You do know there is a boon you can use so first strike never works on you right?
You do know that by asking you do know, you're implying that if people don't know they should? For the sake of entertainment please fill us in, if there is a boon that negates first strike I have not found it yet. Thanks.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
You do know that by asking you do know, you're implying that if people don't know they should? For the sake of entertainment please fill us in, if there is a boon that negates first strike I have not found it yet. Thanks.
Nice This thread gets funny
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
We used to have armor sets that would negate first strike also... but those got removed.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
We used to have armor sets that would negate first strike also... but those got removed.
I'll assume by your lack of ability to produce the actual boon that negates first strike that there is no such thing. I'm sure if that assumption is wrong you'll correct me. Until such time as this information is presented I return to my original statement that First strike is overperforming in PVP in MI exe builds.
In addition, there are no boons that negate SOD procs after SB + SE so this still needs to be adjusted as well. If in the future you have some relevant information to produce I'll look forward to it @demonmonger, untill then... Thanks for your reply
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
so now we can close the thread the question has been answered lol I imagine the briartwine reflecting armor enchant might do the same
Fey thistle, briartwine, planar vitality, frozen reflection... All boons and abilities that deal damage when they deflect or are hit. The problem ofc being.... 1) You can't deflect piercing damage, 2)You have to be hit to deflect and if the TR hits you... it takes off his own first strike anyway.
The exception being if the TR has feats that proc your deflect first.... No decent one shot build would do that. So... yeah... thanks for the info guys LOL. My Pally has all these feats... the one who was one shotted for 266K with FS XD
Comical stuff lol
Post edited by ltgamesttv#0999 on
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
0
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited May 2017
hmmm ?If I charge storm pillar at will (+5 % damage for 20 seconds as well..) it becomes a summoned entity . It will hit any invisible target out of or in stealth getting rid of first strike as well : d a tactic i use on my Cw
there is no hiding from the storm pillar at will companion lol : D
or you place it in the path / route you know the Tr is escaping to.. essentially revealing him and cutting him off from escape/healing if he is low
hmmm ?If I charge storm pillar at will (+5 % damage for 20 seconds as well..) it becomes a summoned entity . It will hit any invisible target out of or in stealth getting rid of first strike as well : d a tactic i use on my Cw
there is no hiding from the storm pillar at will companion lol : D
or you place it in the path / route you know the Tr is escaping to.. essentially revealing him and cutting him off from escape/healing if he is low
I do this as CW too, but then... CW isn't the class that has to worry about SE as is addressed throughout the discussion. Thanks for the input though, maybe someone else will glean something from this
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
The best case scenario is in the rework they buff low DPS base damage and damage buffs so piercing damage isn't needed. Piercing damage is a shortcut like I said before, it has minimal effect in PVE and huge effect in PVP.
I wouldn't want to get rid of piercing damage until the other issues with these classes (TR,HR combat) are addressed though.
My primary issue is that one shots should not exist. They ruin gameplay for specific classes.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
I main a TR and I play some PvP from time to time, I luckily can roll to avoid the SE and sometimes avoid it with with ITC. I personally don't use shocking except to 'test it' on an opposing SE build. It is annoying and I agree that the game would be better without one shot abilities. But...where does that end? I can set my TR up to do pretty massive one shot hits with things other than SE as well, and other classes have some powerful attacks as well, those knive things that drop from the sky and IBS come to mind...where do we draw the line on this?
> @sundance777 said: > I main a TR and I play some PvP from time to time, I luckily can roll to avoid the SE and sometimes avoid it with with ITC. I personally don't use shocking except to 'test it' on an opposing SE build. It is annoying and I agree that the game would be better without one shot abilities. But...where does that end? I can set my TR up to do pretty massive one shot hits with things other than SE as well, and other classes have some powerful attacks as well, those knive things that drop from the sky and IBS come to mind...where do we draw the line on this?
Umm, there is no comparison to any other ability in the game. Shocking execution with first strike or SoD procs can do 280k unmittigatable damage. No other ability in game from any class is comparable. For classes without immunity frames/dodge mechanics it's insta death.
