute, solution attack stamina regeneration
Another thing that seriously needs attention are powers like Astral shield (i know i am repeating what many people already said, but this really needs to be done) that can mitigate much more damage than equivalent powers in their category, like warding flare for example. Great, just 1 thing i don't agree is reusables, if i have tymora's lucky coin buff i won't be able to use a potion or use a champion's battle horn? I don't think there is a need to adjust this.
That said, if I could take a little more of your time with my thoughts about these changes - This is perfect! As a general buff to crit damage overall, builds will evolve on their own to accommodate or take advantage of it. Healing and DC (specifically their absorption mechanic) may end up being just right, granted everyone will be doing better damage. PvE players will have a larger presence in PvP and my hope is that assimilates more DPS into fights, also taking note that PvE builds are almost always crit builds. Hands down awesome! If my stacking proposition has, in any way, influenced this or if it's all YOU, want you to know that I and a lot of others completely support this change. It sounds even better! It may be too early at this point, but I'm already curious to know if it's a looping effect that goes 75-100~ back to 0 with no cooldown intervals, or a toggle effect to last for Y seconds with an ICD. I would say so! Changes at the core level of damage and control call for entirely new builds. Classes that are either supposedly weak or supposedly strong may wind up on opposite poles entirely. And until such things are up on preview for experiments, I'd definitely hold off on ANY AND ALL class-specific changes.
Again, so many great things to come! Really excited that there are so much of these changes going on in the background. And just knowing that means the world! Thank you so much!
Mod 12.5 PvP Power/Crit/Arp Optimization
Youtube channel (PvE/PvP)
Also they have zeor dodge mechanic.
So lack of dodge, lack of CC, and a very very stupid "stacking" system ALL leads the GWF to be extremely gear dependent, as well as it removes the ability for the GWF to counterplay counterplay.
What I mean is that if someone knows how GWF works, if they see "this GWF has 2 destroyer stacks up let me merely DODGE and he will lose them" then GG. You just countered GWF.
A GWF needs to stack:
1) Daggers (+40% damage)
2) Destroyer's Purpose (+50%)
3) Destroyer + Focused Destroyer (+46%)
4) Double Mark (+20%+12%) (Note: Or Battle Fury damage % buff)
ALL of these, can be countered. Daggers - we get 3 stacks. So this one isnt BAD it just ruins GWF "variety" in that Daggers is 100% mandatory for all GWF builds. Period.
Destroyers Purpose - we can only gain these in Unstoppable. This is a bit of a "catch 22" because in order to get unstoppable we either need to TAKE a lot of damage or DEAL alot of damage. Well, if GWF isnt being "focused" he cant get this, and without this, he cant deal damage. So if you want to win a node, feel free to ignore the GWF (assuming no current stacks) and he wont do much damage for a while. Now the GOOD about this is these stacks last a long time, so once a GWF does get them he can now deal damage -> get unstoppable again to refresh them.
Double Mark - again "forces" GWFs into 1 build: Iron Vanguard so we can apply Mark via Threat Rush. Then must use Daring Shout (which is a long CD and can be dodged) and/or use Battle Fury + Threat Rush Mark)
THEN FINALLY - The crux of all this: Destroyer and Focused Destroyer. These stacks are the bane of the existence of GWF. They can only apply off an actual HIT (not DOTS - unlike almost any other stacking mechanic in the game), they only have a 25% chance to hit, and they only last 4 seconds.
So a GWF has to be running around, FACETANKING damage, and trying to set up a perfect combo of all these +damage pieces to have a CHANCE (if hits arent deflected) to kill someone.
Now, you might say "you make it sound more complicated than it is! I see GWFs all the time critting for huge numbers and being tanky etc"
Yes - GOOD GWFs have learned to manage all this stuff, but sub-par GEARED GWFs and "mediocre player GWFs" cant do this.
SECOND - It relies more on who you are playing, than the GWF himself. Again, most "average" players dont understand all these mechanics. Once you find someone that does, that knows how to PREVENT you from getting all these "pieces" then you become much much less of a threat.
Nobody wants "EZmode GWF" again like in mod 3 or the Roar GWF we saw in mod 1-2 etc. But I will say the single "crux" of this entire thing is 1 feat: Destroyer/Focused Destroyer.
The fact that these stacks are so easy to counter. They only last 4 seconds, they are hard to GAIN. is the problem. Again I will spell this out - you fight against BAD players who dont understand this mechanic and they DONT COUNTER IT and then GWF can build these easily and BAM they get crit for a ton.
You play against GOOD players who know how to counter this - and the GWF cannot "counter play" that counterplay MEANING the entire "strength of a GWF" ENTIRELY depends on WHO YOU PLAY - not your own "skill level".
This has FOREVER been an issue with balance. QA teams (who dont play to counter GWF) test it, and say "GWF is fine!" Lower skilled players who dont play to counter GWF say "I see no problem" but at the highest skill level of players - they can counter GWF.
My only ask is that we remove this troubling balance mechanic, so that what QA team tests, and what "average players" see is ALSO what high skill players can do.
Increase the duration of Destroyer/Focused Destroyer stacks. To be brutally honest, and I know I will get flame from the PVE players for this, I would be MORE than happy if Focused Destroyer did NOT increase damage, but merely gave you like: 10/20/30/40/50% chance to gain a stack off ANY hit AND increased the duration of destroyer by 1/2/3/4/5 seconds. (I am not committed to these numbers, this is merely to give an example).
Overall this isnt a big damage loss (3.5% * 3 stacks) but this makes destroyer much more reliable across the board. And to the PVE players - this frankly wont be a huge loss of damage, you will still be wanted in parties.
But what this does is helps the QA team BALANCE THE CLASS moving forward. What they experience in "low tier" and "mid tier" PVP will be more similar to what "top tier" is.... this addresses just ONE issue of the GWF - the stacking mechanics.
It doesnt address "no dodge mechanic" and this is where frankly, I think Sprint should reduce incoming damage - rather than provide DR. It doesnt make it as good as a dodge mechanic, but it does allow you to mitigate SOME damage (right now piercing will still cut through the DR).
Many complain GWF is "too tanky" and frankly this ISNT from the GWF class himself but from lifesteal + endless consumption.
The GWF has no self heal mechanics like other classes (HR/CW just to name 2) so the GWF is EXTREMELY reliant on high Lifesteal % + Endless Consumption (which doubles your lifesteal).
So the SINGLE BIGGEST impact to nerf lifesteal's self healing (and make GWF less tanky) is to ADJUST/NERF Endless Consumption.
At this point. I would even take an ICD (although I am not a fan of this).
I would be 100% in favor of making it pure 10%-15% more lifesteal severity. I would be 100% behind making it instead maybe just 5% more lifesteal. I would be 100% behind giving it like a 20 second ICD or something.
Fact of the matter is - there are MANY ways to rework this, but this single boon is FAR FAR too powerful.
nerf this, and it will nerf GWF "tankiness" that people complain about.
So now what have we done overall?
Destroyer stacks - easier to get and maintain
Sprint - reduces Inc Damage (gives it more of a "dodge function")
Lifesteal - nerfed endless which nerfs GWFs "tankiness" a tad (their ability to self heal).