Mod 11 - thinking of SB

2

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  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited April 2017


    Because Cambion... I'm at 100% crit all the time, and 175% severity in fight with vorpal. And the rider uptime is that what I can say after tests and only looking about the proc showing up. Maybe it's a bit less, without logs hard to say so I want to test if the cambion performs a bit better maybe. Yes it's 10% on epic.

    At 175% Critseverity the 10% + critseverity will do a dps increase of 3.636%, if I read correctly that crazy math graph I am starring at.
    Btw. how does vorpal buff your critseverity by 75% from 100 to 175 ?

    A 10% dps increase... is a 10% dps increase I guess, like a multiplier x1,1.
    So if the uptime of your wild Hunt rider is like >35% it will beat your cambion mage.

    Epic Wild Hunt rider: "On Encounter Use: 5% chance to increase damage by 10% for 5 seconds."
    On every 20´s encounter you get a 5 sec uptime (average), you need to use about 80 encounter in a minute to get a 20 second uptime (33% )
    If PoP , Bova or DT work on every tick, you might get it done. If hitting multiple targets and every tick counts, you will have no issues to have buffs up far more often I guess, on a sinlge target it might be not that efficient?
    The airarchon+firearchon together are about 5,5% and 3,75% dps increase.
    I run sellsword, OBC, Fire, Airarchon and Erinyes atm.
  • terrasight#2000
    terrasight#2000 Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    I have 115% with boons on myself, then with bufffood 125% + 50% vorpal. The point why I want to test cambion is because i'm not 100% "sure" about the rider uptime without logfiles, and the cambion is 100% up of the time then. I can only test it...

    I run fire, air, erinyes, obc and rider... sellsword I need the gear first.

    Not many options at this point :D
  • naoqueroforum
    naoqueroforum Member Posts: 225 Arc User
    Man, how I want sword coast adventures to return. I was expecting the IG gear to substitute loyal without a shadow of a doubt. But the way they made it... and how they forgot about recovery... my DC dreams gone forever.

    @schietindebux pointed exactly what I would point out. If standing at 175% severity and 100% crit chance, the magus will be a 3.636% (285/275 - 1) increase in critable damage. The higher the severity, the lesser the benefit. Would be cool if there was a use for crit chance above 100%, but only warlocks should benefit from it :) When you see a 4k gwf that actually knows what he is doing (most don't, not hard to see a good 3.1k gwf with greater vorpal outdpsing most 4k bis dps built gwf's) you just feel like building your warlock for support.

    But really. I want SCA back. I want to feel that my old legendary companions are not useless.
  • darthbane13#2662
    darthbane13#2662 Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    Does the 5 second wild hunt buff stack multiple time or No? And does anyone know for sure of it can proc on the I individual ticks of POP DT and blades?
  • garlaanx
    garlaanx Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    Hey guys.. Sorry, I don't come around as much as I use too. Mod 11 launched Tuesday on Console and I have been testing stuff ever since on stream. For the past few days I respec'ed into Soulbinder again. 100% full Fury atm. No DR.

    I've been trying different variations in powers, etc. Before SB was pretty irrelevant compared to HB in over all DPS. However, now with the new changes to weapon enchantments.. SB is back in the game! (and maybe even better)

    First, let's talk about some basics. SB in my opinion right now should be able to lead in DPS against single Target Boss/Encounters. The survival rate is still very low though.. I was dying pretty often. Typical SB Fury woes that players should be familiar with anyway. The SB AoE seems a bit low. I did some testing with the Lightning Enchant + BOVA and I saw a ton of pretty numbers flying...but the damage wasn't a ton.. not compared to the GWF multi-proc'in the enchant. In the end, I didn't think it was worth it.