There is no line drawing because there is no comparison and trying to draw comparisons shows there is a distinct disconnect in understanding. 280K piercing damage is unacceptable because 2-3 classes are completely helpless against it.
Thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
I sort of think that is by design...from the wiki: Armed with twin-bladed weapons and the ability to vanish under the cloak of darkness, the Trickster Rogue is a force of sudden and most certain death. Facing a Rogue can be devastating. Their unique combination of abilities makes them able to daze, stun and slow the enemy, while shredding armor -- or outright ignoring it -- often with deadly results. - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Trickster_Rogue
TR - Sun: 16000 IL OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
The problem is piercing damage, PVP has a big problem that is gear gap, most beginners will be easily 1 shoted or eaten up by piercing blades even using pvp gear, defensive CF's/encounters that supposedly should protect them.
Piercing is just toxic. No question. Lots of people have put forth suggestions that it should at least respect Tenacity, I think that is both doable and agreeable. I get that some people say that CW/GWF/GF can pull off one shots/rotates of their own but, that's from the perspective of a TR caught out of stealth... Face the fact that TR is just simply WEAK and without shocking, it's paper thin defense-wise (if you're either bad enough or the enemy is good enough to catch you). Just being weak like this doesn't mean another class' heavy hitter can be put on the same boat as SE. It may be if they are doing it to everyone else on a regular basis, which is not always the case. I can tell you it IS ALWAYS the case for every competitive TR in this meta.
Let me explain, no is too long, let me sum up. One shots should not exist in any game ever imho.
If the devs listen or not, if these forum posts are forwarded or not, if because the game is f2p or not I will still come here and write posts that I think are pertinent to making the game better.
Thanks for your reply.
So - remove a Natural 20 on a 1d20?
Any "one shot" should leave you with 1-10 hp?
I think we're a bit too used to martial arts fights lasting a long time so we expect the same in PvP. Bruce Lee could have taken a lot less time in his fights, but it didn't make for "good entertainment".
I get one-shotted. It happens. It sucks, sure, but it happens. The analysis of it lets me see what I can improve on my build, or who should inspire me to emulate Sir Robin.
" I tried to figure out the enigma that was you, and then I realized mastering Wild Magic was easier." - Old Wizard in Waterdeep
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
This is a single problem from a single class from two issues specific to a build. SoD procs off SB + SE which can do 280k piercing damage. First strike + SE can cause 280K piercing damage. This insta kills GWF, Pallies, and Potentially SW. This is an unacceptable, unavoidable, dodgeless, skilless ability. It needs to be addressed for its overperformance.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
1
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited May 2017
And what about all the other times that one shot tr is trying to kill you and can't even scratch you with basic attack's and encounters? The shocking execution is his reward for staying alive so long vs a tank or foes that can one rotate him to death.
Maybe you just want to be unkillable for all classes? Have that endless stalemate of you out healing all of our encounters and at wills while we dodge around your attacks that take off 1/3 or more of our hp with a single hit.
Sure pal... (no pun intended)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
I play TR as well, and I can kill because I actually fight to build up my SE if I'm a sabo. The one shot builds I'm describing are executioner one trick ponies. I am not asking for a change to SE at all. I'm asking for a change to first strike and to SoD proccing from SB so that SE counts as part of it's damage ending with 280K unavoidable one shots. This type of gameplay where MI EXE TRs run around with DC sigil, flail snail, and high recovery then just stack power and come in and one shot players is silly. It should not exist, it should not moot out 3 classes with no hope of fighting or surviving against such an attack. Defending a one shot, one trick pony just shows that some players prefer not to be challenged but to get free kills and don't want to have to risk actually engaging in a fight to get them.
Thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited May 2017
And to build up se we all must fight... end of story. It is wise in pvp to save se for the unkillables
I am not defending a one shot player... because many useless attacks were made to build up that daily to try to take you down.
You can sit there afk and tank out plus heal out all the damage we do except for se.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
You are not reading my posts, SE has nothing to do with it, hit me for 180K that's fine, a one shot TR who can hit for 280K should not exist, end of story. Any argument that a TR should be able to come in, in stealth, with zero risk, hit 2 buttons and wipe 3 classes for free is a silly argument that means to make one class over-perform when built in this fashion.
