A Rank 5 Enchant in Master Spellplague chest --> Insult

vida44 · March 2017

Dear @mimicking#6533 ,

please note that I find this an insult and I'm sure most of the community also.

A rank 6 would at least refrain me from writing on the forum.
A Rank 7 would be an OK reward.
A rank 8 or a 9 is what would be appropriate for an END GAME dungeon.

beckylunatic · March 2017

Not the first mention of it I've seen. And I agree it's inappropriate. You get R5s as trash drops and in skirmish chests... the no-key chest, at that.

Enchant drops for Master SP should be on par with CN/FBI, not what I can pick up from stronghold HEs I can clear in a minute.

vida44 · March 2017

Exactly. It's especially sad when that is the ONLY reward in the chest. Besides the currency and seals and that one Flawless Saphire. Makes you wonder on what you spent your free time

lantern22 · March 2017

Wow, that is bad loot. Glad i haven't been rushing to unlock that dungeon

tomiotar · March 2017

That's from the extra chests that cost dragon keys that you need to pay with ZEN rigth?

darthpotater · March 2017

I consider an opal an insult also. Thats what I get most of the time. All the work in this game is trashed because of the rewards.

vida44 · March 2017

tomiotar said:
That's from the extra chests that cost dragon keys that you need to pay with ZEN rigth?

Yup

tomiotar · March 2017

darthpotater said:
I consider an opal an insult also. Thats what I get most of the time. All the work in this game is trashed because of the rewards.

Since 2 years already the devs change the game design to make it as unrewarding as possible to prevent the people to farm it and progress without charging zen. Since then every single mod and patch note was all about give nerf to the rewards until we reach this point where playing the end game dungeons make you loose resources instead of getting them.

reg1981 · March 2017

That is a terrible reward! I've not unlocked it, I'm still working mod 10 & 10.5. IMO the rewards from FBI and MSVA are good! Or have been so far. I put $40 in for dragon keys based on what I've seen in msva so far! What is the comparison in difficulty guys? Is MSP on par with FBI? If you can walk through the content, expect HAMSTER rewards! If it's challenging it needs to be rewarding!!

stevedudeman · March 2017

While we're on the subject of R5's, how about when they drop from dungeon mobs, everybody just gets one! That would be way better QoL rather than bothering us with Need/ Greed/ Pass option for an item that is not valuable...at all. It's not gonna break the RP market...The whole Need/ Greed/ Pass option should only be used for valuable items like the old days...

ontheleftcoast · March 2017

When you get down to it ALL the rewards in EVERY dungeon, skirmish, and whatever are an INSULT. Just look at the "rewards" for leveling after 70 -- skill books? Really?! That's because most of the rewards are behind their ridiculous excuse for RNG and combined with ultra-stingy loot tables. Between all my alts I've pulled more than a thousand rings from Underdark chests (Throne, Demo, etc.) and have one decent +4 ring to show for it in more than 6 months of effort. I've never pulled a single +5, not even a crummy one like Sieging or Charging Bull. Same for the countless epic dungeons I've cleared, basically all it's good for is salvage or ways to fill up bank space with novelty items. Actually GETTING something for clearing a dungeon? Haha.. yeah, as if. Like clearing Fangbreaker to get Elven Assault gear. Really? What a joke, something I can buy with seals -- and almost guaranteed to be WORSE than the armor anyone with the 3100 IL required to get into FBI is wearing, that's the reward for the hardest 5-man dungeon in the game. Thanks for next to nothing, guys! Sorry you got shafted in mSP, but that's apparently what the designers wanted. They seem to think that it will make you feel "hungry so you'll come back for more". Instead what it does is make you feel miserable, like you've mostly wasted your time. Why? Because they're worried about "farming" and they've also calculated there's a certain amount of people that will leave after they've "beaten" the game. So they throttle back the rewards to keep that from happening. They know there are also people who will leave in frustration if they don't get rewarded. But they look at their spreadsheets of how many people still play versus the number of abandoned accounts and determine how stingy rewards can be and that's what we get -- the least possible rewards that will keep us playing. And it works, to a point.

tripsofthrymr · March 2017

On my first run, I got a Brilliant Diamond. Sample size of one run so far, so all that means is it's possible to get something really nice.

I agree that the bottom of the loot table should make you say, "Dratt," not drive you to complain on the forum. An R5 shouldn't be in the loot table, even if your loot roll is a "1."

I will say, though, that I thoroughly enjoyed my first run of master Spellplague. It felt like the pre-module days, when the entire team worked together to defeat a dungeon rather than the key-smash runs that we have seen in many dungeons (partly due to dungeon mechanics, partly due to power escalation). Fix up the bottom of the loot table to make very run at least feel decently rewarding and you have a real winner.