    Now, let's talk about SB Fury in single target boss/encounters. Normal rotation of HG + SS + KF was the main set up. I mainly tested with a Feytouch Enchant. The Fey + HG spark generation is insane. You will gain more sparks than you will be able to cast SS thus pretty much letting you spam SS. Remember to cast Curse every single time before SS which sucks as it takes time. The only thing you need to pay attention to is making sure HG crit's. Shouldn't be a problem for anyone who is max etc. HG crit'ing procs the Fey everytime, hence the high amount of spark generation. Now, the theory is..is that SS Spam "Might" do enough DPS to actually out DPS HB Fury. I haven't been able to test everything 100% etc but I've concluded that SB Fury will most likely win on single target boss/encounters over HB Fury. In a normal maxed out buff group, the SB Fury damage is truly insane. 1-2mil+ crit hits on SS every cast adds up pretty quickly. However, when comparing over all damage wise.. the end DPS isn't overall higher since the SB Fury lacks AoE damage generation. In dungeons like ETOS and even FBI.. HB Fury should out preform on AoE, where as the SB Fury will take the cake on boss encounters. I haven't tested any other weapon enchants yet but it does seem the Fey will be the most ideal.


    Now, as personal preference I would much rather stay HB Fury just because I've grown accustom to the playstyle. It will be up to the player to decide what they want to do/play. Furthermore.. once Mod 11b/11.5 hits console and the loadouts become a thing.. then it's game over boys! You could have a HB Fury for AoE.. then switch to the SB Fury for bosses.. it will be amazing.


    Also just to add I noticed you guys talking about the Wild Hunt Rider. It does currently proc on every single tick of PoP. As far as SB goes.. its meh... it proc's but not enough. You would be better using anything that increases DPS based on a % value as it will add to the Fey % damage. Now, I've heard some rumors flying around that the WHR is actually getting nerfed and it's on preview already. Apparently the time aspect of it will not stack anymore. So you will have a 5% chance to proc it and get the 10% damage for only 5 seconds.. where as before.. every time it was proc'in the time would just accumulate. Will it continue to be used on SW.. meh.. we will cross that bridge when and if it does happen. CW/HR should still be able to maintain it fairy well.
    Forsaken World
    Inferno Vampire - Garlaanx

    Neverwinter
    Warlock - Garlaanx
  • jaime4312#3760
    jaime4312#3760 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I noticed about damage diference when I ran with a SB in early mod 10.5 (I was HB) I think, our toons had comparable stats (like, very close and both of us with rank 12 bondings, heck, his weapon enchantment was lower ranked than mine lol) and I couldn't keep up with him. At least for single target damage and if both SWs are similarly geared/skill, SB outperforms HB in long fights against high/very high hp enemies, say, in FBI and MSVA, especially bosses: fury specced SB TAB SS spam (if enough time) + creeping death > fury specced, OBC-powered HB.

    What @garlaanx and @schietindebux have stated about feytouched ench sparks generation is very interesting, thanks for the info guys, it may be interesting to test that out and run it (even if not optimal for fury SB) at least for variety's sake. Loadouts will indeed be a nice thing to try getting the best out of HB and SB.
  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    My T Dread using BoVa deals more DPS than my T Fey using HG as SB fury, BoVa also generate a lot sparks same as HG does.
    This works on bosses that doesn't move like Storvald, Turtle, Hati.
    Running mSP or Drufi things may look different, Fey+HG > Dread+BoVA
  • tostrek2012
    tostrek2012 Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    Any recommended guide for Soulbinder+Fury? Thanks.
  • garlaanx
    garlaanx Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    fernuu said:

    garlaanx said:

    I've been trying different variations in powers, etc. Before SB was pretty irrelevant compared to HB in over all DPS. However, now with the new changes to weapon enchantments.. SB is back in the game! (and maybe even better)

    Sorry, I stopped reading after that. SB was always superior on damage to HB.
    Nah sorry it really wasn't.. and the sad thing is.. you PC players even have ACT to parse the damage. But whatever.. I'm not gonna argue with you about it. This thread is meant to talk about the SB path.. keep it that way or free feel to go somewhere else.

    My T Dread using BoVa deals more DPS than my T Fey using HG as SB fury, BoVa also generate a lot sparks same as HG does.

    This works on bosses that doesn't move like Storvald, Turtle, Hati.

    Running mSP or Drufi things may look different, Fey+HG > Dread+BoVA

    Yea, this could happen. But I wasn't running BOVA with the Fey nor Dread. BOVA was only for AoE damage so I was trying to use Lighting in that situation. HG+Feytouch should do more damage than BOVA+Dread even on a single target. But the spark generation is a bonus = spamming Soul Scorch is what we want.

