Official Feedback Thread: M12 Private PvP Queues (& a bit about where PvP is headed)
rgutscheradev
Member, Cryptic Developer Cryptic Developer › Posts: 156 Cryptic Developer
Releasing with Chult, we have the much-requested “Private PvP” queue: a queue where you can invite a full team of 10 (or 20 for Gauntlgrym), divided as you choose, to a PvP match. We hope this will appeal to all ranks of PvP players, from beginners who want to do some experimentation before diving into regular PvP matches, to experts who want to arrange battles with other experts.
We know that PvP right now is in a state where it needs lots of love. Private PvP queues represent an initial down payment on those needs, and also a way to make it easier for everyone to generate feedback.
We hope that Private PvP queues can serve as a “laboratory” for players who care about Neverwinter PvP to try various experiments, and let us know what works, what doesn’t, and what problems they find. Right now, it’s pretty hard to experiment. But with Private PvP queues, it should be a lot easier.
Please feel free to try all sorts of things. Maybe...
* Test specific player powers and items in a controlled setting
* Everyone take off all their Tenacity gear and just wear regular PvE gear -- is the play experience better? Worse? In what ways?
* Try out a 3v3 match (you can enter a Private PvP queue with less than a full group if you want)
* Experiment with new and unusual team comps
* Make up a new game mode (eg, a deathmatch where everyone has 2 lives). Of course, it will have to be enforced by player agreement, but if it becomes popular, maybe it can become an official mode some day! (Kind of like what happened with ARAM in League of Legends, if you’re familiar with that history.)
* Anything you can think of! For science!
Known Issue
Currently, the normal PvP rewards are still attached. That’s a bug. There will NOT be rewards attached to private PvP queues (way too abusable, as you can imagine) when the system goes live.
A few comments about PvP in general... you all have had lots of good ideas for PvP improvements. The big message we’ve received is that PvP is in a state where it needs fixes first before new PvP content (like a new game mode or map). Here are the things we are looking at first (I think pretty much all of these are forum suggestions!):
* Tenacity Rework: we have a small down payment on this with Chult. See https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1231983/official-feedback-thread-m12-armor-pen-changes-and-pvp for details, including where we’re currently headed with Tenacity.
* Permanent Solo Queue
* Diminishing CC Returns: this is something we want to do some experiments with, and add to PvP if those experiments go well.
* Fix the Leaderboard bug
* Hopefully do a PvP rewards pass as well (at very least, give some stats to compensate for any Tenacity that disappears)
Keep in mind none of this certain to happen -- game development, things can change, all the usual warnings! But these are the things we want to do first for PvP. Once they are done (or, in some cases, maybe they go horribly wrong and we decide against them, or we decide to deal with the problem in some other better way instead), then we can look at where we are and see if we should be focusing on further fixes, or if it’s time to look at things like new game modes.
We know that PvP right now is in a state where it needs lots of love. Private PvP queues represent an initial down payment on those needs, and also a way to make it easier for everyone to generate feedback.
We hope that Private PvP queues can serve as a “laboratory” for players who care about Neverwinter PvP to try various experiments, and let us know what works, what doesn’t, and what problems they find. Right now, it’s pretty hard to experiment. But with Private PvP queues, it should be a lot easier.
Please feel free to try all sorts of things. Maybe...
* Test specific player powers and items in a controlled setting
* Everyone take off all their Tenacity gear and just wear regular PvE gear -- is the play experience better? Worse? In what ways?
* Try out a 3v3 match (you can enter a Private PvP queue with less than a full group if you want)
* Experiment with new and unusual team comps
* Make up a new game mode (eg, a deathmatch where everyone has 2 lives). Of course, it will have to be enforced by player agreement, but if it becomes popular, maybe it can become an official mode some day! (Kind of like what happened with ARAM in League of Legends, if you’re familiar with that history.)
* Anything you can think of! For science!
Known Issue
Currently, the normal PvP rewards are still attached. That’s a bug. There will NOT be rewards attached to private PvP queues (way too abusable, as you can imagine) when the system goes live.
A few comments about PvP in general... you all have had lots of good ideas for PvP improvements. The big message we’ve received is that PvP is in a state where it needs fixes first before new PvP content (like a new game mode or map). Here are the things we are looking at first (I think pretty much all of these are forum suggestions!):
* Tenacity Rework: we have a small down payment on this with Chult. See https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1231983/official-feedback-thread-m12-armor-pen-changes-and-pvp for details, including where we’re currently headed with Tenacity.
* Permanent Solo Queue
* Diminishing CC Returns: this is something we want to do some experiments with, and add to PvP if those experiments go well.
* Fix the Leaderboard bug
* Hopefully do a PvP rewards pass as well (at very least, give some stats to compensate for any Tenacity that disappears)
Keep in mind none of this certain to happen -- game development, things can change, all the usual warnings! But these are the things we want to do first for PvP. Once they are done (or, in some cases, maybe they go horribly wrong and we decide against them, or we decide to deal with the problem in some other better way instead), then we can look at where we are and see if we should be focusing on further fixes, or if it’s time to look at things like new game modes.