P.S. - On a related note, there's not much reason to have "Priceless" Platinum Plates in the loot table of level 70 areas. They're worthless to an end-game toon and just create inventory cleansing issues (e.g. when they drop together with an R5 from a trash mob that I do want to pick up).

nitocris83 · March 2017

I highlighted this thread to the team and it's spurred some active conversations. I don't have any specific follow ups but just wanted to let you all know that Devs have seen this.

hugienwn · March 2017

That's great to hear, Julia -- thanks for letting us know!

I echo John's feedback: I ran my first Spellplague (Master) this afternoon, and the final chest rewards were very underwhelming. I got a Wicked Enchantment, Rank 5 in one chest, a Black Opal in the other (alongside the campaign currency and seals) -- no salvage, nothing else.

The dungeon boss mechanics were really fun, though, so I look forward to more runs after the rewards have been revisited!

earlgreybeard · March 2017

tomiotar said:
give nerf to the rewards until we reach this point where playing the end game dungeons make you loose resources instead of getting them.

yeh I can just see that.. you get a chance to lose 1 random item from your inventory for completion of any dungeon

perhaps they could give some sort nice new armor but only give half the AC stats..

ontheleftcoast · March 2017

A big part of the problem is nobody at Cryptic or PWE seems to understand how random numbers work. For example, they look at "1 in a 1000" drops rates across the average of all the players in the game. And it may be true that after a thousand runs one player gets that elusive ultra rare item. But they haven't dealt with the frustration of the nearly 37% of players that will still not have that item AFTER a thousand runs.

Yes, you read that right. The math behind random distribution tells us that, for a 0.1% chance, nearly 3 in 8 players will not get the top tier reward even after a thousand tries. Oh, sure, some players will have 2 or even more of them. But over a third of your players (and not just players but dedicated customers) trying their hardest to get that elusive prize, still won't have even one. And since it is random there is never going to be a guarantee, just a chance, that the drought will end. Here are the number of players that will have nothing to show for their effort for a 1 in a 1000 drop rate after various numbers of runs:

# Runs / No Reward (out of 1000 players)
---------------------------------
10 990
50 951
100 905
500 606
692 500
1000 367
2500 82
4602 10

So after 4602 runs there will still be 10 players out of a 1000 that still won't have the reward. Of course the "average" player will have 4.6 of them and there will be some lucky slobs with 8 or 10 of them to balance out those with none. But for the unlucky few it will be endless misery. How is that "balanced"? How is that rewarding hard work and effort? How is that fun? There has to be some other way to get those top tier prizes. The current system is a poorly designed joke and often an insult to boot.

ontheleftcoast · March 2017

Ugh.. why can't the editor show you WYSIWYG for comment formatting.. that table is totally messed up and I have no idea how to fix it.

jonkoca · March 2017

I'm amazingly underwhelmed by the master spellplague loot too. For example today, did 2 runs back to back with the holy crusaders, and got a couple of the traditional peridots, some purple salvage and yes ! The legendary rnk5 enchant.

Then I did a single cn run with an alliance/guild team and got a rnk8, 2 +4 rings, and some of the transmutes.

i.e.. a single 10 minute cn romp is a better deal than about an hour or so in the toughest dungeon in the game. Please, raise the loot bar in mSP. What's the point of investing developer time and creativity in a new dungeon and mechanics, if there is no incentive for players to run it..?

beckylunatic · March 2017

I guess the excitement is supposed to stem from it being the exclusive source of the new "Wicked" enchant... but that's not good enough, when any other worthwhile multi-stat enchant can be farmed at low or no cost. Especially the event exclusives, which are littered about like confetti.

Even Vicious enchants, I've ended up with more than a full stack of R4s.

micky1p00 · March 2017

ontheleftcoast#2086 said:

# Runs No Reward (out of 1000 players)
10 990
50 951
100 905
500 606
692 500
1000 367
2500 82
4602 10

jonkoca · March 2017

Sure but wicked enchants are only suitable for x number of builds. Should everyone else suffer endless disastrous drops because mSP is worthwhile farming only for a fraction of the playerbase..?

wizardlvl80 · March 2017

I ran msp yesterday and got really bad loot. But hey, it was a pleasure to do it. Amazing design, really enjoyable walktrough and awesome boss fights. I got rank 5 and seals, in 2nd one I got aquarmarine and seals. The loot was pathetic but at the end my party was really excited about how fun it was.

thefabricant · March 2017

The return on investment for running SP is currently worse than the return on investment for soloing elol.

eolee · March 2017

I had a r5 and an elven necklace.My best loot so far is a black opal, that i can farm with wanderer fortune while killing red caps in a lvl64 zone. Gratz.

spideymt · April 2017

No one from my guild will do MSP again cuzz this loot is so worse....can we get any answer from a dev if this loot gets better?

spideymt · April 2017

I see you know this artefact very well. Its totally worth to farm it

not

A Rank 5 Enchant in Master Spellplague chest --> Insult

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