    Any recommended guide for Soulbinder+Fury? Thanks.

    Trying to get the testing done and maybe shoot for a Friday release.

    Forsaken World
    Inferno Vampire - Garlaanx

    Neverwinter
    Warlock - Garlaanx
  • ppwojtek
    ppwojtek Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    full fury SB > HB with dark revelery
    that's the fact xD
  • terrasight#2000
    terrasight#2000 Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    ppwojtek said:

    full fury SB > HB with dark revelery
    that's the fact xD

    Depends on the situation I think.
    Dungeons with a lot of trash HB can do better in my opinion.
    With more single targets SB can do better.

    Thats why i'm happy if the loadouts hits live and I can switch between HB and SB for AoE/Trash and single target...

  • tom#6998
    tom#6998 Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    The sad thing is we even proved it with act and u still didnt believe us...

    It still interests me how the fey ench change can improve SB dmg from irrelevant to better then HB. That ench must be broken xD. Like srly by how much % u think it boosted our dps?

    Any word on that @garlaanx ?
  • ppwojtek
    ppwojtek Member Posts: 23 Arc User

    ppwojtek said:

    full fury SB > HB with dark revelery
    that's the fact xD

    Depends on the situation I think.
    Dungeons with a lot of trash HB can do better in my opinion.
    With more single targets SB can do better.

    Thats why i'm happy if the loadouts hits live and I can switch between HB and SB for AoE/Trash and single target...

    Actually i run usually with SS, BoVa and Fiery Bolt and just change rotation to SS, KF, HG On Bosses(Sometimes just stay with Bova instead on HG on this configuration if Boss doesnt move)
    And i must say my warlock really doing really good job on trash(ofc single target dmg is way better) if there is a lot of mobs im just using bova, fb, and daily the brood of hadar, and finish of the rest of mobs with my ss. If there is some bigger mobs, then just put TT at everything just dissapear ;)

    Sorry for grammar i hope this post is clearly.

  • terrasight#2000
    terrasight#2000 Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    ppwojtek said:

    ppwojtek said:

    full fury SB > HB with dark revelery
    that's the fact xD

    Depends on the situation I think.
    Dungeons with a lot of trash HB can do better in my opinion.
    With more single targets SB can do better.

    Thats why i'm happy if the loadouts hits live and I can switch between HB and SB for AoE/Trash and single target...

    Actually i run usually with SS, BoVa and Fiery Bolt and just change rotation to SS, KF, HG On Bosses(Sometimes just stay with Bova instead on HG on this configuration if Boss doesnt move)
    And i must say my warlock really doing really good job on trash(ofc single target dmg is way better) if there is a lot of mobs im just using bova, fb, and daily the brood of hadar, and finish of the rest of mobs with my ss. If there is some bigger mobs, then just put TT at everything just dissapear ;)

    Sorry for grammar i hope this post is clearly.

    All fine, don't look at MY grammar... :D

  • fernuu
    fernuu Member Posts: 453 Arc User
    garlaanx said:

    fernuu said:

    garlaanx said:

    I've been trying different variations in powers, etc. Before SB was pretty irrelevant compared to HB in over all DPS. However, now with the new changes to weapon enchantments.. SB is back in the game! (and maybe even better)

    Sorry, I stopped reading after that. SB was always superior on damage to HB.
    Nah sorry it really wasn't.. and the sad thing is.. you PC players even have ACT to parse the damage. But whatever.. I'm not gonna argue with you about it. This thread is meant to talk about the SB path.. keep it that way or free feel to go somewhere else.

    My T Dread using BoVa deals more DPS than my T Fey using HG as SB fury, BoVa also generate a lot sparks same as HG does.

    This works on bosses that doesn't move like Storvald, Turtle, Hati.

    Running mSP or Drufi things may look different, Fey+HG > Dread+BoVA

    Yea, this could happen. But I wasn't running BOVA with the Fey nor Dread. BOVA was only for AoE damage so I was trying to use Lighting in that situation. HG+Feytouch should do more damage than BOVA+Dread even on a single target. But the spark generation is a bonus = spamming Soul Scorch is what we want.

