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Valorous vs Oath vs Shielding Strike

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  • veywiil#8685 veywiil Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    Group content is 80% of this game [based on time spent after 2+ years] as a reminder, most of us balance off of group content, because that's where we play the most and see the most improvement. Fire Archon usually is better for personal solo DPS, unless your doing a boss solo, then the amount of time it takes is the big factor.

    @armadeonx I still do not support SS overall. Oath Strike is too important, mainly due to the taunt mechanic. The other thing is, thanks to animation cancelling, you need to way in how fast you can rotate an at-will inbetween encounters, I do that fairly frequently.

    For Devotion Paladin obviously Oath Strike is the only offensive option for us. For Protection I CAN see it going either way, but I personally feel you are losing to much from the hard taunt that you can spam as often as you want too.

    I will repeat myself for the second time this weekend, these choices matter only if you care about the n'th degree of optimization. If you don't care if you are clearing a dungeon in 5 minutes and 25 seconds verses 5 minutes and 30 second, then just pick the one that you 'like' more.
    I'm a theorycrafter, that means I can answer fairly deep questions with scientific theory, mathematical proof, and some guessing. Ask me stuff!
  • mcgwarfacemcgwarface Member Posts: 160 Arc User
    veywiil#8685, what are your thoughts of aura of radiance/trans lightning enchant for aggro vs using aura of vengence on bosses? (aura of courage is always on)

    Do you feel its more important to keep aggro or improve the teams dps w your aura?
  • trzebiat#2067 trzebiat Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    @mcgwarface Aura of Courage and Wisdom always on. If you lack aggro there are other things to consider.
  • veywiil#8685 veywiil Member Posts: 208 Arc User

    veywiil#8685, what are your thoughts of aura of radiance/trans lightning enchant for aggro vs using aura of vengence on bosses? (aura of courage is always on)



    Do you feel its more important to keep aggro or improve the teams dps w your aura?

    @mcgwarface Sorry you didn't @ me so it never showed up on my notifications so this is a SUPER late response.
    @trzebiat#2067 already covered this in summary. Curious to hear your thoughts on the bottom portion however.

    AoC/AoW should always be slotted. There is one exception and that is for when you get lazy in 10 man+ dungeons, Aura of Life. This is only relevant to Healadins, and only if you understand that the fragile DPS need to be healed back to full almost instantly after being rezzed...
    Aura of Radiance does very little for your aggro. If anything Vow of Enmity will do you much better in terms of aggro, in addition to providing a 50% DR debuff to a single enemy.
    Aura of Vengeance is like 4th or 5th on the lineup for auras, it has good damage, but only for people getting hit. Here is my ideal lineups.

    AoC = Aura of Courage
    AoW = Aura of Wisdom
    AoV = Aura of Vengeance
    AoT = Aura of Truth
    AoP = Aura of Protection

    1 Paladin: AoC/AoW
    2 Paladins (Prot | Prot): AoC/AoW | AoV/(AoT/AoP depending on group stats)
    2 Paladins (Prot | Dev): AoC/AoW | AoV/AoL
    2 Paladins (Dev| Dev): AoC/AoL | AoW|AoV

    What you began to notice is AoC/AoW are always being slotted, and when more aura space is available you almost always slot AoV, when Dev OP's are involved you take AoL as well.
    I'm a theorycrafter, that means I can answer fairly deep questions with scientific theory, mathematical proof, and some guessing. Ask me stuff!
  • mcgwarfacemcgwarface Member Posts: 160 Arc User
    Has that been tested?, Aura of Radiance seems to hold aggro for me very nicely unless its my dps. I add additional aggro w the shield perk (aura of radiance has additional aggro)...Im offline for a week so I cant check the exact wording
  • hirogardehirogarde Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited June 2017


    AoC/AoW should always be slotted. There is one exception and that is for when you get lazy in 10 man+ dungeons, Aura of Life. This is only relevant to Healadins, and only if you understand that the fragile DPS need to be healed back to full almost instantly after being rezzed...
    Aura of Radiance does very little for your aggro. If anything Vow of Enmity will do you much better in terms of aggro, in addition to providing a 50% DR debuff to a single enemy.
    Aura of Vengeance is like 4th or 5th on the lineup for auras, it has good damage, but only for people getting hit. Here is my ideal lineups.

