Wow that discussion took a serious turn to GimmeDPS Town... I was just talking about the animation times that coold be adjusted without a significant DPS increase all the more because the worst offenders are not damaging abilities (Heroism, CoP I'm looking at you) Even in the case of Smite, if the blow commes quicker, then we can just add 1 second to the cooldown. Paladin has either Leader or Defender for role. It stands to reason we wouldn't be top DPS. Our personal DPS is not THAT mediocre and we clearly have an impact on the efficiency of a team. Now if we could have a little more reactivity instead of this constant inertia I would be gratefull.
Well... dmg boost could come from Aura of wrath and Aura of restoration, if they wanted too boost dmg.
Aura of Wrath - Change it from diminishing HP -> Amount of dmg taken (similar too Galeb companion) Aura of Restoration - Change the healing% -> DMG% but would need too be less then Wrath since it would be a solid% vs unstable%
Banishment - immuneLongSTUN -> Circle of Light(another version of power) but unlike COP it would be for foes, basically a debuff when a foe steps inside the circle. radius instead of 30' -> 15'
Protection - Paladin gains more Threat generation while standing inside Devotion - basically same effect as banishment and what protection have for circle of power for there allies.
DPS GF is not squishy. So tired of hearing that lame notion put out there, it tanks just fine. Paladin needs quite a bit of a damage buff. It could start with giving Bonus damage to Constitution and/or Charisma and un-nerfing Divine Judgment.
This is something devs missed I think. Every other class has Damage Bonus from one ability score - even the DC who doesn't really need that (except soloing issues), some classes have also Resistance Ignored from ability score. Why Paladin didn't get any of those?
Trade offs are fine as long as they actually trade off something. Btw @jaime4312 BO was already nerfed, as was Divine Protector. 2 skills which used to be staples for paladin tanking are far less used now ( I personally dont use them anymore). TW and more accurately temp health is the only real tool for surviving OPs have. GFs, dps or not have first and foremost their block - a separate layer of protection reducing 80% of incoming dmg, then KV, Iron Warrior (personally i like this one but its cast is slow).
Honestly I dislike arguing for buffs for 1 class by pointing out how overpowered another may be but damn its that obvious. Also keep in mind, as small as it is, PVP is actually a big part of the game because there you find many of the truly bis players. And in there a GF is godlike both in damage dealing and damage taking while a Paladin is, at best, just hard to kill.
I've often thought that a balance could be achieved from the skill nerfs by boosting auras a bit.
Raising those capped at 12.5% to 15% and of course rewriting the useless ones; Vengeance weapon damage scale with power the same as they are doing with weapon enchantments ( @rgutscheradev ), Wrath changed to increased damage based on number of enemies within 50", Radiance needs a huge buff as it does almost no damage and generates v. little threat, Solitude to exclude companions & non-party players.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Restoration: seriously more incomming healing on an devOP? many Dev OP wish to have Restoration take the 'share healing part' of bond of virtue to free the encounter slot for something more active Life: could it please not bypass Soulforged? like maybe make soulforged a priority over aura of life? Aura of Valor should be switched with aura of wrath. Valor is clearly a tanking aura. Wrath wouldn't neceessarily be that usefull on an dev OP but it certainly wouldn't feel as useless as valor...
Trade offs are fine as long as they actually trade off something. Btw @jaime4312 BO was already nerfed, as was Divine Protector. 2 skills which used to be staples for paladin tanking are far less used now ( I personally dont use them anymore). TW and more accurately temp health is the only real tool for surviving OPs have. GFs, dps or not have first and foremost their block - a separate layer of protection reducing 80% of incoming dmg, then KV, Iron Warrior (personally i like this one but its cast is slow).
Honestly I dislike arguing for buffs for 1 class by pointing out how overpowered another may be but damn its that obvious. Also keep in mind, as small as it is, PVP is actually a big part of the game because there you find many of the truly bis players. And in there a GF is godlike both in damage dealing and damage taking while a Paladin is, at best, just hard to kill.
If you already create a group for op player PvP, it is not a problem. But if you enter at random and the opposing group is strong, you will be miserable. It's impossible to get rid of the control effects, can not damage, and bonuses like stealing life do not work. Gwf -Tr- even cw can benefit from these bonuses and they survive without dying. I have been playing PvP and Dungeon for 3 years now. I do not know what paladins do in PvP.Moreover, the paladins were weakened in the dungeons. Lastly, I will add that in the past, those who are seeking nerf for the paladin in PvP days are now dying in the dungeons. It would be like this to punish oneself.