    Any recommended guide for Soulbinder+Fury? Thanks.

    Trying to get the testing done and maybe shoot for a Friday release.

    Sure. I will keep this about SB path (well, I did it earlier too, nevermind).

    Here's my shot from Mod 10.5. Can't say it's best DPS build but definitely it works fine ;)



    As mentioned before, HB will only do more damage in AoE/trash mobs. But SW shines on single target anyway, it's a lot easier for GWF/CW/HR to do AoE stuff.
    https://youtube.com/c/FernuStormborn

    Mod 10:
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Killing Flames deals 16636893 (1009292) Fire Damage to Ethraniev Marrowslake.

    Mod 9:
    [Combat (Self)] Your Murderous Flames deals 376274433 (18876929) Fire Damage to Red Tiamat Head.
  • lyaise
    lyaise Member Posts: 491 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    garlaanx said:

    fernuu said:

    garlaanx said:

    I've been trying different variations in powers, etc. Before SB was pretty irrelevant compared to HB in over all DPS. However, now with the new changes to weapon enchantments.. SB is back in the game! (and maybe even better)

    Sorry, I stopped reading after that. SB was always superior on damage to HB.
    Nah sorry it really wasn't.. and the sad thing is.. you PC players even have ACT to parse the damage. But whatever.. I'm not gonna argue with you about it. This thread is meant to talk about the SB path.. keep it that way or free feel to go somewhere else.

    My T Dread using BoVa deals more DPS than my T Fey using HG as SB fury, BoVa also generate a lot sparks same as HG does.

    This works on bosses that doesn't move like Storvald, Turtle, Hati.

    Running mSP or Drufi things may look different, Fey+HG > Dread+BoVA

    Yea, this could happen. But I wasn't running BOVA with the Fey nor Dread. BOVA was only for AoE damage so I was trying to use Lighting in that situation. HG+Feytouch should do more damage than BOVA+Dread even on a single target. But the spark generation is a bonus = spamming Soul Scorch is what we want.

    Any recommended guide for Soulbinder+Fury? Thanks.

    Trying to get the testing done and maybe shoot for a Friday release.

    Garlaanx - good to meet you (well in forum chat anyway) :smile:
    Firstly thank you for all your guides, in mmominds and also the videos.

    Now I did post in the SW forum about your build on mmominds:
    http://mmominds.com/2017/01/20/garls-warlock-hellbringer-fury-pve-build-mod-10/
    I have to admit that I switched to a build suggested by schietindebux and found it worked better for me - but I fully appreciate that it's down to personal playstyle, and gear of course, and the more successful builds the better.

    A quick question if you would be kind enough: Is your SW build on mmominds going to be updated soon? Or do you have another location for your builds?
    Incidentally, looking forward to loadouts - so will be looking for a Templock build IF I can get my head around all the apparent contradictory opinions on the forum regarding that option.
    Anyway, thanks again for all your time in helping others.
    Post edited by lyaise on
    ...............vote for your favourite expansion..........
    "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
    ..............not this one then.............
  • cindy#5704
    cindy#5704 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    Ok í have reading this for a while and did testing myself. I know many might not know me but soul binder fury is higher dps the hell bringer on single target/ Boss fights. He'll bringer is better for aoe. Yes soul binder does have less survivability. It doesn't matter what u want to play. Just pick what u like. I played soul binder for over a week now and I like it. But hell bringer is so easy and lazy to play. Lol. That I like. U all are correct about runs go smooth with hell bringer but I run the dark revelery buff. U can also choose to run the same buff as a soul binder as under sir Valdics soul binder face melting guide. He explains perfect what to be doing and why ur doing what u r doing so u can still buff. Play how u want to play. I thought the boss fights went quicker as I was soul binder. All my fbi runs where 20 mins and for me that was faster than I was running as hell bringer. But this is my personal opinion. Remember to run soul binder u have to have 100 percent or as close to 100 percent crit for u to be procing creeping death. Hope this might help someone as their is such a fight between the two.
  • jaime4312#3760
    jaime4312#3760 Member Posts: 844 Arc User

