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Why Can't Clerics Turn Undead?

safespacecadet#3341 safespacecadet Member Posts: 374 Arc User
edited April 2017 in Player Feedback (PC)
Also: Why Don't Clerics and Paladins Do More Damage to Undead, Devils, and Demons Than Other Classes?

Maybe all our Clerics and Paladins are not faithful enough.

EDIT: This is an example of how Turn Undead works for those of you who are not aware.

"Channel Divinity: Attempts to drive away nearby undead or force them to cower.
To turn undead you must make a turning check (roll 1 twenty-sided die + your total Charisma modifier) to determine the Hit Dice of the most powerful undead you can effect. Then you roll 2 six-sided dice + your Cleric level + your Charisma modifier to determine the total Hit Dice of creatures in the area that can turn.
Turned undead cower in place or flee. If you have twice as many levels as the undead have Hit Dice, you destroy any that you would normally turn. All Channel Divinity abilities use the same pool of uses per rest.
Turn Undead Mechanics

Turning undead consists of the following checks:

Turning check: A charisma check (1d20 + your charisma modifier) determines the hit dice of the most powerful enemy you can affect (See table below.)
Turning damage: Total number of hit dice you can affect is 2d6 + effective cleric level + charisma modifier (Paladins get a -3 to level.)

Destroying undead: If you have twice or more as many effective cleric levels (Turning value) as the undead have hit dice, you destroy any that you would normally turn. The Mighty Turning enhancement allows you to destroy any undead that has less or equal hit dice to the turning check result."

- from http://ddowiki.com/page/Turn_Undead

I'm not sure if that is 5th edition though.
Post edited by safespacecadet#3341 on

Comments

  • evilsquirrel03evilsquirrel03 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    Because this isn't really DnD...it's an MMO with Faerun as it's setting.
  • safespacecadet#3341 safespacecadet Member Posts: 374 Arc User

    Because this isn't really DnD...it's an MMO with Faerun as it's setting.

    I was almost gonna post a thread called, "What If This Was Really Dungeons & Dragons", but I stopped myself.
  • grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,603 Arc User

    Also: Why Don't Clerics and Paladins Do More Damage to Undead, Devils, and Demons Than Other Classes?

    Maybe all our Clerics and Paladins are not faithful enough.

    Part of the problem is this Neverwinter is an MMO (with different rules) and not D&D. Part of the problem is scaling the combats to the level of the player(s). A level 70 Cleric/Paladin should have no problem turning level 1 skeletons or Zombie rotters, but may not be able to turn the (scaled up to) level 70 skeletons and rotter zombies.

    I was used to playing Neverwinter with (1 hp) minion hordes, this is not possible in an MMO, but hordes (40-75) of 1 hp minions could be placed into the game where they do full damage, but die in groups if hit (and the players always hit).
  • safespacecadet#3341 safespacecadet Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    edited April 2017

    Also: Why Don't Clerics and Paladins Do More Damage to Undead, Devils, and Demons Than Other Classes?

    Maybe all our Clerics and Paladins are not faithful enough.

    Part of the problem is this Neverwinter is an MMO (with different rules) and not D&D. Part of the problem is scaling the combats to the level of the player(s). A level 70 Cleric/Paladin should have no problem turning level 1 skeletons or Zombie rotters, but may not be able to turn the (scaled up to) level 70 skeletons and rotter zombies.

    I was used to playing Neverwinter with (1 hp) minion hordes, this is not possible in an MMO, but hordes (40-75) of 1 hp minions could be placed into the game where they do full damage, but die in groups if hit (and the players always hit).
    Well, yes, turning undead is not successful all the time, and of course, it's easier to turn or destroy less powerful undead. But what if clerics and paladins had the Turn Undead encounter power that could force undead to cower, flee, or even outright destroy them? The Banishment power of paladin could be tweaked a little bit to make the cower effect. Or cowering could just be a longer type of stun or daze, Making the flee effect should be possible, since mobs will run back to their spawn points if you flee out of their aggro zone. Or, instead of an encounter power, Turn Undead could be place in a potion slot, represented by the cleric's or paladin's holy symbol. (I realize clerics have their holy symbol equipped in hand, but this would just be possible a way to use it to Turn Undead). And experience could still be gained. Forcing an enemy to flee counts as a victory in my book.

    Also, it does say Dungeons & Dragons Neverwinter on my log-in screen. I checked.
    Post edited by safespacecadet#3341 on
  • jganthjganth Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    Not sure if it's misleading or not but it's interesting in the games current opening cut scene how Celese turns a bunch of Zombies approaching her while she is healing Xuna...

    Another interesting observation - when running one of the Maze Engine quests in the Chasm with Linu La'neral, she casts a 'Protection from Evil' radius; where's that in the DC list of Powers? Could be useful when running Underdark content to thwart off madness, etc. - can't deny that mechanic is not yet implemented, but consider opening it up to existing classes that would use it (DC, OP).

    I think it's great how using the D&D moniker will draw in fans of the brand - imagine if the content for these modules did not come from Wizards of the Coast and didn't coincide with their releases of said content.

    That being said, there are countless opportunities to implement new mechanics into this game rather than implement modules that supports repetitive playstyle, expiration stress, alterations or reuse of existing adventure areas and new variations on the same existing mechanics/stats.
  • safespacecadet#3341 safespacecadet Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    jganth said:

    Not sure if it's misleading or not but it's interesting in the games current opening cut scene how Celese turns a bunch of Zombies approaching her while she is healing Xuna...