8
Comments
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Just an FYI, the system is already being abused in this way with the public queues on live. It takes some work but it's not hard to "sync" your queue group up with another one. Well... at least it's not hard to fight randoms, actually getting it matched can be quite hard some days.rgutscheradev said:Currently, the normal PvP rewards are still attached. That’s a bug. There will NOT be rewards attached to private PvP queues (way too abusable, as you can imagine) when the system goes live.
Very nice though. Private Queues were really needed.
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John0 -
Yes, I'm hoping the private queues will reduce the incentive to synch queues somewhat, although of course it can't prevent it. But people who were synching just because they honestly wanted to fight it out in a specific reasonable match will be able to use the private queues to do that.darthtzarr said:
Just an FYI, the system is already being abused in this way with the public queues on live. It takes some work but it's not hard to "sync" your queue group up with another one. Well... at least it's not hard to fight randoms, actually getting it matched can be quite hard some days.rgutscheradev said:Currently, the normal PvP rewards are still attached. That’s a bug. There will NOT be rewards attached to private PvP queues (way too abusable, as you can imagine) when the system goes live.
Very nice though. Private Queues were really needed.3 -
WILL The players able to use companions in private queue? Maybe two teams want to fight with their companions.1
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can we do this with stronghold siege?1
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This is really great!
Why not accompany the private PvP queue with the permanent solo queue in mod 12? I don't see any reason not to do so.Nezdin (DC)
Aelan Icebleed (CW)1 -
Nah... I don't think the mechanics will or should be changed in any way. You have IWD for that anyways.mamalion1234 said:WILL The players able to use companions in private queue? Maybe two teams want to fight with their companions.
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Thank you for this! I can take it off of my list of things I bug @nitocris83 about
I fully understand your motivation for removing rewards, especially when this is first released. However, consider that many people getting their feet wet in PVP will not be abusing the system. It would be great if they could earn some form of reward in a later release. Perhaps you limit rewards through private queues to a certain amount per day or per week so that honest players can get honest rewards, while limiting the amount of reward obtainable by abusing the system.
Perhaps you could even add a flag where if you investigate an abuse report and find an account was abusing the feature, rewards are disabled for a few months (by the way, that's generally a much better system than perma-banning players for abusing system features... don't kick the player, remove their access to that feature temporarily or permanently).Caritas Guild Founder (Greycloak Alliance)
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min3 -
I love the 1vs1-5vs5 private Q for PvP. Very much needed.
Now we need to focus on the gear gap so we actually have someone to Q against.
Im worried tho about rewards, if u can Q 1vs1 you can Q against an alt and farm the loot. This has to be prevented somehow.▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
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This is a nice addition , thnx a lot for this and yes you are absolutely right about not rewarding these private queues cause it will lead to something else.0
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Everything dies too quickly and the classes with most burst reign.rgutscheradev said:
* Everyone take off all their Tenacity gear and just wear regular PvE gear -- is the play experience better? Worse? In what ways?
Also, can we expect any class balancing? Diminishing returns on CC could help with balance of some classes, but resistance ignore on HR still needs a look in my opinion.
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Does this include all CC powers like stun, prone, root, daze, slows, immobilise?rgutscheradev said:
* Diminishing CC Returns: this is something we want to do some experiments with, and add to PvP if those experiments go well.
Are all the above types of CC affected by control bonuses/resist?Vordon CW ‡ Vordayn DC ‡ Axel Wolfric GWF ‡ Logain SW ‡ Gawyn GF ‡ Galad OP ‡ Aspen Darkfire HR ‡ Min TR1 -
Thank you very Much for this. Is there going to be an overhaul of the pvp campaign at all, Longtime players have this of course, but I see new players struggling to complete it and the rewards from it are long Obsolete(pvp rings,ets..)1
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In theory, it should be possible for more players to begin working through the PvP campaign once the private queue option goes live. If the Pre-mades that currently dominate move mostly to play there, then the "normal" queue should open up & allow for better matches for us PUGlets.deathklaat666 said:Thank you very Much for this. Is there going to be an overhaul of the pvp campaign at all, Longtime players have this of course, but I see new players struggling to complete it and the rewards from it are long Obsolete(pvp rings,ets..)
@rgutscheradev You say no rewards in private, I am assuming that includes boon progression as well, yes?
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@rgutscheradev
The post brought a tear to my eye +1 million
Atomic Batteries to Power! Turbines to Speed!
Are we able to select which 5 v 5 pvp map to chose in the Q
maybe we can get a private Q/ regular normal q for strongholds with companions turned off lol .. how it should have been lag free
can you please take a look at toning down adtional sources of potions and powers stacks in pvp that are not included in item level
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1230908/fully-potted-pvp
potions / buffs adds up to an extra 38 rank 12 enchantments worth of power
this will bypass all your changes making them moot what say you to this sirPost edited by kalina311 on1 -
I don't really see why it would be problematic to have the option for 1000+ mutators. It's a private queue with no rewards there's no reason to box PvP into the limits that have been in place for so long. They could add run speed sliders, toggles to disable/enable pots, enchants, insignia bonuses,mount powers etc., options to change dom rules (e.g. the number of capture points, the score limit, respawn limits), mutators to set resistances at a specific number, modifiers for weapon damage/stats etc. etc.frozenfirevr said:
Nah... I don't think the mechanics will or should be changed in any way. You have IWD for that anyways.mamalion1234 said:WILL The players able to use companions in private queue? Maybe two teams want to fight with their companions.