    Ok í have reading this for a while and did testing myself. I know many might not know me but soul binder fury is higher dps the hell bringer on single target/ Boss fights. He'll bringer is better for aoe. Yes soul binder does have less survivability. It doesn't matter what u want to play. Just pick what u like. I played soul binder for over a week now and I like it. But hell bringer is so easy and lazy to play. Lol. That I like. U all are correct about runs go smooth with hell bringer but I run the dark revelery buff. U can also choose to run the same buff as a soul binder as under sir Valdics soul binder face melting guide. He explains perfect what to be doing and why ur doing what u r doing so u can still buff. Play how u want to play. I thought the boss fights went quicker as I was soul binder. All my fbi runs where 20 mins and for me that was faster than I was running as hell bringer. But this is my personal opinion. Remember to run soul binder u have to have 100 percent or as close to 100 percent crit for u to be procing creeping death. Hope this might help someone as their is such a fight between the two.

    As you said, it comes down to one's preferences, but:
    Power of the nine hells >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dark rewelry. If you choose the later over the former you're hurting your own and your team's dps because the damage boost from feated PoP (24% for SW and 18% for the rest of group members) beats the power boost of dark rewelry.

    I can't really comment on choosing dark rewelry as soulbinder because it is the e-peen paragon and as such I think one should focus on personal damage. If going with dark rewelry provides more damage than other options in fury tree then that'd be good to have that sweet speed boost! Either way, your summoned companion should be a sellsword/rebel mercenary if you can get the gear for them and if you don't then the con artist is a very good option (this is the one I have now, rngeesus hates me so can't get gear for sellsword), they all put an uncapped debuff on enemies that increases everyone's damage and that stacks with that of other companions like them, they do up to 5 times so that's a 50% increase in effectiveness for the whole group. Imo, if you are running any companion other than those in end game content you are wasting your and your team's time.
  • merhunesdagon1
    merhunesdagon1 Member Posts: 146 Arc User

    Ok í have reading this for a while and did testing myself. I know many might not know me but soul binder fury is higher dps the hell bringer on single target/ Boss fights. He'll bringer is better for aoe. Yes soul binder does have less survivability. It doesn't matter what u want to play. Just pick what u like. I played soul binder for over a week now and I like it. But hell bringer is so easy and lazy to play. Lol. That I like. U all are correct about runs go smooth with hell bringer but I run the dark revelery buff. U can also choose to run the same buff as a soul binder as under sir Valdics soul binder face melting guide. He explains perfect what to be doing and why ur doing what u r doing so u can still buff. Play how u want to play. I thought the boss fights went quicker as I was soul binder. All my fbi runs where 20 mins and for me that was faster than I was running as hell bringer. But this is my personal opinion. Remember to run soul binder u have to have 100 percent or as close to 100 percent crit for u to be procing creeping death. Hope this might help someone as their is such a fight between the two.

    As you said, it comes down to one's preferences, but:
    Power of the nine hells >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dark rewelry. If you choose the later over the former you're hurting your own and your team's dps because the damage boost from feated PoP (24% for SW and 18% for the rest of group members) beats the power boost of dark rewelry.

    I can't really comment on choosing dark rewelry as soulbinder because it is the e-peen paragon and as such I think one should focus on personal damage. If going with dark rewelry provides more damage than other options in fury tree then that'd be good to have that sweet speed boost! Either way, your summoned companion should be a sellsword/rebel mercenary if you can get the gear for them and if you don't then the con artist is a very good option (this is the one I have now, rngeesus hates me so can't get gear for sellsword), they all put an uncapped debuff on enemies that increases everyone's damage and that stacks with that of other companions like them, they do up to 5 times so that's a 50% increase in effectiveness for the whole group. Imo, if you are running any companion other than those in end game content you are wasting your and your team's time.
    MF>>DR and sellsword will be dying alot since its melee. should go for a ranged companion like fire archon
  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User