Trade offs are fine as long as they actually trade off something. Btw @jaime4312 BO was already nerfed, as was Divine Protector. 2 skills which used to be staples for paladin tanking are far less used now ( I personally dont use them anymore). TW and more accurately temp health is the only real tool for surviving OPs have. GFs, dps or not have first and foremost their block - a separate layer of protection reducing 80% of incoming dmg, then KV, Iron Warrior (personally i like this one but its cast is slow).
Honestly I dislike arguing for buffs for 1 class by pointing out how overpowered another may be but damn its that obvious. Also keep in mind, as small as it is, PVP is actually a big part of the game because there you find many of the truly bis players. And in there a GF is godlike both in damage dealing and damage taking while a Paladin is, at best, just hard to kill.
If you already create a group for op player PvP, it is not a problem. But if you enter at random and the opposing group is strong, you will be miserable. It's impossible to get rid of the control effects, can not damage, and bonuses like stealing life do not work. Gwf -Tr- even cw can benefit from these bonuses and they survive without dying. I have been playing PvP and Dungeon for 3 years now. I do not know what paladins do in PvP.Moreover, the paladins were weakened in the dungeons. Lastly, I will add that in the past, those who are seeking nerf for the paladin in PvP days are now dying in the dungeons. It would be like this to punish oneself.
Well I can you what my pal does in pvp. He moves about in all his immortal glory, protecting his party if the party is smart enough to go mid with him, throws some hits around mostly doing no damage if the opposing party is premade. And finally what my pal really does in pvp is be the last man standing in the usual pug vs premade (since i almost nvr premade). Thats it, and because of that my pvp queues have gone from 2 per day to 1 per week and 1 per month.. soon to be extinct.
-armadenox??!! you are making unnecessary comments on those days, but now unfortunately you can not see the game makers in the late and I'm sorry because your island because you can not see errors in classes
Whilst I agree that some skill animations are too long and others could do with an adjustment, I do not agree with your feeling that the class is bad.
We have had to adjust to the changes and that has meant adjusting how we survive. The old paradigm of 'high recovery & HP, ignoring defence and dps' no longer works due to the removal of immortality from DP and BO. These days you need to build for high HP/95% DR in combat/high damage and crit for temp health generation.
Achieving this combination means you can easily mitigate a minimum of 86% of incoming damage & your very high temp health defends you from the other <14%. Funnily enough, this also resolves the OP threat generation issue.
It is true that pallies below 3k will now not be able to walk through high level content like they used to but then again low level GFs also have survivability problems in these areas.
Yes, Relentless Assault should be changed from a knockback & the pally community have asked on many occasions for it to be changed to a knock-down or aoe stun. We have also criticised the charge time for Blinding Light but whilst they are annoying, their current state does not break the class.
The pally is a more complicated class these days and you have to know what you're doing. I also disagree with the statement that it's slow & cumbersome, I find the pally to be a much more active fighter than the GF and unlike the GF its buffs improve as your gear improves.
Xael De Armadeon: DC Xane De Armadeon: CW Zen De Armadeon: OP Zohar De Armadeon: TR Chrion De Armadeon: SW Gosti Big Belly: GWF Barney McRustbucket: GF Lt. Thackeray: HR
I have previously shortened the skill animations for the paladins in this forum to be too long, the damage is minimal, and the abbreviation of skill animations is given in example in module 5 "T.R." The first "Q" skill for the class was applied to the "blow-blow" and "o.p." I have written that it should be done for the class. sample: D.C.> wisdom(1.main) = "Damage Dealt"(interesting..??!!) + Outhgoinghealing + cont.bonus + cont.res. bla bla bla O.P. >> ??? where? damage dealt G.F.> STR =DamageDealt ?? !!!+bla bla bla O.P. >> ??? !!! where? damage dealt O.P.>(1.main)constitution = max.hit point (lollll) + damage taken (lollllllll)
With the two support classes above, the paladin is simply compared and the paladin class is still struggling in the game with the missing design. 14% percent increase is not enough. I think that paladins should be added to the "damage dealt" as in other classes. damage taken. And the other team members are running in a position where the paladin remains in the real target. Other classes are still very outstanding features damage configurations are very good.and some idiots opposed me when I told them in my previous writings. but it seems that the designers have seen and accepted some facts, but not enough....