If you think a TR should be able to one shot for 280K or even 260K we will disagree at the core because you don't have to fight to make this happen. You pop DC sigil, stealth up, first strike or SoD for 280K and move on to the next target without putting yourself at risk at all. If you think this should be a viable build then you are defending the cheesiest of cheese in game. So, we will simply disagree. There are plenty of ways to take down players without one shotting them using all the abilities a TR has at his disposal (SB, SE, CB).
So I say again, one shots should not happen in game. First strike and SoD should be optimized so that players have a chance to fight back against SE even if they play a toon that has no dodge/immunity frames.
Thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
0
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited May 2017
And yet again aspects of tr are being systematically truncated by players that want to be immortal.
People are saying nerf courage breaker and out control builds, plus saying nerf see and our damage builds.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Comments
This thread gets funny
In addition, there are no boons that negate SOD procs after SB + SE so this still needs to be adjusted as well. If in the future you have some relevant information to produce I'll look forward to it @demonmonger, untill then... Thanks for your reply
I imagine the briartwine reflecting armor enchant might do the same
The exception being if the TR has feats that proc your deflect first.... No decent one shot build would do that. So... yeah... thanks for the info guys LOL. My Pally has all these feats... the one who was one shotted for 266K with FS XD
Comical stuff lol
there is no hiding from the storm pillar at will companion lol : D
or you place it in the path / route you know the Tr is escaping to.. essentially revealing him and cutting him off from escape/healing if he is low
I wouldn't want to get rid of piercing damage until the other issues with these classes (TR,HR combat) are addressed though.
My primary issue is that one shots should not exist. They ruin gameplay for specific classes.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
> I main a TR and I play some PvP from time to time, I luckily can roll to avoid the SE and sometimes avoid it with with ITC. I personally don't use shocking except to 'test it' on an opposing SE build. It is annoying and I agree that the game would be better without one shot abilities. But...where does that end? I can set my TR up to do pretty massive one shot hits with things other than SE as well, and other classes have some powerful attacks as well, those knive things that drop from the sky and IBS come to mind...where do we draw the line on this?
Umm, there is no comparison to any other ability in the game. Shocking execution with first strike or SoD procs can do 280k unmittigatable damage. No other ability in game from any class is comparable. For classes without immunity frames/dodge mechanics it's insta death.
There is no line drawing because there is no comparison and trying to draw comparisons shows there is a distinct disconnect in understanding. 280K piercing damage is unacceptable because 2-3 classes are completely helpless against it.
Thanks for your reply.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
Any "one shot" should leave you with 1-10 hp?
I think we're a bit too used to martial arts fights lasting a long time so we expect the same in PvP. Bruce Lee could have taken a lot less time in his fights, but it didn't make for "good entertainment".
I get one-shotted. It happens. It sucks, sure, but it happens. The analysis of it lets me see what I can improve on my build, or who should inspire me to emulate Sir Robin.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
Maybe you just want to be unkillable for all classes? Have that endless stalemate of you out healing all of our encounters and at wills while we dodge around your attacks that take off 1/3 or more of our hp with a single hit.
Sure pal... (no pun intended)
Thanks for your reply.
I am not defending a one shot player... because many useless attacks were made to build up that daily to try to take you down.
You can sit there afk and tank out plus heal out all the damage we do except for se.
If you think a TR should be able to one shot for 280K or even 260K we will disagree at the core because you don't have to fight to make this happen. You pop DC sigil, stealth up, first strike or SoD for 280K and move on to the next target without putting yourself at risk at all. If you think this should be a viable build then you are defending the cheesiest of cheese in game. So, we will simply disagree. There are plenty of ways to take down players without one shotting them using all the abilities a TR has at his disposal (SB, SE, CB).
So I say again, one shots should not happen in game. First strike and SoD should be optimized so that players have a chance to fight back against SE even if they play a toon that has no dodge/immunity frames.
Thanks for your reply.
People are saying nerf courage breaker and out control builds, plus saying nerf see and our damage builds.