    Ok í have reading this for a while and did testing myself. I know many might not know me but soul binder fury is higher dps the hell bringer on single target/ Boss fights. He'll bringer is better for aoe. Yes soul binder does have less survivability. It doesn't matter what u want to play. Just pick what u like. I played soul binder for over a week now and I like it. But hell bringer is so easy and lazy to play. Lol. That I like. U all are correct about runs go smooth with hell bringer but I run the dark revelery buff. U can also choose to run the same buff as a soul binder as under sir Valdics soul binder face melting guide. He explains perfect what to be doing and why ur doing what u r doing so u can still buff. Play how u want to play. I thought the boss fights went quicker as I was soul binder. All my fbi runs where 20 mins and for me that was faster than I was running as hell bringer. But this is my personal opinion. Remember to run soul binder u have to have 100 percent or as close to 100 percent crit for u to be procing creeping death. Hope this might help someone as their is such a fight between the two.

    As you said, it comes down to one's preferences, but:
    Power of the nine hells >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dark rewelry. If you choose the later over the former you're hurting your own and your team's dps because the damage boost from feated PoP (24% for SW and 18% for the rest of group members) beats the power boost of dark rewelry.

    I can't really comment on choosing dark rewelry as soulbinder because it is the e-peen paragon and as such I think one should focus on personal damage. If going with dark rewelry provides more damage than other options in fury tree then that'd be good to have that sweet speed boost! Either way, your summoned companion should be a sellsword/rebel mercenary if you can get the gear for them and if you don't then the con artist is a very good option (this is the one I have now, rngeesus hates me so can't get gear for sellsword), they all put an uncapped debuff on enemies that increases everyone's damage and that stacks with that of other companions like them, they do up to 5 times so that's a 50% increase in effectiveness for the whole group. Imo, if you are running any companion other than those in end game content you are wasting your and your team's time.
    MF>>DR and sellsword will be dying alot since its melee. should go for a ranged companion like fire archon
    Get a sellsword to legendary and it won´t die much more than any other companion, if so get a liras bell and revive him.
    Most DC´s stick with the tank in melee, they normally should. I know that my DC does, and he is not looking after any Hunter in the corner of the map or a CW and his firearchon 50 feet away, i am in melee as DC and by that buff all companions beside the boss: Devine glow, Annoited Army, Blessing of battle, Weapon of light.
    You have to be very clever to to get that fire Archon in range of all those buffs all time.
  • terrasight#2000
    terrasight#2000 Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    Annoying that the companion gear from skirmish (for my sellsword) coming not with the stats I 'm looking for (why more crit then power on it? why not like adorable bites?) and a pain to grind...

    After 100 runs...nothing... 1 +4 ring... wonderful...^^ This way sadly it's easier to stay with FA or the con artist...
  • hadestemplar#9918
    hadestemplar#9918 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,027 Arc User

    Annoying that the companion gear from skirmish (for my sellsword) coming not with the stats I 'm looking for (why more crit then power on it? why not like adorable bites?) and a pain to grind...

    After 100 runs...nothing... 1 +4 ring... wonderful...^^ This way sadly it's easier to stay with FA or the con artist...

    Check auction house,, there are still remained some old companion gear. They cost, but they provide decent stats...
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  • jaime4312#3760
    jaime4312#3760 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
    @merhunesdagon1

    I hope you meant taking MF instead of infernal wrath because (asuming your group hits the debuff cap) if you don't pick power of the nine hells you may as well be soulbinder. Ranged pets and every companion that have no uncapped debuffs factually are, with the current stat of the game, significantly inferior to sellsword/rebel mercenary/con artist, you can't argue that, not if team efficiency and fastest boss killing times is what you are looking for.

    @terrasight#2000

    I'm sorry guys but that's wrong. At least since the bonding stones rework, in no way, shape or form the fire archon compares to rebel mercenary/con artist/sellsword as they offer party utility whereas the fire archon doesn't at all and its active bonus is pretty mediocre which of course means it cannot make up for the lack of group wide uncapped debuff the other companions offer.

    If you have a summoned fire archon you're slowing your team down, it is okay as active but terrible as summoned as it only serves e-peen purposes and even then stacking uncapped debuff companions blows it out of the water.