    Another interesting observation - when running one of the Maze Engine quests in the Chasm with Linu La'neral, she casts a 'Protection from Evil' radius; where's that in the DC list of Powers? Could be useful when running Underdark content to thwart off madness, etc. - can't deny that mechanic is not yet implemented, but consider opening it up to existing classes that would use it (DC, OP).

    I think it's great how using the D&D moniker will draw in fans of the brand - imagine if the content for these modules did not come from Wizards of the Coast and didn't coincide with their releases of said content.

    That being said, there are countless opportunities to implement new mechanics into this game rather than implement modules that supports repetitive playstyle, expiration stress, alterations or reuse of existing adventure areas and new variations on the same existing mechanics/stats.

    MMORPGs might not exist without Dungeons & Dragons. Why is Dungeons & Dragons trying to be like World of Warcrap?

  • sockmunkeysockmunkey Member Posts: 4,622 Arc User
    So you want a power that will cause all the mobs that the party has gathered up and engaged to scatter and move away from the people causing them hurt?

    We already have that power, its called sunburst. And no one wants to play with a Cleric who uses it poorly.
  • safespacecadet#3341 safespacecadet Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    edited April 2017

    So you want a power that will cause all the mobs that the party has gathered up and engaged to scatter and move away from the people causing them hurt?

    We already have that power, its called sunburst. And no one wants to play with a Cleric who uses it poorly.

    Why do you need to kill everything you see? Turning Undead can cause them to cower, flee, or even kill them instantly. Maybe you like the kill them instantly part.

    Why do you only, or only mostly, gain experience from killing things or being told to kill things by the holder-handers, i.e. quest givers (like a swell, obedient mercenary who can't think for his or herself)?
  • tyrtallowtyrtallow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    Did you people even bother to read what edition D&D Neverwinter was based on?
    If you have a problem with "classic" skills like Turn Undead missing in the game, bring it up with whoever designed D&D 4th edition.
    You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
  • tyrtallowtyrtallow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    Well, welcome to 4th edition where one of the major gods of D&D IS a devil/demon (Asmodeus, he ate Azuth and gained his divinity) and where Turn Undead behaves very similarly to the cleric power Sunburst (surprise!) except it ONLY affects undead.

    Gee, I wonder why the devs decided not to remain too faithful to the source material that time.
    You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
  • safespacecadet#3341 safespacecadet Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    tyrtallow said:

    Did you people even bother to read what edition D&D Neverwinter was based on?
    If you have a problem with "classic" skills like Turn Undead missing in the game, bring it up with whoever designed D&D 4th edition.

    I know this is based on 5th edition Dungeons and Dragons (in some respects anyway). But are you sure that there is no Turn Undead power in 5th edition?

    https://www.google.com/#q=D&D+5th+edition+turn+undead

    Some people that play seem to think there is.

    Anyway, you can probably thank MMORPGs like Everkill and World of Warcrap for 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons (released in 2008). Not sure why anyone would want to imitate the imitators when they have the original source material, but I'm not in charge.
  • safespacecadet#3341 safespacecadet Member Posts: 374 Arc User

    YES! we use the power of the gods and should do double damages to undead and demons!

    Double damage is probably too much. I'm not sure though, I don't want to bother to look up what the 5th edition rulebook says about it.
  • safespacecadet#3341 safespacecadet Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    tyrtallow said:

    Well, welcome to 4th edition where one of the major gods of D&D IS a devil/demon (Asmodeus, he ate Azuth and gained his divinity) and where Turn Undead behaves very similarly to the cleric power Sunburst (surprise!) except it ONLY affects undead.

    Gee, I wonder why the devs decided not to remain too faithful to the source material that time.

    Which part do you have a problem with? Also, stop belittling sunburst. It's a very useful power that keeps my cleric alive often. If I use it when and where you don't like it, oh well. Maybe my cleric doesn't like the way your character looks or smells. Good thing we don't need each other to play this game.
  • tyrtallowtyrtallow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    You might want to read my posts better. You obviously don't even understand what you're quoting.

    Also, Neverwinter is based on 4TH EDITION. It's slowly moving towards 5TH EDITION, but most of the old content is still 4th edition. Is it really not obvious given all the "at-will"/"encounter"/"daily" "power" terminology?
    You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
  • safespacecadet#3341 safespacecadet Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    tyrtallow said:

    You might want to read my posts better. You obviously don't even understand what you're quoting.

    Also, Neverwinter is based on 4TH EDITION. It's slowly moving towards 5TH EDITION, but most of the old content is still 4th edition. Is it really not obvious given all the "at-will"/"encounter"/"daily" "power" terminology?

    You're right, I'm wrong. Now, that I think about it, Neverwinter was released in 2013, while 5th edition wasn't released until 2014. I just believed what I read someone wrote a long time ago and repeated it like I was in high school or college or something. To be honest, I really don't know too many details about 4th edition*. I haven't played pencil-and-paper D&D since 2nd edition, as I discovered that being a Dungeon Master and having a life don't mix well. Of course, playing mmorpgs regularly and having a life don't mix too well either. Anyway, if you want me to understand you, you need to speak slowly and enunciate big words. I'm sort of a moron.

    *Here's some interesting reading if you care - https://www.google.com/#q=d&d+4th+edition+problems
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