Cryptic is so slow at actually balancing things themselves I'd think you'd want the ability to fix things yourself rather than waiting for them.
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I'll second the call for reduced rewards or a weekly cap instead of no rewards at all. The biggest appeal of private PVP to me would be being able to introduce new people to it without risking running into a BIS premade who won't let you leave the campfire. Which, admittedly, is rare in public queues - most BIS premades will let you score and chat while the timer runs down and fight 1v1s and stuff if you give up - but it happens, and it's really discouraging for new players in their first pieces of Warborn or Company trying to learn the new mode.
Being able to win some Glory and guild marks, even if reduced and even with reduced or removed Seals or Banners, would be a good thing and could be made unprofitable to farm.5 -
Their proposed solution is to eventually eliminate PvP gear so that shouldn't really be necessary. The amount of glory they could reward without encouraging exploits is so small it wouldn't be worth it. They'd be better of adjusting rewards in the normal queues so that lower ilvl players are still rewarded.defiantone99 said:There need to be rewards in Private queue, so that Prestige gear can be earned. The issues that make it hard to win a match to get seals and Glory are not being addressed, so lower Il players need a way to get the BIS gear. Lower the salvage value of the PVP gear and add seals and glory to the queue, or let there be a chance for Prestige armor to drop to the players with the highest scores.
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Possibly a dumb suggestion: Maybe a *permanent* cap on rewards from private PVP? Or permanently diminishing returns?
Get your first Seals, your first Banners, your first Grym Coins, your first Glory, etc, in Private? No problem..... but you can only *ever* get, say, 300 Seals, 20K Glory, 60 Grym Coins, 5 Banners, whatever from Private, and then the rewards get smaller every time until you hit the limit.
Still lets you get rewards for Private. Still encourages you to run Private with new players to show them the ropes or when you want to challenge specific people/teams. You can make progress towards achievements and PVP boons. You can get your first piece or maybe two of Prestige or Lionsmane armor, or start your way to a Banner or Skull - but makes it so Private is simply *not* farmable.
How about it, folks? Tell me why this is a bad idea.1 -
Why should rewards drop only for the players that get the highest scores?defiantone99 said:There need to be rewards in Private queue, so that Prestige gear can be earned. The issues that make it hard to win a match to get seals and Glory are not being addressed, so lower Il players need a way to get the BIS gear. Lower the salvage value of the PVP gear and add seals and glory to the queue, or let there be a chance for Prestige armor to drop to the players with the highest scores.
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It is incomprehensible why they have not included a permanent solo queue.
90% of players want one.
This has been known for more than a year.
Just. Give. Us. The. Permanent. Solo. Queue. Now.
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Really?mamalion1234 said:WILL The players able to use companions in private queue? Maybe two teams want to fight with their companions.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.3 -
I'm cool with removing any AD rewards from private queues but given that most players in pve guilds absolutely hate going up against hardcore pvp players but need to earn shards for their guild progression, I think that at the very least, the daily stronghold pvp quests should be doable via private queue.
This would be a nice way for guild members to get into pvp and have some motivation to do so. Playing against people you know is much more fun for pvp 'dippers' and would also help solve the outstanding shards problem that gets brought up regularly here.Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
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Member of Casual Dailies - XBox7 -
Maybe they think that normal queue will become something like a solo queue if all premades now have private queue. I still do not see the point of going one (easy) step further by transforming normal queue into solo queue to assure no pointless and calculated stomping takes place.feanor70118 said:It is incomprehensible why they have not included a permanent solo queue.
90% of players want one.
This has been known for more than a year.
Just. Give. Us. The. Permanent. Solo. Queue. Now.Nezdin (DC)
Aelan Icebleed (CW)0 -
If you leave the reward system in normal domination and disable rewards in the private queue this is what will happen: premades will runrgutscheradev said:
Known Issue
Currently, the normal PvP rewards are still attached. That’s a bug. There will NOT be rewards attached to private PvP queues (way too abusable, as you can imagine) when the system goes live.
2 x normal domination to get rewards before going back to private queue to have their fun.
Solution? Transform "normal" queue into permanent solo queue to prevent systematic premades from farming AD. If anyone wants AD, he has to queue solo.
Nezdin (DC)
Aelan Icebleed (CW)0 -
also wondering If pvp records will get published for the private Q and mess/ mix up leader board and standings as well
there should be no records of kills or deaths or anything for private Q as it will discourage new and old people alike from trying / participating / being shamed / bragging0 -
we ran a few private q dominations on ptr, and they did not show up on the leaderboard.
Iyon the Dark0
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