    Group wtih con artists > group with fire archons. If not possible to get companion gear for the sellsword, I strongly recommend the con artist, run some fbi/msva and you'll eventually have 3 nice legendary dod rings, that's what I'm going after and I tecnically achieved it already, once unbind tokens get released I will move the dps rings to my sw (I'm missing only 1 legendary ring on my warlock or 2 power crit ones if trying bis) and the tank ring to my gf, in the meantime I will keep running fbi when having chance to, I may get another one.

    Best in slot: sellsword/rebel merccenary
    2nd best: con artist.

    No companion compares to those if the group runs them, not with the current state of the game and the current meta.
  • terrasight#2000
    terrasight#2000 Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    @jaime4312#3760 I use con artist with adorable bites but i want the sellsword completed. But without gear its useless...

    @bloodyspamer sadly not on ps4...
  • merhunesdagon1
    merhunesdagon1 Member Posts: 146 Arc User

    Ok í have reading this for a while and did testing myself. I know many might not know me but soul binder fury is higher dps the hell bringer on single target/ Boss fights. He'll bringer is better for aoe. Yes soul binder does have less survivability. It doesn't matter what u want to play. Just pick what u like. I played soul binder for over a week now and I like it. But hell bringer is so easy and lazy to play. Lol. That I like. U all are correct about runs go smooth with hell bringer but I run the dark revelery buff. U can also choose to run the same buff as a soul binder as under sir Valdics soul binder face melting guide. He explains perfect what to be doing and why ur doing what u r doing so u can still buff. Play how u want to play. I thought the boss fights went quicker as I was soul binder. All my fbi runs where 20 mins and for me that was faster than I was running as hell bringer. But this is my personal opinion. Remember to run soul binder u have to have 100 percent or as close to 100 percent crit for u to be procing creeping death. Hope this might help someone as their is such a fight between the two.

    As you said, it comes down to one's preferences, but:
    Power of the nine hells >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dark rewelry. If you choose the later over the former you're hurting your own and your team's dps because the damage boost from feated PoP (24% for SW and 18% for the rest of group members) beats the power boost of dark rewelry.

    I can't really comment on choosing dark rewelry as soulbinder because it is the e-peen paragon and as such I think one should focus on personal damage. If going with dark rewelry provides more damage than other options in fury tree then that'd be good to have that sweet speed boost! Either way, your summoned companion should be a sellsword/rebel mercenary if you can get the gear for them and if you don't then the con artist is a very good option (this is the one I have now, rngeesus hates me so can't get gear for sellsword), they all put an uncapped debuff on enemies that increases everyone's damage and that stacks with that of other companions like them, they do up to 5 times so that's a 50% increase in effectiveness for the whole group. Imo, if you are running any companion other than those in end game content you are wasting your and your team's time.
    MF>>DR and sellsword will be dying alot since its melee. should go for a ranged companion like fire archon
    Get a sellsword to legendary and it won´t die much more than any other companion, if so get a liras bell and revive him.
    Most DC´s stick with the tank in melee, they normally should. I know that my DC does, and he is not looking after any Hunter in the corner of the map or a CW and his firearchon 50 feet away, i am in melee as DC and by that buff all companions beside the boss: Devine glow, Annoited Army, Blessing of battle, Weapon of light.
    You have to be very clever to to get that fire Archon in range of all those buffs all time.
    Sellsword will die alot and it takes longer to procc compare to the archon. SB shouldbe using Bova (or HG if u running a feytouched) and bova makes u stand as close as any melee class unless you'd be using dreadtheft for whatever crazy reason... Same would go for HB and PoP, a ranged class being 50 ft away from buffs? who are u running with exactly?
  • merhunesdagon1
    merhunesdagon1 Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited May 2017

    @merhunesdagon1

    I hope you meant taking MF instead of infernal wrath because (asuming your group hits the debuff cap) if you don't pick power of the nine hells you may as well be soulbinder. Ranged pets and every companion that have no uncapped debuffs factually are, with the current stat of the game, significantly inferior to sellsword/rebel mercenary/con artist, you can't argue that, not if team efficiency and fastest boss killing times is what you are looking for.