    AoC = Aura of Courage
    AoW = Aura of Wisdom
    AoV = Aura of Vengeance
    AoT = Aura of Truth
    AoP = Aura of Protection

    1 Paladin: AoC/AoW
    2 Paladins (Prot | Prot): AoC/AoW | AoV/(AoT/AoP depending on group stats)
    2 Paladins (Prot | Dev): AoC/AoW | AoV/AoL
    2 Paladins (Dev| Dev): AoC/AoL | AoW|AoV

    What you began to notice is AoC/AoW are always being slotted, and when more aura space is available you almost always slot AoV, when Dev OP's are involved you take AoL as well.

    If you're talking PURE DPS the above may be true, but...
    Aura of Radiance is a lot better than most give it credit for. It's best used when there are more than six mobs in a pull (because it doesn't have the artifical cap). IMO, AoV is only better when you don't want (or just can't keep) the agro, simply because it relies on the super-slow swing times of the mobs.
    *EDIT* Just tested AoV vs AoR - Radiance is ~5-6x the DPS of vengeance (solo). Also of note is that AoV won't do any damage if you take zero (0) damage (like with shielding strike up).

    Also (IMO), AoW is way over-rated in the higher levels. Most cycle times are fast enough that AoW (though it helps) it does not add significant speed to most combat scenerios.

    As for AoC... it needs to be toned back. If you don't agree, think about how the damage boards would look if it was all credited to the paladin instead of the other players. Maybe if it were -5% for every additional player (capping at -75% which is still a lot of damage), and/or gave a flat recharge penalty to the paladin? It would still be godly, but other auras would start to become useful in more situations.

    Paladins are probably the most versatile of all the classes, but the fact that there's only two of nine auras that everyone runs with, to me means it needs some looking at.
    Post edited by hirogarde on
  • trzebiat#2067 trzebiat Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    hirogarde said:


    AoC/AoW should always be slotted. There is one exception and that is for when you get lazy in 10 man+ dungeons, Aura of Life. This is only relevant to Healadins, and only if you understand that the fragile DPS need to be healed back to full almost instantly after being rezzed...
    Aura of Radiance does very little for your aggro. If anything Vow of Enmity will do you much better in terms of aggro, in addition to providing a 50% DR debuff to a single enemy.
    Aura of Vengeance is like 4th or 5th on the lineup for auras, it has good damage, but only for people getting hit. Here is my ideal lineups.

    AoC = Aura of Courage
    AoW = Aura of Wisdom
    AoV = Aura of Vengeance
    AoT = Aura of Truth
    AoP = Aura of Protection

    1 Paladin: AoC/AoW
    2 Paladins (Prot | Prot): AoC/AoW | AoV/(AoT/AoP depending on group stats)
    2 Paladins (Prot | Dev): AoC/AoW | AoV/AoL
    2 Paladins (Dev| Dev): AoC/AoL | AoW|AoV

    What you began to notice is AoC/AoW are always being slotted, and when more aura space is available you almost always slot AoV, when Dev OP's are involved you take AoL as well.

    If you're talking PURE DPS the above may be true, but...
    Aura of Radiance is a lot better than most give it credit for. It's best used when there are more than six mobs in a pull (because it doesn't have the artifical cap). IMO, AoV is only better when you don't want (or just can't keep) the agro, simply because it relies on the super-slow swing times of the mobs.
    *EDIT* Just tested AoV vs AoR - Radiance is ~5-6x the DPS of vengeance (solo). Also of note is that AoV won't do any damage if you take zero (0) damage (like with shielding strike up).

    Also (IMO), AoW is way over-rated in the higher levels. Most cycle times are fast enough that AoW (though it helps) it does not add significant speed to most combat scenerios.

    As for AoC... it needs to be toned back. If you don't agree, think about how the damage boards would look if it was all credited to the paladin instead of the other players. Maybe if it were -5% for every additional player (capping at -75% which is still a lot of damage), and/or gave a flat recharge penalty to the paladin? It would still be godly, but other auras would start to become useful in more situations.

    Paladins are probably the most versatile of all the classes, but the fact that there's only two of nine auras that everyone runs with, to me means it needs some looking at.
    Aura of Vengeance is better for fights where people are taking constant damage, e.g. Demo, green DF, than other.

    How getting recharge speed worth 5k Recovery and AP gain is overrated?

    And what's wrong with that there's only two auras worth running on OP? It's the same for other classes, e.g.:
    - SS CW: Chilling Presence and Spell Storm
    - GWF: Destroyer and Weapon Μaster/Wrathful Determination (depending only if at 100% crit) and there are only 4 encounters everyone uses: Hidden Daggers, IBS and Daring Shout/Battle Fury (depending who marks enemies)
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