Comments
Paladin has either Leader or Defender for role. It stands to reason we wouldn't be top DPS. Our personal DPS is not THAT mediocre and we clearly have an impact on the efficiency of a team. Now if we could have a little more reactivity instead of this constant inertia I would be gratefull.
Aura of Wrath - Change it from diminishing HP -> Amount of dmg taken (similar too Galeb companion)
Aura of Restoration - Change the healing% -> DMG% but would need too be less then Wrath since it would be a solid% vs unstable%
I would like too see Banishment changed.
Banishment - immuneLongSTUN -> Circle of Light(another version of power) but unlike COP it would be for foes, basically a debuff when a foe steps inside the circle. radius instead of 30' -> 15'
Protection - Paladin gains more Threat generation while standing inside
Devotion - basically same effect as banishment and what protection have for circle of power for there allies.
Honestly I dislike arguing for buffs for 1 class by pointing out how overpowered another may be but damn its that obvious. Also keep in mind, as small as it is, PVP is actually a big part of the game because there you find many of the truly bis players. And in there a GF is godlike both in damage dealing and damage taking while a Paladin is, at best, just hard to kill.
Raising those capped at 12.5% to 15% and of course rewriting the useless ones;
Vengeance weapon damage scale with power the same as they are doing with weapon enchantments ( @rgutscheradev ),
Wrath changed to increased damage based on number of enemies within 50",
Radiance needs a huge buff as it does almost no damage and generates v. little threat,
Solitude to exclude companions & non-party players.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Restoration: seriously more incomming healing on an devOP? many Dev OP wish to have Restoration take the 'share healing part' of bond of virtue to free the encounter slot for something more active
Life: could it please not bypass Soulforged? like maybe make soulforged a priority over aura of life?
Aura of Valor should be switched with aura of wrath. Valor is clearly a tanking aura. Wrath wouldn't neceessarily be that usefull on an dev OP but it certainly wouldn't feel as useless as valor...
Lastly, I will add that in the past, those who are seeking nerf for the paladin in PvP days are now dying in the dungeons. It would be like this to punish oneself.
And finally what my pal really does in pvp is be the last man standing in the usual pug vs premade (since i almost nvr premade). Thats it, and because of that my pvp queues have gone from 2 per day to 1 per week and 1 per month.. soon to be extinct.
you are making unnecessary comments on those days, but now
unfortunately you can not see the game makers in the late and I'm sorry because your island because you can not see errors in classes
armadeonx Posts: 3,807Member Arc User
April 2017
@zeus#7254 & @sam115151
Whilst I agree that some skill animations are too long and others could do with an adjustment, I do not agree with your feeling that the class is bad.
We have had to adjust to the changes and that has meant adjusting how we survive. The old paradigm of 'high recovery & HP, ignoring defence and dps' no longer works due to the removal of immortality from DP and BO. These days you need to build for high HP/95% DR in combat/high damage and crit for temp health generation.
Achieving this combination means you can easily mitigate a minimum of 86% of incoming damage & your very high temp health defends you from the other <14%. Funnily enough, this also resolves the OP threat generation issue.
It is true that pallies below 3k will now not be able to walk through high level content like they used to but then again low level GFs also have survivability problems in these areas.
Yes, Relentless Assault should be changed from a knockback & the pally community have asked on many occasions for it to be changed to a knock-down or aoe stun. We have also criticised the charge time for Blinding Light but whilst they are annoying, their current state does not break the class.
The pally is a more complicated class these days and you have to know what you're doing. I also disagree with the statement that it's slow & cumbersome, I find the pally to be a much more active fighter than the GF and unlike the GF its buffs improve as your gear improves.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
sample:
D.C.> wisdom(1.main) = "Damage Dealt"(interesting..??!!) + Outhgoinghealing + cont.bonus + cont.res. bla bla bla
O.P. >> ??? where? damage dealt
G.F.> STR =DamageDealt ?? !!!+bla bla bla
O.P. >> ??? !!! where? damage dealt
O.P.>(1.main)constitution = max.hit point (lollll) + damage taken (lollllllll)
With the two support classes above, the paladin is simply compared and the paladin class is still struggling in the game with the missing design. 14% percent increase is not enough. I think that paladins should be added to the "damage dealt" as in other classes. damage taken. And the other team members are running in a position where the paladin remains in the real target. Other classes are still very outstanding features damage configurations are very good.and some idiots opposed me when I told them in my previous writings. but it seems that the designers have seen and accepted some facts, but not enough....