    @terrasight#2000

    I'm sorry guys but that's wrong. At least since the bonding stones rework, in no way, shape or form the fire archon compares to rebel mercenary/con artist/sellsword as they offer party utility whereas the fire archon doesn't at all and its active bonus is pretty mediocre which of course means it cannot make up for the lack of group wide uncapped debuff the other companions offer.

    If you have a summoned fire archon you're slowing your team down, it is okay as active but terrible as summoned as it only serves e-peen purposes and even then stacking uncapped debuff companions blows it out of the water.

    Group wtih con artists > group with fire archons. If not possible to get companion gear for the sellsword, I strongly recommend the con artist, run some fbi/msva and you'll eventually have 3 nice legendary dod rings, that's what I'm going after and I tecnically achieved it already, once unbind tokens get released I will move the dps rings to my sw (I'm missing only 1 legendary ring on my warlock or 2 power crit ones if trying bis) and the tank ring to my gf, in the meantime I will keep running fbi when having chance to, I may get another one.

    Best in slot: sellsword/rebel merccenary
    2nd best: con artist.

    No companion compares to those if the group runs them, not with the current state of the game and the current meta.

    @jaime4312 The post was about SB, not HB. I was referring to Murderous flames being slightly better than Dark revelry when it comes to single target dmg which is what SB is all about. At no time was I talking about infernal wraith or HB for that matter...

    If you want to offer party utility as a SW, then HB is the way to go. As a SB, it is all about personal dps, unless you're running DR. Which brings me back to archon. Archon is all about personal dmg. As a SB, why would you be worried about party utility as u provide none? If party utility is something you're concerned about as a SW, then by all means, HB is very viable option. AS far as buffs go on an Archon, it shouldnt be difficult to put AA on a fire archon, since its pretty ridiculous for a CW or any ranged class to be standing 50 ft away from getting those buffs(unless u are a HR, which has nothing to do with this post whatsoever). Like i said earlier, Im pretty much in melee range 90% of the time spamming bova and SS, same would go for a HB which knows what they are doing spamming PoP
  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    @merhunesdagon1

    Annoited Army, Blessing of battle, Weapon of light...all of those are short to mid range power buffs. I assure you that most of those Firearchons are out of range for my DC in several situations (like Storvald/mSVA). Only those clueless DC´s standing in the background instead off buffing in the center of the fight will reach those companions (lucky there are enough of those player).
    Not to talk again about the debuff, wicked strike=10% open debuff, means:
    You buff 5 player for a 10% increase of their effectivness, no cap at 200%. So if your effectivness is 100, you and your partymember deal 110%. If 5 player run those companions everyone deals 150% effect.- you can´t argue against this .. but you do interestingly
  • merhunesdagon1
    merhunesdagon1 Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited May 2017

    Annoited Army, Battle fervor, BoB, Weapon of light...all those powerbuffs are short ranged. I can assure you, that my DC dies not cover most of those Firearchons in let's say mSVA at all, too far away...not to talk again about wicked strike (stacking debuff).

    Archons are faster to proc the friendship bonuses and they die less since they are ranged. They do miss out on AA or WoL, Its really not at all that difficult to reposition a ranged companion to receive said buffs. as for con artist and sellsword, If you follow the nerfs, you can see in the future u wont be able to stack multiple debuffs of the same kind. long term fire archon is the way to go, but air archon is good too, since he's in melee range..Also, fire archon has a higher uptime due to DOT.
  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User

    Annoited Army, Battle fervor, BoB, Weapon of light...all those powerbuffs are short ranged. I can assure you, that my DC dies not cover most of those Firearchons in let's say mSVA at all, too far away...not to talk again about wicked strike (stacking debuff).

    Archons are faster to proc the friendship bonuses and they die less since they are ranged. They do miss out on AA or WoL, Its really not at all that difficult to reposition a ranged companion to receive said buffs. as for con artist and sellsword, If you follow the nerfs, you can see in the future u wont be able to stack multiple debuffs of the same kind. long term fire archon is the way to go, but air archon is good too, since he's in melee range..Also, fire archon has a higher uptime due to DOT.
    so we are now discussing what might happen tomorrow or in 3 years :) I am out